SAF MArtial Arts Bullshit
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i believe....unarmed KILLS are something only certain military personnel learn...i mean, if our infantry has to resort to this means, their fire/movement must be really damn screwed up right? I think CCT is just there as a failsafe, a last resort. Granted its not really useful, but then...u would have to approach TRADOC for suggestions.
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I guess its unlikely that you will use your punches in a war. Even in Close Quater combat situation. Unless you are the korean black knights during the korean war... haha but that was half a century ago oreadi.
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ever heard of Brazillian ju jitsu?
we need that.. at least not all of it but know how to handle a ground fight..
like what US marines etc whatever u call them r training now -
Originally posted by lwflee:
Yo! brother, this one just a performance lah...it may not be what the UCIs are teaching to them mah...
I was surfing the net when I came across this steaming pile of crap. Worse, the title says "BCCT". I had thought that SAF unarmed combat training has moved on since its UC days, but apparently not.
Katas, One step sparrings, selfdefence against knives, board breakings, and general all round BULLSHIDO.
These guys have not been taught to fight. What they have been taught is ballroom dancing in camouflage fatigues.
Without further ado, I present [b]SAF BULLSHIDO - THE NEXT EVOLUTION
http://youtube.com/watch?v=g74_0buoeG0&search=SAF
I fear the SAF is beyond help now. Anyone care to tell me that the SAF takes training seriously?
Edit: Looks like 4 SIR.
Here is the depth of the problem:
http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=zhong_cheung
People are passing the course thinking they are now proficient in unarmed combat. That is, however, clearly far from the truth. As i said in an earlier post, the first time I had to spar with boxing gloves on in my Uni MA class, I was hit squarely in the eye. Why? Because I did not recognise the virtue of keeping your hands up. Because I was not taught the proper way to block a punch.
The SAF really really needs to be given a kick up its arse. This sort of shoddy training reflects very badly on the SAF as a whole. If the SAF cannot be bothered to train its soldiers properly in this instance, I think it is reasonable to conclude that the SAF does not train its soldiers properly period. [/b]
In such a performance, be it unit turn-ops parade, passing-out parade, COC parade, these performances are designed to impress, with the super duper music as background, but hardly means that is what is being teached.
Another thing is, what is wrong with KATAS? Or one-step, 3-step sparrings...seemingly you are not well-versed in martial arts or fighting...
Such stepped-sparring....when practised for numerous times, becomes second-nature, and if let's say you are really being attacked it a manner you know, let's say a punch or attack from the back, or a thrust of a dagger from the front, your second nature will immediately grap him by the hand and slam him down, etc.
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Come come. Anyone wanna approach TRADOC? I know the commander personally. I still got his hp number. Anyone wanna suggest anitin...? i forward it to him.Originally posted by Hellraiza:i believe....unarmed KILLS are something only certain military personnel learn...i mean, if our infantry has to resort to this means, their fire/movement must be really damn screwed up right? I think CCT is just there as a failsafe, a last resort. Granted its not really useful, but then...u would have to approach TRADOC for suggestions. -
I disagree that the rifle is all u need for modern combat. In urban environments, contact may get so close that ur primary weapon, the rifle may be rendered inefficient in combat. Or in some circumstances, firing the weapon may result in hitting civilian or wounding ur own buddy.
Hence proper close combat training is needed as a basic infantryman tool to overcome the situation when required.
Even in jungle combat, trenches when overrun become a testing ground of close combat training. Similar to the reasons given above, enemy who overwhelm your position and into your fire trench maybe in between u and ur buddy. Shooting him may result in over penetration and wounding your own buddy. The south koreans demonstrated how TKD was useful in such a situation during the vietnam war. In some reported incidents, the korean infantrymen would engage the enemy in close hand to hand combat, attempting to gain the upper hand or pin the enemy down for his buddy to finish him of, with a rifle bullet. More than often, the NVA or Vietcong, not as well trained as their Korean counter parts, were quickly overwhelmed and killed.
The ability to fight hand to hand is of utmost importance in soldiering. The current BCCT package which I went thru (first few batch, we were told) , i see it as inadequate even as an introduction package.
Perhaps recruits passing out from BMT need not know how to break a person's neck in 1 swift and silent move, but they at least need to learn how to recognise, avoid or escape from such a move.
