Anyone been to DB before?
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All male citizens and permanent residents are required to do 2 years' full military service, followed by reserve duty periods of up to 40 days annually until they are 40 years old. Singapore does not recognise the right to CO. Objectors are court-martialled and sentenced to 12 months in military detention. They are then called up again and non-compliance results in further 24-month sentences. The following COs are all Jehovah's Witnesses. Those with stars by their name are serving their second sentence.Originally posted by mhcampboy:i think they serve the entire duration plus a bit more right? obviously they are detainees...so not allowed to book out.
Ngai Siew Chyit (Norman)*
Suthintheran Nair*
Foo Song Whai (Jason)*
Tai Kai Meng (Kenneth)*
Tan Lee Keat (Michael)*
Kok Kok Chuan*
Smith Marcus Dominic*
Tsay Chong (Martin)*
Kang Ching Siong (Jonathan)*
Chok Robert*
Hou Sing (Samuel)*
Tan Wai Cheng*
Yeo Kim Huei (Henry)*
Lee Kok Ling (Brendon)*
Chua Sin Li (Adrian)*
Sim Wee Siong (Gabriel)*
Leong Yew Kum (Donald)*
Wan Vhong Yee (Gerald)*
NG Chee Keong (David)*
Lim Boon Hwee*
Say Poh Heng*
Chua Tong Jin (Edgar)
Cheong Beng Huat
Tan Tien Lye
Chai Tsun Chieh
Ng Chun Siang (Wilson)
Aw Jee Siang
Lee Han Liang (Jason)
Chong Kim Heng
Chew Chi Kong (Adrian)
Lee Yuen Hsien (Jeremy)
http://www.wri-irg.org/pubs/pfp97-en.htm
some of the regular inmates actually know these ppl and will chat with them during meal distribution times etc. yes, they dun book out. -
no. the DB MP's (not Mowbray) will shave u. sit on a chair next to the toilet and just whack the electric hair shaver.Originally posted by alien09:must you shave botak before you enter DB? -
1. The biggest impact on us if we signed the international conventions mentioned earlier is that we will lose the right to impose the death sentence and caning.Originally posted by Dogtor:Agreed.
1. Should we be a signatory? pros and cons?
2. Where does the physician stand (who does not condone such actions) with regards to statutory duties or judicial orders?
- what happens to the Ministry of Health M.O. (bonded) asked to serve in the prison service for such? should they feel it is unethical to participate in certifying prisoners for punishment?
- Are they at risk of judicial penalties for refusal, yet are bonded and thus unable to resign their office?
- What if this is an undesirable posting and junior docs have to do at least one undesirable posting (MOH directive)?
You are a wise mushroom.
It is true that between imprisonment and caning, the latter is a greater deterrence. Convicts have been known to ask if they can exchange caning for a longer sentence. In fact, there was an occasion when the ex-CJ, feeling that a more severe sentence was needed, reduced a convict's prison sentence and added caning instead.
Following a series of brutal murder cases including the Huang Na case, many Singaporeans felt the death penalty should stay. There are also many who support the death penalty for drug trafficking offences. Given its proximity to the golden triangle and a big drug market down south in Australia, Singapore would not want to be the first nation to abolish the death sentence for drug offences when all other countries along this route have retained it.
For these reasons, I seriously doubt that Singapore would sign these conventions, particularly as many of our neighboring nations have not signed them either.
2. The duty of a physician with regard to statutory obligations and judicial orders is absolute. For example, you have to break confidentiality to report an infectious disease, for example; and you cannot refuse to answer a judge's question even if it means breaking patient confidentiality.
As for the MO who is posted to the prison, you have a contractual obligation to your employer who has posted you there. The prison has no power over you in this respect, but you may be breaking your contract with MOH if you refuse to carry out a legitimate official duty as laid out in your contract. If the terms of your employment spells out your ethical objections to various procedures and yet the MOH employs you, you are not liable. If it does not (I suspect many doctors don't even read their contracts), then you have to fight it out in court as to whether the duties required of you by your employer are unreasonable because they contravene your right to practise your religion, as provided for by law, or some other such reasons.
For example, a Muslim lab technician may refuse to handle a pig or a dog used in research experiments even though the hospital defines it as part of his official duties, if he can prove that those duties are unreasonable as they directly conflict with the practice of his religion.
