Too little private time
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Just like my post made 2 months earlier.....
some girl brought it up to Straits Times forum that her guy friends have very little time out side camp...
if you remembered, i kinda "complained" if SAF has a GOM on when can a soldier's private time be disturbed, etc...
well.... here i want to discuss again....
Should SAF have a guideline when soldiers can book out and what time they book it WITH reservation for any emergencies....
Well.... if SAF have guidelines on confinement as punishments (must book out by Sunday 10am if confined for Saturday) why can't they come out with guideline on our book out time???
Seriously, it's getting frustrating that our book in/out timings are unpredictable and that we are at our superiors mercy..
e.g. my unit is gonna have field camp on tuesday..... we need to book in at 1930 monday.... and monday's supposed to be our public holiday.
mind you... we are a mainland camped unit.
maybe SAF should come out with somethign like this...
Serviceman are to book out latest by 1pm on Saturdays, training is not to be scheduled beyond this time UNLESS approved by G3 Army. Such exceptional training are for example, where indents are pooled and limited (air task windows) or if the training is part of a core requirement of the course.
Serviceman's rations are to be indented if they book out at 1pm, otherwise they must book out by 10am latest.
Serviceman will book in on Sundays if monday is a training day. However, they are to book in no earlier than 2100 hours unless logistical situations require them to book in earlier (staggered book in to P. Tekong).
Serviceman shoud enjoy their entitled public holidays, as such... on public holidays where next day is a training day, they will book in no earlier than 2230 or no later than 0730 the next day. Unit are advised to schedule light training on the next day.
Well these are my "suggestions".... i don't think i am being unreasonable and i am being practical here....... don't flame me.
with such guidelines... wouldn't we be happier NSF personnel????? -
eh wait till u get pass bmt stage and into unit stage, u will find that ur gom is frankly unpractical....
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FYI, i have past BMT, lots of courses, AIT, ops phase and ord-ing in 4 months.....
it is not practical because people (up-there) simple think we are robots....
but if such measures exist... i am sure there will be better time management...and all of us would find NS a lesser chore.
would like to hear your side why's its not practical.. -
I was involved in NDP one year...burned 14 weekends. What to do?
No difference in Civil Service when you finish NS either. The Instruction Manual (IM) states, "...all of an officer's time belongs to the government, including after-office hours..." -
1 question.... r u in 3rd guards?Originally posted by Ponders:Just like my post made 2 months earlier.....
some girl brought it up to Straits Times forum that her guy friends have very little time out side camp...
if you remembered, i kinda "complained" if SAF has a GOM on when can a soldier's private time be disturbed, etc...
well.... here i want to discuss again....
Should SAF have a guideline when soldiers can book out and what time they book it WITH reservation for any emergencies....
Well.... if SAF have guidelines on confinement as punishments (must book out by Sunday 10am if confined for Saturday) why can't they come out with guideline on our book out time???
Seriously, it's getting frustrating that our book in/out timings are unpredictable and that we are at our superiors mercy..
e.g. my unit is gonna have field camp on tuesday..... we need to book in at 1930 monday.... and monday's supposed to be our public holiday.
mind you... we are a mainland camped unit.
maybe SAF should come out with somethign like this...
Serviceman are to book out latest by 1pm on Saturdays, training is not to be scheduled beyond this time UNLESS approved by G3 Army. Such exceptional training are for example, where indents are pooled and limited (air task windows) or if the training is part of a core requirement of the course.
Serviceman's rations are to be indented if they book out at 1pm, otherwise they must book out by 10am latest.
Serviceman will book in on Sundays if monday is a training day. However, they are to book in no earlier than 2100 hours unless logistical situations require them to book in earlier (staggered book in to P. Tekong).
Serviceman shoud enjoy their entitled public holidays, as such... on public holidays where next day is a training day, they will book in no earlier than 2230 or no later than 0730 the next day. Unit are advised to schedule light training on the next day.
Well these are my "suggestions".... i don't think i am being unreasonable and i am being practical here....... don't flame me.
with such guidelines... wouldn't we be happier NSF personnel?????
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where's your wifes !!?!?!?Originally posted by mr_sotong:1 question.... r u in 3rd guards? 
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just some questions on your suggestions. we need to be clear of the rationale, and to be able to find a balance between maintaining and achieving operational readiness in the already shorter span of NS, and satisfying servicemen's personal needs. do remember that when NSFs are asked to book in early, they are not the only ones "suffering" - their superiors (whether NSF or not) will also need to do that.Originally posted by Ponders:Should SAF have a guideline when soldiers can book out and what time they book it WITH reservation for any emergencies....
that is not going to help at all rite? how can one define emergency?
