I don't know can of not, its all hypothetical.Originally posted by duotiga83:Dr Mat already what to bomb us long time ago but can we retialiterate back? frankly speaking our morales are low and cmi
Originally posted by mistyblue:War is not a game correct but are the SAF taking excercises held real seriously?
I don't know can of not, its all hypothetical.
But If I were to take down SG, you think I would leave any chance to retaliate from SG?
I will waste the whole country in 1 strike. War is not a game. Its about Winning at any cost. If I have enough money and I do my calculations right. I can get weapons that will flatten the entire Singapore in one attack.
But is it necessary to attack SG? What is SG backing?
Low morale? For what?
No one can give you anything you don't want to take, No one can take away anything you don't want to give.
Well, for starters, appreciative behaviour would involve the decency to avoid carrying on like a two-bob watch about how insignificant the NS men's contribution is. It's your ignorance that disallows you to see it's that their presence that keeps your worthless arse safe, not the unwillinness of our neighbours to be aggressive.Originally posted by mistyblue:So what specifically is "Appreciative Behaviour" guys are expecting from the public?
You people cannot be specific, then end of discussion.
And As Civilians - We do not even Show each other any Appreciative Behaviours, Then What DO you GUYS expect from the public?
I believe We all have a bad fate with you around here. I am not surprise you decide to pick on someone cause the rest cannot be bothered to answer you.
I know a part of you is still 5 yrs old. But you sure have a big mouth.
There we go - I see you've just awarded yourself your twenty-first star, loo-tenant.Originally posted by mistyblue:I will waste the whole country in 1 strike. War is not a game. Its about Winning at any cost. If I have enough money and I do my calculations right. I can get weapons that will flatten the entire Singapore in one attack.
But is it necessary to attack SG? What is SG backing?
Low morale? For what?
No one can give you anything you don't want to take, No one can take away anything you don't want to give.
sinking lower.Originally posted by Gedanken:There we go - I see you've just awarded yourself your twenty-first star, loo-tenant.
And so how are the girls going to have 2 kids?Originally posted by jianfish9:I am about to complete NS and I sure as hell don't want anyone's respect for what I am doing coz its just not what everyone think it is. Its a choice we did not make and no thanks for the respect too...
On the other hand, I wonder if BOYs contribute by serving NS, of which avoiding is punishable by law, then would GIRLs be forcibly made to give birth to at least 2 child each or forced to be a teacher and/or nurse for the same duration of 2yrs? And of which failing to do so be liable to spend 3yrs in DB?
And to comment on NS and belittle it when one has not gone through is very offending to everyone who has gone through it, suffered for it or died during it. Some people in NS do bleed every month when they prone down on an ant's nest, bash through a forest or leopard crawl through the sand.
the real war is fought on the levels of the minds.Originally posted by duotiga83:War is not a game correct but are the SAF taking excercises held real seriously?
You need morale to boost the soldiers up during the war. without morale you are not getting anywhere.
last sentence i can agree with you but NSFs nw taking it the SAF as another SCHOOLING environment.
you need some "camping" in the army base to know whats the life inside.....
all BOYS are the same.Originally posted by jianfish9:Well if you don't wanna to be raped or sperm bank then keep quiet on saying that girls do their National duty by having Children or by whatever other means.
Forget it, you have not done NS and will never do it so theres no point arguing or whatever...
NS is just some holiday camp with free food and lodging and even guns for us to play with. What would someone know if that person has not spent a single day inside.
You can shut your bleeding mouth.Originally posted by Aveme:wow some lady here is speaking from her bleeding CB
Even if you do not respect soldiers,you should at least have the decency not to insult them.It is precisely because of us guys who have to spend 2 1/2 years that you have the big mouth to talk as if guys go into the army doing nothing and just sleeping,zobo all the time.
Granted that there are some chao keng here and there but that give no excuse for you to belittle the effort and significant of what NS has done for you ungrateful people.There are tons of guys who had suffer so much,getting injuries that can affect their later lives and here you a fucking never being to army gal generalize all guys to be boys who are all nothing more than a bunch of chao keng kia.
Speaking when it is comfort for you is easy,lol loo tien lent,walk the talk first and join the army b4 you want to talk about loo tien lent,if it is not for us guys who contribute to a large part of the deterance to surrounding Muslim countries,you may not even have the chance to contribute in other ways
It is true that the Labour Government had cut the combat wing from the Air Force. But one can argue that its a symtom rather than a cause. Furthermore, although the Air Force's combat capability was removed, substantial funding was provided for the Army to purchase new equipment.Originally posted by Gedanken:Ah, New Zealand. Nuff said. Comrade Clarke has systematically gutted the military to the point where they have nothing that can be described as an air force, so what do you expect?
Second, I'm not sure how in-depth your talks with the Vietnam vets were, but after a while you'll see that they've got a pretty strong agenda to push and that skews their view of things pretty badly. They participated in an unpopular war - it's fair comment that the Americans and their allies had no place being there. Even Robert McNamara admitted that they thought they were fighting communism and didn't realise they were fighting nationalism. As a result, they got much less respect than the veterans of any other war.
As for the change in recruitment policy, why not take a look at the general trend of change in warfare and the resulting effects on selection criteria? Back when I was in 1CDO, nobody wore glasses but now it's no longer an obstacle to selection. What with technology getting more complex and requiring less manpower, is it really surprising that the numbers and physical requirements are falling? I wouldn't go misattributing the trend to the wrong causes too quickly.
Bottom line: Think through all the factors and don't go generalising based on one war in one country, and proposing that it applies across Western nations.
