BMT no more SOC?
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just curious, you guys are angry because u truely feel that it is good for the recruits and the nation, or are you just angry because you feel its unfair that you went through it, but the newer recruits are exempted, or you like to see their "faces" when they go through it?
if you are angry because you are worried for the nation's greater good, i've no comment. its cool
if you're just having a jealous rage, its kinda lame.
if you just like seeing their "faces" while they go through the low wall, you're pretty much perverted -
I think it's a little bit of both..... sure, I am pretty pissed off at the fact that I was made to suffer thru SOC, while these newbies don't have to..... surely most of you can understand that.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:just curious, you guys are angry because u truely feel that it is good for the recruits and the nation, or are you just angry because you feel its unfair that you went through it, but the newer recruits are exempted, or you like to see their "faces" when they go through it?
if you are angry because you are worried for the nation's greater good, i've no comment. its cool
if you're just having a jealous rage, its kinda lame.
if you just like seeing their "faces" while they go through the low wall, you're pretty much perverted
At the same time, though, I feel that the level of training in the SAF has hit a new low now that there's no more SOC. Come on, SOC training is a small taste of what soldiers are to expect out there in the jungle during wartime. Running and clearing obstacles in SBO attire just isn't the same as running a few rounds around a bitumen track.
While the level of training in the SAF should not have questionable safety standards, surely there must be minimum standard for our soldiers to be lethal and competent enough for war..... It just seems that this 'minimum standard' is dropping all the time.... at the expense of lethality and competency, I fear. -
come on la... there's no proof that they are scrapping SOC. why get yourself worked up over nothing?
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Why i think SOC is good for soldiers:
1. It teaches soldiers to clear obtacles and lets them practice the range of motions needed to clear said obstacels. Now, it is true that you won't see those obtacles outfield, but the things that SOC teaches (balance, gripping power, proper landing, rope climbing) is still valuable. Eg. in brunei, you will need to cross rivers using a log placed across the river .
2. It is a great workout! And imo, more realistic than 2.4. If your gonna scrap somehting, scrap 2.4.
3. coz i did it.
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Btw, is it true? The title says no more SOC in BMT ... so i guess they just move it to the combat units. Not much objections to that actually.
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Kinda miss the 'playground'...
I remember that time I was enjoying it so much that I didn't even wanna pass until my last chance...
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Always looked forward to SOC trainings and my swimmings back then... Because more lao jiao liao and they want you to pass, so also never tekan you too much... -
wat's the big deal? It just means SOC is taught at a later date..not like it's totally out of NS..
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You cannot always pander to the lowest common denominator.Scrapping SOC is just wrong.BMT is about basic military skills, and SOC is a obstacle course which may reflect common urban obstacles.In the event of disaster, some form of SOC awareness may save your life too.It's alright if a person is not physically able to do SOC, but it should never be scrapped from the curriculum based on some misguided notion that it's a waste of time and manpower, defence organisations were never meant to be profit-oriented, be it manpower wise or monetary wise.
Why the Army is increasingly run like a corporation with all the office politics is something that we laymen may never know... -
my PTP got SOC leh.Originally posted by Gordonator:are u sure it's BMT, not PTP? cos during PTP no SOC yet, maybe except demostrations. -
ya......no more SOC in my ICT
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Originally posted by devilnight69:ya......no more SOC in my ICT
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don't always trust everything u see. if the title says "No more NS" u also belive ah?Originally posted by lwflee:Btw, is it true? The title says no more SOC in BMT ... so i guess they just move it to the combat units. Not much objections to that actually.
btw i'll really be disappointed if there will be no more SOC in BMT. then like that what's the fun of BMT. so what's next? no moe field camp? 
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In today's Singapore, we are never short of protective parents who are extremely 'concern' of their boys' well being. If SOC in BMT is really scrapped, it is most likely due to MINDEF being pressured to do so after these mothers and fathers complain about their poor boys cut and bruises to their MPs.
