What makes a good officer?
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no, a 2LT will never salute a SWO, simply because only a commissioned officer should be saluted. an SWO being a non-commissioned officer, will not get saluted. he would in fact need to salute the 2LT. the rules are that simple.Originally posted by Joshua1975:it really contradict from the offr core. face it like an officer. dun fool yourself, will a 2LT salute a SWO?
"are considered officers, though not commissioned"
a member of offr mess doesn't make one a commissioned officer. SAF never admit that WOSE are officer even though WOSE do hold "officer appointment" in today SAF and it just due to lack of manpower as the main reason.
when the days where CO of SISPEC, SAFWOSE are held by an WOSE. maybe by than. but still will a 2LT salute a SWO?
nope, being a member of the mess does not make one a commissioned officer, but only OFFICERS can become members of the mess, commissioned or not. again, simple rule.
singapore is not the only country which practises having commissioned and non-commissioned officers. the roles of both are different, even though at certain levels, WOs may be empowered and thus asked to perform certain officer functions. hence to say that this system is a result of lack of manpower is not right. how would having such a system solve the manpower problem? -
wow. i did not make any personal attacks on you. why the vehement remarks?? when did i offend you?Originally posted by Joshua1975:even it is so urgent that he need to attend imm, it is still his own weapon.
what oaths did you cite or what type arm presentation ceremony you had during your BMT? i was wondering, did you take one in the 1st place?
ok. cleaning of personal weapon is just one of the many things that an officer may ask his subordinate to do for him. there will certainly be more. say, photocopying papers, preparing stationery that is required for planning, etc. so are we to expect the S3, who has to attend to these planning functions, to spend time on doing these nitty gritty things instead? no. the organisation did not pay him to do that. on the other hand, the organisation did pay his subordinates to assist him.
similarly, in the private sector, would we expect the CEO or the GM to do those stuff i mentioned? no.
and how many S3s, GMs, or CEOs are there in the organisation? and how many subordinates do they have under them each?
and does it mean that if the S3 is really tied down by planning or whatever other things the CO has asked him to do (tada!), he would leave his weapon, uncleaned, un-sent, because he HAS to clean and send it himself. so the whole battalion can sit around and wait instead of going off for a nites-out, because the armoury is not cleared? or should the S3's subordinate then do the cleaning and sending for him?
this is simply segregation of roles. i think it should be fairly easy to understand. every position in the organisation was created to serve certain functions so the organisation can run efficiently. do we want to, because of idealism and romanticism, abandon these? -
this thread really grew leaps and bounds within a day! i had to muster all my speed reading skills, and even that wasnt sufficient!
anyway, from my quick skim-through, it seems that some of us have very strong feelings against officers, esp. in terms of them delegating work.
i guess this is inevitable - power corrupts, we all hear. so it tends to get misused. so people start to make their subordinates do what they should not ask them to. but do remember - that is not to say superiors cannot make subordinates do ANYTHING! if that's the case, why the differentiation between superiors and subordinates? might as well all be equal. cheaper this way too.
i used to feel very awkward and even guilty to delegate jobs to subordinates too. i would try to help as much as i can. but i later realise
1. the subordinate may not want you to "help"! in fact they may think you are doubting their competencies, and you are being nosey!
2. its IMPOSSIBLE to have a hand in everything, while still performing your functions wrt your peers and bosses effectively.
so it boils down to - what to delegate? and i guess that is the crux.
but if the rage and vengeance is against the system (of defining and selecting superiors and subordinates), i guess there really can be nothing much gained out of this scholastic and academic discussion.
let's all keep calm and not reduce this so far rather well-argued thread into a flaming arena. -
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Let's refresh a bit... from you
my reply... had clearly say about your contradictions on warrant OFFICEROriginally posted by wuming78:an encik is an officer - a warrant OFFICER. another point to note: they are members of the officers' mess too. so, they are considered officers, though not commissioned.
and again you come with... on the point agreed that 2LT will not salute a SWO... is that not what i am trying to say in the above reply?Originally posted by Joshua1975:it really contradict from the offr core. face it like an officer. dun fool yourself, will a 2LT salute a SWO?
