ON THE ISSUE OF WHETHER TO ENLIST BEFORE OR AFTER UNIVERSITY
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Dear Fellow Forumites,
firstly I hope everyone has had a good New Year and thoroughly enjoyed themselves.
I just thought I might share my views on a topic that might be of interest to some or if not most who are going to enlist for National Service in the future. It could also be of interest to those who are currently in National Service or already completed.
That topic is about whether to enlist for NS before or after going for further studies/education which usually means going to the university.
I will be the first to admit that there are advantages and disadvantages in both situations. I shall use this message to state the advantages of completing National Service first before going for further studies and also would like to state that I think the advantages of completing National Service first outweigh the advantages of doing it after finishing with studies. Stated below are the good points/pros of doing National Service first.
1. There is the fun of bragging to other students about your army exploits and adventures, especially to those who come from countries where there is no compulsion to serve in the military.
2. Being able to hunt for a job right after completing uni instead of delaying 2 years (and last time 2.5 years) after graduation to complete National Service. The job market can change a lot in 2 years and what was learnt in university can become quickly irrelevant especially in fast changing and developing industries.
3. Being more matured and responsible to tackle challenges. After having gone through NS one would have more maturity and resolve to tackle the challenges in life and be more determined to overcome life's obstacles which would be good especially for those going to unis overseas to study. They would have more sense of independence and be able to survive and succeed without help and company from family and parents. Surviving and doing well overseas requires a certain level of maturity and emotional quotient.
4. Because one would be older than most of the other fellow students entering university at the same time, one can act as a bigger/elder brother to them.
5. Having less control over oneself by the government. From what I know getting exit permit and permission to go overseas is more difficult and stringent than Reservist. And I also know from last time (it might not be applicable at present and I am not aware if the rules have changed) those who got deferment also have to comply to more regulations like sending their exam results to Mindef, among other controls.
6. It will be a monkey off ones back and load off ones shoulders, knowing one has completed NS and not having to worry any more about it for life. (Except for Reservist of course.)
7. Being older than most of the girls, especially the 'newbies' meaning those who just entered university. Normally girls like older and more matured guys!
They could also possibly look up to guys who have done NS as being more matured in their outlook.
8. No need to pay security bond to government. Family might have to obtain an overdraft from bank to pay for the bond and it can cost a lot in terms of
interest, bank charges and transaction fees.
The only downside I can think of at present is having to get back to the mood to study after a 2 year layoff and having to revise through study material again. With grit and determination which hopefully one would have acquired after NS that would not be too difficult.
Just my views and if anyone wishes to add on to my points please do so. And if anyone can think of advantages of completing NS first before studies please do add in your views.
Thanks!
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after..
ensures a place in OCS...
cfm gurentee + chop! -
was thinking of same thing.Originally posted by BaByBoY:after..
ensures a place in OCS...
cfm gurentee + chop!
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I did my degree before NS, I did not end up in OCS.Originally posted by BaByBoY:after..
ensures a place in OCS...
cfm gurentee + chop!
My platoon mate did LAW degree before NS. End up as Medic.
Anyway to answer your poster's question. It really depends what you are studying.
For me, i am trying to get back to what i have studied, I FORGOT all my finance formulas!!
I only briefly read thru your post... i will get back to it later and answer more. -
[/i]Originally posted by THE ANALYST:1. There is the fun of bragging to other students about your army exploits and adventures, especially to those who come from countries where there is no compulsion to serve in the military.
Yup its fun, but it's only a one day affair. afterwhich, they are simply not interested. it's not something girls will go ga-ga over. especially in "human rights" country. they sometimes even see you as "weak" for not going against the govt.
2. Being able to hunt for a job right after completing uni instead of delaying 2 years (and last time 2.5 years) after graduation to complete National Service. The job market can change a lot in 2 years and what was learnt in university can become quickly irrelevant especially in fast changing and developing industries.
mainly a myth, you don't really use what you learn in uni for work. place the relevancy is not that great. Uni syllabus don't change that often either. The job market changes, but your qualification can still be valid for short 2-3 years
3. Being more matured and responsible to tackle challenges. After having gone through NS one would have more maturity and resolve to tackle the challenges in life and be more determined to overcome life's obstacles which would be good especially for those going to unis overseas to study. They would have more sense of independence and be able to survive and succeed without help and company from family and parents. Surviving and doing well overseas requires a certain level of maturity and emotional quotient.
