S'pore's soldiers aren't getting enough respects......
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respect
my toes are laughting ppl wont give a damn about u if u are nsf -
if you look at other soldiers say in iraq do you see any fat soldiers??
i look at our soldiers i also lost confident -
Originally posted by wisefool83:
Huh? Western societies don't respect their soldiers? Where do you get that?
[b]Most of the western societies in general don't particularly respect their uniform personel anymore, not since Vietnam war. -
To answer this paragraph, even for now, the cookhouse food still taste like crap. I used up my entire savings during NS not to get food poisoning when I got a choice. The bullet that you claimed paid for, you think they like to fire them?Originally posted by mistyblue:Maybe people in the arm should respect the fact that every bullet they fire comes from our collective tax dollar also .. ever grain of rice they eat comes from our collective tax dollar...
You think that everyone is just like you? or you had not served before? If not, I would pay to see you serve.
Do you actually want to see your loved ones sent to war???Originally posted by mistyblue:Have any Singapore soldier/general actually go fight off enemies or do they get laughed at during exercise with Thai forces or Indonesian forces? Have any Singaporean soldier or general actually ever killed anyone and almost get killed and survived or once again, they go off to joint exercise to see war veterans snub singaporean soldiers cause they can only talk about "fake" war exercise that is unreal but never steped into a mine field fighting off enemies?
Respect? First Gain the respect of your fellow Soldiers in the region before talking about respect from the civilians. -
Have you ever wondered? Why we must serve...because we love our land, and we want it to be free to be free!
Respect should be earned,, not given, as something that is given often has no value. Thus, it is crucial for the SAF to show its prowess as a force capable in securing a swift and decisive victory under pressure, under fire and under any circumstances. -
I currently reside in a western society. According to one of my lecturer who was a Vietnam veteran and serveral older people, including one whose spouse took part in D-Day, whom I've converse with, soldiers that came back from Vietnam did not even dare to wear their uniform in public. In those days, they would get spat at just for being in uniform. Over the years their reputation had of course improved dramatically, but a lot these western societies are still having great difficulties in getting people to join the uniform. New Zealand, which I am currently residing in, had such high turnover rate that they can hardly replace those who leave. Australia is forced to lower its standard for recruitment, so "horizontally developed" people, Assmatic and even people from overseas can join them. U.S can also only recruit people from lower income groups and street kids. Recently they are so desperate they have to resort to recruit "Ah Ma" over the age 40+. The Army was traditionally dispised upon in the UK, although the navy was respected.Originally posted by Gedanken:Huh? Western societies don't respect their soldiers? Where do you get that? -
Ah, New Zealand. Nuff said. Comrade Clarke has systematically gutted the military to the point where they have nothing that can be described as an air force, so what do you expect?
Second, I'm not sure how in-depth your talks with the Vietnam vets were, but after a while you'll see that they've got a pretty strong agenda to push and that skews their view of things pretty badly. They participated in an unpopular war - it's fair comment that the Americans and their allies had no place being there. Even Robert McNamara admitted that they thought they were fighting communism and didn't realise they were fighting nationalism. As a result, they got much less respect than the veterans of any other war.
As for the change in recruitment policy, why not take a look at the general trend of change in warfare and the resulting effects on selection criteria? Back when I was in 1CDO, nobody wore glasses but now it's no longer an obstacle to selection. What with technology getting more complex and requiring less manpower, is it really surprising that the numbers and physical requirements are falling? I wouldn't go misattributing the trend to the wrong causes too quickly.
Bottom line: Think through all the factors and don't go generalising based on one war in one country, and proposing that it applies across Western nations.
Tell ya what - hop over the Tasman to my back yard and I'll show you plenty of people who have respect for the uniform and what it stands for, and not only on 25 April. Over here, your average joe is more than happy to hoist a pint to someone who serves or has served. -
Your food issue: So many soldiers go in and eat the same stuff. If you have an issue with the food, its only your problem. Don't blame anyone for your issue. Besides, my tax dollar goes to your food and I think its a waste on you.Originally posted by caleb_chiang:Do you actually want to see your loved ones sent to war???
