R & D
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seems that the emphasis on regimentation and discipline is slowly but surely being diluted in the SAF now.
just a look at the conditions of the smart 4 of the recruits at pasir ris heralds the current age. alot of them really look more like enciks than recruits! and wouldnt we expect the recruit smart 4 to be the closest to "standard" (rivalled perhaps only be officer cadets and sispec trainees)?
and some in the force thinks time spent on drills and ceremonies can be better spent on training that is supposedly more relevant.
what is your take on this?
i personally feel that an armed forces without the proper level of R & D would have lost its soul, and some. what does it translate to in the battlefield? probably not much. but i think it does mean something in preventing our actual entering a battlefield, and how prepared we are if we need to go into one. -
no point making them fold the number 4 properly. not like its going to be of any use. neither does a properly folded smart 4 exactly look nicer than a fcuk 4.Originally posted by wuming78:seems that the emphasis on regimentation and discipline is slowly but surely being diluted in the SAF now.
just a look at the conditions of the smart 4 of the recruits at pasir ris heralds the current age. alot of them really look more like enciks than recruits! and wouldnt we expect the recruit smart 4 to be the closest to "standard" (rivalled perhaps only be officer cadets and sispec trainees)?
and some in the force thinks time spent on drills and ceremonies can be better spent on training that is supposedly more relevant.
what is your take on this?
i personally feel that an armed forces without the proper level of R & D would have lost its soul, and some. what does it translate to in the battlefield? probably not much. but i think it does mean something in preventing our actual entering a battlefield, and how prepared we are if we need to go into one.
regimentation may be useful but onyl to a certain extent. at the moment there is too much regimentation that is useless. -
aiya, as long as a soldier is good at the drills in his vocation, can already wat.
super nice smart 4 + super lousy drills = dead soldier
its all down to personal pride in the uniform every individual soldier wears. those who are proud to be in NS to defend the nation would fold it properly, polish boots, blah blah blah voluntarily.
those who dun give a damn, just dun give a damn. even if u force them to do all these, they'd do it reluctantly. coz to them, its just serve and f- off. so wats the point, right? 
lol... if only u see those reservists i saw...
no point making them fold the number 4 properly. not like its going to be of any use. neither does a properly folded smart 4 exactly look nicer than a fcuk 4. -
It's about how they feel inside wearing that uniform.Usually, the pride in it comes after they have graduated from a vocational course, or have gotten their hard-earned rank and promotion.Recruits in Basic, well, you can shout or yell, but the self-confidence and pride is not there yet.Originally posted by wuming78:seems that the emphasis on regimentation and discipline is slowly but surely being diluted in the SAF now.
just a look at the conditions of the smart 4 of the recruits at pasir ris heralds the current age. alot of them really look more like enciks than recruits! and wouldnt we expect the recruit smart 4 to be the closest to "standard" (rivalled perhaps only be officer cadets and sispec trainees)?
and some in the force thinks time spent on drills and ceremonies can be better spent on training that is supposedly more relevant.
what is your take on this?
i personally feel that an armed forces without the proper level of R & D would have lost its soul, and some. what does it translate to in the battlefield? probably not much. but i think it does mean something in preventing our actual entering a battlefield, and how prepared we are if we need to go into one.
I'm not worried too much about the regimentation in terms of uniform.As long there is an acceptable standard, it's fine.And to get them to wear the uniform proudly, they have to feel that it looks better and the public will not shun them on the trains etc.
Not easy. But guess that's how things are. -
in my opinion, how a person wears his uniform is not only a reflection of personal bearing and pride, but also that of his unit's emphasis - if the unit emphasises proper bearing, then in all likelihood the person will be wearing his uniform to the correct standards. same goes for other R & D related matters such as drills, commands, haircut, etc.
i cited the uniform only as an example. the main point is really what the force generally feels about the relevance of R & D, and how you all feel about it. -
I agree with you that a proper level of regimental discipline has to be maintain at all time. Discipline and bearing of our troopers are certainly reflective of how our armed forces project itself to the rest world, and possibly deter any potentially aggressor.
However, I am for operational discipline (OD) over regimental discipline (RD). Emphasis on the latter is no longer so much applicable over the former now as the battlefield strategy and doctrine have shifted away. Most importantly, operational discipline, readiness and teamwork win war, not regimental discipline.
Allocation of resources (time) is another aspect. Largely because we are a conscript force. As a commander of any strike or frontline unit, rightfully, the allocation for OD and RD in a time constrain space, very much should be tilted in favor of OD.
I am neither dismissing nor am I proposing to abolish RD but instead to give a more modern approach to warfare in the new era and how resources should be channelled more to training of troops where the resultant is a more impactful punch in the battlefield.
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personally, i think drills are an essential and indispensable aspect for any soldiers. it builds discipline, concentraction and endurance.
a soldier who is able to execute the commands given correctly, smartly and neatly just shows the level of discipline and professionalism he processes.
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discipline is very important
i wouldn't want a gun-slinging rambo in my section -
no idea about how true that is. but cant the commands be given in a more universally understood language?? not to be racist or what not but using malay is just dumb. why not use english so most pple can actually understand and not memorise?Originally posted by Gordonator:personally, i think drills are an essential and indispensable aspect for any soldiers. it builds discipline, concentraction and endurance.
a soldier who is able to execute the commands given correctly, smartly and neatly just shows the level of discipline and professionalism he processes.
but i do think operational readiness is the most important.
what i want to know is that the soldier are ready to combat and perfomr well in theit roles. if they can do that, they can all march in misstep and different directions for all i care. afterall parade soldier are just nice to look at but useless otherwise. any above idiot will know that. -
simply because ehh... malay is our national languageOriginally posted by hisoka:no idea about how true that is. but cant the commands be given in a more universally understood language?? not to be racist or what not but using malay is just dumb. why not use english so most pple can actually understand and not memorise?
but i do think operational readiness is the most important.
what i want to know is that the soldier are ready to combat and perfomr well in theit roles. if they can do that, they can all march in misstep and different directions for all i care. afterall parade soldier are just nice to look at but useless otherwise. any above idiot will know that.