While SAF may have taken measures to raise safety standards (which already pretty good IMO), it may not suffice as the physical standards of our recruits are getting bad to worse (probably kids of those same parents who stopped their boys from taking up sports for fear of injury and then complain to MP after son injure in BMT). So where do we go? Lower the entry level standard.
Eventually when these people get posted to units after the modified lame BMT, any complains from parents will be sporadic because there is not likely be large congregation of feeble recruits like BMTC. This is when the unit will do magic to shape this people up
Anyway, look at the taupok complain in ST forum, it is from a 'concerned' parent. I was taupoking regularly in my school days, both as culprit and victim. But who's complaining? Only these 'caring' parents. I hope someone can remind this particular taupok complainant that his son may be victim of the potentially fatal 'blanket party' in NS and she will not even get wind of it... -
Originally posted by Gordonator:
Mebbe next time no more BMT liao..go straight to units and trained..
don't always trust everything u see. if the title says "No more NS" u also belive ah?
btw i'll really be disappointed [b]if there will be no more SOC in BMT. then like that what's the fun of BMT. so what's next? no moe field camp? [/b]
Anyone can confirm really no SOC in BMT liao? -
Well said.There's a difference between safety-conscious and being a girlie man.Originally posted by Pablo:In today's Singapore, we are never short of protective parents who are extremely 'concern' of their boys' well being. If SOC in BMT is really scrapped, it is most likely due to MINDEF being pressured to do so after these mothers and fathers complain about their poor boys cut and bruises to their MPs.
While SAF may have taken measures to raise safety standards (which already pretty good IMO), it may not suffice as the physical standards of our recruits are getting bad to worse (probably kids of those same parents who stopped their boys from taking up sports for fear of injury and then complain to MP after son injure in BMT). So where do we go? Lower the entry level standard.
Eventually when these people get posted to units after the modified lame BMT, any complains from parents will be sporadic because there is not likely be large congregation of feeble recruits like BMTC. This is when the unit will do magic to shape this people up
Anyway, look at the taupok complain in ST forum, it is from a 'concerned' parent. I was taupoking regularly in my school days, both as culprit and victim. But who's complaining? Only these 'caring' parents. I hope someone can remind this particular taupok complainant that his son may be victim of the potentially fatal 'blanket party' in NS and she will not even get wind of it... -
I heard there is soc but no timing in bmt, u dun have to pass it in bmt but come unit hor hor, chiong arr Anyway BMT is now gonna be simplifed, all the cheem cheem stuff like SOC, xiong field camp gonna be done in unit
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BMT is where all raw civilians are moulded into the shape of a soldier (never mind they are forced to do the same thing together). I am sure that as long as the person concerned learns the basic tenets of being in the military, BMT would have achieved its intended purpose.
However, if I were to be in charge, I would certainly want these newbies to get at least a preview of what their future lies in the 2 years ahead of them, like SOC, days outfield, the politics, etc. There is no need to force them to become a well-versed soldier in just 2 months (is it 2 months now?).
In case you were wondering whether my bias is due to my undergoing an easier system, I POPed from BMTC school 2 in March 2004, and had to clear SOC and IPPT before I got my block leave in full. Even at my time (makes me sound old), an IPPT pass was optional to qualify to pass out. -
well lets not jump into conclusion aye ? Maybe its part of the SAF 3G restructuring.I don't really think the removing of SOC from BMT (if it was true) got to do with the incidents back in 2003. It might just more quicker that people who don't need to learn SOC or other essential skills like fieldcamps to just learn the rudimentary details of army and get posted to their respective vocations. The majority of us will still get posted back to combat vocations and we just train from then on.Like most of you ppl said that after BMT, those earmarked for commander school, be it SISPEC and OCS, they will spend 1 mth in tekong doing some leadership training to observe them closely ? They can still run SOC during this period right ? 1 mth ..2twice a wk, wk 4 will be the test..lagi xiongOriginally posted by pkchukiss:BMT is where all raw civilians are moulded into the shape of a soldier (never mind they are forced to do the same thing together). I am sure that as long as the person concerned learns the basic tenets of being in the military, BMT would have achieved its intended purpose.
