Army Boys love to sing
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i remembered during bmt we deliberately sang damn loudly when marched pass sispec and sch 1 at midnight because sispec graduation march woke us up barely 30mins of sleeping after our BTP
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We will make it next Sunday. Confirm! And stamp chop!Originally posted by LazerLordz:Next Sunday's webthreads.
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7 BTS route march in 1992 dec ( forgot the actual date ) along those Yishun HDB area. We sang so loud till whole area resident rush out see wth happened and we also proud to have MP riders as escort.
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U editor of ST? how to chop ???Originally posted by Manager433:We will make it next Sunday. Confirm! And stamp chop! -
i highly doubt that.Originally posted by Manager433:We will make it next Sunday. Confirm! And stamp chop! -
Well said. There are definitely better places to march than the East Coast Park. No doubt recruit training is important, but residentÂ’s rest is equally important too! Without sufficient rest, how are they going to cope with school or work the next day?Originally posted by lwflee:The analogy is not entirely accurate. Loud, audible sirens are neccessary to ensure prompt response time, prevent accidents and help save lives (coz when the gangsters hear the siren all run away!
).
Singing when on a route march is not neccessary. Sure, it boosts morale, etc, but noone is going to die for want of a song. On balance, the inconvenience to hundreds of residents would clearly outweigh the inconvenience done to the marching soldiers. After all, they can sing on other legs of the march. They could also march elsewhere, away from residential areas. Woe be to the one who tells me there is no where else to march. That is utter and complete bollocks.
I also do not think the apology is dumb. Why -not- apologise? I was under the impression that you apologise not only when you've done wrong, but also when you've inconvenienced someone; it is only polite. In this case, there is no doubt that someone was inconvenienced.
The only problem i have with his reply is that he has not asked the public for understanding. He was on the defensive thoughout.
Personally, I am quite puzzled why the ECP was chosen for route marches in the first place. To me, itÂ’s a public recreational area more suitable for leisurely walks. If we are really serious about building up recruitsÂ’ stamina, a rougher terrain should be chosen. How about Bukit Timah Nature Reserve? ItÂ’d be more challenging than the ECP.
I noticed thereÂ’s a fair bit of vulgarities used throughout the discussion. To those guys out there who are habitually hurling verbal abuse in vulgar language: may I know if using vulgarities is also part of your military training??? IMHO, Singapore would be better protected by civilized citizens. Vulgarities certainly do not help to keep out enemies!
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Do route marches happen everyday?
I highly suspect that you have no grounds for a gripe-fest, because they are clearly not an irritant.So, if your one night is disrupted by some marching, it doesn't mean other sounds do and will not wake you up either.
Face it, those reasons are bordering on the specious and although I believe that a good night's rest is important, your insinuation that these route marches are of a daily nature and that they will have an adverse impact on the sleeping habits of residents quite implausible.The frequency is not strong enough at all.
Hurling of vulgarities is not something to be proud of, but they never hurt anyone.Welcome to the real world. -
Excuse me S'pore where got tough terrain.....anyway If i'm not wrong BT hill is close during that time also it's a up one direction down the same direction. Usually these route march are conducted in with the starting and ending point the same. As for the vulgarities, I mean if a soldier cannot tahan people scolding vulgarities to him how can he fight the enemies. It's only words not action.Originally posted by cancion:Well said. There are definitely better places to march than the East Coast Park. No doubt recruit training is important, but residentÂ’s rest is equally important too! Without sufficient rest, how are they going to cope with school or work the next day?
Personally, I am quite puzzled why the ECP was chosen for route marches in the first place. To me, itÂ’s a public recreational area more suitable for leisurely walks. If we are really serious about building up recruitsÂ’ stamina, a rougher terrain should be chosen. How about Bukit Timah Nature Reserve? ItÂ’d be more challenging than the ECP.
I noticed thereÂ’s a fair bit of vulgarities used throughout the discussion. To those guys out there who are habitually hurling verbal abuse in vulgar language: may I know if using vulgarities is also part of your military training??? IMHO, Singapore would be better protected by civilized citizens. Vulgarities certainly do not help to keep out enemies! -
Lorong Asrama would do nicely. The loooooong road on the boundaries of Changi airport, though not very hilly, is also ideal. The entire Lim Chu kang area is good for marching as well. Another place would be the mandai area. The officers could always indent vehicles to transport the soldiers.Not difficult at all. As you can see, there are plenty of training areas for soldiers to march in. At these places, you can scream however loud and however long you want, no one is going to complain. I have been woken quite a few times whilst at SISPEC by people on route marches. But I have never really complained because tekong is a training area.Originally posted by tarutaru:Excuse me S'pore where got tough terrain.....anyway If i'm not wrong BT hill is close during that time also it's a up one direction down the same direction. Usually these route march are conducted in with the starting and ending point the same. As for the vulgarities, I mean if a soldier cannot tahan people scolding vulgarities to him how can he fight the enemies. It's only words not action.