"are considered officers, though not commissioned"
a member of offr mess doesn't make one a commissioned officer. SAF never admit that WOSE are officer even though WOSE do hold "officer appointment" in today SAF and it just due to lack of manpower as the main reason.
when the days where CO of SISPEC, SAFWOSE are held by an WOSE. maybe by than. but still will a 2LT salute a SWO?
commissioned officer and warrant OFFICER are OFFICER vis-a-vis, it as good as saying an apple and a orange is the same, both are fruits. yes simple rule and i just dun know why you had to complicate it?Originally posted by wuming78:no, a 2LT will never salute a SWO, simply because only a commissioned officer should be saluted. an SWO being a non-commissioned officer, will not get saluted. he would in fact need to salute the 2LT. the rules are that simple.
nope, being a member of the mess does not make one a commissioned officer, but only OFFICERS can become members of the mess, commissioned or not. again, simple rule.
singapore is not the only country which practises having commissioned and non-commissioned officers. the roles of both are different, even though at certain levels, WOs may be empowered and thus asked to perform certain officer functions. hence to say that this system is a result of lack of manpower is not right. how would having such a system solve the manpower problem?
and as to your point that "lack of manpower is not right" ... refresh again... i mention lack of manpower as the main reason ie there are other reasons with it.
your ques on how would having such a system solve the manpower problem? and the answer will be... lets just say all PCs in SISPEC are LTA and when they ORD, where will they be going or i should say who will they be leading in the reserve? Do you know how many redundant LTA we have in the past in the reserve? if cutting down of redundant LTA in reserve does not solve ONE of the manpower problem, i dun know what else is. -
You raise very good points there..mine was just a hypothetical scenario.One thing I note is that WOs which are PCs generally do better work than buck young 2LTs out of OCS.Originally posted by Joshua1975:Okay..to be fair... which PC draw arm everyday like the man do? face it. draw arm in the early morning, PC where? still in bunk sleeping? want me to say it out? PC still get runner to draw arm for them and best still sign for them as well. well maybe PC can do the can not.
post ex... coy line... all guys... clean arms... S3?
have you had your 1st ex. or were you one who ask runner to clean your rifle? before the man can clean arm, they have store to clear.
wat operational culture is at work here? clean weapon half way, S3 call... assemble the rifle, bring it along to see S3. any problem? do the S3 call everytime after an ex? i dun think so.
"staff work takes precedence over the individual soldiering duties of a PC very often" than he is very ineffective as a PC all at all and it oni in the camp we are talking now, in field how? forget that.
Let just talk about after BN ex. which end on friday late afternoon.
back in camp,
for offr ~ CO might want a AAR right away but most of the time will be the next day.
~ OC want AAR form all PC right away.
~ PC never do AAR with the platoon.
for CSM, he want the coy store to be clean and return of which most are draw out by the platoons.
for PS, he want the platoon store to be clean and return to coy store.
for sect comd he want the sect store to be clean and report any damage or lost.
anyone in here ever saw a PC help in clearing store? I never.
PS get the whole platoon (take away runner) clean the store together. those need to wash and air dry will leave it in the sq to air. all man clean weapons together.
PS check weapon, clean and ready to send arm. after declare and send arm and still need to collect the dry store and send in store. all still in no.4, no one goes up bunk at all till all things need to be done are done.
so where is the PC all this time? well no AAR from CO till next day, OC AAR was short, he din do AAR with the platoon, just pass the weapon to the runner tell him to clean for him, he went back bunk, take a good bath, a short nap, change and ready to book out.
btw if S3 need to look for him, he must have super cockup somewhere during the ex. or a excuse to get away.
let just say CO want an AAR right away, he should pull through a few time, oil it well, send arm or safe lock than clean the arm at a later time or the next day draw arm and carry on cleaning.
