Command School Choices
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As every person who's gone through Basic Military Training at BMTC Tekong knows, enlistees are asked to complete an Express Interest (EI) Survey that asks them whether they would or would not like to be a commander during their period in National Service.
OCs and PCs in BMT have often been reported to have persuaded (sometimes quite forcefully) their recruits to select "Yes" to be a commander. At times, PCs and OCs may use peer pressure to get recruits to select "Yes". On other occasions, officers may even use near-intimidation by asking all who intend to select "No" to see them repeatedly until they are assured the answer will be "Yes".
My question is:
Is this Ethical? Are BMT commanders keeping their recruit's welfare and wellbeing in mind when they do this?
I ask this because now that I'm in a command school, I've come across a few trainees who SHOULD have and WANTED to select "No" but didn't do so because of similar persuasion. These trainees suffer more than the rest of us and most eventually find ways to OOC anyway.
What are your views on this? -
Originally posted by Quirinus:
R u in SISPEC or OCS? I think it ie best for recruit to be given a choice. If forced
As every person who's gone through Basic Military Training at BMTC Tekong knows, enlistees are asked to complete an Express Interest (EI) Survey that asks them whether they would or would not like to be a commander during their period in National Service.
OCs and PCs in BMT have often been reported to have persuaded (sometimes quite forcefully) their recruits to select "Yes" to be a commander. At times, PCs and OCs may use peer pressure to get recruits to select "Yes". On other occasions, officers may even use near-intimidation by asking all who intend to select "No" to see them repeatedly until they are assured the answer will be "Yes".
My question is:
[b]Is this Ethical? Are BMT commanders keeping their recruit's welfare and wellbeing in mind when they do this?
I ask this because now that I'm in a command school, I've come across a few trainees who SHOULD have and WANTED to select "No" but didn't do so because of similar persuasion. These trainees suffer more than the rest of us and most eventually find ways to OOC anyway.
What are your views on this?[/b]
to be a sergeant or officer, need to serve the reservist on average longer.
I thinkit is better
to call their father or mother to talk CO SISPEC or Commander OCS to let their son to opt out of the course if better. -
What is up with you and your mum and dad? Are you not old enough to stand on your own two feet? FFS! If i were the commander i would be pretty damn pissed that one of my soldiers is so useless.Originally posted by will4:R u in SISPEC or OCS? I think it ie best for recruit to be given a choice. If forced
to be a sergeant or officer, need to serve the reservist on average longer.
I thinkit is better
to call their father or mother to talk CO SISPEC or Commander OCS to let their son to opt out of the course if better. -
If you wish to drop out, use the proper channels or use your brain for the more creative ways.Originally posted by will4:R u in SISPEC or OCS? I think it ie best for recruit to be given a choice. If forced
to be a sergeant or officer, need to serve the reservist on average longer.
I thinkit is better
to call their father or mother to talk CO SISPEC or Commander OCS to let their son to opt out of the course if better.
Be a man.
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If being forced to go SISPEC or OCS, what method is best to opt out?Originally posted by LazerLordz:If you wish to drop out, use the proper channels or use your brain for the more creative ways.
Be a man.
Sometimes if never call our father or mother to talk, they will try to be fierce to force u to continue.
I have a fren kena astma but vocation is combat medic, he asked to change vocation but the MO said cannot, his mother had to step in by calling the MO everyday to reason until everybody at medical centre became scared. -
I, myself am in SISPEC. Personally, I want to be a leader but I am posing this topic because I've seen and met people who are just hoping to OOC. I've also heard about a few people like this in OCS though I guess these are more rare.
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If you have a medical reason, be persistent.If you can handle it, go through it.If not, it's another different story, I mean, you don't need people to teach you how to make yourself ineligible for such postings right?Originally posted by will4:If being forced to go SISPEC or OCS, what method is best to opt out?
Sometimes if never call our father or mother to talk, they will try to be fierce to force u to continue.
I have a fren kena astma but vocation is combat medic, he asked to change vocation but the MO said cannot, his mother had to step in by calling the MO everyday to reason until everybody at medical centre became scared.
There are such things like exclusion codes, but I won't go into them further.Do what you want, but do not get caught. -
y dun wan command sch?
b commander is gd manz...
so shiok...
i'm enjoyin... -
i will put yes without hesitation.
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be a commander, u mus have good leadership skill... n earn respect from your men.... but if u r a lousy commander u will b known as low class animal...
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there there .....Originally posted by lwflee:What is up with you and your mum and dad? Are you not old enough to stand on your own two feet? FFS! If i were the commander i would be pretty damn pissed that one of my soldiers is so useless.
