SAF needs to adapt new unarmed combat techniques!
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Tot guards unit and gurkha contingents are learning it..Originally posted by duotiga83:akido is gd...but needs longer time to train up..... -
From the sound of it, UC's turned into ballet. When I did it, they taught us all the stylised moves, but when the referee said "Fight", it became like a street brawl with the only objective being to take your opponent down by any means necessary.
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I thought we already mentioned about the SAF unarmed combat many times before in this forum.Why repeated it again?Anyway, if u ask for jiu jitsu/judo or aikido, they are all the ground fights or throws that u all have learnt in ICCT(intermediate close combat) or ACCT (Advance close combat). It is just that they are the simplified ones to make it easier for the men to master. For TKD, u only learn it during BCCT in bmt.But also, it is v simple ones that is about white to yellow belt level only. The skill level of TKD in singapore is not very high too.It is more like a sport(Olympic TKD) than martial arts compare to TKD in korea.SAF dont realli have the time to train the men into gongfu masters.Like I sae before, the main objective of SAF unarmed combat is that the men are able to fight back bare handed instead of kanna whacked, but not definitely will win. U all argued about the kinda martial arts suitable for SAF is pointless. Cos NSF in the units do not have the enough time to master them well. SAF dont treat unarmed combat seriously also.
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jitsu/judo/aikido is very different from the current ICCT or ACCT..Originally posted by Tango12:I thought we already mentioned about the SAF unarmed combat many times before in this forum.Why repeated it again?Anyway, if u ask for jiu jitsu/judo or aikido, they are all the ground fights or throws that u all have learnt in ICCT(intermediate close combat) or ACCT (Advance close combat). It is just that they are the simplified ones to make it easier for the men to master.
wats make u think its the same?
they all look the same..in reality they are very deadly..
jiu jitsu = grapple or submission(not ICCT kind of submission..u dun really want to be the kena hold)
Judo = throw, slam, submission
Aikido(passive) = Locks, submission,throw(u dun even need brute force to lock or throw your opponent)
but still gotta agree wif u..wif all the above arts mention up there..the NSFs have not time to master..its only 2 years NS... -
I know cos i got friends who are UCIs.They told me that their boss is ju jitsu trained and is one of the examiners for the jiu jitsu in spore. Like wat i sae, they modified it into CCT to make it easier. Its not easy to teach such a big class and they dont have time to master the real thing in such a short time.Originally posted by NathanG5:jitsu/judo/aikido is very different from the current ICCT or ACCT..
wats make u think its the same?
they all look the same..in reality they are very deadly..
jiu jitsu = grapple or submission(not ICCT kind of submission..u dun really want to be the kena hold) -
I know cos i got friends who are UCIs.They told me that their boss is ju jitsu trained and is one of the examiners for the jiu jitsu in spore. Like wat i sae, they modified it into CCT to make it easier. Its not easy to teach such a big class and they dont have time to master the real thing in such a short time.Originally posted by NathanG5:jitsu/judo/aikido is very different from the current ICCT or ACCT..
wats make u think its the same?
they all look the same..in reality they are very deadly..
jiu jitsu = grapple or submission(not ICCT kind of submission..u dun really want to be the kena hold) -
im train in both Aikido n Jiu Jitsu...Originally posted by Tango12:Cos i know cos i got friends who are UCIs.They told me that their boss is ju jitsu trained and is one of the examiners for the jiu jitsu in spore. Like wat i sae, they modified it into CCT to make it easier. Its not easy to teach such a big class and they dont have time to master the real thing in such a short time.
it dun really look the same to me..jitsu are very into submission..n i forget to add in my post..is Choke hold..
so if its modified..they aint the same anymore..dun think CCT are very effective..
i dun think class size is a problem..time is the major one as u have said.. -
they should learn the offense of muay thai kickboxing cause most of the time it won't be 1v1..jiujitsu is good for 1v1 cases where you can choke or break his limbs..but takes long to master..
