SAF Bullshido - As in Way of the Bullsh it
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Ok, be sensible in what you say here please. I dunno how far or how much we can discuss here.
Anyway, in the course of your SAF service, you would more likely than not have been taught something that clearly and obviously does not work. Let's mock some of the instructors or doctrines here (no names of course- that would be too...mean)
Now...when i was in BMT, many ppl were making remarks like "stoopid fire movement...confirm die one lor if do like that..." Well, after having had one game of airsoft, I feel that i am well informed enough to say...say movement works!
Now try and picture a group of people w/o any concept of proper fire movement and team work...now picture them trying to attack an enemy position.
What will happen is that everyone will do...nothing. they will move into range, go behind cover and shoot from behind cover. no one dares to move forward, no one knows what to do. Sooner or later, the enemy from the safety of their entrenched position will realize that and one or two of them will flank you and kill you, etc. So w/o fire movement, your attack has no momentum. You will almost never succeed in your attack.
So fire movement is imo not bull shi t. It works. One point though - i was told in BMT that when you are near enough you charge at the enemy firing at full auto from the HIPS! That made no sense to me and I still think it is bull shi t.
Thoughts? -
Move from cover one or two at a time, with an equal number to provide cover fire.Originally posted by lwflee:Ok, be sensible in what you say here please. I dunno how far or how much we can discuss here.
Anyway, in the course of your SAF service, you would more likely than not have been taught something that clearly and obviously does not work. Let's mock some of the instructors or doctrines here (no names of course- that would be too...mean)
Now...when i was in BMT, many ppl were making remarks like "stoopid fire movement...confirm die one lor if do like that..." Well, after having had one game of airsoft, I feel that i am well informed enough to say...say movement works!
Now try and picture a group of people w/o any concept of proper fire movement and team work...now picture them trying to attack an enemy position.
What will happen is that everyone will do...nothing. they will move into range, go behind cover and shoot from behind cover. no one dares to move forward, no one knows what to do. Sooner or later, the enemy from the safety of their entrenched position will realize that and one or two of them will flank you and kill you, etc. So w/o fire movement, your attack has no momentum. You will almost never succeed in your attack.
So fire movement is imo not bull shi t. It works. One point though - i was told in BMT that when you are near enough you charge at the enemy firing at full auto from the HIPS! That made no sense to me and I still think it is bull shi t.
Thoughts? -
The only bu||sh|t is the breakfall move in UC.
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prowling with an unloaded rifle.
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nothing wrong. you are not expected to meet an enemy with loaded rifleOriginally posted by Hellraiza:prowling with an unloaded rifle. -
I tot it is the same way in judo also?Originally posted by ditzy:The only bu||sh|t is the breakfall move in UC.
but then if breakfall onto a rock or even tree roots .. then how?
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breakfall is usefull......., saved my back once when i slipped and fell @ home on tiles
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Poor tiles.Originally posted by Geforce3:breakfall is usefull......., saved my back once when i slipped and fell @ home on tiles -
Originally posted by lwflee:
Where did you play airsoft? And when? After you NS? PM me im interested
[Well, after having had one game of airsoft, I feel that i am well informed enough to say...say movement works!
b] -
Oh, and i remember when i was in BMT, i was told by the instructor to run and secure a junction. Now, this was when i was still very 'green'...so i did not really know what to do. So i drew on my years of experience playing computer games and had a eureka moment. I would run like this:
Sgt never say anything, hence I must be doing it right.
BALLS! I now know the instructor either did not care or did not know better.
1. You cannot get a sight picture whilst running. It is physically impossible
2. Even if you can, you are almost inevitably going to trip and fall. And look like an idiot.
Mind, holding it with the butt tucked into the shoulder is fine. But not like in the picture, with the rifle raised up to your eye. -
I am not in Singapore.Originally posted by mrwonderful:Where did you play airsoft? And when? After you NS? PM me im interested -
Well, I do think that unarmed combat sessions are plain bullsh*t.
The instructors simply teach the techniques, and the soliders just wayang in front of the instructors. For example, the 'victims' have to show pain by slapping their thighs.
In addition, I'm having doubts as to the effectiveness of UC in actual combat situations. UC sessions are conducted in clean fatigues in a training shed, and I don't think it'll quite be the same in a real jungle while wearing SBO.
I'd far rather that they modify the SAR-21 to have bayonet lugs and reintroduce bayonet fighting techniques. I think that will be far more relevant in real life combat. -
why bullshit? Just becoz you never try it wif concrate floor before? you didn't watch wrestling before?Originally posted by ditzy:The only bu||sh|t is the breakfall move in UC. -
When you are wearing SBO, don't even need a breakfall. Your helmet and webbing can protect you quite adequately.Originally posted by fudgester:Well, I do think that unarmed combat sessions are plain bullsh*t.
The instructors simply teach the techniques, and the soliders just wayang in front of the instructors. For example, the 'victims' have to show pain by slapping their thighs.