My philosophy is this. Learn to recognise before u learn to strike. Therefore, u will learn the importance of the strike, and learn how strike effectively. Perhaps i am being too critical on the training i recieved, (altho free also cannot like that wad), but I feel that punching and kicking air does not teach one how to fight and protect one self. It needs to move into choreographed sparring initially, and in advanced packages, freestyle sparring with safety equipment.
If the SAF cares for its soldiers, it shud care to train them well to survive in combat. At the same time, telling those CCT instructors that they are to teach them how to fight hand to hand, not tekan them. I remember spending half the time of our 1 hr lessons facing the floor... wtf. -
I think they should lighten the pugis stick or make it at least the same length as the M16 during the unarmed combat training. The one we use is this fat long cylindrical stick with cushion outside, it is unwieldy, unrealistic and from far with the face guard on, machiam like two gorilla trying to cclobber each other!!
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This fighting is meant for you to learn how to fight aggressively without fear. One of the things many martial arts practicioners face is that no matter how higly skilled we are, we just don't have that "killer instinct" needed in an all out street fight, much like what actual hand-to-hand combat will be like.Originally posted by equlus84:I think they should lighten the pugis stick or make it at least the same length as the M16 during the unarmed combat training. The one we use is this fat long cylindrical stick with cushion outside, it is unwieldy, unrealistic and from far with the face guard on, machiam like two gorilla trying to cclobber each other!!
Hence the padded sticks was meant to train us to fight with aggression. Altho I do agree that maybe shortening it to M16 length might give it an added dimension to the training. Ha ha.. maybe this is something to bring up to the commander of TRADOC. -
I think you need to let them know that Martial art is not learnt in a day or months.
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WHAT IS WRONG WITH KATAS??!!!Originally posted by nightzip:Yo! brother, this one just a performance lah...it may not be what the UCIs are teaching to them mah...
In such a performance, be it unit turn-ops parade, passing-out parade, COC parade, these performances are designed to impress, with the super duper music as background, but hardly means that is what is being teached.
Another thing is, what is wrong with KATAS? Or one-step, 3-step sparrings...seemingly you are not well-versed in martial arts or fighting...
Such stepped-sparring....when practised for numerous times, becomes second-nature, and if let's say you are really being attacked it a manner you know, let's say a punch or attack from the back, or a thrust of a dagger from the front, your second nature will immediately grap him by the hand and slam him down, etc.
WHen practiced, these movements do NOT become second nature. Dun BS me. THe best way to learn to defend yourself is to....defend yourself.
You talk like a typical theoretical martial artist. Grabbing the hand of someone seeking to stab you? You give me a marker pen and try to stop me from stabbing you. I will paint you black and blue. -
I already mentioned that a few posts earlier.Originally posted by acwire_2125:I think you need to let them know that Martial art is not learnt in a day or months. 
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I mean silence, not just unarmed. The moment you start whooping out loud as in TKD means your section is shot to bits. Anyway, since when do our NS boys train in archery or crossbowmanship? The SAS tiptoe boys used knives and crossbows in the Confrontasi, what will our boys use?Originally posted by Hellraiza:i believe....unarmed KILLS are something only certain military personnel learn...i mean, if our infantry has to resort to this means, their fire/movement must be really damn screwed up right? I think CCT is just there as a failsafe, a last resort. Granted its not really useful, but then...u would have to approach TRADOC for suggestions. -
Allo.. I'm sure the SOF, commandos and NDU play with such stuff. As you said in your statement, "SAS tiptoe boys.."Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:I mean silence, not just unarmed. The moment you start whooping out loud as in TKD means your section is shot to bits. Anyway, since when do our NS boys train in archery or crossbowmanship? The SAS tiptoe boys used knives and crossbows in the Confrontasi, what will our boys use?
You really don't need the regular infantry and guardsmen to shoot people with crossbows. You gotta compare apples with apples. -
Nobody taught you how to move your face aside, or side-step from the direction of the punch ?
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They are taught to kill "pigs" in the fastest way...personally taught by Israeli InstructorsOriginally posted by saberlancer:Some of our military are trained in Krav Maga. -
But we still appreciate silent kills... So how in hell can we NSmen and NSF do it?Originally posted by insouciant:Allo.. I'm sure the SOF, commandos and NDU play with such stuff. As you said in your statement, "SAS tiptoe boys.."
