Uniforms
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actualli dont quite get wat u mean.. which new ones u refering to? not our no. 4 rite?Originally posted by Joshua1975:the new one look neat but the pockets really got no use at all. just go back to the cargo style pockets will do. nothing breaks, dun fix it. i mean was the use of those pocket if it cannot put stuff in it. stuff like magazine (SAR 21 bloated mag)
the works of scholar really evolve only in the office. -
digital camo...digital camo design would be cool......Originally posted by wuming78:since we are on the topic of uniforms...
i just read an article about new uniforms the US is introducing. apparently the design took into account the opinions of the actual ground troops, from the number and location of pockets, to the material.
so what modifications / improvements can be made to our current no. 4 so as to better provide for our soldiers during operations?
hmmmm....pockets on sleeves?...but then..the ranks put where?...collar?...hmm....the velcro sides?..instead of velcro use buttons?... -
must be my english again...Originally posted by wuming78:actualli dont quite get wat u mean.. which new ones u refering to? not our no. 4 rite?
the new no.4 now using is the one with the chest pockets flat (just like any other shirt) and it now in one straight line where the old one has the cargo style pocket and it is slanting up and out. -
There are a few "generations" of the current No. 4 uniform. The current ones have simple flat pockets - the older ones had bigger pockets - the type you find in cargo pants.
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SOF does have that practice.They also sew their names on their jockey caps.Originally posted by Gordonator:there was one time i saw a person who has name tag sewed on his no.4 pants (at the back)!
i'm not sure whether his unit require everyone to do it but i was quite shocked upon seeing it. -
back when SAF still issue under wear, soldier oso like to have name tag sew on
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You mean the pockets on the No.4 Pants are now flat?
How dumb is that?!?! And who is the one that instituted such a change? The cargo pants pocket is very useful. I have used it to put my Map, my compass, my Magazines during SBD and even my water bottle!
Arrgh... Why is the SAF seemingly populated by the incompetent and the stupid? -
Originally posted by Joshua1975:must be my english again...
the new no.4 now using is the one with the chest pockets flat (just like any other shirt) and it now in one straight line where the old one has the cargo style pocket and it is slanting up and out.Originally posted by bcoy:There are a few "generations" of the current No. 4 uniform. The current ones have simple flat pockets - the older ones had bigger pockets - the type you find in cargo pants.
ok.. from what i gather from the posts, the differences between the so-called "new" no. 4 and the "old" ones is the ORIENTATION of the pockets - not the existence of them. there are same number of pockets, and the pants are cargo pants then and now, but the difference is the old pants have pockets which are slanting, while the new ones have pockets which are straight.Originally posted by lwflee:You mean the pockets on the No.4 Pants are now flat?
How dumb is that?!?! And who is the one that instituted such a change? The cargo pants pocket is very useful. I have used it to put my Map, my compass, my Magazines during SBD and even my water bottle!
Arrgh... Why is the SAF seemingly populated by the incompetent and the stupid?
is that right?
what are the advantages of having slanting pockets btw?
and any other improvements that can be made on the current no. 4? -
Pockets on the Sleeves.
And i interpret Joshua 1975's post as meaning that the new pockets are sewn flat, instead of "slanting out". -
Just show us any pics between the old and the new uniforms ba!!!Originally posted by lwflee:Pockets on the Sleeves.
And i interpret Joshua 1975's post as meaning that the new pockets are sewn flat, instead of "slanting out". -
Yep - its the same number of pockets - the older pants had pleated side pockets, the newer ones have a simpler "flat" pockets design - slightly less volume.Originally posted by wuming78:ok.. from what i gather from the posts, the differences between the so-called "new" no. 4 and the "old" ones is the ORIENTATION of the pockets - not the existence of them. there are same number of pockets, and the pants are cargo pants then and now, but the difference is the old pants have pockets which are slanting, while the new ones have pockets which are straight.
is that right?
what are the advantages of having slanting pockets btw?
and any other improvements that can be made on the current no. 4?
Actually - I find that in the field - the shirt pockets are no use at all with the SBO covering them most of the time. -
yeah.. and with the new load bearing vest, the pockets are virtually covered.Originally posted by bcoy:Yep - its the same number of pockets - the older pants had pleated side pockets, the newer ones have a simpler "flat" pockets design - slightly less volume.
