Is medical science really that 100 percent accurate
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I just wonder is medical test and science is really that 100 percent
accurate?
Or shall i put it as medical test if tested positive
means you are down with sickeness
or else even you show symptoms , but test show negative
means you are 100 percent well being -
no ,
even DNA testing .
there's a slim chance that some1 have the same DNA with u .... ( not twins or triplets or quadrets ......)
but the chance is very very very very low .....................
i think AIDS test also ...
99.9 % accurate ........
i dun think anything can be 100 % ..... -
If the justice court allow DNA to be used in court as evidence, I tink that speaks a lot on DNA unique-ness in each human being
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huh? r u sure? where can i read about that? i read that only identical twins share same DNA...Originally posted by Taiwanpolitics:no ,
even DNA testing .
there's a slim chance that some1 have the same DNA with u .... ( not twins or triplets or quadrets ......)
but the chance is very very very very low ..................... -
ya...saw in CSIOriginally posted by sgquitter:only identical twins share same DNA... -
no ...
the chance that some1 has the same DNA with u is very slim , so court accepts DNA proof . -
There is no such thing as 100% accurate - only layman and lawyers want you to say that.Originally posted by noahnoah:I just wonder is medical test and science is really that 100 percent
accurate?
Or shall i put it as medical test if tested positive
means you are down with sickeness
or else even you show symptoms , but test show negative
means you are 100 percent well being
In tests - be it in medicine or engineering, we have to measure "accuracy" in 2 ways:
1. SENSITIVITY - ie. how likely the type of test in question will pick up all the people truly with disease in a screened population ( sensitivity represents the proportion of truly diseased persons in a screened population who are identified as being diseased by the test. It is a measure of the probability of correctly diagnosing a condition)
2. SPECIFICITY - ie. specificity is the proportion of truly nondiseased persons who are so identified by the screening test. It is a measure of the probability of correctly identifying a nondiseased person.
In most tests you have to trade off sensitivity for specificity and vice versa - and it usually makes sense.
If say, you have a highly infectious disease and you have to screen the population and want to capture all of the likely sick, even the not truly ill ones get captured - so your test has high sensitivity, ie like put all people in quarantine so long as you suspect on a screening test.
But if you have a diesase which can be cured but the treatment has many side effects - you want to be absolutely sure that the patient has the disease. So the test must have high specificity.
You can plot sensitivity and out as a Receiver Operating Charcterisitic (ROC)Curve [ROC curves]. And balance your requirements.
Now you know why no doctor can give you an absolute guarantee.
Science and medicine is the accumulation of evidence - ie. the evidence "SUGGESTS" one truth, the probabilityof finding a result stranger than this suggestion (ie, P-value < 0.05 -, that is a less than 5% chance - this again is arbitrary and depends on the type of test and scenario being looked at)
SO ... .... Pay your doctor more and listen to them.
All these info are freely available on websites on medical statistics, diagnostic testing, ROC curves, etc. -
According to what i know , all medical illiness
are determine by so call symptons . If you
show symptons to certain illness , however
various tests show negative < Dr will say you are
all right...
But have Dr ever think it be a new strain of diseases
or illness showing some new symptons
Wat about some fit people doing some running ,
and half way collapsed and died. -
haha, medical student out here, heard before a diagnosis actually comes 70% from the patients history, 25% from physical examination and 5% from investigation(eg, x-ray, MRI, blood test, KUB,....). The test(investigations consists of sensitivity and specificity., which you can calculate.
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If u refer to the Medical assestment or check up in SAF. Yup, there is no 100% sure in the SAF, there are cases mis-assestment.
Happen to my friend, initially a PES A (he more or less confirm going to OCS liao) but leh during BMT complain chest pain, further diagnosis found out hole in heart, downgrade to PES E, become clerk. -
I ever have a friend who is PR here from aust who complain
of backpain , so went to singapore top specislist ..
then specialist say nothing wrong with him
So bad that he have to bear the pain , he paid some money
and fly all the way to Rome to visit those top Doctor~~
After a few rounds of flying to and fro.. his back problem was gone
no more pain
So sometimes i wonder singapore Dr here everything
all go by their medical book? even one complain of pain~~
the answer is well you are ok or more simple excuse
maybe is in your mind?
But when something happen , no dr want to take the blame
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ppl given PES A actually died in the midst of their training .
if u say the health checkup conducted by MCC is accurate , i dun think so .
esp the dental checkup , u go in , open mouth , finish le .
not through at all .
then now no more cough test .......
i was not asked to strip and cough .
blood test is more worst .
u know a detailed blood test checks a lot of things .
i am unsure wad the MCC checks .
then the ENT checkup worst .
they dun even look at ur throat or see ur ears .
vision tests are worst they dun even see ur eyeballs .
vision normal does not mean eyeballs are ok .
i think the medi test is not totally accurate , no wonder ppl die while serving NS . -
reference please? can't find any.Originally posted by Taiwanpolitics:no ...
the chance that some1 has the same DNA with u is very slim , so court accepts DNA proof . -
well , maybe all the Dr that were gradutated from Nus
were being reminded that as long it is a singaporean
Male ~ mostly all come for medical visit because of
wanted to downgrade?
