Run away from NS? Think again
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THE Government is coming down hard on draft dodgers in the wake of a public outcry over a pianist who was let off with a fine for skipping national service.
Taking an uncompromising stance on NS evaders, the Defence Ministry (Mindef) plans to push for stiffer fines and press for jail sentences for those who fail to enlist.
Those who dodge the draft could face a fine of up to $10,000 - double the current maximum - and a jail term if they fail to answer their call-up orders for more than two years.
The planned penalties, Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean said in Parliament yesterday, are meant to send a strong signal that NS is critical to the country's survival.
But, he stressed, they cannot be a substitute for NS. 'The fine is a penalty for failing to fulfil his obligations under the Enlistment Act, and the defaulter remains liable for NS.'
Giving figures, he gave the assurance that the situation was not dire. In the past 20 years, only 185 men have been convicted in court for offences under the Enlistment Act, which lays down the law on the registration and enlistment of men liable for NS.
Of these, 43 were jailed and 140 were fined.
Also, each year, an average of 100 fail to register for NS or to return home before the expiry of their exit permits, which all NS men must obtain when they are out of the country for more than six months.
This works out to just 0.5 per cent of the total liable for NS each year. Of these, an average of 12 end up in court.
Mindef's firm stand is based on three key principles, said Mr Teo.
They are: NS is critical for the nation's defence and survival; NS is universal, and every Singaporean male who is fit to serve must do so; and, there must be equity, with all treated equally, no matter who they are or what talents they have.
Most Singaporeans, he noted, had shown their strong support for these principles: Some 700,000 have served in the armed, police and civil defence forces since NS became compulsory in 1967.
Of these, over 300,000 are now doing full-time NS, or are still liable to be called up annually for in-camp training and standby duties. Another 400,000 have completed their NS obligations.
Said Mr Teo: 'It is not an exaggeration to say that the peace and prosperity that Singapore and Singaporeans have enjoyed over the past four decades is built on the dedication of NS men.'
His ministerial statement, spelling out how Mindef plans to tighten rules against NS evaders, was prompted by the uproar that erupted after celebrity pianist Melvyn Tan was fined $3,000 for skipping NS. Now a British citizen, the 49-year-old returned here to visit his ageing parents last year.
Many Singaporean men cried foul over the fine, which they saw as a low price to pay for skipping 2 1/2 years of sweat, mud and tears. In forum letters and online postings, they demanded to know: Was Mr Tan let off just because he was a famous musician?
But there were others who took a softer stance, noting that Singapore could keep its talented citizens by allowing people to serve their NS in the arts or community.
MPs yesterday were likewise divided, with one camp backing the stiffer penalties, and the other pressing the need to forgive.
For two hours, 16 Members of the House rose to speak passionately on the subject. Hardliners including Non-Constituency MP Steve Chia backed the clampdown on draft dodgers, while others noted that the uncompromising stand was at odds with Singapore's larger push for its citizens to go global and pursue their dreams.
But the defence minister remained unmoved by the calls for a more liberal stance.
The uproar, he said, showed the penalties were inadequate for those who had defaulted for so long they were too old to do NS.
He rejected calls to let people serve their NS outside the uniformed groups. The Government, he said, could not compel people to sacrifice two years unless it was critical for the country's defence.
He also stressed that the laws had to be fair to the 700,000 who had served or were serving their NS.
'Singaporeans serve willingly, out of a sense of duty, and also a sense that the system is fair...nobody can dodge his responsibility to serve without severe legal and social sanctions.'
Defaulters will have a hard time
FINE
Maximum fine to be doubled from $5,000 to $10,000.
JAIL
No change in maximum jail time, but the Ministry of Defence will press for 'short jail sentence' for those who default on their national service (NS) for more than two years but are young enough to serve their full-time and operationally-ready NS in full.
Longer jail sentence for defaulters who are too old to serve NS in a combat vocation or fulfil operationally-ready duties in full. Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean did not specify what age this would be, but the cut-off age for training for operationally-ready NSmen is 40.
Jail term of up to three years for those too old to be called up for NS at all. -
Thats it. Im renouncing my citizenship.
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With this rethink on more punishment, parents are going to rethink about Singapore citizenship for their son. If he serves NS and got killed accidentally inside, the country only compensates them $100,000. NS does not give their son a headstart at all but hinders his future. -
lan lan suck thumb....dats the price to pay for citizenship...Originally posted by macjoe:With this rethink on more punishment, parents are going to rethink about Singapore citizenship for their son. If he serves NS and got killed accidentally inside, the country only compensates them $100,000. NS does not give their son a headstart at all but hinders his future. -
Look, if they increase the penalties, then they must be more flexible as well. If i want to work overseas, and have no intention of going back, I should not be tied to the country.
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Paying the price was never easy.For those of us who came out unscathed, good for us.For those who didn't, or had to move abroad, I feel for them too.Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:lan lan suck thumb....dats the price to pay for citizenship...
The human condition is not a one-track template. -
its juz too bad.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Paying the price was never easy.For those of us who came out unscathed, good for us.For those who didn't, or had to move abroad, I feel for them too.