Actually - I find that in the field - the shirt pockets are no use at all with the SBO covering them most of the time.
so the pockets are only useful when not in ops. mabbe that was their purpose?
anyway part of the US uniform redesign was also to relocate the pockets, keeping in view their SBO. -
ya that guy i saw is a commando. but defiantely not a SOF.Originally posted by LazerLordz:SOF does have that practice.They also sew their names on their jockey caps.
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sorry but i can't stand soldiers who drag their boots!
okay back to the topic -
Me too! And i hate ppl who shine their boots more brighter than others!!!Originally posted by Hellraiza:sorry but i can't stand soldiers who drag their boots!
okay back to the topic
Drag boots will make the boots spoilt faster
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yah i agree abt the super shiny boots! knn everytime got muster parade my coy surely got one spoiler kiwi until like mirror, make the rest go back and kiwi...knn..spoil marketOriginally posted by gnoik:Me too! And i hate ppl who shine their boots more brighter than others!!!
Drag boots will make the boots spoilt faster -
i don't like people who drag their boots too. lack of discipline.
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Yes, I am a lao jiao who used to wear Temasek green. In fact I was in the last BMT batch to be issued it in 1982. The BMT intake after me got the original camo which had a rubber lining inside (meant to make it a bit waterproof) -- and was hot and itchy as hell -- not to mention the rubber degraded quickly -- it was like wearing a pair of rubber gloves without the powder inside.
My batch wore Temasek green and were permitted to exchange only Temasek green for the same (SAF was trying to use up inventory and our CSMs insisted if one had temasek green we all had temasek green) from BMT until we passed out from OCS. Man, were we jealous of the OCS batch behind us in camo -- looked so sloppy marching around in unstarched uniforms -- and lucky pricks didn't have all the work involved in maintaining them -- scholar batch somemore! Still the Encik's in those days tried to make some standards persist but it just didn't look right so they dropped any pretense after a while.
The Temasek green was no joke. Yes the pants and shirt scould stand up by themselves due to starch -- but just for parade uniforms -- you walked up and down stairs like a robot with no joints to prevent any creases prior to parade inspection -- of course once you drilled on the road/square for even 15 mins the perfect look was gone. Most had to book in early every Sunday afternoon/evening just to spray starch and iron uniforms as well as polish combat and leather drill boots with the metal studs in them -- in those days the rich ones could send extra uniforms (bought at Beach road, I think we were only issued with 6 sets of no 4, 2 had to be in the full pack at all times for standard exercise and turnout) to special laundry for starching -- some of those uncle/aunty shops in-camp would even do it.
You always maintained at least one drill set heavily starched (most people had two) cos the tekan for having a bad uniform was not worth the price of buying an extra one. Drilling in those uniforms with sweat running into the starch led to skin problems for many. On top of that all the formation insignia etc, were cloth/cardboard and pinned to the uniform with metal studs or pins either on the collar or the sleeves, plus the plastic name tag -- had to remove and clean them separately or keep buying new ones...bascially designed to limit your downtime to meaningless hours keeping your uniform to stand-by and drill standards. The field no 4 was only lightly starched or just well ironed at the start, by the time you put on your sbo or fbo and fell-in or loaded the 3-tonners it didn't matter. I do remember some unfortunate souls who ran out of clean uniforms in camp and were forced to wear parade no 4's into the field -- especially in weeks when weekends were burnt and no time to wash uniforms in-camp. Our recruit pay was $90 a month and our junior cadet pay was $110, maybe $150 as senior cadets.
I was probably the last SAFTI instructor to wear temasek green until I ROD'd (ORD now). In fact I wore it to my first ICT years later and my RSM almost fainted -- good thing i was the S2 so he could only complain to CO, hehe. I still have two sets of original temasek green in my "collection", along with my tin pot helmet, sbo and all other fbo items minus M16 of course. My webbing is also the original khaki cloth webbing and not the nylon webbing/pouches which were introduced around 1984. But I just had to trade in the old khaki fullpack for the nylon one which was much more waterproof and lighter when wet.
Looking at the pictures of us in temasek green makes me and my batch mates feel very old now, haha, but we were the batch that bridged the old ways and the new ways in terms of uniforms anyway -- well that, the introduction of the SAW, LAW, SAR80, and the change in SAF philosophy from being "rugged" to "people oriented" -- but those are other stories. -
Just imagine wearing the metal helmet for hours under the hot sun...
