Pianist paid fine and returns home after 28 years
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lazerlordz, whaddya think? would the Israelis prefer nice swiss alps scenery?
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oh.. then it makes it even more important that he be punished!
seriously!
he went off to escape...
won't you term him a deserter?
i would
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Jail him !
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I'd be happier defending a nation that knows how to appreciate it's talents and not one that simply thinks that the Self is greater than the Other.
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israel is our ally and we have no reasons to fear them.
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lets not forget that the concept of Nationalism and all these feelings of 'national pride' were what brought WW2 upon us. Lets not forget the lessons learnt.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Sometimes international interests have to take precedence over narrowminded national interest.That is the basis of a global civil society movement. -
in simple english pleaseOriginally posted by LazerLordz:I'd be happier defending a nation that knows how to appreciate it's talents and not one that simply thinks that the Self is greater than the Other.
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How do you term a person a deserter if he has not taken an oath to serve yet.?Originally posted by the Bear:oh.. then it makes it even more important that he be punished!
seriously!
he went off to escape...
won't you term him a deserter?
i would being under a law and taking an oath to defend and fight is very different.Actual desertion only applies in war and State of Emergency. -
Not too sure..the Diaspora might love it.The Hasidic Jews might prefer to remain in ME.Originally posted by HENG@:lazerlordz, whaddya think? would the Israelis prefer nice swiss alps scenery? -
A male citizen is bonded by the age of 15, if I am not mistaken. He can give up his citizenship and its obligations before that age, however. There is a deposit one has to place with the GOvernment if he wants to emigrate when he has passed that age.Originally posted by LazerLordz:You cannot become an UK citizen before the age of 18.By the time you are 18, the SAF act has already been in force over you.It's a no-win situation.Anyway, case is closed and the long term future of Singapore in the nurturing of culture and the arts takes precedence over punitive punishment.
This is a larger interest of the State, and jailing him or sending him to DB will just send the wrong signals out there.Fining him is good enough.It's a symbolic slap on the wrists.We cannot always act in a vacuum. -
Concept of State seen in a above-all light versus the people.Argh...too much Lit revision.Originally posted by the Bear:in simple english please
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he WAS punished. A fine is a punishment. End of story.Originally posted by the Bear:oh.. then it makes it even more important that he be punished!
seriously!
he went off to escape...
won't you term him a deserter?
i would
He didn't go off to escape. He went off to fulfill a once in a lifetime ambition. If he didn't have to make that choice, I don't doubt that he would have returned and served.
So no I don't think he's a deserter. In any case, one country's deserter is another country's gain. Better we snatch him back for ourselves, than to continue letting everyone else but us have him. -
Nationalism is easily subverted to devious designs by dictators.Did you know many Wermacht officers were executed for assasination plans on Hitler?Originally posted by HENG@:lets not forget that the concept of Nationalism and all these feelings of 'national pride' were what brought WW2 upon us. Lets not forget the lessons learnt.
A strong Army is always needed to protect democracy and freedom.Field Marshal Rommel deserves my salute. -
oh well.. i'm lost with the definitions bit...
but again, what makes him so special that he gets to run away?
like someone said, one is bonded at 15.. if his folks did not want him to do NS, they could have moved before then, and he could get away with it...
ultimately, a person, or their family or anyone who makes decisions, have to bear the consequences of their decisions...
running away from NS is despicable...Originally posted by LazerLordz:How do you term a person a deserter if he has not taken an oath to serve yet.? being under a law and taking an oath to defend and fight is very different.Actual desertion only applies in war and State of Emergency. -
a nation that knows that putting natural gem quality diamonds into an industrial drill bit when using artificial diamonds will suffice, is a waste of precious resources.Originally posted by the Bear:in simple english please -
Originally posted by the Bear:
i totally agree on this.
[b]to those who rant on his side, what do you think?
he was a singapore citizen who committed an offense before he became a UK citizen..
now, if he became a UK citizen before NS, there would not be an issue...
however, he committed the offense knowingly..
it IS a matter of sovereignty... i don't think you singapore bashers would even think about that..
so, are you saying that the crimes people have committed cannot be pursued by the country where the crime was commited because the perp is an alien?
what i would say is that he got of easily.. but looking at the circumstances, how else would you want to "punish" the man?
let it be..
as for the Mossad.. "victim mentality" or not, they do things that i would support... in a world where a slip would see them annihilated, would you, as an Israeli, sleep better with them on the prowl?[/b]
For those words i underlined, i personally think that a fine is too light. HE should at least be barred for entering singapore for not serving national service. If not, impose certain restrictions on him entering or leaving singapore.
The reason being there have been a number of cases in which 40+ yrs old who have skipped national services are arrested and made to serve their time. There wont be any pain and It wont be very fair if he just get away with a fine (he dun even remember the amount) which he can afford easily.