The human condition is not a one-track template.
its impossible to satisfy 2 grps of ppl...
if the govt choose to b flexible, the non flexible residents will complain...
if the govt choose otherwise, the flexible of residents will complain...
wadever the govt choose, it is bound to hv grps of ppl who r nt satisfied...
so the defense minister chose the fairest way. everybody serves. no questions asked. -
Quite true.The choice is there, it's still up to you if you want to take the normal route and serve, or do you want to drop it all and leg it.Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:its juz too bad.
its impossible to satisfy 2 grps of ppl...
if the govt choose to b flexible, the non flexible residents will complain...
if the govt choose otherwise, the flexible of residents will complain...
wadever the govt choose, it is bound to hv grps of ppl who r nt satisfied...
so the defense minister chose the fairest way. everybody serves. no questions asked. Both have their inordinate price to pay. -
if i had any children n had a son, i won't choose to bring them up in a country where, if my son is killed accidently during NS, the country's leadership will not only allow white horses to get away with manslaughtering him, but will go to great lengths to protect their identities!
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defending singapore is the responsibility of men
we cannot depend on foreigners, eg. The british to defend singapore for us, for the history of singapore tells us so
so the ppl of singapore has to defend their homeland
but we cannot possible let women and old ppl defend rite?
therefore it is such an honourable responsibility for men to defend singapore
i understand the tough training (although i am not in NS but in NCC), but it is necessary.
in singapore some ppl dun wan go army or NS, whereas in China ppl would fight for a place in the army. such a great difference.
every male citizen should understand the importance of NS, and that it is not a waste of time of two years.
those who are trying to escape from NS, think about it again.
if everyone wants to escape from ns, then who will defend singapore?
cheers -
if that fellow can pay $5000, $10000 will still be nothing for him. At least must be $25 000 fine plus $75 000 bond and 3 weeks detention barracks.
And that money must go to charity and not into government pocket. -
i agree 10k is too little...Originally posted by AF2005:if that fellow can pay $5000, $10000 will still be nothing for him. At least must be $25 000 fine plus $75 000 bond and 3 weeks detention barracks.
And that money must go to charity and not into government pocket.
imprisonment is oso needed...
otherwise the richs can get away easily... -
****. Wanker. The NCC of today is a bloody joke. The sgts do not even have the power and authority to get their men to STFU. Bloody useless pusses.Originally posted by huaqing:defending singapore is the responsibility of men
we cannot depend on foreigners, eg. The british to defend singapore for us, for the history of singapore tells us so
so the ppl of singapore has to defend their homeland
but we cannot possible let women and old ppl defend rite?
therefore it is such an honourable responsibility for men to defend singapore
i understand the tough training (although i am not in NS but in NCC), but it is necessary.
in singapore some ppl dun wan go army or NS, whereas in China ppl would fight for a place in the army. such a great difference.
every male citizen should understand the importance of NS, and that it is not a waste of time of two years.
those who are trying to escape from NS, think about it again.
if everyone wants to escape from ns, then who will defend singapore?
cheers
NS is not a 2 year thing. It spans many years. That is the problem. It affects our careers, our prospects. It ties us to this country. It is a huge embuggerance.
You are obviously trying to wind us up, seeing as you have made similar posts on other threads.
- edited for (a little) civility, moderation and spelling. - -
please mind your words.Originally posted by lwflee:Fcuk You lah. Wanker. The NCC of today is a bloody Joke. The sgts do no even have the power and authority to get his men to STFU. Bloody uselsss puss y.
NS is not a 2 year thing. It spans many years. That is the problem. It affects out careers, our prospects. It ties us to this frankly downright smelly country.
i am not the government.
to complain, please go to MinDef -
to make things worse...the way the army wrks...
completely sux to the core...
unfair treatment, doin things for the sake of doin...all these r juz crap...
wastin my time, i wld rather study n aim for better life...
i simply wldn't mind servin if it has a better system... -
serving 2.5 yrs NS is more or less predictable as you can commit that 18 to 21 yr old of your life,
But once started work, you have to be responsible to your company and even worse if you are one man show. The reservist is a pain, having to cancel or even not cannot take up any projects upon in camp regardless of one mnth to four weeks training. Your boss will get piss off when the reservist word is being mention and it will worse if he/she is a non-NS person.
i have a colleague who got retrench in his first week out of four weeks of in camp. If he has no reservist he would not be retrenched at all. The small company would have pick another one going on major leave or reservist. Thats the burden reservist have to carry regardless of any saf, police or scdf.
My advice is if like to be active reservist person, join a gov job, they can even released you for a year with gov pay and your time devoted can be well rewarded and not penalise. -
huh i thought nowadays no more 2 and a half years but 2 years?