Btw, i think the sleeves of the old temasek green uniform comes with the 5 stars and crescent arranged vertically on a patch of red background right? -
Hi Unsung_Hero, nice of u to share yr story. I am wondering is it the same as the MP no 3 uniform? Can take some photos and show us?
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1967: DETAILING OF A BEGINNING
The SAF supplied its very own set of clothing to replace the old pattern drill uniforms used by the British on 1 September 1967. Made from “Temasek Green cotton drill”, the uniforms of 1967 only had 2 patched pockets for the shirt, and 3 pockets for the trousers, with the uniform always to be worn tucked in.
There were very minute details to observe. The dress specifications stated, for example, that “the first button on the shirt had to be 3.75 to 4 inches from the collar down”. The uniform material itself had to pass certain standards: the trouser thread had to be of a specific tensile strength, and the buttons were not supposed to soften or turn colour when in contact with water or heated to 80 degrees Celsius.
1979: TEMASEK GREEN II
The uniform was changed in November 1979. Retaining its name of “Temasek Green”, the uniform was a darker green and now had 4 instead of 2 pockets. In July 1981, the uniform was standardised to be both the No.3 and the No.4 dress. As a No. 3 dress, it was to be worn tucked into the trousers, and as a No. 4 dress, it was to be worn tucked out. -
1983: A DRESS REHEARSAL
The first camouflage dress was originally introduced in June 1983. However, there were immediate complaints on the poor colourfastness of the new uniforms. The SAF thus had to delay replacing the old “Temasek Green” uniforms with the new ones and instead conducted further studies on different materials to use for the uniform before selecting in 1985 a new material which was lighter in weight and had more air flow permeability.
In a few years, the SAF ran into another problem with the uniform: due to its low price, availability, durability and the “Rambo” image it portrayed, the uniform became fashionable and popular wear with outdoor campers, construction workers and youth alike. It was feared that the misuse of the uniform could tarnish the image of the SAF. Thus in 1988 the SAF warned that offenders wearing the uniform could be fined up to $400 or jailed up to three months under the Decorations and Uniforms Act of 1922. -
Ah yes, that's right I'd forgotten the colourfast problem. After literally two washes the camo colour would start fading away making the unifrom look grayer and grayer -- they were total crap between the colour problem and the rubber problem. It's not true that their release was delayed however, almost all SAF units had some soldiers were wearing camo from 1983 onwards although it was still common to see mixed uniforms...it's likely the original order was so massive they distributed them everywhere to get rid of the inventory fast. I remember the newer soft no-rubber ones coming out in late 84 or early 85, my CDO mates had them by then. Oh yah, the rubber lining was also meant to prevent mosquitos from biting through -- but those LCK comando mosquitos would still get through anyway.
Whoever did the ordering of that material was a huge cock-up.
That 1979 pic above accurately shows the uniform we had, but sure, I'll dig out those unforms and post some pics sometime...they're somewhere in storage. -
My elder brother had the old, 2 pocket Temasek green uniforms. He had to starch them, plus he had all these badges and formation signs to put on.
The 4 pocket Temasek green uniform were still worn by "enemy" units in the early 1990s'. My unit wore them everytime we played the bad guys.
Was there ever a different camo uniform used in the early 1980s'? Something like a stripped camo pattern uniform (Commandos?)? I've seen it once, plus in some photos. This was different from the US ERDL camo pattern used. On trials perhaps? -
yes there is but for a short time and only some unknown unit worn them and it resurface after ATEC OPFOR was form in 1996.Originally posted by bcoy:My elder brother had the old, 2 pocket Temasek green uniforms. He had to starch them, plus he had all these badges and formation signs to put on.
The 4 pocket Temasek green uniform were still worn by "enemy" units in the early 1990s'. My unit wore them everytime we played the bad guys.
Was there ever a different camo uniform used in the early 1980s'? Something like a stripped camo pattern uniform (Commandos?)? I've seen it once, plus in some photos. This was different from the US ERDL camo pattern used. On trials perhaps?
in the begining, OPFOR was wearing the Temasek Green (PL SGT and above get the 4 pockets and man get the 2 pockets)and somewhere between mid to end of 96 the TIGER STRIPE was used officially by than the rename AGGRESSOR COY.
after the 2nd batch of man, tiger stripe was never seen again and it was oso the end of full, normal intake of the a coy.