I serve my country in other ways. I think I am more military than you are. Besides, Boys here should open up their minds and stop thinking the only way to serve the country is to do NS and what they do is so great that everyone should kneel when they go by just to show respect. Move along BOYS and grow up.
No one wants a war. But it is a real joke when our BOYs tell us to respect them when they had never been in any battle or do anything constructive except train with the Army. So just by default that these BOYs are in NS, NS BOYS demand civilians should show respect to them. As said, What is respect and How does NS BOYS expect us civilians to show respect.
I wonder if these BOYs respect their own parents and family enough to demand respect from others. Besides, you are just going out of point talking about war. But it is a fact that compared to the military forces in the region, Singapore army is the only one who had never had to step in any conflict. Even the local police force had to deal with civilian issues here and there but the army is just going to all sorts of places for exercise. Any old-timer army personnel can tell you, the standard of our BOYs dropped and the BOYs are treated like girls otherwise they are fragile and will break or complain to Mommy and Mommy will complain to ministry of defense.
If any BOY is man enough, and he treats he fellow people with respect, other people would also respect him. If any BOY demand respect just because he "served" the country by NS, then he deseved to be disrespected because he did not open his eyes and see the contribution of ever other person around him. If BOYs keep thinking they lose out, or the only way to serve the country is NS, the Girls had it easy and start comparing with other selective places, then they jolly well remain as BOYS and it is not a wonder the locals are losing to the global competition. If NS is that bad, all the BOYs in Singapore should just give up citizenship when they are 17 and migrate out of the country. I look the at the new generation of NS boys, go into and out of army, still look immature, whinnie and soft compared to the older generations where the boys go in and come out as men- tough and strong.
Respect? Point a gun at me I also won't respect. Pay me to go into NS? I think I will do better than you in NS. -
as a solider on duty..do not accept gifts from civilians or tok to them unless you really hav to as part of your assigned tasks.
soldiers have a job to do...they are not particular or that concerned about how ppl judge them.
that's all that need to be said. -
when you have never been to the Army, you may think that the Army do great things. but all males in Singapore are conscripted, so they have been there, done that, no big deal.
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So, uhhh, you're saying that you haven't served NS? That "I serve my country in other ways" bit does sound like you're dodging the issue. Could you please clarify?Originally posted by mistyblue:I serve my country in other ways. I think I am more military than you are. Besides, Boys here should open up their minds and stop thinking the only way to serve the country is to do NS and what they do is so great that everyone should kneel when they go by just to show respect. Move along BOYS and grow up. -
If I go in, I am going directly as Lieutenant or higher. How you wanna address me?Originally posted by Gedanken:So, uhhh, you're saying that you haven't served NS? That "I serve my country in other ways" bit does sound like you're dodging the issue. Could you please clarify?
You mean to tell me working to contribute to the economy is considered lesser contribution? Working in internal defence is less than NS? Working in private sector is not contribution to the nation? Working in volunteer service is not a contribution? Teaching the next generation is not serving the nation?
It depends on the definition of "serving the nation"
How open is tha definition and when it is tied to a single definition because guys attend NS is associated with "serving the nation"
All of us one way or another is serving the nation. -
Ah, so you haven't gone in. Say no more, thank you very much.
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By the way, if I were to rejoin the army, my qualifications would automatically entitle me to the rank of captain, and quite possibly major. You can call me sir, but I might not pay enough attention to hear it.
Now run along and play, and let the grownups talk. -
Then I look down on you for wasting resourceOriginally posted by Gedanken:Ah, so you haven't gone in. Say no more, thank you very much.
and having a narrow minded view.
Thank you very much for wasting my time -
Well, well, well. You've got absolutely no experience on any matters military, but you insist on wading in here and talking like some twenty-star general. Whose time and resources are being wasted?
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Seriously, I think you are the one who needs to grow up.Originally posted by Gedanken:By the way, if I were to rejoin the army, my qualifications would automatically entitle me to the rank of captain, and quite possibly major. You can call me sir, but I might not pay enough attention to hear it.
Now run along and play, and let the grownups talk.
I do not need to join the army because I know I will meet jerks like you. Old-birds in the army commands more respect and give respect more than jerk arse like you ever will. -
This thread is not about whose knowledge of army is better.Originally posted by Gedanken:Well, well, well. You've got absolutely no experience on any matters military, but you insist on wading in here and talking like some twenty-star general. Whose time and resources are being wasted?