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Muay thai or kick boxing?Muay thai is powerful cos the boxers are trained to b able to take the blows.R u sure our NSFs want to be whacked to be trained to take the blows. They will sae u mad one leh.Originally posted by stellazio:they should learn the offense of muay thai kickboxing cause most of the time it won't be 1v1..jiujitsu is good for 1v1 cases where you can choke or break his limbs..but takes long to master.. -
haha..yea..wait parents complain..Originally posted by Tango12:Muay thai or kick boxing?Muay thai is powerful cos the boxers are trained to b able to take the blows.R u sure our NSFs want to be whacked to be trained to take the blows. They will sae u mad one leh. -
aiyah they don't need to learn how to take the blows..just need to know how to execute it..and train against punching bags can liao..in the real world,one blow to the fatal part is all you need..Muay thai is kickboxing..Originally posted by Tango12:Muay thai or kick boxing?Muay thai is powerful cos the boxers are trained to b able to take the blows.R u sure our NSFs want to be whacked to be trained to take the blows. They will sae u mad one leh. -
Then isnt that same as wat the UCIs have taught us. Punches and kicks!!All the camps got sandbags rite?Or u expect the UCIs to ask all the 100 men to line up in a straight row and one by one to kick or punch a sandbag.Then it is up to u to go n train on the sandbag yrself. If u can master yr turning kick or 1 punch can ko pple then it is enough liao. The instructors have already taught u the techniques.It is up to you to go n try it out and train up.U muz have self training on yr own.Like studying, the teachers can only teach u, but u have to rely on yrself to study and improve also ma. Even the instructors teach the u best techniques also no use, cos u nv go n practice or train it up.Originally posted by stellazio:aiyah they don't need to learn how to take the blows..just need to know how to execute it..and train against punching bags can liao..in the real world,one blow to the fatal part is all you need..Muay thai is kickboxing.. -
Krav Maga!!!!!
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I think the syllabus should include:
Double leg takedown
Single leg take down
Basic hip throw
A few other basic wrestling takedowns
Rear Naked Choke
front lapel choke (dunno what it is called - basically form a cross with your forearms grab hold of each lapel ad apply down ward pressure)
Triangle choke
Arm bar
reverse arm bar
Full Mount
Side Mount
Guard position
Simple boxing
All these - easy to learn. Note easy to learn doesn not mean easy to master. But you can always practise in your own time. -
Gurkhas take Kyokushin as well.
I asked one of them at the last tournament. After BMT (or their equivalent), half of them take up Aikido, half of them take up Kyokushin.
Kyokushin good - full-contact bareknuckle sparring. -
U all just dun understand. Its just not the time, but also the money.SAF wont spend so much money on the NSFs. Y ADF, Gurkhas or SOF get to learn aikido, krav maga or even karate?It is v simple.Cos they r the elites,regulars and their numbers r not so huge. Their jobs are often dangerous and need proper and professional kinda training.SAF could spend the money to employ professonal instructors from outside just to teach them. But for the normal combat units, do u know how many men are there?If the instructor charge SAF $60 a month for each person, u know how large the sum of money or expenses is to SAF. Do u knoe y all the UCIs are all tkd trained n not other martial arts.Cos tkd is the most common practiced martial arts in spore.So SAF will just trained these pple up who are black belters in tkd with unarmed combat to teach the combat units. This means kinda 'free labour' for the SAF and it can save alot of money. How do u expect SAF to find so many krav maga or aikido instructors to teach so many units?Train the UCIs with aikido or krav maga then ask them go n teach?Impossible.Training takes time.To be gd, they need at least 1 to 2 yrs of training.By that time, ORD lor!!How to teach?
