Posting today loh!!!!
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duh...and I heard that the previous batch (Dec/Jan intake) were told by their OCs that the next batch (March intake) would be SISPEC->OCS ONLY..Originally posted by Rockhound:my OC said the whole new go sispec first then ocs system will be implemented next year...
that doesnt mean if u go to SISPEC its the end of the world...gotta stay positive....u wont lose out if u crossover too bcos from wat i heard from my PC and PS is that the syllabus in triservice and bslc are similar....
gotta stay positive.......
Anyway tri-service has been cut about 1 or 2 batches back I think (at least I can confirm the 59/05 DFST batch)..Whatever is similar (or lesser actually) is just ST1.. -
This system was in place during my Dad's army days, where officer cadets are selected from SAFINCOs trainees.Originally posted by Fortiscause:i think they have a new system now where by all have to go through bslc first before selecting the better deserving one to go through OCS. I heard that OCS cut syllabus lah that is why. ANyone can confirm this rumour. Too lazy to confirm this fact with my cc la. there is hope for everyone lar...if you seriously want to be an officer.... -
How old was ur dad and wat was his education level at that time?Originally posted by LazerLordz:This system was in place during my Dad's army days, where officer cadets are selected from SAFINCOs trainees.
coz I remember there were direct intakes into OCS for those A level people (since during the olden times, A levels are a big deal..haha) -
He was a civil engineering diploma holder.The Technical/Science people from Pre University and Poly were streamed into SCE then.Around 1976.Originally posted by CKtalon:How old was ur dad and wat was his education level at that time?
coz I remember there were direct intakes into OCS for those A level people (since during the olden times, A levels are a big deal..haha) -
Overall, i preferred SISpec to BMT so its not all bad news. If you want to bross over from SISpec to OCS, then well, good luck. Not many make it, and imo, the ones that get to cross over are largely the wankers. They are those that go "Guys, keep it up", "You can do it!" or "Good job guys!" in front of the instructors even though noone appreciates his encouragement (if it can be called that) and almost everyone else thinks he's a pretentious arse hole.
Since their main goal is to get into OCS, they are usually very careful about where they expend their energy; Thus, you seldom see them doing any real work unless an instructor is present.
Now you know how.
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there are such pretenders - we all know. but i do believe they are the minorities.Originally posted by lwflee:Overall, i preferred SISpec to BMT so its not all bad news. If you want to bross over from SISpec to OCS, then well, good luck. Not many make it, and imo, the ones that get to cross over are largely the wankers. They are those that go "Guys, keep it up", "You can do it!" or "Good job guys!" in front of the instructors even though noone appreciates his encouragement (if it can be called that) and almost everyone else thinks he's a pretentious arse hole.
Since their main goal is to get into OCS, they are usually very careful about where they expend their energy; Thus, you seldom see them doing any real work unless an instructor is present.
Now you know how.
there are many different ways of displaying one's leadership. some choose to be explicit and forthcoming. others choose to be there to support quietly, ensuring things get done, motivating peers just by doing and not saying. nothing wrong with either. and we shouldn't dismiss either as being crass and loud and pretentious or senile and meek, just because it seems to go against our own ways of doing things. -
Well, in my estimation, no one was motivated by his rants. He certainly did not make me walk any faster. He also did not rate highly among my platoon mates. We were motivated by quiet encouragement, by the guy in front and the guy behind who nudged you every now and then to keep you on your toes. We were certainly not motivated by a loud mouthed wannabe who is more mouth than action.Originally posted by wuming78:there are such pretenders - we all know. but i do believe they are the minorities.
there are many different ways of displaying one's leadership. some choose to be explicit and forthcoming. others choose to be there to support quietly, ensuring things get done, motivating peers just by doing and not saying. nothing wrong with either. and we shouldn't dismiss either as being crass and loud and pretentious or senile and meek, just because it seems to go against our own ways of doing things.
