Anyone been to DB before?
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so inhumane insideOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:Was the punishment regime the same? Still doing quick march with heavy backpacks until they collapse?
When we did an orientation visit of DB, the encik told us 'softies' like us won't survive a day in there and hinted that it would be better for us to commit suicide before we get thrown in there should something unfortunate befalls us...
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The whole idea of DB is already inhumane...All nsf give up 2 yrs of their precious youth to serve in NS and because of some stupid mistakes that may not be entirely their fault, they got thrown into DB because of that...Originally posted by kwlee:so inhumane inside
How fair can that gets?? -
The regime is very siong. As you all know, the famous sandbag marches and strict regimentation discipline.
After hours, the detainees are also susceptible to standby room and turn outs throughout the night, depending on cases. We are, by law, allowed to switch on the lights, turn out the detainees for searches as many times and any time we like....so imagine, rest also can't rest properly...everybody will break sooner or later.
The point in all these is to deter detainees from ever coming back again, apart from instilling discipline the hard way.
Inhumane? Maybe it is. But this is the ARMY, and soldiers are suppose to be TOUGH. As for the suicide part, its quite hard to do so... all detainees have clothes that do not have elastic bands, no underwear, no shoelaces, no sharp or metal objects....the reason is to prevent them from escaping, harming themselves or others. -
What about any cases of detainees rebelling against the MP?Originally posted by jarrodlim76:The regime is very siong. As you all know, the famous sandbag marches and strict regimentation discipline.
After hours, the detainees are also susceptible to standby room and turn outs throughout the night, depending on cases. We are, by law, allowed to switch on the lights, turn out the detainees for searches as many times and any time we like....so imagine, rest also can't rest properly...everybody will break sooner or later.
The point in all these is to deter detainees from ever coming back again, apart from instilling discipline the hard way.
Inhumane? Maybe it is. But this is the ARMY, and soldiers are suppose to be TOUGH. As for the suicide part, its quite hard to do so... all detainees have clothes that do not have elastic bands, no underwear, no shoelaces, no sharp or metal objects....the reason is to prevent them from escaping, harming themselves or others. -
yeah....like got gang fights? or got DB people gang up against MP? I don't believe everybody in DB is docile and compliant....
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ya.. heard abt him.. he is now the adminstrator of tis forumOriginally posted by Manager433:Anyone heard of this guy JASON? Always go DB during his entire NSF days.
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LMAOOriginally posted by monoslayer:ya.. heard abt him.. he is now the adminstrator of tis forum -
its quite hard to for detainees to mutiny and rebel... since we control their regime, their rest and even their food... its not to their best interest to rebel really. Besides, whilst the punishments are harsh, we're not that sadistic until we drive them to their graves...it really defeats the whole point..plus that means giving us more work to do.
You will be amazed at what the body can do when the mind is pushed to the limit. We got doctors and psychologists to take care of their mental strain and push them further than they expect.
That's why those in DB for serious offenses SUS are called Singapore Universal Soldiers for a reason- they are physically damn fit, and mentally trained to endure and enjoy hardship and pain.
Besides, if there really is a mutiny, they only got their bare hands. We got batons, stun guns, and even live ammo if all hell breaks loose. And that's just the offensive weapons. Consider our defensive armaments, the surrounding, the structure, and the law, there is no way they can rebel. -
so now we know. DB is used to train masochists. No wonder so many repeat offenders. They can't wait to go back.Originally posted by jarrodlim76:mentally trained to endure and enjoy hardship and pain.
btw, someone annoying here keeps throwing out officlal bureaucrat-speak. the kind of statements used by govts to categorily deny any wrong-doing. The kind that nobody is fooled by -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
What are the ethical issues on this?
It was many years ago but when I visited KDB medical centre there were prisoners being put through some sort of punishment fatigue. They were carrying a backpack filled with bricks and had to do forced march in double quick time under the sun until they collapse. The MO was there to certify if he needed a rest or could go on.
Medical officer given a lawful order ....
vs. a physician's duty to do no harm ....
Is this cruel and unusual punishment protected by the U.S. constitution ... roughshod by us?
Are we barbarians?
Can you as the M.O. legally decline this order? Or will you end up in DB too?
Can you be conscientious objector?
etc ..... -
the problem is....Originally posted by Dogtor:What are the ethical issues on this?
Medical officer given a lawful order ....
vs. a physician's duty to do no harm ....
Is this cruel and unusual punishment protected by the U.S. constitution ... roughshod by us?
Are we barbarians?
Can you as the M.O. legally decline this order? Or will you end up in DB too?
Can you be conscientious objector?
etc .....
some people have no morals of their own. they would gladly obey any given order as long as it means they appear to remain loyal to their own country. They cannot accept the idea that just because someone objects to certain going ons within the country doesn't mean they're disloyal. These people are like dogs who are willing to sell their souls for a few scraps from the table.
I bet u're going to get some reply from the person u quoted, detailing some bureaucratic-gobbledygook about discipline or some other prating hogwash to try justifying inhumanity and immorality. Wait n see. -
Heng, I'm not here to defend the system. And as an individual in a democractic society, you have your right to condemn the system and its soldiers as being inhumane and immoral. I respect that (doesn't mean I have to agree with it).
However, lets leave the politicising of such issues to the politicians shall we? Even if you condemn the inhumanity of the system, please at least, respect the soldiers who the ends to the means, and merely the messenger.