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UCI learn basic krav maga leh.....Originally posted by Tango12:U all just dun understand. Its just not the time, but also the money.SAF wont spend so much money on the NSFs. Y ADF, Gurkhas or SOF get to learn aikido, krav maga or even karate?It is v simple.Cos they r the elites,regulars and their numbers r not so huge. Their jobs are often dangerous and need proper and professional kinda training.SAF could spend the money to employ professonal instructors from outside just to teach them. But for the normal combat units, do u know how many men are there?If the instructor charge SAF $60 a month for each person, u know how large the sum of money or expenses is to SAF. Do u knoe y all the UCIs are all tkd trained n not other martial arts.Cos tkd is the most common practiced martial arts in spore.So SAF will just trained these pple up who are black belters in tkd with unarmed combat to teach the combat units. This means kinda 'free labour' for the SAF and it can save alot of money. How do u expect SAF to find so many krav maga or aikido instructors to teach so many units?Train the UCIs with aikido or krav maga then ask them go n teach?Impossible.Training takes time.To be gd, they need at least 1 to 2 yrs of training.By that time, ORD lor!!How to teach? -
Ya.V basic.Not sure if they r gd or master the thing well enuff yet.As if not the real krav maga from an israel instructor. They are not even certified and tested by the krav maga federation. From wat i knoe is that they learnt from some regulars who went for the course.Then they came back to teach the UCIs.Originally posted by Rockhound:UCI learn basic krav maga leh..... -
Aikido... no aikido... in that i agree with you. Have the people who are recc aikido actually practising aikido themselves? Or is it just something they 'heard'.Originally posted by Tango12:U all just dun understand. Its just not the time, but also the money.SAF wont spend so much money on the NSFs. Y ADF, Gurkhas or SOF get to learn aikido, krav maga or even karate?It is v simple.Cos they r the elites,regulars and their numbers r not so huge. Their jobs are often dangerous and need proper and professional kinda training.SAF could spend the money to employ professonal instructors from outside just to teach them. But for the normal combat units, do u know how many men are there?If the instructor charge SAF $60 a month for each person, u know how large the sum of money or expenses is to SAF. Do u knoe y all the UCIs are all tkd trained n not other martial arts.Cos tkd is the most common practiced martial arts in spore.So SAF will just trained these pple up who are black belters in tkd with unarmed combat to teach the combat units. This means kinda 'free labour' for the SAF and it can save alot of money. How do u expect SAF to find so many krav maga or aikido instructors to teach so many units?Train the UCIs with aikido or krav maga then ask them go n teach?Impossible.Training takes time.To be gd, they need at least 1 to 2 yrs of training.By that time, ORD lor!!How to teach?
Aikido has no place in the military because:
1) It's principles haven't really been proven. Where Aikido have been practiced by a public services group, it is usually that of the 'harder' variety, and that means it is very close to Jap Jiu Jitsu. So why not just go for JJJ?
2) Even if it is conceded that its principles really do work, it will take a very very long time for anyone to be proficient at the art. This is admitted by Morihei Ueshiba himself. -
y doubt those people?Originally posted by lwflee:Aikido... no aikido... in that i agree with you. Have the people who are recc aikido actually practising aikido themselves? Or is it just something they 'heard'.
Aikido has no place in the military because:
1) It's principles haven't really been proven. Where Aikido have been practiced by a public services group, it is usually that of the 'harder' variety, and that means it is very close to Jap Jiu Jitsu. So why not just go for JJJ?
2) Even if it is conceded that its principles really do work, it will take a very very long time for anyone to be proficient at the art. This is admitted by Morihei Ueshiba himself.
ADF,SOF n Gurkhas are practising Aikido..the Ghurkhas even have their own Aikido Shinjukai dojo..
most of our seniors who are black belters or brown..find it very useful..
u dun need the most fanciful locks to bring down your attacker..just a simple side step slam your palm into the attacker face...tats it..
thats y these arts are only practise by all 3 unit..they are more or less serving or working minimum 5 years..enough time to polish up their skill..n tats the basic only...n the basic is enough..
Jiu Jitsu exist in ADF n SOF..so SAF did go for these 2..
but if i were to chose..i'ii take Brazilian Jiu Jitsu by the Gracie family..which are more practical for unarmed fighting..
time is not a problem for the above unit mention..but a problem for NSFs unit..
but still have to admit that O Sensei is right..but its doesnt mean Aikido have no place in the military.. -
TKD is great, but it has no place in the SAF bcuz try excuting a back thrust with boots, helmet and SBO on. Not to mention mags, grenades and all the crap we stuff into the various pouches. -- Gd luck. Imagine a M203 gunner trying to do a side kick! Not to mention the time that it would take to train a person to decent level of proficiency.