So just see see look will do .. anything happen ... just
play tai chi will do hahaha -
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - must be a duck....Originally posted by v_valentine:haha, medical student out here, heard before a diagnosis actually comes 70% from the patients history, 25% from physical examination and 5% from investigation(eg, x-ray, MRI, blood test, KUB,....). The test(investigations consists of sensitivity and specificity., which you can calculate.
Indeed, much of medicine - traditionally ----> diagnosis is made 90% of the time by history taking and 10% with physical examination.
These are subjective skills that takes a long time to hone - ie, medical "apprenticeship", which is on the job training as medical trainees in a training program in academic medical institutions.
You got an itchy throat, sniffles, don't feel 100% ----> most likely the common cold.
How to tell if you got the Bird Flu?? early symptoms?
Then improvement on history taking and physical exam would be to perform diagnostic tests ----> then it will be the balance of how good the diagnostic test, who to test (test everyone - who pays?), then if bird flu - who not to test.
etc, etc.
Physical exam is over-rated ----> in that the sensitivity and specificity of signs/ symptoms (from history-taking) is low. Don't take my word for it, read the medical journals on these. This is also coupled to physician experience. Which is why you ask yourself - you wanna see 18th century Drs or 21st century Dr. Diagnostic tests are invented/developed to make up for the shortfall in human experience and subjectivity.
P.S. you are confing or restricting your understanding of sensitivity and specificity to just only lab test which is incorrect - it can also be applied to symptoms and signs in history-taking and physical exam.
The question is who pays for 21st century medicine???
Ministers for health would have you believe that medical science has advanced beyond our society's ability to pay for it. -
Correct ..... ...... The proviso is that you are willing to accept (usually) 5% chance of being wrong.Originally posted by noahnoah:According to what i know , all medical illiness
are determine by so call symptons . If you
show symptons to certain illness , however
various tests show negative < Dr will say you are
all right...
that's how the confirmatory test/lab/investigation is usually set at. -
New strain of disease require experience and vigilance to detect, usually one case cannot be determined but a cluster of cases.Originally posted by noahnoah:But have Dr ever think it be a new strain of diseases
or illness showing some new symptons
Also new strain suggests that you are thinking of infectious diseases and confining yourself to this.
"new" diseases are invented all the time.
Medicine is both science and art, sometimes there are fads (or call it "fashion" if you like)
New paradigms of scientific understanding (new models - usually due to basic science research - molecular stuff, genetic studies, etc.) give rise to further breakdown of classification of diseases and refinement in the management and treatment of traditional diseases.
If your Dr remains in a neghbourhood medical clinic in Ulu-land and seeing 70 to 80 year old illiterate 1-room rental single, no family patients - it is unlikely that the patient nor the Dr will have access to 21st century medicine - should they, or not - you have to ask yourself. In a social welfare system - they will but you pay 55% taxes and 17.5% GST (like UK/EU). This is a question of conscience and belief
If your Dr is a Dr in a major academic medical center where he is a super-sub-specialist, ie. not only a specialist but at the cutting edge of understanding and development of advances in medicine - then of course he will have different perspectives of disease understanding and management.
Consulting him means you are "wasting" his time if you cannot afford the treatment /management decision he recommends - wasting is too strong a word - but you know what i mean.
He can use that time to see other patients, go back to the lab to do research, or transmit his findings to other drs in lectures, seminars, tutorials, journals, etc..... -
That is the luck of the draw- why some people get killed crossing the street??Originally posted by noahnoah:Wat about some fit people doing some running ,
and half way collapsed and died.
If you are Bill Gates - where you a\make money in 2 seconds what people make in a lifetime then any test is not a problem, you can afford it, ie. the opportunity cost for latest test with the money is not a problem -"chances" are you can detect all the disease out there that can be detected with currently available technologies.
But if you are a kopi-kia like me then cannot afford the screening.
then if you are a enlistee - there is a certain pre-determined amount of screening limited by time, resources, money and experience.
Can't screen for everything.
Even if Bill Gates with his gadzillions screened for everything - he can still drop dead when he finds out he is also Spore citizen need to do IPPT. -
There are usually 2 "diseases" that Dr "fear" most when patients come in for medical consultation - 1. BACKPAIN 2. HEADACHE/DIZZINESSOriginally posted by noahnoah:I ever have a friend who is PR here from aust who complain
of backpain , so went to singapore top specislist ..
then specialist say nothing wrong with him
So bad that he have to bear the pain , he paid some money
and fly all the way to Rome to visit those top Doctor~~
After a few rounds of flying to and fro.. his back problem was gone
no more pain
So sometimes i wonder singapore Dr here everything
all go by their medical book? even one complain of pain~~
the answer is well you are ok or more simple excuse
maybe is in your mind?
But when something happen , no dr want to take the blame
In a Singaporean context, the lack of expressive linguistic ability makes it difficult to get to the root complaint.
"Dr, Dizzy is dizzy wat?" --- to my question of what do you actually feel?
BACKPAIN - if you have MRI (about $1000) for backpain and there are no physical evidence of obvious pathology - uhhhh ..... wat else can the Dr think if the physical exam is unrevealing??
"Dr ----> lousy - didnt get Xray for back pain" .... when the medical evidence and practice guidelines suggest that back X-rays are typically unhelpful....
It's hard to change cultural perceptions and deeply held beliefs ... and again the question of wanting 100% certainty which is not a possibility as I highlighted earlier in the thread.