The problem lies with the selection system. It serves to select wayang kings for the most part. For instance the person who was selected as "Coy Best" during my stint at SISPEC was certainly not the most industrious and physically fit individual. He was just the most desperate to get into OCS. For me at least, i know that i can't have kept up pretences for so long. He could. There was no test of planning ability. Neither was there any test of industriousness. Thus, imo, officers largely fall into 2 categories. The wayang kings. And the truly exceptional that manage to shine through. Sadly, the truly exceptional is in the minority.
I know you are an officer. You may not like what i say, but that is my observation. Anyway, i was just trying to give officer wannabes some insight into what it takes to be an officer. -
No offences for the things that I going to say ok!?
Rmb 2 years ago during BMT, there was one from my platoon who was from RJC. His fitness cant make it, and up to POP that day, he cant pass his IPPT. But as he was a A level student and he got all A and distinctions for his "S" paper, the sgt closed one eye and passed his IPPT.
He was posted to OCS eventually. But a lot of pple say tis is due to his A level results. So unfair rite? Frankly speaking, i tink there is something wrong with this system. Imagine another who got very poor results but can lead people and pass IPPT, but couldn't get into OCS!
He was OOC after 2 weeks and we were like, laughing at him. Basically wayang kings SHOULD be able to get into OCS. -
i think you meant SHOULDNT?Originally posted by gnoik:No offences for the things that I going to say ok!?
Rmb 2 years ago during BMT, there was one from my platoon who was from RJC. His fitness cant make it, and up to POP that day, he cant pass his IPPT. But as he was a A level student and he got all A and distinctions for his "S" paper, the sgt closed one eye and passed his IPPT.
He was posted to OCS eventually. But a lot of pple say tis is due to his A level results. So unfair rite? Frankly speaking, i tink there is something wrong with this system. Imagine another who got very poor results but can lead people and pass IPPT, but couldn't get into OCS!
He was OOC after 2 weeks and we were like, laughing at him. Basically wayang kings SHOULD be able to get into OCS.
i totally agree with you on this point.
however there are some legacy issues in play here with regard to our policies. and not only this particular selection policy, but many others.
there is truth in the policy, to a certain extent. herein lies the difference between potential and performance. and this guy was chosen, along with all the others like him that passed the criteria of this policy, because they were deemed to be likely to have more potential.
well. of course. exceptions do exist, and in the form of this person.
i think to strike a balance in this is important. people shouldnt be chosen for advanced schools based solely on their academic merits. this balance is delicate and fine, and hard to find. hence the persons exercising this policy could just use the blanket method.
it takes more time for our policies to mature i guess. and the people along with it. -
i wont take offense with what you have said. there has been much worse and totally unreasonable criticisms here!Originally posted by lwflee:Well, in my estimation, no one was motivated by his rants. He certainly did not make me walk any faster. He also did not rate highly among my platoon mates. We were motivated by quiet encouragement, by the guy in front and the guy behind who nudged you every now and then to keep you on your toes. We were certainly not motivated by a loud mouthed wannabe who is more mouth than action.
The problem lies with the selection system. It serves to select wayang kings for the most part. For instance the person who was selected as "Coy Best" during my stint at SISPEC was certainly not the most industrious and physically fit individual. He was just the most desperate to get into OCS. For me at least, i know that i can't have kept up pretences for so long. He could. There was no test of planning ability. Neither was there any test of industriousness. Thus, imo, officers largely fall into 2 categories. The wayang kings. And the truly exceptional that manage to shine through. Sadly, the truly exceptional is in the minority.