I guess times are different now ... boys don't always become men after 2.5 years now ... (oops, sorry, 2 year
...) ...... balls are now optional ... 
but back to the topic, .... you know it, I know it ... we all know it .... to be honest, there ARE some pretty good NS commanders around ... the sort whose men will follow them into war with ... but then, the selection isn't always as straight forward as that, as we all know ... education plays an important role ... if you're pes A and got 5 A's for your A levels, or was a diploma medal holder, chances are, you'll end up being shunted to OCS, or SISPEC at the very least, even though you may pee in your pants when left alone in the jungle at night ... or cry in front of your platoon when scolded by your encik ... (seen that before) .... but that's 3G SAF for you eh ... when they talk about RMA and net-work centric warfare, where battles are fought on TV screens with drones and joysticks ... I simply hope the brass doesn't get so enamoured by all this jargons and slogans and ideas that they forget the fundamentals of war never change ...
... so there ... you end up with a bunch of commanders who can absorb a manual in 6 hours and regurgitate everything out, but whose men would perhaps never follow them into war ... -
This is why I've always said that selection for command schools has to weigh both field experience/ability with some form of adequate academic ability to plan and operate these new fangled tools.Originally posted by Fatum:there there .....
I guess times are different now ... boys don't always become men after 2.5 years now ... (oops, sorry, 2 year ...) ...... balls are now optional ...
but back to the topic, .... you know it, I know it ... we all know it .... to be honest, there ARE some pretty good NS commanders around ... the sort whose men will follow them into war with ... but then, the selection isn't always as straight forward as that, as we all know ... education plays an important role ... if you're pes A and got 5 A's for your A levels, or was a diploma medal holder, chances are, you'll end up being shunted to OCS, or SISPEC at the very least, even though you may pee in your pants when left alone in the jungle at night ... or cry in front of your platoon when scolded by your encik ... (seen that before) .... but that's 3G SAF for you eh ... when they talk about RMA and net-work centric warfare, where battles are fought on TV screens with drones and joysticks ... I simply hope the brass doesn't get so enamoured by all this jargons and slogans and ideas that they forget the fundamentals of war never change ... ... so there ... you end up with a bunch of commanders who can absorb a manual in 6 hours and regurgitate everything out, but whose men would perhaps never follow them into war ...
I've seen some really brilliant chaps, who are clearly not psychologically and emotionally suited for combat, do great work as a non-combat commander. -
juz serve n fark off la...Originally posted by mr_sotong:be a commander, u mus have good leadership skill... n earn respect from your men.... but if u r a lousy commander u will b known as low class animal... -
Seriously though, what the F is happening to the SAF when soldiers try to influence command decisions by using their parents. The lack of backbone and shame is appalling.
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siao ah the commanders? force the recuits to opt 'yes'? LOL!Originally posted by Quirinus:OCs and PCs in BMT have often been reported to have persuaded (sometimes quite forcefully) their recruits to select "Yes" to be a commander. At times, PCs and OCs may use peer pressure to get recruits to select "Yes". On other occasions, officers may even use near-intimidation by asking all who intend to select "No" to see them repeatedly until they are assured the answer will be "Yes".[b]
yes i'll say being a commander is good, but it takes skills and having a strong sense of leadership to be a good commander, forcing them to do what they don't wanna do will get them nowhere.
and anyway, need so many commanders for what? what we need is more capable men, men fight the war and do all the sai kang ok? -
i am in BMT now,nobody's forcing me to put yes..rather they are threatening to block us from command school..
seems like 45 out of 50 of my platoon wants to go to command school, me included..but seriously speaking, i am beginning to have doubts about wanting to be a commander -
Usually those that are very enthusiastic in wanting to be a commander, end up as a man.
It's interesting to note that in my BMT platoon and coy, those who were wayang kings and fitness gurus, ended up as men while the silent types who got things done, ended up in OCS, Guards Spec Conv.Course and yes, even three of us OOC personnel ended up in non-combat specialist courses.
Strange but true.If you brag and wayang your way, you won't get there. -
1.Our conscripts are basically students who have graduated from schools.Originally posted by lwflee:Seriously though, what the F is happening to the SAF when soldiers try to influence command decisions by using their parents. The lack of backbone and shame is appalling.
Compared to conscripts from other countries who are about 25-30.
The significant age difference.
2.The choice
It's a compulsory serve.
Which gives parents a bigger bargaining chip when it comes to negotiations with the army. Unlike the army in USA , in which it's done purely for an employment , and you choose to suffer . -
Originally posted by Quirinus:
As every person who's gone through Basic Military Training at BMTC Tekong knows, enlistees are asked to complete an Express Interest (EI) Survey that asks them whether they would or would not like to be a commander during their period in National Service.
OCs and PCs in BMT have often been reported to have persuaded (sometimes quite forcefully) their recruits to select "Yes" to be a commander. At times, PCs and OCs may use peer pressure to get recruits to select "Yes". On other occasions, officers may even use near-intimidation by asking all who intend to select "No" to see them repeatedly until they are assured the answer will be "Yes".