Well.... if SAF have guidelines on confinement as punishments (must book out by Sunday 10am if confined for Saturday) why can't they come out with guideline on our book out time???
i dont think the regulation lays down the time a confinee is to be released. the time is more dependent on other factors, such as rations.
Serviceman are to book out latest by 1pm on Saturdays, training is not to be scheduled beyond this time UNLESS approved by G3 Army. Such exceptional training are for example, where indents are pooled and limited (air task windows) or if the training is part of a core requirement of the course.
why 1 pm? is it plausible for all such trg to be submitted for G3's approval? what happens to commander's discretion? why are we trusting G3 more than the commander on the ground?
Serviceman's rations are to be indented if they book out at 1pm, otherwise they must book out by 10am latest.
why 10 am?
Serviceman will book in on Sundays if monday is a training day. However, they are to book in no earlier than 2100 hours unless logistical situations require them to book in earlier (staggered book in to P. Tekong).
why 2100 hrs? and isnt everyday a training day?
Serviceman shoud enjoy their entitled public holidays, as such... on public holidays where next day is a training day, they will book in no earlier than 2230 or no later than 0730 the next day. Unit are advised to schedule light training on the next day.
why 2230? anyway servicemen do njoy such holidays.
with such guidelines... wouldn't we be happier NSF personnel?????
and also consider the merits and demerits for detailing book out timing rite to the hour and minutes, vs. giving general guidelines and for the commander to exercise his / her own discretion.
anyway there is no need to answer my queries. they are just points to ponder.
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My previous unit is infamous for eating our time.Got once,there was a bunk inspection scheduled for 1800h.We waited until 1930h when we were told the inspection would be next day instead!
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Obviously the suggestions i posted are just that -- suggestions...Originally posted by wuming78:just some questions on your suggestions. we need to be clear of the rationale, and to be able to find a balance between maintaining and achieving operational readiness in the already shorter span of NS, and satisfying servicemen's personal needs. do remember that when NSFs are asked to book in early, they are not the only ones "suffering" - their superiors (whether NSF or not) will also need to do that.
and also consider the merits and demerits for detailing book out timing rite to the hour and minutes, vs. giving general guidelines and for the commander to exercise his / her own discretion.
anyway there is no need to answer my queries. they are just points to ponder.
Things like why 2230, or why 1pm... etc... are just my suggestions.... i mean if saf is gonna do something i am sure they will take a closer look. on why etc.
anyway.... why i thought of 1pm is.... since office hours (in dinosaur era) in CV life is till 1pm.
why G3 because.... i guess they are the most "independant" authority... if i say Unit S3 or CO's clearance... obviously they will clear what ever they need to so training can proceed. In the end, the GOMs have no meaning.
what defines emergencies? hmmm. i should put it.... "necessity".... e.g. last minute replacement of duty personnel, or real emergency (red button pressed kinda thing).
anyway... i am just putting this post up to discuss what people thing of the system we are in...
again, i'm not complaining... and neither should we easily accept the situation we are in which left uncheck they things "people up there" can do to us is limitless.
I mean, we should adopt the "lan lan suck thumb" attitude or "we belong to the army so stop whining"
rather, we should approach this practically...... "is there a REAL and Genuine need to book in so early"??
because many cases..... it goes like this.... "monday field camp, so sunday book in 1730 to prepare stores and briefing" ... usually the CDO will say this.
But what CDO don't know is.... some initiated PS on friday already preped all the stores. and the field camp conducting officer already briefed before book out.
In the end.... on Snday... they book in at 1730.... and spend the rest of the evening "everything in everything out" only to DO IT AGAIN just before no-move on monday.
So to all you thinking i am a whiner...... please avoid the thinking we are looking at things on the superficial side. -
With regards to your last few lines..its always the communication breakdowns and lack of common sense that screws/screwed up our book out time.Originally posted by Ponders:Obviously the suggestions i posted are just that -- suggestions...