VERY TRUE!!! but you will be overwhelmed with immature superiors whom you LPPL must listen to. For my case, all my seniors during my trainee stage are younger than me and less knowledgeable but i still gotta listen to them even though i might have a better way of getting thigns done
If you gone NS first, you will notice the level of determination and the type of determination required is different. You can tell yourself to run 10km anytime, but you can't make yourself read 10 chapters at one go
4. Because one would be older than most of the other fellow students entering university at the same time, one can act as a bigger/elder brother to them.
if you are thinking of going overseas. this doesn't happen. you may have classmates old enough to be your dad, in singapore, all the guys will be the same age
5. Having less control over oneself by the government. From what I know getting exit permit and permission to go overseas is more difficult and stringent than Reservist. And I also know from last time (it might not be applicable at present and I am not aware if the rules have changed) those who got deferment also have to comply to more regulations like sending their exam results to Mindef, among other controls.
yes, CMPB makes it a pain in the ass for you to pursue your degree to the point it gets stressful. Do you know you must enter uni before you are 17.5 years old? if you plan to complete "O" levels and born before April, you have quite a slim chance. even after you enter uni, you cannot extend your course of studies unless you got good reasons like accident or personal circumstances
6. It will be a monkey off ones back and load off ones shoulders, knowing one has completed NS and not having to worry any more about it for life. (Except for Reservist of course.)
like point number 5
7. Being older than most of the girls, especially the 'newbies' meaning those who just entered university. Normally girls like older and more matured guys! They could also possibly look up to guys who have done NS as being more matured in their outlook.
applicable to singapore only
8. No need to pay security bond to government. Family might have to obtain an overdraft from bank to pay for the bond and it can cost a lot in terms of
interest, bank charges and transaction fees.
yes, $75000 or 50% of parents combined income, whichever greater, that has a 1.5% service charge per renewal
The only downside I can think of at present is having to get back to the mood to study after a 2 year layoff and having to revise through study material again. With grit and determination which hopefully one would have acquired after NS that would not be too difficult.
Just my views and if anyone wishes to add on to my points please do so. And if anyone can think of advantages of completing NS first before studies please do add in your views.
Thanks! -
local degree?Originally posted by Ponders:I did my degree before NS, I did not end up in OCS.
My platoon mate did LAW degree before NS. End up as Medic.
Anyway to answer your poster's question. It really depends what you are studying.
For me, i am trying to get back to what i have studied, I FORGOT all my finance formulas!!
I only briefly read thru your post... i will get back to it later and answer more. -
i knew a guy with a us degree in economics who became a tech.
another with degree in some engineering field that become a clerk.
though i agree about the independence thing. having to sleep with multiple men every night, i now have no qualms about taking a dorm to be shared by 6 people. before NS, when i went to my china classmates' homes and realised that 6 or more people shared the same room, i honestly felt kinda disgusted.
you learn to tolerate each other's weird habits, make space for each other, make use of whatever space you have. and clean up your own shit. it's different from sharing a room with a sibling, if you're older, you have the authority to chase them out
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Unless you sign on. it's impossible to get local degree before NS.Originally posted by BaByGeR:local degree? -
Speaking from experience:
1. There is the fun of bragging to other students about your army exploits and adventures, especially to those who come from countries where there is no compulsion to serve in the military.
Disagree. Pfft - it's over and done with, and now you've got bigger fish to fry.
2. Being able to hunt for a job right after completing uni instead of delaying 2 years (and last time 2.5 years) after graduation to complete National Service. The job market can change a lot in 2 years and what was learnt in university can become quickly irrelevant especially in fast changing and developing industries.
Agree. The clock's ticking on those qualifications, especially if you're planning to work in another country.