Normally the PS is the overworked figure here, and I have to agree with you that the PC must take more responsibility and even assist his PS in post ex work. -
Originally posted by Joshua1975:
well, so how many LTAs were in the reserve in the past as compared the present reserves if u could relate to that.
Let's refresh a bit... from youcommissioned officer and warrant OFFICER are OFFICER vis-a-vis, it as good as saying an apple and a orange is the same, both are fruits. yes simple rule and i just dun know why you had to complicate it?
and as to your point that "lack of manpower is not right" ... refresh again... i mention lack of manpower as the [b]main reason ie there are other reasons with it.
your ques on how would having such a system solve the manpower problem? and the answer will be... lets just say all PCs in SISPEC are LTA and when they ORD, where will they be going or i should say who will they be leading in the reserve? Do you know how many redundant LTA we have in the past in the reserve? if cutting down of redundant LTA in reserve does not solve ONE of the manpower problem, i dun know what else is.[/b]
well, being overseas for 1.5 yrs, therefore i ain't really well informed abt the local news and their happenings. the reduction of NS from 2.5 to 2 yrs was implemented due to the projected less manpower needed in the future right ? (correct me if i am wrong). -
So, having more of LTAs might not be a bad thing..Something can be done to put them to good use.Originally posted by one-niner:well, so how many LTAs were in the reserve in the past as compared the present reserves if u could relate to that.
well, being overseas for 1.5 yrs, therefore i ain't really well informed abt the local news and their happenings. the reduction of NS from 2.5 to 2 yrs was implemented due to the projected less manpower needed in the future right ? (correct me if i am wrong). -
if the reply had make you feel offended, well that me. i dun hit around the bushes. if it mean something to you or it hit some point in you, than go think about it. i can do nothing about it. i am a SGT who many OC wish to have but dun like to talk with.Originally posted by wuming78:wow. i did not make any personal attacks on you. why the vehement remarks?? when did i offend you?
ok. cleaning of personal weapon is just one of the many things that an officer may ask his subordinate to do for him. there will certainly be more. say, photocopying papers, preparing stationery that is required for planning, etc. so are we to expect the S3, who has to attend to these planning functions, to spend time on doing these nitty gritty things instead? no. the organisation did not pay him to do that. on the other hand, the organisation did pay his subordinates to assist him.
similarly, in the private sector, would we expect the CEO or the GM to do those stuff i mentioned? no.
and how many S3s, GMs, or CEOs are there in the organisation? and how many subordinates do they have under them each?
and does it mean that if the S3 is really tied down by planning or whatever other things the CO has asked him to do (tada!), he would leave his weapon, uncleaned, un-sent, because he HAS to clean and send it himself. so the whole battalion can sit around and wait instead of going off for a nites-out, because the armoury is not cleared? or should the S3's subordinate then do the cleaning and sending for him?
this is simply segregation of roles. i think it should be fairly easy to understand. every position in the organisation was created to serve certain functions so the organisation can run efficiently. do we want to, because of idealism and romanticism, abandon these?
from your comparison, it totally out... and i mean way out. PC and not S3 we are talking here. next point you went out is we are talking about end of ex and not during an ex.
cleaning of own personal weapon. even so it during an ex or better still in a ops, i dun think you will like someone else to clean your weapon, will you when in a ops? if in a ops you will and ex will not, ie you dun take your training seriously enough.
i agreed on the organisation did pay his subordinates to "assist" him. him as in S3 not a PC in Coy line as he dun have that.
just to clear, "assist" in "work" not "personal favour"
get back to the point own "personal" weapon... can the S3 subordinates go in his place to the toilet for him, ie to say the ops SGT peed for his S3?
segregation of roles... platoon runner dun clean weapon for his PC as it is a personal weapon. PERSONAL. -
Eh relax guys.Don't get too personal alrite?