As soldiers, we are just the ends to the means. We work, live and fight for a system without making judgments, for the very same reason: freedom and humanity. There is no perfect system or perfect world, and nobody and nothing is equal.
And we do what we are trained to do, not out of blind loyalty or of some ideology that we are doing good. The fact is, we are the last line of defence, doing the dirty work that governments, politicians and civillians are unable to do, but yet want to uphold their freedom, rights and ideology.
We do what we are trained to do, because we are soldiers, unless of course the order is a blatant war crime. We work on the assumption that the orders and commands given from above, are sanctioned, in line with and in accordance to the beliefs and views of the society that we are defending. Even if we do question the order, there is a process and chain of command that we must follow.
Ever wonder why it is only the commanders and top brasses who are always trialed for war crimes, and not the everyday soldier who carries out the act?
And yes, the system is actually tolerant of an individual's beliefs and rights. There is a section at DB for jehova's witnesses, who conscientously object to carrying arms or pledging alliance to the flag. They serve out their national service time in a part of DB not through punishment, but doing stuff like planting trees, growing crops, or whatever they wish to do. We don't harrass them, or give them hell for their beliefs, even though it is contrary to what the majority of Singaporeans uphold and value.
In the event of war, fellow Singaporean soldiers will still fight, defend and die for fellow Singaporean Jehova's Witnesses, even if they refuse to assist them in the fight. -
oh dont't worry, i was talking about the system from a larger POV, and about some of the higher ups who willingly defend certain things they know is wrong, if only it means they continue getting their share of scraps. Its not the rank and file I have any bone with. They are victims as much as anyone else. They don't get anything much in return either. Oh no. There is only one lackey here who's getting scraps from the table, who will sell his morals for those scraps.Originally posted by jarrodlim76:Heng, I'm not here to defend the system. And as an individual in a democractic society, you have your right to condemn the system and its soldiers as being inhumane and immoral. I respect that (doesn't mean I have to agree with it).
However, lets leave the politicising of such issues to the politicians shall we? Even if you condemn the inhumanity of the system, please at least, respect the soldiers who the ends to the means, and merely the messenger.
As soldiers, we are just the ends to the means. We work, live and fight for a system without making judgments, for the very same reason: freedom and humanity. There is no perfect system or perfect world, and nobody and nothing is equal.
And we do what we are trained to do, not out of blind loyalty or of some ideology that we are doing good. The fact is, we are the last line of defence, doing the dirty work that governments, politicians and civillians are unable to do, but yet want to uphold their freedom, rights and ideology.
We do what we are trained to do, because we are soldiers, unless of course the order is a blatant war crime. We work on the assumption that the orders and commands given from above, are sanctioned, in line with and in accordance to the beliefs and views of the society that we are defending. Even if we do question the order, there is a process and chain of command that we must follow.
Ever wonder why it is only the commanders and top brasses who are always trialed for war crimes, and not the everyday soldier who carries out the act?
And yes, the system is actually tolerant of an individual's beliefs and rights. There is a section at DB for jehova's witnesses, who conscientously object to carrying arms or pledging alliance to the flag. They serve out their national service time in a part of DB not through punishment, but doing stuff like planting trees, growing crops, or whatever they wish to do. We don't harrass them, or give them hell for their beliefs, even though it is contrary to what the majority of Singaporeans uphold and value.
In the event of war, fellow Singaporean soldiers will still fight, defend and die for fellow Singaporean Jehova's Witnesses, even if they refuse to assist them in the fight. -
Pardon my ignorance for I am a mere soldier but who may that Lackey be?
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look thru the posts carefully and see who looks most like George Bush insisting Iraq has weapons of mass destructionOriginally posted by jarrodlim76:Pardon my ignorance for I am a mere soldier but who may that Lackey be? -
went in as CD before leh. 5 days, but last day, a sunday, was waived.
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wats a CD?Originally posted by ^tamago^:went in as CD before leh. 5 days, but last day, a sunday, was waived.
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corrective detainee..Originally posted by monoslayer:wats a CD? -
Decline the order to do what? Refuse to examine a detainee who collapsed during training?Originally posted by Dogtor:Can you as the M.O. legally decline this order? Or will you end up in DB too?
Can you be conscientious objector?
etc .....
The doctor does not administer the punishment, just as the prison doctor is not required to execute any prisoners on death row. There is no moral issue and indeed we have an obligation to treat prisoners, say, following caning or any other punishments. For death sentences, the prison MO certifies death. He cannot and is not expected to execute anyone.
In the US, there is an issue with their dealth sentence by lethal injection, because the doctor sets the drip for the lethal coc_ktail.
So in summary, the MO cannot refuse a legal order to attend to a prisoner who collapsed during punsihment. As for certifying someone fit for those snadbag marches, haven't you done FFI for detainees bound for DB? -
Let's keep the thread back on the topic and not enter into another flame war, which I suspect, will erupt very soon.
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will be keeping an eye on this.
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there are 3 kinds:Originally posted by monoslayer:wats a CD?
CD (Corrective Detainee)
CA (Close Arrest)
SUS (Soldier Under Suspension?) -
so wat offence did u committed??Originally posted by ^tamago^:there are 3 kinds:
CD (Corrective Detainee)
CA (Close Arrest)
SUS (Soldier Under Suspension?) -
2 days' AWOL due to no MC cover.Originally posted by monoslayer:so wat offence did u committed?? -
oic.. care to share wif us wats ur routine inside?Originally posted by ^tamago^:2 days' AWOL due to no MC cover.