3. Being more matured and responsible to tackle challenges. After having gone through NS one would have more maturity and resolve to tackle the challenges in life and be more determined to overcome life's obstacles which would be good especially for those going to unis overseas to study. They would have more sense of independence and be able to survive and succeed without help and company from family and parents. Surviving and doing well overseas requires a certain level of maturity and emotional quotient.
Definitely agree, but only if you took the trouble to learn something from the experience instead of whinging that it's a waste of time.
4. Because one would be older than most of the other fellow students entering university at the same time, one can act as a bigger/elder brother to them.
Disagree. You've got enough on your plate getting up and running as quickly as possible, so do you think you have the time to carry someone else?
5. Having less control over oneself by the government. From what I know getting exit permit and permission to go overseas is more difficult and stringent than Reservist. And I also know from last time (it might not be applicable at present and I am not aware if the rules have changed) those who got deferment also have to comply to more regulations like sending their exam results to Mindef, among other controls.
Agree. The less bureaucrap you have to deal with, the better.
6. It will be a monkey off ones back and load off ones shoulders, knowing one has completed NS and not having to worry any more about it for life. (Except for Reservist of course.)
Agree. If you're working overseas after uni, you won't have to worry too much about reservist duties anyway.
7. Being older than most of the girls, especially the 'newbies' meaning those who just entered university. Normally girls like older and more matured guys! They could also possibly look up to guys who have done NS as being more matured in their outlook.
Disagree. If you're planning to do anything more than scraping by with a bachelor's degree, keep your eye on the ball and don't go wasting your time trying to impress the girls.
8. No need to pay security bond to government. Family might have to obtain an overdraft from bank to pay for the bond and it can cost a lot in terms of
interest, bank charges and transaction fees.
Agree. See point 5.
The only downside I can think of at present is having to get back to the mood to study after a 2 year layoff and having to revise through study material again. With grit and determination which hopefully one would have acquired after NS that would not be too difficult.
Disagree. During NS, boring missions like LRRP gave me time to revise and assess what I did wrong in secondary school and JC, and work out ways to correct it, which I applied at uni. After NS, I started uni with more motivation and competitive spirit than I ever had in school. Started out with a string of Distinctions and High Distinctions and never looked back. -
agree with gedanken. i spent a lot of time in NS reflecting on what i want to do after ORD, and am putting in a lot of effort trying to achieve it. time is what you make of it. you can be like everyone else and sleep between every short break, or you can spend that time studying, or reading up.
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Amazing .. so Ged brought his revision books outfield?
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jsut some points to reconsider:Originally posted by THE ANALYST:Dear Fellow Forumites,
firstly I hope everyone has had a good New Year and thoroughly enjoyed themselves.
I just thought I might share my views on a topic that might be of interest to some or if not most who are going to enlist for National Service in the future. It could also be of interest to those who are currently in National Service or already completed.
That topic is about whether to enlist for NS before or after going for further studies/education which usually means going to the university.
I will be the first to admit that there are advantages and disadvantages in both situations. I shall use this message to state the advantages of completing National Service first before going for further studies and also would like to state that I think the advantages of completing National Service first outweigh the advantages of doing it after finishing with studies. Stated below are the good points/pros of doing National Service first.
1. There is the fun of bragging to other students about your army exploits and adventures, especially to those who come from countries where there is no compulsion to serve in the military.
2. Being able to hunt for a job right after completing uni instead of delaying 2 years (and last time 2.5 years) after graduation to complete National Service. The job market can change a lot in 2 years and what was learnt in university can become quickly irrelevant especially in fast changing and developing industries.
3. Being more matured and responsible to tackle challenges. After having gone through NS one would have more maturity and resolve to tackle the challenges in life and be more determined to overcome life's obstacles which would be good especially for those going to unis overseas to study. They would have more sense of independence and be able to survive and succeed without help and company from family and parents. Surviving and doing well overseas requires a certain level of maturity and emotional quotient.
4. Because one would be older than most of the other fellow students entering university at the same time, one can act as a bigger/elder brother to them.
5. Having less control over oneself by the government. From what I know getting exit permit and permission to go overseas is more difficult and stringent than Reservist. And I also know from last time (it might not be applicable at present and I am not aware if the rules have changed) those who got deferment also have to comply to more regulations like sending their exam results to Mindef, among other controls.
