Should SAF issue bullet-proof vests?
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Hmmm...whats the need for all these when Sg not gonna have war ever.....plus...Nowadays spec trainee can lose M16 during training....dun see any aid in issuing extra stuff
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dun think theres any brains in SAF actually...all wayang oneOriginally posted by Nelstar:Anyway, we're doing what we do best.
All talk no walk. I believe there are enough military brains in SAF to determine what we use or will be using.
What we say here, is for discussion sake.
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Because whilst you may be dispensable, I am notOriginally posted by Gedanken:And what's a REMF need BA for?
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Yuh huh, under the current government you just keep telling yourself that. Who knows, it might come true someday.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Because whilst you may be dispensable, I am not
Besides, you're not thinking this one through - less useless gear spent on you means it's easier for me to call in an airstrike on the front lines and keep your indispensable arse safe. -
Hey, just calling it as I see it.Originally posted by Hellraiza:LOL nice build up prior to the stinger. -
It should not be a standard issue equip.Originally posted by LazerLordz:I think your trend goes against the whole world at the moment.
Armor is an essential in heavy ops.
Special OPs, yes. Special Units, yes, peacekeeping, sure, build-up area fighting, of course.. but long distance/period jungle warfare?
I promise that you won't like to be a guardsman if they are going to issue more and more equipment.
Imagine you're getting down the ropes... with additional weight.. Yea, i understand they need it more, but they won't really agree with that. Rappelling with additional weight = more likely to become mincemeat. -
Of course it has to be mission specific. But in today's climate, if we go to war, FIBUA and peace keeping looks almost certain. Does that not justify training combat soldiers in the use of BA? You do not need to wear it EVERYWHERE, but I think combat soldiers need at least some experience of operating whilst wearing BA.
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Would you really want to have a war in singapore?Originally posted by zictool:Hmmm...whats the need for all these when Sg not gonna have war ever.....plus...Nowadays spec trainee can lose M16 during training....dun see any aid in issuing extra stuff -
Actually a good example to look at in regards to BA use is Vietnam.
The Americans had lots of "flak jackets" and I'm sure the seals, special forces could have gotten their hands on them if they wanted to, but many if not most or the special warfare units choose not to wear it. It probably just added too much weight, too much heat and restricted movement.
Perhaps if you are on a peacekeeping mission, patroling in an urban enviroment after you supposedly have control of the city, i.e. Iraq, Northen Ireland, etc or fighting from a fairly fixed position i.e. river boat patrol, then the BA is a great to have.
But since the majority of SAF training is still jungle geared... Besides, if people are already complaing about the heat from the new load carrying vests, can you imagine adding armour on top of it? -
It also means more 1206s.
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Perhaps the BA should be made Standard Issue, and Inserts being mission specific. I mean hell,quite alot stand on the side that no BA is required as bullets can defeat it.But has anyone realised that the moment the first rounds pass over your head, you would pray for helmet,BA, Ballistic shield or whatever that can give you some protection. It may be psychological, but war is also 1/2 the time psychological. So if your men are so steady and raring to go, what is a little BA to heighten them up more?
Jungle Mission or not, these days, SEALs, SF and all do wear BA. Look at Afghan, Iraq.If one of the world's best militaries issue BA to them, why not we issue them too? After all, the sum spent on BA is worth its weight in gold once the 1st rounds fly over our heads. -
Oh no..I have thought through this well....gear spent on some other people are certainly useless, not me though...Originally posted by Gedanken:Besides, you're not thinking this one through - less useless gear spent on you means it's easier for me to call in an airstrike on the front lines and keep your indispensable arse safe. -
Vests are issued based on missions. There are units using them if needed, including reservist infantry units (I won't go into specific details). Until there are newer technologies available, vests are still not practical enough for all missions in a tropical context. Even in Brunei, we didn't use helmets for jungle warfare (train as we fight?).
From reading the posts here - I wonder how many actually did their service in combat units. -
Did i gather that the threadstarter was a REMF?