Its about a NS guy telling civilians to respect him just because he has done NS.
So what if I had not done NS. Does not mean I am young and does not mean I need to go into NS.
It only means that I am the civilian who thinks BOYS like you make a mountain out of a mole hill. Unless you bleed every month, then you come and talk to me. -
Yadda yadda yadda. Someone talking so big without ever having done anything needs only be disregarded, because it's all conjecture.
like I said, do let the grownups talk - a 2-week recruit's opinion holds more credence than yours, loo-tenant, because at least he knows what he's talking about through experience.
Lemme spell it out for ya: coulda, woulda, shoulda, DIDN'T. Singapore's weather being the way it is, no more hot air would be appreciated. -
Well, of course it's not a matter of anybody's knowledge being better - you'd be even more of a joke in that case.Originally posted by mistyblue:This thread is not about whose knowledge of army is better.
Its about a NS guy telling civilians to respect him just because he has done NS.
So what if I had not done NS. Does not mean I am young and does not mean I need to go into NS.
It only means that I am the civilian who thinks BOYS like you make a mountain out of a mole hill. Unless you bleed every month, then you come and talk to me.
It's about perspective. It's about being stuck doing something you don't want to do, and at the same time being spat on by an unappreciative public. It's about asking for decent behaviour.
however, you're more interested in making excuses and going "I can also do that" like an impudent five-year-old who wants to keep up with the big kids.
No, I don't bleed every month. I have an even worse fate - listening to you whinge about having to bleed every month. It's more draining and painful. -
Originally posted by mistyblue:
sad to say this is not a case HERE, being in the army before sometimes you wonder is it really serve the army FOR the country or is it FOR THE SAKE of WAYANG.
Seriously, I think you are the one who needs to grow up.
I do not need to join the army because I know I will meet jerks like you. Old-birds in the army commands more respect and give respect more than jerk arse like you ever will. -
Think of it this way:Originally posted by duotiga83:sad to say this is not a case HERE, being in the army before sometimes you wonder is it really serve the army FOR the country or is it FOR THE SAKE of WAYANG.
All that Army and Policing is an act of WAYANG.
You think our neighbouring countries need to step into SG to take us down? -
yes indeed is serving but have really wonder that Are they really using US , NSFs usefully or just for the sake of conscript, squeezing our talents and resources till very dry and not credited???Originally posted by mistyblue:If I go in, I am going directly as Lieutenant or higher. How you wanna address me?
You mean to tell me working to contribute to the economy is considered lesser contribution? Working in internal defence is less than NS? Working in private sector is not contribution to the nation? Working in volunteer service is not a contribution? Teaching the next generation is not serving the nation?
It depends on the definition of "serving the nation"
How open is tha definition and when it is tied to a single definition because guys attend NS is associated with "serving the nation"
All of us one way or another is serving the nation.
this is the case here. So , where shld i put the honour on? -
So what specifically is "Appreciative Behaviour" guys are expecting from the public?Originally posted by Gedanken:Well, of course it's not a matter of anybody's knowledge being better - you'd be even more of a joke in that case.
It's about perspective. It's about being stuck doing something you don't want to do, and at the same time being spat on by an unappreciative public. It's about asking for decent behaviour.
however, you're more interested in making excuses and going "I can also do that" like an impudent five-year-old who wants to keep up with the big kids.
No, I don't bleed every month. I have an even worse fate - listening to you whinge about having to bleed every month. It's more draining and painful.
You people cannot be specific, then end of discussion.
And As Civilians - We do not even Show each other any Appreciative Behaviours, Then What DO you GUYS expect from the public?
I believe We all have a bad fate with you around here. I am not surprise you decide to pick on someone cause the rest cannot be bothered to answer you.
I know a part of you is still 5 yrs old. But you sure have a big mouth. -
Dr Mat already what to bomb us long time ago but can we retialiterate back?Originally posted by mistyblue:Think of it this way:
All that Army and Policing is an act of WAYANG.
You think our neighbouring countries need to step into SG to take us down? frankly speaking our morales are low and cmi 