Things like why 2230, or why 1pm... etc... are just my suggestions.... i mean if saf is gonna do something i am sure they will take a closer look. on why etc.
anyway.... why i thought of 1pm is.... since office hours (in dinosaur era) in CV life is till 1pm.
why G3 because.... i guess they are the most "independant" authority... if i say Unit S3 or CO's clearance... obviously they will clear what ever they need to so training can proceed. In the end, the GOMs have no meaning.
what defines emergencies? hmmm. i should put it.... "necessity".... e.g. last minute replacement of duty personnel, or real emergency (red button pressed kinda thing).
anyway... i am just putting this post up to discuss what people thing of the system we are in...
again, i'm not complaining... and neither should we easily accept the situation we are in which left uncheck they things "people up there" can do to us is limitless.
I mean, we should adopt the "lan lan suck thumb" attitude or "we belong to the army so stop whining"
rather, we should approach this practically...... "is there a REAL and Genuine need to book in so early"??
because many cases..... it goes like this.... "monday field camp, so sunday book in 1730 to prepare stores and briefing" ... usually the CDO will say this.
But what CDO don't know is.... some initiated PS on friday already preped all the stores. and the field camp conducting officer already briefed before book out.
In the end.... on Snday... they book in at 1730.... and spend the rest of the evening "everything in everything out" only to DO IT AGAIN just before no-move on monday.
So to all you thinking i am a whiner...... please avoid the thinking we are looking at things on the superficial side. -
i think whatever it is, in my opinion, 2 principles should remain:
1. book in and out timings should not be stipulated to the hour and mins.
2. book in and out timings should be at the commander's discretion.
of course, the commander and his subordinates will have various reasons for certain timings - and hopefully good reasons at that (although i agree that there are times when the timings are ridiculous for unknown and unclear reasons). to the trainees, who are at the receiving end, any book out timing is probably late, which is understandable. but do try to understand the rationale too. and of course, alot of times, its the trainees (or some of them) who influence these timings. -
Wake up your idea soldier . The army is becoming like NCC when I ord some yrs back. Stop the whining. There had been enough comforts in the army, Chalets-like accommo during BMT , not so tough training for BMT now, so much better combat rations, and cook house food, just the bed itself is a luxury. AND the reduced NSF time. And now you complaining about booking out/in timing..??
Tell you what ask the Minister of Defence to revert back to 30 mths NSF, then you will be able to book out earlier. Its give and take. Less 6 mths.. and you are not alone in the booking in/out issue. But you are already serving less time. -
eh ponders, what rank or role are you in NS?
coming back a few hours earlier to ensure that all stuffs have been prep. for exercise is necessary to have a smooth exercise
And if you really want to be so giam siap and look at these few hours... then i suggest that you don't take any unofficial offs granted by your superior.
give and take wat... -
just serve the two yrs and fark off stop complaining
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yes true. u complain aso no use so jus tolerate the 2 yrs...Originally posted by crazy monkey:just serve the two yrs and fark off stop complaining -
You guys have it easier these days.Even the BMT is slightly different from mine..and mine was in end 2002-early 2003.That says a lot on how BMT currently is.
They have to squeeze in the same amount of training in a shorter time, and actually, most training syllabuses have been slashed by G6.
Give and take, that's all I can say.Sometimes, miscommunication breaks down, sometimes the shit hits the fan and we get doused.But in the end, it's just a tough reality. -
Ok, it seems i can't get a productive discourse here... i guess i blame myself for bringing up issues that ever-so controversial and that i cannot drive the message across well.
My main intention was just to bring up the lack of "measures" in place that could lead to abuse which may lead to unpleasantness while serving NS liability.
Yes, i have sometimes little private time... but over the months, i have gotten used to it. But what i can't bear is the lack of justification why our time offs is cut short.
Such as the situation i brought up, early book in, only to wait in camp doing nothing. Or a breakdown in communication whic lead someone somewhere to believe we need to book in early.
Since most of the replies are hostile in nature (e.g. "just serve your 2 years and fark off") or accusatory... i guess there's no point i should carry on this topic further. -
this is common in any big organisation.. esp yours. everybody is just waiting to leave.. nobody will care about you. you will just have to make the best use of it with reporting sick, mc, etc etc etc...
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Haha.. yeah true, they r good at this. Never keep their promises..Originally posted by Marco_Simone:My previous unit is infamous for eating our time.Got once,there was a bunk inspection scheduled for 1800h.We waited until 1930h when we were told the inspection would be next day instead! -
IMO, chao keng such as take mc, take statuts, etc is another way to survive in army. Some of the nsf i notice come only once a week, si bei song...Originally posted by YI:this is common in any big organisation.. esp yours. everybody is just waiting to leave.. nobody will care about you. you will just have to make the best use of it with reporting sick, mc, etc etc etc...