I know you are an officer. You may not like what i say, but that is my observation. Anyway, i was just trying to give officer wannabes some insight into what it takes to be an officer.
anyway there are also the "loud" leaders who are well-liked and effective. it all depends on the person.
your observation that the selection tends to favour more outspoken and prominent characters has truth in it. it is quite inevitable too, especially when the selecting body only has a short time to make decisions. if the quiet ones are able to shine through by the outcomes they bring about in the short time, im sure they will get through the selection. otherwise, amongst the rest and the outspoken ones, the selectors would probably think: at least the loud ones bother and cared enough to even do that, while the rest didnt rite? of course, it means some people who are even more soft spoken and likes to perform behind the curtains roles become sidelined. but think about it: officers are required to be outspoken to a certain extent, rite? we cant really expect our officers to be all meek and shy and prefer to be in the dark?
you feel that most officers do not deserve to be where they are, and they got there just by being wayang. perhaps this is because of your short ns stint and hence limited exposure to the organisation as a whole. of course this is your opinion. i wont try to change it nor defend the corp. it will be much better if one day you can be convinced to change your mind yourself.
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Oops typo error! Anyway wuming ge, dun be angry lor! Just my opinion only~Originally posted by wuming78:i think you meant SHOULDNT?
i totally agree with you on this point.
however there are some legacy issues in play here with regard to our policies. and not only this particular selection policy, but many others.
there is truth in the policy, to a certain extent. herein lies the difference between potential and performance. and this guy was chosen, along with all the others like him that passed the criteria of this policy, because they were deemed to be likely to have more potential.
well. of course. exceptions do exist, and in the form of this person.
i think to strike a balance in this is important. people shouldnt be chosen for advanced schools based solely on their academic merits. this balance is delicate and fine, and hard to find. hence the persons exercising this policy could just use the blanket method.
it takes more time for our policies to mature i guess. and the people along with it. -
my cohort SOH was a SISPEC cross over from BSLC, 2nd Sword (2nd in Cohort) was a SISPEC instructor crossover( he don't noe till the day he commission why he was still arrowed to go OCS despite being a instructor at SISPEC for 1 batch )Originally posted by lwflee:Overall, i preferred SISpec to BMT so its not all bad news. If you want to bross over from SISpec to OCS, then well, good luck. Not many make it, and imo, the ones that get to cross over are largely the wankers. They are those that go "Guys, keep it up", "You can do it!" or "Good job guys!" in front of the instructors even though noone appreciates his encouragement (if it can be called that) and almost everyone else thinks he's a pretentious arse hole.
Since their main goal is to get into OCS, they are usually very careful about where they expend their energy; Thus, you seldom see them doing any real work unless an instructor is present.
Now you know how.
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I signed Air Force but got SISPEC. Anyone in the same predicament as me?
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Hehe, i had a friend who crossed over to OCS after being a Guards PS.He also hated being arrowed to commission.Looking after his guys and teaching them was a more satisfying job.Originally posted by one-niner:my cohort SOH was a SISPEC cross over from BSLC, 2nd Sword (2nd in Cohort) was a SISPEC instructor crossover( he don't noe till the day he commission why he was still arrowed to go OCS despite being a instructor at SISPEC for 1 batch ) -
You (if you happen to be an officer) may not like reading this but most OCS cadets are wayang kings.
Be it crossovers from SISPEC or direct from BMT. True enough, there are capable and fit ones, scholars, whitehorses etc. But the rest will just wayang their way through to get into OCS. For the big majority (myself included), we are not that thick skinned to wayang in front of instructors and being hypocrites to fellow trainees (you know what I mean)... that's why most of us ended up in SISPEC or elsewhere. I have been through the system and I have seen it all... sadly, those who crossover to OCS during my time in SISPEC were the biggest wayangs that my company and myself had seen. Those who went straight from BMT were fit, but that's about it.
Well, they may have changed the system but selection will always be flawed.
True, many who made it to OCS would like to believe that they are one of the best and capable ones... OK fair enough. But the truth is that, not ALL belong to that category of being the best and capable ones. If he is capable, I will gladly salute him. But sadly, I haven't met one that deserve the respect yet.
But hey, those wayang kings did put in effort to "show" that they deserve the OCS posting... so hmmm... that alone requires some effort.. LOL. Deep down inside, those who have served will know who are the tough guys that run the army and get the men going when morale is low. Specs are not called the backbone of the army for nothing.