There is a big difference between the two forms of obligations. If you refuse to answer the court as to whether your patient has a venereal disease, you can be thrown into jail. If you refuse to certify prisoners fit prior to caning, the worst that can happen is that you will lose your job and have to pay back the bond.
In practice, it can be sorted out administratively. If you do not want to be posted to the prison, perhaps you can choose an even more undesirable posting...say, in the mortuary instead. -
see got scar for what ?Originally posted by ^tamago^:yes. when u go in, ur rank is CD, CA or SUS. so u will be known as CD XXX to ur MO etc.
when u go MO, u must say u r CD wat, NRIC No., in for wat, for how long etc de. stand inside yellow box, MO wun touch u. and strip and do the 7-step drill when instructed, to show ur tongue and ur body parts to make sure no scars or anything like tat.
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so will there b any complications when they find jobs in the future?? parents visiting r not allow in DB rite? so does tis means tat the parents will not c their son for the whole 3 yrs? r they treated as any other convicts inside or r they given welfare n priviledges? sorry to ask so many qus..Originally posted by ^tamago^:All male citizens and permanent residents are required to do 2 years' full military service, followed by reserve duty periods of up to 40 days annually until they are 40 years old. Singapore does not recognise the right to CO. Objectors are court-martialled and sentenced to 12 months in military detention. They are then called up again and non-compliance results in further 24-month sentences. The following COs are all Jehovah's Witnesses. Those with stars by their name are serving their second sentence.
some of the regular inmates actually know these ppl and will chat with them during meal distribution times etc. yes, they dun book out.
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cos inmates when they nothing to do they will make tattoo on themselves and on others. dun ask me how they can be so resourceful, i'm not tat level yet.Originally posted by kwlee:see got scar for what ? 
so they will record all the tattoos u have during FFI (Admission) and if they spot any new tattoos, hong kan~!
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by right is must book 2 weeks in advance or something like tat. tat kind of arrangements, it may not necessary follow what is on the book. but they will surely have the chance to meet their parents throughout the confinement period.Originally posted by monoslayer:so will there b any complications when they find jobs in the future?? parents visiting r not allow in DB rite? so does tis means tat the parents will not c their son for the whole 3 yrs? r they treated as any other convicts inside or r they given welfare n priviledges? sorry to ask so many qus..
3 yrs no welfare la, everyone go in also same same. no CD also, straight away is SUS. if awaiting trial is CA, and the period as CA is not counted towards ur actual sentence so u LL.
CA/SUS main bldg cells are about 75% the space of CD cells. and CA/SUS cells are only standard 1-floor height, while CD is almost 3m with the top part having a grilled opening for some decent sunlight. CA/SUS cells are so dark & cramped i think i'll go mad to stay there. it's worse than CP or QRP.
the empty cells nearer to the staircase are used as holding cells for those visiting MO or FFI or awaiting any instructions. the staircase itself and space between levels are fenced up so no one can try to jump down and commit suicide or escape. door control is via central command (not the MPs) and MP's guarding the staircase doors will comms back if they wan to open.
there is a SAF DB act u can check out on the Attorney General's website.
jobs impact i dunno, but ur 34B will record it ur status as "military offence". i saw my 34B before. -
Jehovah's Witnesses should be smarter, practise their religion underground and not declare.
But I must say, if you are willing to stay in DB for 40 months and above for your beliefs, I respect your convictions. -
I read in this thread that there cannot be 2 men inside 1 cell..but can 1,3,4 or even 5 men in a cell. Can anyone enlighten me as to why is it so??
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They refuse to bear arms, wear unifom and take the SAF Oath..how to practise their religion underground?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Jehovah's Witnesses should be smarter, practise their religion underground and not declare.
But I must say, if you are willing to stay in DB for 40 months and above for your beliefs, I respect your convictions. -
Not that hard to practise in their heart. This is a case of not being able to think further and be a smart worshipper.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:They refuse to bear arms, wear unifom and take the SAF Oath..how to practise their religion underground?
Anyway, they should take heed of what Christ said about giving to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and what is God's, to God.This analogy of taxpaying is similar to national defence.They should understand that easily.