Us Specs see things from a different angle, and Officers see it from another angle.Perhaps we have things we can learn from each other.
Joshua1975 is right about S3's peeing analogy, but as is with everything, it cannot be applied 100% to the dot.But we have to agree that a PC should clean his own weapon.In one book I read about the operations of a armored division rolling into Baghdad, even the Brigade Commander, a COL, found his command vehicle being seperated due to mechanical failures up front in the column and there he was , expecting to perform staff roles, but having to fend off attacks with his service Beretta.
In time of OPS, weapons are your personal responsibility.That's all that matters.Your life depends on them, and although the SAF does not operate on a war footing in everyday matters, the idea has to be inculcated. -
well than we have to trace way back, way way back even b4 WOSE take over role as PC, OC in school such as SISPEC and BMTC. no one can give an answer or a number to this at all.Originally posted by one-niner:well, so how many LTAs were in the reserve in the past as compared the present reserves if u could relate to that.
well, being overseas for 1.5 yrs, therefore i ain't really well informed abt the local news and their happenings. the reduction of NS from 2.5 to 2 yrs was implemented due to the projected less manpower needed in the future right ? (correct me if i am wrong).
as to your 2 ques... from 2.5 to 2 years. i really dun know where to start.
cut cost, dragon babies, 3G army... the list just go on and in case you din know, SAF start off with just 2 years NS in the begining, we just move back to the time frame that all with all the news things in it. -
ermmm... SAF train some one to be a platoon leader to lead and not sit around... it a way to cut cost as well.Originally posted by LazerLordz:So, having more of LTAs might not be a bad thing..Something can be done to put them to good use.
that is why some changes is made and at the same time to the WOSE core, a kind of recognition is given to us to balance us inside out. it a win win situation for the SAF as a whole.
anyway, not many SWO like to be a OC in school. he rather be a DIV RSM. maybe to the younger generation of WOSE but the the older guys... none that i know of. -
You mean the younger WOSEs would look upon themselves more as trainers than appointment holders?As OCs rather than RSMs?Originally posted by Joshua1975:ermmm... SAF train some one to be a platoon leader to lead and not sit around... it a way to cut cost as well.
that is why some changes is made and at the same time to the WOSE core, a kind of recognition is given to us to balance us inside out. it a win win situation for the SAF as a whole.
anyway, not many SWO like to be a OC in school. he rather be a DIV RSM. maybe to the younger generation of WOSE but the the older guys... none that i know of. -
LOL... PC must take more responsibility... PC has his own and so do a PS and all the way down to each man.Originally posted by LazerLordz:You raise very good points there..mine was just a hypothetical scenario.One thing I note is that WOs which are PCs generally do better work than buck young 2LTs out of OCS.
Normally the PS is the overworked figure here, and I have to agree with you that the PC must take more responsibility and even assist his PS in post ex work.
as long he can take care of his own OFFICER stuff, i will pray and thank my god lor... i am there to help, to "assist" not take over his power but some how or rather YSL always think they are the paramount, better than the reg. Platoon SGT who has work his way up to what he is now. -
Just curious..are you a regular PS?Originally posted by Joshua1975:LOL... PC must take more responsibility... PC has his own and so do a PS and all the way down to each man.
as long he can take care of his own OFFICER stuff, i will pray and thank my god lor... i am there to help, to "assist" not take over his power but some how or rather YSL always think they are the paramount, better than the reg. Platoon SGT who has work his way up to what he is now.
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it out of point for this topic, anyway, nope... it more of a tour to them than to the older WOSE group. that is why the younger group will be more willing to become an OC or PW, in school as to the older group.Originally posted by LazerLordz:You mean the younger WOSEs would look upon themselves more as trainers than appointment holders?As OCs rather than RSMs?
to the older group, to a SWO, he will be thinking of being a DIV RSM in one of the DIV than to be a OC taking a Coy of age 18 to 20+ young chap going force march, assault etc etc...