My question is:
[b]Is this Ethical? Are BMT commanders keeping their recruit's welfare and wellbeing in mind when they do this?
I ask this because now that I'm in a command school, I've come across a few trainees who SHOULD have and WANTED to select "No" but didn't do so because of similar persuasion. These trainees suffer more than the rest of us and most eventually find ways to OOC anyway.
What is the highest rank an NSF specialist can be promoted to? Some people said it is second sergeant n first sergeant.
What are your views on this?[/b] -
highest rank is 2nd sgt duing NSF days. You'll only get the 2SG rank provided thatOriginally posted by will4:
1) You passed out of Platoon Sergeant Course
2) You have already held the 3SG rank for a year..
considering NSF life = 2years. Getting a 3SG takes 8mths fastest. It'll be 1 year 8mths before you get 2SG. Tell me how to get 1SG. -
What about for the service side? I remebered there is an assistant chief clerk course n servicemen can be promoted to second sergeant after completing.Originally posted by ignorantsoup:highest rank is 2nd sgt duing NSF days. You'll only get the 2SG rank provided that
1) You passed out of Platoon Sergeant Course
2) You have already held the 3SG rank for a year..
considering NSF life = 2years. Getting a 3SG takes 8mths fastest. It'll be 1 year 8mths before you get 2SG. Tell me how to get 1SG. -
yes, you CAN get to 1SG.
Provided you pass on in the line of duty. SAF will always promote you 1 rank up.
Like PTE => LCP, or LCP=>CPL, if they pass on. 
Having said that, touch wood!!..pui~~~.......its CNY! 
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Well, being enthusiastic in wanting to be a commander doesn't that imply confidence? I mean seriously, look at those quiet types, though some have hidden talents. Some are really ah guas!Originally posted by LazerLordz:Usually those that are very enthusiastic in wanting to be a commander, end up as a man.
It's interesting to note that in my BMT platoon and coy, those who were wayang kings and fitness gurus, ended up as men while the silent types who got things done, ended up in OCS, Guards Spec Conv.Course and yes, even three of us OOC personnel ended up in non-combat specialist courses.
Strange but true.If you brag and wayang your way, you won't get there.
But can anyone explain, what's wrong with being enthu? And also, aren't the new batch of OCS potentials having to go through SISPEC before heading up? -
Enthusiasm is not the issue. The issue if selection based on who makes the most noise. I think that is silly and am glad that LL's batch is different from mine.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Well, being enthusiastic in wanting to be a commander doesn't that imply confidence? I mean seriously, look at those quiet types, though some have hidden talents. Some are really ah guas!
But can anyone explain, what's wrong with being enthu? And also, aren't the new batch of OCS potentials having to go through SISPEC before heading up?
As i said before, the officers of today no longer have to stand at the top of a fire trench, wave his sword around and shout "tally HO! CHARGE!". The days of officers leading a cavalry charge on a white stallion are largely over.
The officers of today are more planners and managers than anything else. They have to motivate, but motivation doesn't come from some silly person shouting "YOU CAN DO IT!" - BUggeration does.
That there is no test of planning ability and multitasking in the selection of officers is an indictment on the quality of SAF officers.
On the point of confidence, yes it is quite important but there is a line between foolhardiness and confidence. Any idiot can go "COME ON! LEt's go!". The good leader will instead keep a clear head and decide on what is the best course of action, deferring his authority if neccessary.
I certainly do not want to be led by someone who, w/o a moment's thought, tells his men to wade across a river. I want someone who will scout for a safer crossing point, eg maybe a fallen tree trunk. -
My batch still had direct entry to OCS, and there are many cases of many officers who lack the ability to lead effectively and instil a real sense of purpose and passion in his men.Originally posted by lwflee:Enthusiasm is not the issue. The issue if selection based on who makes the most noise. I think that is silly and am glad that LL's batch is different from mine.
As i said before, the officers of today no longer have to stand at the top of a fire trench, wave his sword around and shout "tally HO! CHARGE!". The days of officers leading a cavalry charge on a white stallion are largely over.
The officers of today are more planners and managers than anything else. They have to motivate, but motivation doesn't come from some silly person shouting "YOU CAN DO IT!" - BUggeration does.
That there is no test of planning ability and multitasking in the selection of officers is an indictment on the quality of SAF officers.
On the point of confidence, yes it is quite important but there is a line between foolhardiness and confidence. Any idiot can go "COME ON! LEt's go!". The good leader will instead keep a clear head and decide on what is the best course of action, deferring his authority if neccessary.
I certainly do not want to be led by someone who, w/o a moment's thought, tells his men to wade across a river. I want someone who will scout for a safer crossing point, eg maybe a fallen tree trunk.
I'm glad its back to a system where they have to be judged by SISPEC first.