In addition, I'm having doubts as to the effectiveness of UC in actual combat situations. UC sessions are conducted in clean fatigues in a training shed, and I don't think it'll quite be the same in a real jungle while wearing SBO. -
depends where u prowl lah.Originally posted by Icemoon:nothing wrong. you are not expected to meet an enemy with loaded rifle -
co_ck_end_nathan...Originally posted by lwflee:Oh, and i remember when i was in BMT, i was told by the instructor to run and secure a junction. Now, this was when i was still very 'green'...so i did not really know what to do. So i drew on my years of experience playing computer games and had a eureka moment. I would run like this:
Sgt never say anything, hence I must be doing it right.
BALLS! I now know the instructor either did not care or did not know better.
1. You cannot get a sight picture whilst running. It is physically impossible
2. Even if you can, you are almost inevitably going to trip and fall. And look like an idiot.
Mind, holding it with the butt tucked into the shoulder is fine. But not like in the picture, with the rifle raised up to your eye. -
where? in enemy territory?Originally posted by Hellraiza:depends where u prowl lah.
on singapore soil, rules of engagement prevail. so you're not expected to shoot instantly. -
Breakfall is bullshit???U shld b glad that wat u learning is same as wat the SWAT is learning.If useless, then they learn for wat. SWAT leh.Not ah dog or ah cat unit.Dun believe, c this http://forum.mil.sina.com.cn/cgi-bin/view.cgi?gid=71&fid=4642&thread=66157&date=20051119&page=6Originally posted by ditzy:The only bu||sh|t is the breakfall move in UC. -
can vomit blood....nevermind...take it as im babbling.....of course ROE prevails lah im a bloody ex-rp...but to me prowling with an unloaded rifle in certain sensitive areas of a camp where there HAVE been instances of inflitration...u cant help but think twice of what could happen. better safe than sorry, is my mottoOriginally posted by Icemoon:where? in enemy territory?
on singapore soil, rules of engagement prevail. so you're not expected to shoot instantly. -
Originally posted by Hellraiza:can vomit blood....nevermind...take it as im babbling.....of course ROE prevails lah im a bloody ex-rp...but to me prowling with an unloaded rifle in certain sensitive areas of a camp where there HAVE been instances of inflitration...u cant help but think twice of what could happen. better safe than sorry, is my motto
I see.I feel the same way too, if you know what I mean..sometimes I never liked sending the guards out with this ROE.. -
The SAF has a way of doing that to people...Originally posted by nightzip:co_ck_end_nathan... -
I havent done CCT, but I think I know what you are referring to (That you are supposed to slap your/opponent's thigh when you feel pain).Originally posted by fudgester:Well, I do think that unarmed combat sessions are plain bullsh*t.
The instructors simply teach the techniques, and the soliders just wayang in front of the instructors. For example, the 'victims' have to show pain by slapping their thighs.
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If so, that is perfectly legit and reasonable way of doing things. What you must realize is that joint locks are 'locks' for a reason - You joints are locked out, and further pressure means your jopints will break. The tap is a safety mechanism to tell your opponent to ease off the pressure.
I am surprised that has not been explained to you.
wait.... SAF instructors.... nope not surprised. They are probably more concerned with how loud you shout and how hard you tap... -
When you say unloaded, hell raiza, i presume you mean they carry ammo but do not load?
If so, i don't think there is anything terribly wrong with that. Our posture depends very much on the threat levels existing at the material time. If all is well, why load the weapon?
The risk assesement is along these lines:
Adv of not loading
- helps significantly to reduce misfires, and the associated nightmare that comes with that
disadvs? -
Fire and movement works. Its been proven in how many wars le.
What doesn't work is the anti-aircraft drill.
Thing is, ur 5.56 traveling upwards to the sky isn't gonna do anything to an attack aircraft or gunship except piss the pilot off. In all respects, those things pack enuff firepower to splatter ur section all over the floor.
Bullsh!t i 1: "the amount of lead flyin at the aircraft would frighten the pilot away."
Absolute truth: Pilots are so full of themselves, down right annoying ppl that they would just drop a CBU down ur throat the moment u do that. If not, just their external fuel tanks will do.
Bullsh!t 2: "In the vietnam war, small arms ground fire shot down many US planes."
Absolute truth: US Napalm from attack aircraft killed a lot more suckers shooting at them.
Bullsh!t 3: "We line perpendicular to the aircraft path, so that the line of bullets would affect us minimaly."
Absolute truth: Real attack pilots dun strafe like the movies do. Instead of strafing in the verticle line path, they got for tight circles of lead. YES... U dun see those line of bullet plopping away from u. They will rain like there is a 5 x 5 meter raincloud over ur heads.
Only absolute truth in the anti -aircraft drill is, "FREEZE. Don't even move." Even doppler radars when in ground attack mode, is trying to look and differentiate moving objects from the background terrain. Theoretically, if u don't move, u won't appear on the radar screen in the GMT mode. -
I suppose you gotta aim 2 football fields infront of an enemy aircraft and 1.5 football field infront of choppers.
Btw,just a question, you see enemy troops being airdropped above your position.Would you fire on them?AS read that firing on air-dropped troops while they are still in the air is not allowed in some convention.If you have the details, please share.Thanks