SAF is flooded with WOSE now and it not a good thing... when come to ranking... LOL
last time a WO2 oni rank with 2 other in the same BDE and within a DIV say a max of 12 WO2.
now in school, how many WO2 we have? let count the ASTW for CSM course, 4 section, each section 1 WO2, WSM a WO2 as well add up to 5.
BSLC or ASLC, 1 Coy 4 Platoon, each PL 1 WO2, a CSM maybe a WO2 as well. so add up another 5 again.
oni take WO2 in account and for just 3 coy, ASTW, BSLC and ASLC we have 15 WO2.
LOL... used to be 1 for $10 and now 3 for $10... when the new rank structure for NCO change to specialist, we had oni 10 SWO, before the change no SWO, oni MWO and we had oni 7 if i remember correctly and now... i lost count how many SWO and MWO we have.
all i can say is that most of the older guys dun like the idea of becoming an OC in school. anyway SAF dun care, this group will be gone soon. -
I was.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Just curious..are you a regular PS? -
i take it as it was to me oni...Originally posted by wuming78:this thread really grew leaps and bounds within a day! i had to muster all my speed reading skills, and even that wasnt sufficient!
anyway, from my quick skim-through, it seems that some of us have very strong feelings against officers, esp. in terms of them delegating work.
i guess this is inevitable - power corrupts, we all hear. so it tends to get misused. so people start to make their subordinates do what they should not ask them to. but do remember - that is not to say superiors cannot make subordinates do ANYTHING! if that's the case, why the differentiation between superiors and subordinates? might as well all be equal. cheaper this way too.
i used to feel very awkward and even guilty to delegate jobs to subordinates too. i would try to help as much as i can. but i later realise
1. the subordinate may not want you to "help"! in fact they may think you are doubting their competencies, and you are being nosey!
2. its IMPOSSIBLE to have a hand in everything, while still performing your functions wrt your peers and bosses effectively.
so it boils down to - what to delegate? and i guess that is the crux.
but if the rage and vengeance is against the system (of defining and selecting superiors and subordinates), i guess there really can be nothing much gained out of this scholastic and academic discussion.
let's all keep calm and not reduce this so far rather well-argued thread into a flaming arena.
just to be clear, strong feeling of how the officer bring out himself in term of his "own" work and "team" work.
if it a job need to be done than it a job need to be done. he can, must, shall, have to get his subordinates to do "ANYTHING" but for sure not his own thing or it will be like what you had mention "power corrupts" in him.
and yes its IMPOSSIBLE to have a hand in everything but one can have eye and ears to everything.
ermmmm.... ain't this point pointless "might as well all be equal. cheaper this way too" even the red army, communist have such thing call rank.
i dun see how can one feel "awkward" when delegate jobs to man to complete with the higher command intend for the benefit for all as a whole? unless it for one own benefit.
if they think or may think you are doubting their competencies, and you are being nosey when you try to help, maybe it your way of approach to help, try change another way of help. help as in HELP and not BOSSY.
there is a diff in school and unit. school you can be bossy, as for unit, you can sit there and rot for all the man will care.
my point is clear, if an officer can not clean his own weapon, to me he is not a good officer or maybe you may like it that i put it as dun have a good character.
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Have you ever seen a PC knock it down when the OC knock the men down? My friend-a guards officer did...last time...
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Have you guys seen a whole company knock it down by a corporal?Originally posted by Marco_Simone:Have you ever seen a PC knock it down when the OC knock the men down? My friend-a guards officer did...last time...