So for those aspiring officers wannabes reading this, you should know what to do. It does help if you have thick skin, physical fitness and wayang skills. You will certainly be an officer if you can strike a balance between being friendly to your instructors but yet well liked by your fellow trainees at the same time. Think PR and EQ.
This is no officer bashing post... I am sure many of the forummers would agree with me.
CHeers! -
Dun say like that lah bro... my bmt friends considered very "up" thats why they go ocs... maybe those wayang just stands a small portion only...Originally posted by echelon:You (if you happen to be an officer) may not like reading this but most OCS cadets are wayang kings.
Be it crossovers from SISPEC or direct from BMT. True enough, there are capable and fit ones, scholars, whitehorses etc. But the rest will just wayang their way through to get into OCS. For the big majority (myself included), we are not that thick skinned to wayang in front of instructors and being hypocrites to fellow trainees (you know what I mean)... that's why most of us ended up in SISPEC or elsewhere.
True, many who made it to OCS would like to believe that they are one of the best and capable ones... OK fair enough. But the truth is that, not ALL belong to that category of being the best and capable ones. If he is capable, I will gladly salute him. But sadly, I haven't met one that deserve the respect yet.
But hey, those wayang kings did put in effort to "show" that they deserve the OCS posting... so hmmm... that alone requires some effort.. LOL. Deep down inside, those who have served will know who are the tough guys that run the army and get the men going when morale is low. Specs are not called the backbone of the army for nothing.
This is no officer bashing post... I am sure many of the forummers would agree with me.
CHeers! -
What do you mean by "up"? Fitness superiority or well liked by instructors? I forgot to add that those who were very "gam" or "arr ka chiu ji" (friendly) with instructors ended up in OCS too. Maybe those kind of people have the PR / EQ skills to bring them to a level above the norm.Originally posted by KrU:Dun say like that lah bro... my bmt friends considered very "up" thats why they go ocs... maybe those wayang just stands a small portion only...
I am not despising them or whatsoever... sometimes I wish I had that x-factor or charisma myself too. Makes things a lot easier.
Cheers! -
hm.. i wonder what would you have said if you actually made it to OCS.Originally posted by echelon:You (if you happen to be an officer) may not like reading this but most OCS cadets are wayang kings.
Be it crossovers from SISPEC or direct from BMT. True enough, there are capable and fit ones, scholars, whitehorses etc. But the rest will just wayang their way through to get into OCS. For the big majority (myself included), we are not that thick skinned to wayang in front of instructors and being hypocrites to fellow trainees (you know what I mean)... that's why most of us ended up in SISPEC or elsewhere. I have been through the system and I have seen it all... sadly, those who crossover to OCS during my time in SISPEC were the biggest wayangs that my company and myself had seen. Those who went straight from BMT were fit, but that's about it.
Well, they may have changed the system but selection will always be flawed.
True, many who made it to OCS would like to believe that they are one of the best and capable ones... OK fair enough. But the truth is that, not ALL belong to that category of being the best and capable ones. If he is capable, I will gladly salute him. But sadly, I haven't met one that deserve the respect yet.
But hey, those wayang kings did put in effort to "show" that they deserve the OCS posting... so hmmm... that alone requires some effort.. LOL. Deep down inside, those who have served will know who are the tough guys that run the army and get the men going when morale is low. Specs are not called the backbone of the army for nothing.
So for those aspiring officers wannabes reading this, you should know what to do. It does help if you have thick skin, physical fitness and wayang skills. You will certainly be an officer if you can strike a balance between being friendly to your instructors but yet well liked by your fellow trainees at the same time. Think PR and EQ.
This is no officer bashing post... I am sure many of the forummers would agree with me.