Not exactly frontline, but if they were to find themselves in a similar position as the Americans [ie. logistical supply route routinely attacked], perhaps theyd be justified in being issued BA.
Being issued BA is always going to be mission specific as i've always said. -
On the first point, to achieve that state you may as well train your men with live ammo, like the Taiwanese used to. Let's face it, everybody with half a brain puckers up when the rounds start flying, BA or not. You'd be better off training your men to keep their heads under real fire (not that it's something I would advocate too strongly, but just for argument's sake).Originally posted by SpecOps87:Perhaps the BA should be made Standard Issue, and Inserts being mission specific. I mean hell,quite alot stand on the side that no BA is required as bullets can defeat it.But has anyone realised that the moment the first rounds pass over your head, you would pray for helmet,BA, Ballistic shield or whatever that can give you some protection. It may be psychological, but war is also 1/2 the time psychological. So if your men are so steady and raring to go, what is a little BA to heighten them up more?
Jungle Mission or not, these days, SEALs, SF and all do wear BA. Look at Afghan, Iraq.If one of the world's best militaries issue BA to them, why not we issue them too? After all, the sum spent on BA is worth its weight in gold once the 1st rounds fly over our heads.
As for the second point, I believe BA issue is still mission-specific. As a case in point, can you imagine a SEAL with his rebreather, all his gear AND a BA to boot? -
Oh, silly, silly me - there I was thinking you were there to do a job. I do apologise for not recognising the SAF's obligation to serve you hand and foot.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Oh no..I have thought through this well....gear spent on some other people are certainly useless, not me though...
Sadly, the SAF is remiss in not recognising a lot of items as SOP - in the event, you may as well organise your own BA, dental floss and rubber duckie. Then again, at the rate you're going, I'd question your ability to organise a urine sample in a golden shower. -
Honestly, with BA, I would rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.
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Wow.. You sum it up the best.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Honestly, with BA, I would rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.
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Fair enough, but just keep in mind that mission requirementy is not the order of the day for nothing.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Honestly, with BA, I would rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it. -
If brainless imbecile like you want to flame me, you can PM me....there is no need for others to have to tolerate your nonsense.Originally posted by Gedanken:Oh, silly, silly me - there I was thinking you were there to do a job. I do apologise for not recognising the SAF's obligation to serve you hand and foot.
Sadly, the SAF is remiss in not recognising a lot of items as SOP - in the event, you may as well organise your own BA, dental floss and rubber duckie. Then again, at the rate you're going, I'd question your ability to organise a urine sample in a golden shower. -
Aww, touched a nerve, did I?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:If brainless imbecile like you want to flame me, you can PM me....there is no need for others to have to tolerate your nonsense. If you want to start this "I'm so important, spend money on me" stuff, you'd better grow up and be prepared for people to do something other than quietly listen to your obnoxious crap.
Fact of the matter is that even if the SAF did take to issuing BAs, it'll be a long time before you catch sight of one. The lads on the front line would need it a helluva lot more than you do. They're there to do the key work, and you're there to clean up the mess, so you may as well get used to the janitor's role. -
I smell smoke...
Body Armor cannot be part of standard issue. Cos its a controlled equipment. End of story.
When there is a need for it, ur unit will find someway to issue u guys one.
Imagine the phucker who shot that guy in his house had his SAF helmet + Body Armor on when Malaysian police raided him. The Malaysian Police would be cursing n swearing! (im assuming that guy was Singaporean *note "was" cos he's gonna be so dead soon.) -
like what other level-headed forumites here have said, SAF will issue you bullet proof vests if you are deployed for ops or are doing something dangerous like clearing blinds
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When you're clearing blinds, you want something better than bulletproof vest. Trust me.Originally posted by 12qwaszx:like what other level-headed forumites here have said, SAF will issue you bullet proof vests if you are deployed for ops or are doing something dangerous like clearing blinds -
How about some distance...Originally posted by Nelstar:When you're clearing blinds, you want something better than bulletproof vest. Trust me. 