He should be faulted for his decision made while he is a 20 yr old. In which he choose not to come back from national service.
Who can predict whether if one will become someone famous, rich or great in the future? He knows the consquences when he made the choice.
His achievements later in life is commendable. But if we noticed, he nv claimed to be an ex singaporean.
If anyone can made his sort of decision and get away lightly, maybe anyone of us or our children can be encouraged to do the same thing. -
he does indeed.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Nationalism is easily subverted to devious designs by dictators.Did you know many Wermacht officers were executed for assasination plans on Hitler?
A strong Army is always needed to protect democracy and freedom.Field Marshal Rommel deserves my salute.
Stalin was worse, honestly speaking.
Well they're all nutters. -
ok. in this case, i'll make sure if i ever decide to have kids, they will be reigstered as british citizens ok? then no fuss.Originally posted by the Bear:oh well.. i'm lost with the definitions bit...
but again, what makes him so special that he gets to run away?
like someone said, one is bonded at 15.. if his folks did not want him to do NS, they could have moved before then, and he could get away with it...
ultimately, a person, or their family or anyone who makes decisions, have to bear the consequences of their decisions...
running away from NS is despicable... -
Well then.That's very much our own opinions isn't it.I say that as a young man, to "run away" took much more guts than coming back to serve and see his future evaporate.This would not have happened if we were like South Korea, which allows conscripts to enlist later on after their studies if they are promising or in the case of their footballers.Originally posted by the Bear:oh well.. i'm lost with the definitions bit...
but again, what makes him so special that he gets to run away?
like someone said, one is bonded at 15.. if his folks did not want him to do NS, they could have moved before then, and he could get away with it...
ultimately, a person, or their family or anyone who makes decisions, have to bear the consequences of their decisions...
running away from NS is despicable...
It's the inflexibility that pushed him to do so.Music education is a linear event, and so is sports development.Makes me wonder why we never managed to have a U-23/U-20 side that can progress as a total unit without being split up.
National Service is a good thing, but the application and interpretation has always been the domain of insufferable rigid departments and policymakers who do not see the value of flexible enlistment on a case by case basis.
What's more important?Developing national talents or the efficiency chase?The last time I checked, we are trying to re-orient ourselves into a creative industry nation..not Ford's Model T line anymore. -
Who are you gonna have kids with? A fellow Singaporean emigre or a Birtish-born citizen?Originally posted by HENG@:ok. in this case, i'll make sure if i ever decide to have kids, they will be reigstered as british citizens ok? then no fuss. -
that, is for me to know and u to find out.Originally posted by iveco:Who are you gonna have kids with? A fellow Singaporean emigre or a Birtish-born citizen?
thinking of adopting. maybe only girls. -
Inflexibility exists at all levels of all departments. It is the "bedrock" of our nation's "efficiency".Originally posted by LazerLordz:Well then.That's very much our own opinions isn't it.I say that as a young man, to "run away" took much more guts than coming back to serve and see his future evaporate.This would not have happened if we were like South Korea, which allows conscripts to enlist later on after their studies if they are promising or in the case of their footballers.
It's the inflexibility that pushed him to do so.Music education is a linear event, and so is sports development.Makes me wonder why we never managed to have a U-23/U-20 side that can progress as a total unit without being split up.
National Service is a good thing, but the application and interpretation has always been the domain of insufferable rigid departments and policymakers who do not see the value of flexible enlistment on a case by case basis.
What's more important?Developing national talents or the efficiency chase?The last time I checked, we are trying to re-orient ourselves into a creative industry nation..not Ford's Model T line anymore. -
whoa whoa. nationalism ah. cannot say things like that. Later people say u trying to subvert the nation. say u treason must be shot ahOriginally posted by LazerLordz:Well then.That's very much our own opinions isn't it.I say that as a young man, to "run away" took much more guts than coming back to serve and see his future evaporate.This would not have happened if we were like South Korea, which allows conscripts to enlist later on after their studies if they are promising or in the case of their footballers.
It's the inflexibility that pushed him to do so.Music education is a linear event, and so is sports development.Makes me wonder why we never managed to have a U-23/U-20 side that can progress as a total unit without being split up.
National Service is a good thing, but the application and interpretation has always been the domain of insufferable rigid departments and policymakers who do not see the value of flexible enlistment on a case by case basis.
What's more important?Developing national talents or the efficiency chase?The last time I checked, we are trying to re-orient ourselves into a creative industry nation..not Ford's Model T line anymore. -
uhh.. how come the doctors get to do their NS after they become doctors?
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because we need them as MOs.Originally posted by the Bear:uhh.. how come the doctors get to do their NS after they become doctors?
are you ok?