There is a time and place for everything. Now, if you are going to march in Public, then you must be expected to act within the boundaries of common decency and in accordance with the principles of neighbourliness.
I dun get the point about vulgarities though. Whether or not a soldier is vulgar has no bearing on his operational capability. -
If you yourself have not served NS,how would you know personally if singing is neccessary or not.For me and people who served together with me during our BMT,we know that it was very helpful as it really boast morale and take our mind of the fatigue.Originally posted by cancion:Well said. There are definitely better places to march than the East Coast Park. No doubt recruit training is important, but residentÂ’s rest is equally important too! Without sufficient rest, how are they going to cope with school or work the next day?
Personally, I am quite puzzled why the ECP was chosen for route marches in the first place. To me, itÂ’s a public recreational area more suitable for leisurely walks. If we are really serious about building up recruitsÂ’ stamina, a rougher terrain should be chosen. How about Bukit Timah Nature Reserve? ItÂ’d be more challenging than the ECP.
I noticed thereÂ’s a fair bit of vulgarities used throughout the discussion. To those guys out there who are habitually hurling verbal abuse in vulgar language: may I know if using vulgarities is also part of your military training??? IMHO, Singapore would be better protected by civilized citizens. Vulgarities certainly do not help to keep out enemies!
And do you even understand what the hell is call basic military training aka the BMT phase that these recruit are going under? The recruit just came in from being civilians and it is already a culture shock so bmt should not be excessive tough.(but i can assure you that when they are in combat unit and already more suited to the combat lifestyle,we do long flanking walk in jungle terrain) ECP maybe suitable for leisurely walk but it is certainly not leisurely when you are loaded with Full Combat Order of about 20+kg.
And as per what the above forumer posted,route marches are not an everyday event,heck it not even a monthly event.More like once in 3 months for this ECP route march.So such infreqency can even disturb civilians everyday until they can't perform?What next? Ambulance siren should not be there cos an once in a while emergency happen and the siren is raised,aircraft should be mindful of their noise level (being that ECP is near to the airport).Every infrequent and random event should be complained upon to satisfy such a resident.Hello we live in a real world,there cannot be perfection so you will have to try and conform to these inperfection instead of complaining about everything.
Yeah vulgarities.True that it is certainly not good in a civilise world.But NS is a different world from the normally civilised outside(we are call soldiers inside not civilians).And if you even bother to think about it,it is neccessary to mentally train up the guys.If you fight in a real war and is capture or something,do you think that the enemy will talk to you in a nice manner.If our men cannot even tolerate normal verbal vulgarities thrown at them during peace time,what makes you think they can withstand vulgarities couple with a beating up throw at them by the enemy.They will break down easily and what ? cry infront of their capturers and giving all sorta info out?Do you really want such a Kuniang army to protect your ass? This shows that you completed do not understand anything about the Army and should not even have attempted to come comment on this.
You are just the typical singaporean , too well protected from the harsh reality of life that you think some random infrequent disturbances should be an acted upon to complain and whine about. -
You, like many others here, have made too much of the complaint. What is wrong with complaining in this instance? You say one night of disrupted sleep should be tolerated. But if there wasn't a complaint, would there be a 2nd, 3rd and 4th time? In fact, in my experience, once a route had been checked out, and planned for, commanders usually prefer to reuse that route in future because then they do not have to recce the route, look for the best route to the hospital, water points, potential danger areas, etc, etc. Chances are that had there not been a complaint, the route would be used again, and again and again.Originally posted by Aveme:And as per what the above forumer posted,route marches are not an everyday event,heck it not even a monthly event.More like once in 3 months for this ECP route march.So such infreqency can even disturb civilians everyday until they can't perform?What next? Ambulance siren should not be there cos an once in a while emergency happen and the siren is raised,aircraft should be mindful of their noise level (being that ECP is near to the airport).Every infrequent and random event should be complained upon to satisfy such a resident.Hello we live in a real world,there cannot be perfection so you will have to try and conform to these inperfection instead of complaining about everything.
I suspect alot of the animosity here is due to the perception that the soldiers invovled may very well be punished. If so, I hope that Mindef would not be so stupid, but I recognise that disciplinary action may very well have been taken. Coz this is the army and this is the way the army does things.
But she is clearly not at fault. She can't have known how the army works. She is a civilian who doesn't know better. She was inconvenienced, she acted on it to try and prevent it from ever happening again. She did not say "punish those soldiers". Neither did she say "Ban those soldiers from using ECP". I do not detect any intention on her part for our soldiers to be punished for such a slight mistake. -
Nope, we did not get punished at all. At the most, maybe my CO/S3 got a bit of flak from the higher brass for that, but no one else got penalised for that incident.Originally posted by lwflee:You, like many others here, have made too much of the complaint. What is wrong with complaining in this instance? You say one night of disrupted sleep should be tolerated. But if there wasn't a complaint, would there be a 2nd, 3rd and 4th time? In fact, in my experience, once a route had been checked out, and planned for, commanders usually prefer to reuse that route in future because then they do not have to recce the route, look for the best route to the hospital, water points, potential danger areas, etc, etc. Chances are that had there not been a complaint, the route would be used again, and again and again.