I think at the end of the day we can argue about the which martial arts is better until we are blue.
But the best approach is probably we spend a bit of time studying and then taking the best moves that are suitable for all our soldiers in their roles and kit. -
No la.Doesnt mean u muz sidekick yr opponent at his stomache.U can front kick his groin or side kick his legs ma. All these techniques r easy and v effective.Even krav maga uses them also.Somemore u are wearing boots leh.Imagine one kick to yr opponent!!Even though U anyhow kick also nvm.U knoe how painful it is or not.Dun believe, u can try on your army friend next time.C whether can bring him down.In martial arts, u must b flexible. The kinda tkd u always learn in singapore which is restricted to kicking the body or head onli is known as the sport tkd.But martial art TKD is totally diff.It emphasises on punching also.I knoe some very gd old tkd fighters that can ko pple using punches onli too.But ,they belong to the older generation from gay world last time.Cos they treat TKD as martial arts not sport.Some of them were even champions in all style martial arts championships last time. Due to political problems in spore tkd now, the standard of tkd is not what it used to be.Originally posted by insouciant:TKD is great, but it has no place in the SAF bcuz try excuting a back thrust with boots, helmet and SBO on. Not to mention mags, grenades and all the crap we stuff into the various pouches. -- Gd luck. Imagine a M203 gunner trying to do a side kick! Not to mention the time that it would take to train a person to decent level of proficiency.
I think at the end of the day we can argue about the which martial arts is better until we are blue.
But the best approach is probably we spend a bit of time studying and then taking the best moves that are suitable for all our soldiers in their roles and kit. -
My fren, I have a black belt in TKD and I used to teach survival combat in the States. I know that you can kick anywhere I want in a real fight. But the fact of the matter is, try to twist your body into a side kick position with all the gear on, and you will realize 1) the weight slows you down, and 2) the weight causes a lot of stress on your joints ~ increasing the odds of you spraining a joint or two.Originally posted by Tango12:No la.Doesnt mean u muz sidekick yr opponent at his stomache.U can front kick his groin or side kick his legs ma. All these techniques r easy and v effective.Even krav maga uses them also.Somemore u are wearing boots leh.Imagine one kick to yr opponent!!Even though U anyhow kick also nvm.U knoe how painful it is or not.Dun believe, u can try on your army friend next time.C whether can bring him down.In martial arts, u must b flexible. The kinda tkd u always learn in singapore which is restricted to kicking the body or head onli is known as the sport tkd.But martial art TKD is totally diff.It emphasises on punching also.I knoe some very gd old tkd fighters that can ko pple using punches onli too.But ,they belong to the older generation from gay world last time.Cos they treat TKD as martial arts not sport.Some of them were even champions in all style martial arts championships last time. Due to political problems in spore tkd now, the standard of tkd is not what it used to be. -
Who sae u muz use side kick.TKD is not abt kicking also.U can use punching also wat. Black belt so?Black belt is only the starting of TKD.To b a master of tkd, you need to be at least 5 dan and above.Somemore, it is battle proven by the koreans during the both korea and vietnam wars.Go read this forum http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=157576Originally posted by insouciant:My fren, I have a black belt in TKD and I used to teach survival combat in the States. I know that you can kick anywhere I want in a real fight. But the fact of the matter is, try to twist your body into a side kick position with all the gear on, and you will realize 1) the weight slows you down, and 2) the weight causes a lot of stress on your joints ~ increasing the odds of you spraining a joint or two. -
IMO, whether TKD or jyujutsu or aikido or taiji. the training has to be frequent enough for it to really be useful. something like 1-2 hours a day, everyday.
otherwise, your grunts would just return to punching and kicking each other like your typical ah beng.