6. It will be a monkey off ones back and load off ones shoulders, knowing one has completed NS and not having to worry any more about it for life. (Except for Reservist of course.)
7. Being older than most of the girls, especially the 'newbies' meaning those who just entered university. Normally girls like older and more matured guys! They could also possibly look up to guys who have done NS as being more matured in their outlook.
8. No need to pay security bond to government. Family might have to obtain an overdraft from bank to pay for the bond and it can cost a lot in terms of
interest, bank charges and transaction fees.
The only downside I can think of at present is having to get back to the mood to study after a 2 year layoff and having to revise through study material again. With grit and determination which hopefully one would have acquired after NS that would not be too difficult.
Just my views and if anyone wishes to add on to my points please do so. And if anyone can think of advantages of completing NS first before studies please do add in your views.
Thanks!
firstly bragging rights is pretty insignificant and also you might just be stuck at the office the whole 2.5 years....
you seem to have an overly positive view of ns. does it really make a person more mature??? i does it really allow one to acquire the grit and determination??
btw the stuff we are studying now are outdated already anyway. thisis what the prof told me and i find it true, "what we teach you or what is printed in the text is already 3 to 4 years out of date at least. some of the facts are in fact wrong. in truth the material in the text is even out of date before it gets printed." -
Nah, I thought about the way I approached my school work, covering things like my approach to homework and exams, time management, the level of enthusiasm I actually had for what I was studying, the things that distracted me from my work. Basically, all the things you can think about while waiting for three days for a certain land rover to drive past.Originally posted by Icemoon:Amazing .. so Ged brought his revision books outfield?
That said, Tom Clancy novels fit quite nicely into the side pouches of an ALICE pack. -
Obviously I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself the answer is certainly yes. The work I did in NS certainly didn't produce instant results, and it was a case of plugging away until something happened (e.g. going through the various phases of training until reaching the end). The same applies to study - things generally don't happen until you finish that semester and the results come out. In the meantime, I was already used to pushing constantly until I reached that end point.Originally posted by hisoka:you seem to have an overly positive view of ns. does it really make a person more mature??? i does it really allow one to acquire the grit and determination??
One handy side effect of NS was that I picked up the ability to charlie mike for a few days at a stretch. Throughout my undergrad years, I revised for 72 hours straight before exams, with the occasional 15-minute nap in between. That kept all the information fresh in my head until I could dump it all on the exam paper. -
heheh i really did thatOriginally posted by Icemoon:Amazing .. so Ged brought his revision books outfield? 
half my fieldpack's weight were from books. -
you have to understand that when you speak of such an advantage you should have to push points which at least apply to the majority if not the vast majority. otherwise your advantage would just be a random minority benefit that has no real bearing on the issue.Originally posted by Gedanken:Obviously I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself the answer is certainly yes. The work I did in NS certainly didn't produce instant results, and it was a case of plugging away until something happened (e.g. going through the various phases of training until reaching the end). The same applies to study - things generally don't happen until you finish that semester and the results come out. In the meantime, I was already used to pushing constantly until I reached that end point.
One handy side effect of NS was that I picked up the ability to charlie mike for a few days at a stretch. Throughout my undergrad years, I revised for 72 hours straight before exams, with the occasional 15-minute nap in between. That kept all the information fresh in my head until I could dump it all on the exam paper. -
Is that right, now? Do tell, do tell.Originally posted by hisoka:you have to understand that when you speak of such an advantage you should have to push points which at least apply to the majority if not the vast majority. otherwise your advantage would just be a random minority benefit that has no real bearing on the issue.
Do Guardsmen, infantrymen, engineers, medics, snipers, signallers, MILAN gunners, mortarmen, aircrewmen, technicians and cooks not undergo training? Do they not have to plod along in the course and work towards the result of qualification?
The main answer was in the first paragraph. As for the second, all things being equal, anybody who's served in a combat vocation would have an endurance advantage over a fellow student fresh out of high school (although it may not involve 72-hour revision stretches). Are you saying that combat vocations are a vast minority in the SAF?