I suspect alot of the animosity here is due to the perception that the soldiers invovled may very well be punished. If so, I hope that Mindef would not be so stupid, but I recognise that disciplinary action may very well have been taken. Coz this is the army and this is the way the army does things.
But she is clearly not at fault. She can't have known how the army works. She is a civilian who doesn't know better. She was inconvenienced, she acted on it to try and prevent it from ever happening again. She did not say "punish those soldiers". Neither did she say "Ban those soldiers from using ECP". I do not detect any intention on her part for our soldiers to be punished for such a slight mistake.
Also, your point about reusing routes makes sense, but I'm afraid that unless there's some severe safety concerns/incidents, the SAF would most probably continue to use ECP from time to time as a route march training area. At most the marching troops would be told to silent march. -
calm down guys...
we r all fellow singaporeans n we understand the need for using public areas for training such as route marches.
y?
cos route marches cover quite a distance, it will be very boring if u conduct a 32km route march over a distance of 5 km, means u keep walking up n down the same route.
n oso singapore isnt as big as u tink it is...
from east to west is only 42km, commando's graduation march is 72km.
thus the need for usage of public areas for training arises...
y some particular units use east coast, y not lim chu kang areas?
let's say u r having a battalion route march n ur camp is in the east,
the time taken to plan, prepare n trooplift the battalion to lim chu kang areas will be a few hrs. a few hrs wasted... these few hrs can be better used such as giving the soldiers more rest time etc...
n if u noticed, lim chu kang areas r being used by our guys from armour.
they r conducting route marches there cos it's near their camp.
once again, bottomline is we try to conduct route marches in areas which r near our camps, convenient, easily accessible to hospitals etc...
all these r juz my own personal opinions, doesnt mean to offend anybody.
1 more thing... i nv did route march in east coast b4 too... -
The unit which got complained about is an armour unit.Originally posted by tetsumi:y some particular units use east coast, y not lim chu kang areas?
let's say u r having a battalion route march n ur camp is in the east,
the time taken to plan, prepare n trooplift the battalion to lim chu kang areas will be a few hrs. a few hrs wasted... these few hrs can be better used such as giving the soldiers more rest time etc...
n if u noticed, lim chu kang areas r being used by our guys from armour.
they r conducting route marches there cos it's near their camp.
once again, bottomline is we try to conduct route marches in areas which r near our camps, convenient, easily accessible to hospitals etc...
all these r juz my own personal opinions, doesnt mean to offend anybody.
1 more thing... i nv did route march in east coast b4 too... -
I got friends that walk ECP they are from guards,infantry and amour unit... Walking there fun lor,boost the morales of some pretty babes at the beach... Singing help too... Those who serve BMT in Tekong noe how mudune is the route march there... Oni singing and talking rubbish make the tiredness go away, c trees,deserted swimming pool,training grounds.. Then walking in the public got ppl supporting,some auntie or uncle doing their morning taichi cheered my frens on when they are doing overnight route march... Morale boosting sia...
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Good to see that the residents do appreciate the years we spent.Originally posted by gaoxingdcf:I got friends that walk ECP they are from guards,infantry and amour unit... Walking there fun lor,boost the morales of some pretty babes at the beach... Singing help too... Those who serve BMT in Tekong noe how mudune is the route march there... Oni singing and talking rubbish make the tiredness go away, c trees,deserted swimming pool,training grounds.. Then walking in the public got ppl supporting,some auntie or uncle doing their morning taichi cheered my frens on when they are doing overnight route march... Morale boosting sia... -
Anyway singing boost the morale of the soldier. Btw I'm sure they'll pass the place quite quickly at most 15 min . U only did not get to sleep for 15min those in route match did not get to sleep the whole night. Why not let it be? Complained to much for what. Also whenever there's a route march going on, I'm sure there is a ambulance on stand-by....if the route match take place in some ulu places u know how long does it take to evacuate.
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Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I heard about this "Army Boys singing" matter from my friends and would like to add something to the discussion.
During my time in NS (in the 90s), we used to march in Tekong and Lim Chu Kang areas and was quite interested to know SAF also conducted marches near residential areas.
I still remember we were repeatedly warned not to disturb the public and keep a low profile whenever we were out of the camp area either booking out or for exercises. I remembered one guy from my unit who kena extra duties for travelling on the MRT in full uniform and not giving up his seat for a pregnant lady in the same cabin. Thus I am very surprised to know that nowadays there is even singing during marches in the middle of the night and near residential areas.
May be i belonged to another generation and the SAF is now being called a 3rd generation army, but i still feel that it is not appropriate to sing loudly during marching especially near residential areas which might disturb the public. -
i think the public must give and take a bit if not thankful we got a bunch of ppl who do not want to be there anyway carrying heavy load & rifle while taking a measly amount of money every month doing an important job for our country. if a civilian's sleep is more important then conditioning our men for combat then our country have no chance in war.