Unarmed combat training lah. hahhaha
lightened up everyone. -
Hmm maybe u have met the officer described by many as the "Al - Mighty". well maybe the empowering of rank did get over their heads. Sometimes the PC's surbordinate commanders are guilty slacking off . My fren's PS was not exactly doing his job, very often failing to ensure the parade state of the men, often procrastinating maintaining his platoon stores till the last min before handing up or moving out for mission. Till the extent of that my fren had to step in ensuring the stores were ready with the help of his sect comds.Originally posted by Joshua1975:LOL... PC must take more responsibility... PC has his own and so do a PS and all the way down to each man.
as long he can take care of his own OFFICER stuff, i will pray and thank my god lor... i am there to help, to "assist" not take over his power but some how or rather YSL always think they are the paramount, better than the reg. Platoon SGT who has work his way up to what he is now.
I do agree with u on some points regarding the work and moral ethics of a YSL, especially rifle cleaning and attempting to cover all job areas. but sometimes the sect comds themselves are too not doing their job. You raise your points on officers , well frankly i have met my fair share of specialists whos actions and ethics are also rather questionable which i will not go on further. but if u want to know, feel free to PM me
But if u want to make your views heard,u should join this initiative started by my unit's RSM back in 2003 regarding the transformation of the WOSE crop. it was comissioned by HQ Infantry if i recalled. I do belive ur views and opinions will be widely appreciated there. -
IN MY EXPERIENCE ONLY 1 OUT OF 100 MAKE TO A REASONABLE GD OFFICER,,,REST ARE SAME AS MEN ATTITUDES EXCEPT THEY SPEAK BETTER,,MORE EDUCATED,,N A BAR AT SHOULDER THAT CARRY THEM..Y I SAY SO,,,COS IN IN-CAMP TRAINING,,IT TELLS ALL -
oh no... i had not met the officer but i had met 6 officers and 5 of them who think they can do the can not.Originally posted by one-niner:Hmm maybe u have met the officer described by many as the "Al - Mighty". well maybe the empowering of rank did get over their heads. Sometimes the PC's surbordinate commanders are guilty slacking off . My fren's PS was not exactly doing his job, very often failing to ensure the parade state of the men, often procrastinating maintaining his platoon stores till the last min before handing up or moving out for mission. Till the extent of that my fren had to step in ensuring the stores were ready with the help of his sect comds.
I do agree with u on some points regarding the work and moral ethics of a YSL, especially rifle cleaning and attempting to cover all job areas. but sometimes the sect comds themselves are too not doing their job. You raise your points on officers , well frankly i have met my fair share of specialists whos actions and ethics are also rather questionable which i will not go on further. but if u want to know, feel free to PM me
But if u want to make your views heard,u should join this initiative started by my unit's RSM back in 2003 regarding the transformation of the WOSE crop. it was comissioned by HQ Infantry if i recalled. I do belive ur views and opinions will be widely appreciated there.
agreed on on one perfect, even in the spec core, more so when they are the reg, and some who dun work till last min. as for NSF sect comd, well most are on par with the YSL. it who had taugh them what to do, how to carry themself and what kind of PS they have with them than to they do it out from the heart.
things had change, as for your fren's PS, if he is a NSF i dun expect much from him. even he is a reg of today SAF SGT, i dun expect much as well as he had not gone through the full sect comd tour. what had he seen and how many major ex had he done to let him have the experience as a PS. and as a PC, it is his job to overall supervise that his platoon get things done.
we dun have reg. platoon SGT like what I used to have where i can follow his good example and in turn make me a ok one.
if you like to talk about spec, than you can go to the other topic started by someone else. we can discuss it down there.
just on your point.
my view heard... LOL.... transformation of the WOSE crop... do you know when the new rank started? do you know how many internal (as in BN level up to BDE up to DIV) talk was carry out by commander together with his RSM to the core of NCO in BN, BDE and DIV back than? i was there.
On 1st July 1992, it was the implement of new rank structure to the NCOs and the change from NCOs to WOSEs. in 1994 most of the Jr NCOs in SAF were so down, low in morale that in that year itself, SAF faces the most out flow of Jr NCO (PL SGT) and some CSMs. follow in 1995, 1996, 1997.