CHeers! -
LOL. Some of you may think I am a sourgrape. But let me just set the record straight. I was offered twice at SISPEC to go to OCS. When interviewed, I said, "Sir, no thank you. I don't want the extra 10 years of reservist." My PCs were stunned to hear that coming from me as they have the impression that I am a good soldier and I put in my very best during training. I know I belonged to the top 5%. But nonetheless, they respected my decision after I also clarified that I would like to be closer to the men rather than serving in an "armchair command" role. Though getting a 2LT or LTA rank is no big deal as they wouldn't really have a "armchair command" role (unless in BMT), I feel that getting bonded to the men would be more suitable for me (as a spec) as they (the men) are the main fighting force that the Bn will depend on in a war.Originally posted by wuming78:hm.. i wonder what would you have said if you actually made it to OCS.
But I am upset as those who eventually crossover to OCS from my SISPEC coy were the wayang kings, and not those whom most of my peers felt were more deserving.
True to a certain extent, you get a bit more pride and monthly allowance when you served as an officer. But during reservists, hehehe... you NSmen know who will end up suffering! Muacks I love Singapore! But I don't want the extra burden coupled with stress in my civilian job!
Cheers! -
the army is never fair ... the wanna make it earn itOriginally posted by outlaw525:Huh ? How does it make sense for me to go to sispec ? Some ppl signed on and got ocs. Even those who are not among the top. -
I agree that i have seen wayang people cross over but not all ...
Thats why i have taken much effort to help those who are gd crossover from sispec during my time there ...Originally posted by echelon:You (if you happen to be an officer) may not like reading this but most OCS cadets are wayang kings.
Be it crossovers from SISPEC or direct from BMT. True enough, there are capable and fit ones, scholars, whitehorses etc. But the rest will just wayang their way through to get into OCS. For the big majority (myself included), we are not that thick skinned to wayang in front of instructors and being hypocrites to fellow trainees (you know what I mean)... that's why most of us ended up in SISPEC or elsewhere. I have been through the system and I have seen it all... sadly, those who crossover to OCS during my time in SISPEC were the biggest wayangs that my company and myself had seen. Those who went straight from BMT were fit, but that's about it.
Well, they may have changed the system but selection will always be flawed.
True, many who made it to OCS would like to believe that they are one of the best and capable ones... OK fair enough. But the truth is that, not ALL belong to that category of being the best and capable ones. If he is capable, I will gladly salute him. But sadly, I haven't met one that deserve the respect yet.
But hey, those wayang kings did put in effort to "show" that they deserve the OCS posting... so hmmm... that alone requires some effort.. LOL. Deep down inside, those who have served will know who are the tough guys that run the army and get the men going when morale is low. Specs are not called the backbone of the army for nothing.
So for those aspiring officers wannabes reading this, you should know what to do. It does help if you have thick skin, physical fitness and wayang skills. You will certainly be an officer if you can strike a balance between being friendly to your instructors but yet well liked by your fellow trainees at the same time. Think PR and EQ.
This is no officer bashing post... I am sure many of the forummers would agree with me.
CHeers! -
proud to have specs like u man ... i was given chance to cross over and go interview .. but never make it .. wasnt gd enuff .. better people crossed .. so there are gd people who are crossing overOriginally posted by echelon:LOL. Some of you may think I am a sourgrape. But let me just set the record straight. I was offered twice at SISPEC to go to OCS. When interviewed, I said, "Sir, no thank you. I don't want the extra 10 years of reservist." My PCs were stunned to hear that coming from me as they have the impression that I am a good soldier and I put in my very best during training. I know I belonged to the top 5%. But nonetheless, they respected my decision after I also clarified that I would like to be closer to the men rather than serving in an "armchair command" role. Though getting a 2LT or LTA rank is no big deal as they wouldn't really have a "armchair command" role (unless in BMT), I feel that getting bonded to the men would be more suitable for me (as a spec) as they (the men) are the main fighting force that the Bn will depend on in a war.
But I am upset as those who eventually crossover to OCS from my SISPEC coy were the wayang kings, and not those whom most of my peers felt were more deserving.
True to a certain extent, you get a bit more pride and monthly allowance when you served as an officer. But during reservists, hehehe... you NSmen know who will end up suffering! Muacks I love Singapore! But I don't want the extra burden coupled with stress in my civilian job!
Cheers!