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responsibility is one thing. when u take up the "honor" of defending your country, the least the government could do is to be accountable to you.Originally posted by huaqing:defending singapore is the responsibility of men
we cannot depend on foreigners, eg. The british to defend singapore for us, for the history of singapore tells us so
so the ppl of singapore has to defend their homeland
but we cannot possible let women and old ppl defend rite?
therefore it is such an honourable responsibility for men to defend singapore
i understand the tough training (although i am not in NS but in NCC), but it is necessary.
in singapore some ppl dun wan go army or NS, whereas in China ppl would fight for a place in the army. such a great difference.
every male citizen should understand the importance of NS, and that it is not a waste of time of two years.
those who are trying to escape from NS, think about it again.
if everyone wants to escape from ns, then who will defend singapore?
cheers
But the government is not accountable, they do not even do the least, so sorry, people also don't want this "honor". Afterall, there is no real honor in serving people who don't deserve to be served.
You, have to open your eyes and see things as they are. Just because u are in NCC, doesn't mean a thing. Last I looked u're in some 'slack' platoon and u cannot be punished with push ups right? When I was in NCC, everytime there was training, 100 to 200 push ups is quite standard. What is NCC now? Don't come here with your chinaboy innocence and preach the importance and honor fo NS to us. We know BETTER. -
For those around or before my time i have to say 2.5 years. When your time come, you can say 2 year and even shorter reservists.Originally posted by huaqing:huh i thought nowadays no more 2 and a half years but 2 years?
And future maybe there will even be 1 year NS and real training falls under reservists scope. It think some countries used career reservist as active frontline defence/attack force, in short they die first.
its a different era. -
Hmmmm..... Huaqing...
For once, u need to do some reality check on the issue of Chinese ppls dying to serve in the PLA......... Firstly, let me explain why so many ppls here are letting out these negative comment abt the NS, which has seem to amaze u abt why ppls are reluctant to do NS. To u, it may seem tat Singaporean are not Patriotic or sense of belonging.
First of all, I have completed my NS 2 yr terms in one of the Guards battalion. So I can more or less explain the sentiments faced by some of the ppls here who have done NS alreadi.
Firstly, to let u the truth, the pay one gets during his NSF and NS term is veri MISERABLE. Of course, if u believe 100% into wat the Govt say, " increase welfare and pay",...... then, I realli hope u can go in and have a first hand experience. The pay, we receive do not realistically reflect the true market rate outside. This is also true for the regulars. I once heard my 2nd sgt back during my NSF days commenting that the pay he receive could hardly sustain him his wife and two kids. He still needs to pay for his three room flat, CPF, Electrical and water bills and his Children education. After paying all those, he hardly have any savings left. Another reason is when this regulars get old and must retire, they find difficulty getting jobs outside in the REAL world. Unless u are those lucky handful that eventually become consultants in ST Engg, or become OM of Schools...... most of those lao cik have difficulty getting employed bcos they are in the army too long and have been totally detached from the workforce. They may not have relevant skills like IT, Marketing, management which is going to be a hinder for them. More-over, companies are looking for leadership roles or skills in coporate rather than ur army skills!!
Secondly, is the general attitude ppl around us, and the general picture, impression of ppl in Green. Unlike in China, which the ppls see their troops as an icon or a poster-boy, something ppls look forward to with pride..... we do not have this in Singapore. To tell u the truth, most ppls around the world join the armed forces due to the Iron rice bowl, and lack of relevant marketable job skills, I believe this is true for China. Most ppls in the forces, especially the NCOs sign on bcos of their low education level and they cannot get employed. In China, most of the senior leaders in the CCP, also hold military titles or appointments. Furthermore, there are many 'propaganda' movies aired on TV in China, potraying their troops in a veri postive manner, some wat like a prima dona. Also, it is a common knowledge that if one serves in the armed forces in China, it opens up a window of opportunities for them. From wat I know from my PRC classmates, getting into the forces is like having a Uni cert in Singapore. In China, if u serve in the forces, even if u are an NCO or u are on a short term contract, the chances of u getting employed and getting a better job in the Government owned enterprise is very high. Besides, u will also receive lots of subsidies and incentives, which is something u will never get in Singapore.
Thus with this in view, one could understand why China ppls are dying to get a place in the PLA. -
I agree with equlus84.
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watch your words...Originally posted by HENG@:What is NCC now? Don't come here with your chinaboy innocence and preach the importance and honor fo NS to us. We know BETTER. -
but the main point is that is no one go NS den ppl can anyhow attack singapore easily...
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there is the saf, look, you really think those ns man can fight in a war arh. please lor. wayang only. waste of time and money.Originally posted by huaqing:but the main point is that is no one go NS den ppl can anyhow attack singapore easily... -
sure, most of the NS men cannot make it... i know cos me also NS men.. haha!!Originally posted by Ito_^:there is the saf, look, you really think those ns man can fight in a war arh. please lor. wayang only. waste of time and money.
all we can do is show up in numbers, wayang abit ... hopefully the enemy get frighten (doubt so), than pray hard that the US army/marines can do the job 4 us...
but than again, we need to wayang in numbers right? so need NS to get the to get the people!!
guys, give huaqing a break, he is probably some PR from PRC studing in some SAP school... give him some credit for being so patriotic to his new country.
. also being so young of cos he is in his little fish bowl, sheltered from all the negativities by his teachers. innocent boy lah...