However, if I were to be in charge, I would certainly want these newbies to get at least a preview of what their future lies in the 2 years ahead of them, like SOC, days outfield, the politics, etc. There is no need to force them to become a well-versed soldier in just 2 months (is it 2 months now?).
In case you were wondering whether my bias is due to my undergoing an easier system, I POPed from BMTC school 2 in March 2004, and had to clear SOC and IPPT before I got my block leave in full. Even at my time (makes me sound old), an IPPT pass was optional to qualify to pass out.
Just like Log PT and Bayonet fighting that were replaced with other forms of training. -
I still had to do bayonet fighting in my time (Feb - Jun 2002). I can still remember how special the pumping was like.Originally posted by one-niner:well lets not jump into conclusion aye ? Maybe its part of the SAF 3G restructuring.I don't really think the removing of SOC from BMT (if it was true) got to do with the incidents back in 2003. It might just more quicker that people who don't need to learn SOC or other essential skills like fieldcamps to just learn the rudimentary details of army and get posted to their respective vocations. The majority of us will still get posted back to combat vocations and we just train from then on.Like most of you ppl said that after BMT, those earmarked for commander school, be it SISPEC and OCS, they will spend 1 mth in tekong doing some leadership training to observe them closely ? They can still run SOC during this period right ? 1 mth ..2twice a wk, wk 4 will be the test..lagi xiong
Just like Log PT and Bayonet fighting that were replaced with other forms of training.
KILL! KILL! KILL! KILL! KILL!
Anyway, regardless of whatever rabbits the SAF may be pulling out of their magic hats, the bottom line is that I sure hope they know what they're doing (assuming that this news regarding SOC is true). Sure, SOC may cause injuries, but come on, what activity in the SAF doesn't?
You can still get heat stroke while doing IPPT. You can still break a few bones while doing unarmed combat. Heck, I literally got a concussion when one of my commanders whacked the back of my head with a pogo stick during UC. (It wasn't that serious, most people just lost respect for him after that.) Are we going to sacrifice all that as well?
The plain and simple truth is that BMT training is getting wimpier and wimpier. Admit it everyone, that's the truth. Just as I thought that the SAF has scratched the bottom of the barrel by implementing the 'maximum 20-push ups' rule in Tekong, they HAVE to punch through the base of the barrel with this. Sheesh.
Someone please tell me that this piece of news isn't true..... -
I got the news from someone who enlisted on 10 Jan 2005.I didnt say its 100% confirmed + chop.So just wanna ask if its true?
For your info,I did SOC during my BMT and I am from a combat vocation. -
Cannot no more SOC la...I also done that long before....I also suffered like hell before...so I can't let the new gen. escape this sufferings that I went throught....may they have a chance to suffer too!!!
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hmmm...i heard frm my fren who is currently in BMT....according to him, SOC WILL still be taught in bmt and timing WILL be taken...
anw...juz 2 sidetrack a little...any of u guys know whether its confirmed tt u haf to go thru e entire SISPEC course b4 gg OCS? -
now yes...no direct route to OCS from BMT...Originally posted by sword:hmmm...i heard frm my fren who is currently in BMT....according to him, SOC WILL still be taught in bmt and timing WILL be taken...
anw...juz 2 sidetrack a little...any of u guys know whether its confirmed tt u haf to go thru e entire SISPEC course b4 gg OCS?
spend 6 weeks in SISPEC i think -
i think that NSFs should either be men or specialists, and leave officer posts to regulars.
gets irritating seeing 30-40 yr old men cowering to stubborn 19yr old punks. -
Rubbish, SOC will be part of a recruit's life for some time to come, that is, unless you want to save all the training at unit and command school, which makes little sense, privates having to learn SOC?
I just POPed couple of months ago, and back then, we were still expected to run SOC, and try to do it in unit timing if we could... SOC is still in as far as I know, for it seems like I've been running the stupid thing so many times sinced I left BMT...