This in turn had cause a gap in the reg group between Jr. WOSE and Sr WOSE group. PS who are to be CSM had leave the force. SAF face a time where they are more WOs and dun know what to do with them and lack of experience Jr WOSE in Coy line.
What a BN looks like in the 80s to the early 90s. from sect comd level maybe 3 to 5 regular. all PL SGT are regular and we have 14 reg PS, for BN HQ, OPS and INT SGT are regular, MT SGT regular, Chef(cook)SGT reg. 4 coy, 1 HQ. 5 CSMs. RQMS a regular, some CQ are regualr as well and 1 RSM.
so 3 to 5 reg. section command CPL or what know as 3SGT now.
14 reg. Platoon SGT or what maybe as 2SGT to 1 SGT
2 OPS and INT SGT who may be a 1SGT to a SSG.
MT SGT may be from 3SG to 1SG.
Chef a SSG to MSG
CSM a SSG or a MSG up to a WO2.
RQMS a SSG up to a WO2.
CQ a 3SGT.
RSM a WO2 up to a WO1.
well just in a BN the reg. WOSE group can add up to be around 30 pax which i dun think can find in any unit today.
What you had in 2003, ppl like me had that 10 over odd years back. As i had mention earlier, much had change as more so for the younger, newer group of WOSE corp. -
alright well u got experience and age on your side. Your experiences are difinitely greater than what i gone through, u might have even trained my brother and his frens when he enlisted in 7 BTS back in July 1996 for his BMT if you were still in 7 BTS.Originally posted by Joshua1975:oh no... i had not met the officer but i had met 6 officers and 5 of them who think they can do the can not.
agreed on on one perfect, even in the spec core, more so when they are the reg, and some who dun work till last min. as for NSF sect comd, well most are on par with the YSL. it who had taugh them what to do, how to carry themself and what kind of PS they have with them than to they do it out from the heart. things had change, we dun have reg. platoon SGT like what I used to have where i can follow his good example.
if you like to talk about spec, than you can go to the other topic started by someone else. we can discuss it down there.
my view heard... LOL.... transformation of the WOSE crop... do you know when the new rank started? do you know how many internal (as in BN level up to BDE up to DIV) talk was carry out by commander together with his RSM to the core of NCO in BN, BDE and DIV back than? i was there.
On 1st July 1992, it was the implement of new rank structure to the NCOs and the change from NCOs to WOSEs. in 1994 most of the Jr NCOs in SAF were so down, low in morale that in that year itself, SAF faces the most out flow of Jr NCO (PL SGT) and some CSMs. follow in 1995, 1996, 1997.
This in turn had cause a gap in the reg group between Jr. WOSE and Sr WOSE group. PS who are to be CSM had leave the force. SAF face a time where they are more WOs and dun know what to do with them and lack of experience Jr WOSE in Coy line.
What you had in 2003, ppl like me had that 10 over odd years back. As i had mention earlier, much had change as more so for the younger, newer group of WOSE corp.
I empthaise with u for the kinda of officers u have met and worked with. I know your going to cringe when i say this but during my time as a cadet, my PC was a Guards Officer who converted from a Specialist. Therefore he imparted his knowlege of being a specialist and how it will affect our command and command in terms of the Plt, Company and Bn.
He demanded alot from us as cadets as he knew how the specs will look upon the PC for command and the standard we would demand next time. during your tour, u might have met him in 3rd Guards as a PC back in 1998. He was posted back as an OC back in 2003 with 3rd Guards.
Well with regards to the transformation of the WOSE core, i do belive the current changes made to it will be of greater impact than ever , since all commanders have to attend SISPEC before embarking on to OCS.it should provide them with better understanding of specialist role, allowing them to excel in section leadership, before embarking for plt leadership training.