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i think otherwise. not only must a soldier be proficient in combat skills, one must also be versatile, to able excel in the regimental aspect as well such as drills , how one wears the uniform and the way one carries oneself, which is what differeniate a soldier from a civilian.Originally posted by hisoka:what i want to know is that the soldier are ready to combat and perfomr well in theit roles. if they can do that, they can all march in misstep and different directions for all i care. afterall parade soldier are just nice to look at but useless otherwise. any above idiot will know that. -
unless that soldier is a 1 man army who can win a war by himself, otherwise, he'll have to do what the rest of the people in uniform do and not live by his own standardsOriginally posted by hisoka:no idea about how true that is. but cant the commands be given in a more universally understood language?? not to be racist or what not but using malay is just dumb. why not use english so most pple can actually understand and not memorise?
but i do think operational readiness is the most important.
what i want to know is that the soldier are ready to combat and perfomr well in theit roles. if they can do that, they can all march in misstep and different directions for all i care. afterall parade soldier are just nice to look at but useless otherwise. any above idiot will know that.
discipline contributes to operational readiness -
Discipline is mostly wayang. You show discipline only when they want to see it. But can you really discipline yourself and your life?Originally posted by 12qwaszx:unless that soldier is a 1 man army who can win a war by himself, otherwise, he'll have to do what the rest of the people in uniform do and not live by his own standards
discipline contributes to operational readiness
If no stand by area, will you pick up a broom and sweep the floor? Will you pull your bed at home also? -
Actually the new recruit standard smart 4 now is 4 fingers from the elbow line, not 4 fingers length...
i know it looks somewhat cock, i am an BMTC instructor and have the teach the new thing somemore... but what to do? -
did i say anything about no need discipline?? and we are talking about the army as a whole not the individual alone.Originally posted by 12qwaszx:unless that soldier is a 1 man army who can win a war by himself, otherwise, he'll have to do what the rest of the people in uniform do and not live by his own standards
discipline contributes to operational readiness -
r&d still need to maintain la, maybe not too much but at least to a certain standard... if not recruit all look like terrorist...Originally posted by wuming78:seems that the emphasis on regimentation and discipline is slowly but surely being diluted in the SAF now.
just a look at the conditions of the smart 4 of the recruits at pasir ris heralds the current age. alot of them really look more like enciks than recruits! and wouldnt we expect the recruit smart 4 to be the closest to "standard" (rivalled perhaps only be officer cadets and sispec trainees)?
and some in the force thinks time spent on drills and ceremonies can be better spent on training that is supposedly more relevant.
what is your take on this?
i personally feel that an armed forces without the proper level of R & D would have lost its soul, and some. what does it translate to in the battlefield? probably not much. but i think it does mean something in preventing our actual entering a battlefield, and how prepared we are if we need to go into one. -
good mah then pple dun dare attack us. cos they scared of terrorist after thatOriginally posted by BrUtUs:r&d still need to maintain la, maybe not too much but at least to a certain standard... if not recruit all look like terrorist... -
Really huh... as if recruits in public places don't already look sloppy enough. Totally no pride in their turnout.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Actually the new recruit standard smart 4 now is 4 fingers from the elbow line, not 4 fingers length...
i know it looks somewhat cock, i am an BMTC instructor and have the teach the new thing somemore... but what to do? -
what's the different?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Actually the new recruit standard smart 4 now is 4 fingers from the elbow line, not 4 fingers length...
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i think getting technicians to go for parade is a waste of time
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huge difference le! 4 fingers from elbow? that's so long!Originally posted by Gordonator:what's the different?
also... in the past, i used to qns the emphasize on uniform too. of cos, i believe in "tidy, neat" uniform. but sometimes, they are asking really too much.
then... i came across this article written by a retired british general. he said, how u look reflects how ur unit is. a well-disciplined unit will be "the best" in all. and they are the ones to send to battle and you can be sure of their commitments in it.
and especially for officers and leaders. how u look reflects wat situations we all (the soldiers) are in. if the officer looks "ok", then we are "ok". but, if that officer aren't in his/her best outift, men will suspect something is wrong and it will affect the morale. -
erm actually thats if the officer normally looks spick and span etc.Originally posted by acrunius:huge difference le! 4 fingers from elbow? that's so long!
also... in the past, i used to qns the emphasize on uniform too. of cos, i believe in "tidy, neat" uniform. but sometimes, they are asking really too much.
then... i came across this article written by a retired british general. he said, how u look reflects how ur unit is. a well-disciplined unit will be "the best" in all. and they are the ones to send to battle and you can be sure of their commitments in it.
and especially for officers and leaders. how u look reflects wat situations we all (the soldiers) are in. if the officer looks "ok", then we are "ok". but, if that officer aren't in his/her best outift, men will suspect something is wrong and it will affect the morale.
if the officer normally already looks retard, then the men won't suspect anything. hmm maybe it might even be a plus point cos even if the officer is worried also wont affect morale when thigns go wrong