But then again, I will not put words into the lips of other people who choose to worship their way, and will defend them if i have to. -
scared they have anal or something? i can roughly understand why but i dunno how to explain... maybe something along the lines of having a third party, which is not exactly a fool-proof thing...Originally posted by nanren4ever:I read in this thread that there cannot be 2 men inside 1 cell..but can 1,3,4 or even 5 men in a cell. Can anyone enlighten me as to why is it so?? -
three person more dangerousOriginally posted by ^tamago^:scared they have anal or something? i can roughly understand why but i dunno how to explain... maybe something along the lines of having a third party, which is not exactly a fool-proof thing...
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What i respect about them , is that they really act out on their belives , alot of us including me just pray only but dont fellow anything or do anything , but they really Do something they really belife in .. REsPEctOriginally posted by LazerLordz:Not that hard to practise in their heart. This is a case of not being able to think further and be a smart worshipper.
Anyway, they should take heed of what Christ said about giving to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and what is God's, to God.This analogy of taxpaying is similar to national defence.They should understand that easily.
But then again, I will not put words into the lips of other people who choose to worship their way, and will defend them if i have to. -
Cells are always 1,3,5.. never 2....
because if they fight.. got another neutral 1 to give comments la....
Parent visit is allowed.. only once a week... need to book through the reception...
Too many things you all have discussed are untrue.. they are myths of DB...
by the way.. DB is no longer a hell where all get punished to almost dead, it's now a rehabilitative and corrective centre.... -
I get you. I guess they differ from us in that aspect.Originally posted by gUms:What i respect about them , is that they really act out on their belives , alot of us including me just pray only but dont fellow anything or do anything , but they really Do something they really belife in .. REsPEct
As I said, I'll defend them anyday in war. -
right...in terms of attitude, they're actually better than some of us bo-chap soldier who just go through the motions but detest ns...
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kiddyduck is MP, ZPC or CD/CA/SUS?Originally posted by kiddyduck:Cells are always 1,3,5.. never 2....
because if they fight.. got another neutral 1 to give comments la....
Parent visit is allowed.. only once a week... need to book through the reception...
Too many things you all have discussed are untrue.. they are myths of DB...
by the way.. DB is no longer a hell where all get punished to almost dead, it's now a rehabilitative and corrective centre.... -
I think maybe he's the charge clerk.Originally posted by ^tamago^:kiddyduck is MP, ZPC or CD/CA/SUS? -
Meaning? No more sandbag marches?Originally posted by kiddyduck:Cells are always 1,3,5.. never 2....
because if they fight.. got another neutral 1 to give comments la....
Parent visit is allowed.. only once a week... need to book through the reception...
Too many things you all have discussed are untrue.. they are myths of DB...
by the way.. DB is no longer a hell where all get punished to almost dead, it's now a rehabilitative and corrective centre.... -
got, for first-timer and minor offences. the purpose is to deter you from coming back in again.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Meaning? No more sandbag marches? -
Sandbag regimes still carrying on... It's now for first timers and some old-timers.
As what tamago said, its a force of deterence to make first timers afraid to come back... But that doesnt mean old-timer wont get regimes.... They still go through tough regimes....
Haha just stop guessing I am MP or SUS la... see my signature you know liao lo.... -
JW people can contribute to our country in ways like teaching,lecturing,working,supporting and also being around to help out in MOE,Construction of buildings,Maintenance of HDB buildings, in national education etc....
Like the cost of war,and preventing war..
The world isn't so small to revolve around a single word called defense.
Sometimes,i rather the world was filled with peace lovers so that nobody has to bear arms and put themself in the risk of getting shot at.
Am i right? Lazerlordz? -
As history will tell u, there will always be power-hungry people who want more, and wages war to get what they want.
And also, we have no choice but to defend ourselves, because apparently, neighbours are jealous of a tiny red dot. -
That's the goal that many of us want to attain, but I'm one who believes in the sheepdog theory.Originally posted by MrFugue:JW people can contribute to our country in ways like teaching,lecturing,working,supporting and also being around to help out in MOE,Construction of buildings,Maintenance of HDB buildings, in national education etc....
Like the cost of war,and preventing war..
The world isn't so small to revolve around a single word called defense.
Sometimes,i rather the world was filled with peace lovers so that nobody has to bear arms and put themself in the risk of getting shot at.
Am i right? Lazerlordz?
To have peace, you need rough men who will stand on the wall for the rest of the people. How we get these rough men, is a system which needs evolving and further fine-tuning.
But absolute pacifism will also mean a weakening in our collective psyche.