You really don't need the regular infantry and guardsmen to shoot people with crossbows. You gotta compare apples with apples. -
Katas is a set of moves thats aim to develope proficiency in skills and the ability to follow up on the attacks using moves that can put a person life in immediate danger (eg. a hit in the groin) as such moves are not allow in free sparing due to its being too lethal.Originally posted by lwflee:WHAT IS WRONG WITH KATAS??!!!
WHen practiced, these movements do NOT become second nature. Dun BS me. THe best way to learn to defend yourself is to....defend yourself.
You talk like a typical theoretical martial artist. Grabbing the hand of someone seeking to stab you? You give me a marker pen and try to stop me from stabbing you. I will paint you black and blue.
When u have done the same thing a thousand time everyday movements indeed become a second nature. Kata give you the ability to execute a quick follow through and fast reflexes. A true kata is not about a cherograph dance, you are suppose to do it with your mind being contantly aware of dangers surrounding you. Martial art dont teach u to be aggresive but to enable the practitional to adapt and react to the chges in situation. -
come on lah, its not whether ur a NSman or NSF or regular. SAF is not training an army of assasins leh!Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:But we still appreciate silent kills... So how in hell can we NSmen and NSF do it? -
More like muscle memory, allowing for faster blows and reaction.Originally posted by NewAge:Katas is a set of moves thats aim to develope proficiency in skills and the ability to follow up on the attacks using moves that can put a person life in immediate danger (eg. a hit in the groin) as such moves are not allow in free sparing due to its being too lethal.
When u have done the same thing a thousand time everyday movements indeed become a second nature. Kata give you the ability to execute a quick follow through and fast reflexes. A true kata is not about a cherograph dance, you are suppose to do it with your mind being contantly aware of dangers surrounding you. Martial art dont teach u to be aggresive but to enable the practitional to adapt and react to the chges in situation. -
It's just for those moments when you really need to be quiet. Otherwise, please do whip up your M-16s and SARs and riddle the enemy with holes.Originally posted by Hellraiza:come on lah, its not whether ur a NSman or NSF or regular. SAF is not training an army of assasins leh! -
isn't that the same as better reflexes?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:More like muscle memory, allowing for faster blows and reaction. -
Singapore regular army is small. With high casualty rate i believe the roles undertaken by regular soldiers might include assasination.Originally posted by Hellraiza:come on lah, its not whether ur a NSman or NSF or regular. SAF is not training an army of assasins leh!
What so bad with having an army of assasins!!!!!! Assasins has always been proven useful in time of war. Having assasins will surely deter malaysian politicians from criticising Singapore wld't it. -
haha.. so there are ppl who want SAF to be an army of assassins?
wait, i have a few more suggestions.
lets train soldiers in the SAF to be as good as Delta Force and SAS, get all soldiers (from clerks, to infantry, to armour, to engineers) airborne, diving, and JCC trained. oh, not forgetting rapelling from helicopters. on top of that, train every individual soldier in spycraft, too! last but not least, get them cross trained in every vocation in the army. infantry, driver, armour tankee, technician, medic, dog handler, combat engineer, MSD.
SAF. the Army of Elites.
in addition, i suggest that MINDEF send all SAF personnel to go to Japan and learn the ways of a Ninja so all of us would be ub3r 1337 assassins too!Having assasins will surely deter malaysian politicians from criticising Singapore wld't it.
Join the Dark Side of the Force. Obedience through fear!!! -
Originally posted by Ristar:
Err...you want NS to become 10 yrs service instead of 2 ar??
[b]haha.. so there are ppl who want SAF to be an army of assassins?
wait, i have a few more suggestions.
lets train soldiers in the SAF to be as good as Delta Force and SAS, get all soldiers (from clerks, to infantry, to armour, to engineers) airborne, diving, and JCC trained. oh, not forgetting rapelling from helicopters. on top of that, train every individual soldier in spycraft, too! last but not least, get them cross trained in every vocation in the army. infantry, driver, armour tankee, technician, medic, dog handler, combat engineer, MSD.
[b] -
Originally posted by riken1974:Err...you want NS to become 10 yrs service instead of 2 ar?? but this is the only way to get them to wake up their idea.