Tell ya what - hop over the Tasman to my back yard and I'll show you plenty of people who have respect for the uniform and what it stands for, and not only on 25 April. Over here, your average joe is more than happy to hoist a pint to someone who serves or has served.
wow wow wow ask me to shut my bleeding mouth aye? for someone who has no experience in army stuff but come here to babble on and on on how easy army is and how she can easily handle it when she has absolutely no idea what some guys go thru,i wonder who is the one who should shut her fucking bleeding CB.Originally posted by mistyblue:You can shut your bleeding mouth.
Where is the insult. I asked again and again that WHAT is the Sort of RESPECt YOU people expect?
Then Would ANYONE of YOU respect OLD folks, Pregnant Ladies and Others? I always See NS men Take up the Seats on Trains and Buses where Old People, Kids and Pregnant ladies Stand around.
We respect that NS is tiring and never Wake up the fellow. The this NS fellow tell us to respect them. BY What, By How?
Nothing consturctive can be discussed with BOYS, whether they go through NS or Not.
I have more respect for the policy than NS.
yeah and flush out the girls who think they are more important just cause they have a bleeding CB and think we should only talk if we bleed every month....Originally posted by mistyblue:This thread can flush out all the guys around here who think they are more important than the rest just cause they do NS...
wow wow wow talking about narrow minded, you did that too in this thread,i see someone telling someone to talk to her only if he bleed every month if not shut upOriginally posted by mistyblue:all BOYS are the same.
Narrow minded and will tell people to Shut Up when they think another person did not experience it, then is considered Stupid.
Its the same, NONE of the BOYS will ever experience menses or pregnancy but all DISMISS it as EASY, No PAIN, RUSSBISH compared to all the "tough" stuff in NS. At least lots of women expeience real pregnancy than Boys who play in War games.
And i do not see any boys/men here who dismissed menses or pregnance as easy,no pain,rubbish.Show me where did any guy here said that?I only see a girl who think too much of herself and think NS is a very easy affairOriginally posted by mistyblue:This thread is not about whose knowledge of army is better.
Its about a NS guy telling civilians to respect him just because he has done NS.
So what if I had not done NS. Does not mean I am young and does not mean I need to go into NS.
It only means that I am the civilian who thinks BOYS like you make a mountain out of a mole hill. Unless you bleed every month, then you come and talk to me.
not just the minds, all the preparations had to be done and you seriouosly do not know that the Army units sometimes do c-o-c-kup a no of times during exercises and i myself have seen it...some of the exercise preparetions are even more last min than civil worlds out there, thinking is this the way it shld be?Originally posted by mistyblue:the real war is fought on the levels of the minds.
People are like this, come war, the women will volunteer in the medical areas, and the moral of the men to defend will peak. People will self organize and work together to fight and defend. Things had always been this way, all that planning in part is just to let the people have awareness and knowledge. Now is just exercise, people sure sian sian.
To me, I can take physical pains anytime. Its harder to take mental ones. So no matter how tough the environment, I know that I will not die, and will become stronger because of it. But I know that some men bully men in camps, some got raped. This is something no one admits but its real.
I wished that you know of the incidents of our MEN or perhaps in your case BOYS have died or suffered injuries which will forever affect their living. The dead are remembered but their suffering is gone along with them, only their living relatives feel the pain of losing them. The injured ones, like my friend who had to be forced to OOC from SISPEC due to a fractured arm, another in Taiwan fell the "wrong way" and had his thumb amputated. Think about it...their efforts, life and blood has been shed to make our country a safe one to live in. In short, what I mentioned does not exclude the women who have done their part.Originally posted by mistyblue:all BOYS are the same.
Narrow minded and will tell people to Shut Up when they think another person did not experience it, then is considered Stupid.
Its the same, NONE of the BOYS will ever experience menses or pregnancy but all DISMISS it as EASY, No PAIN, RUSSBISH compared to all the "tough" stuff in NS. At least lots of women expeience real pregnancy than Boys who play in War games.
I already told you, but you refused to acknowledge it because it doesn't fit your universe-revolves-around-me view.Originally posted by mistyblue:I asked again and again that WHAT is the Sort of RESPECt YOU people expect?
Well, I've got a different take on the situation, wisefool83. Over here, it's more a case of distrust for the politicians than it is of civilians despising the military. The general Australian view of things is that the government was to blame for the Vietnam mess, not the soldiers who got sent there.Originally posted by wisefool83:It is true that the Labour Government had cut the combat wing from the Air Force. But one can argue that its a symtom rather than a cause. Furthermore, although the Air Force's combat capability was removed, substantial funding was provided for the Army to purchase new equipment.
I must confess that my conversations with the Vets were hardly in-depth but I think you agree with me that a consequence of that war was that the civilians absolutely despise the military. What I'm saying in my previous posting was that this consequence's residue is still felt to a slight degree in this region.
I agree with you that there are many other factors that influenced the recruitment policies, but my point being that due to the deteriorating civil-military relationship, the military had to recuit from a wider circle, including grandmothers and foreigners. The factors that you listed which included technology made this recruitment possible but not necessary desirable. For example, with improved technology, I can recruit a man with less physically able, but it doesn't mean I would really like to recruit him, but only because I have to as nobody with a better physical wants to apply.
Of course, the statement that western society do not respect the military is flawed as we are unsure of the benchmark of respect, as in who should we compare it to? Both in terms of geographical and time dimension. As in, are we comparing western society to SAF or to Japan's SDF? Are we comparing the level of respect that they are getting now to the ones that they get in they were in WWII or just after Vietnam?
Nevertheless, I am willing to say now that I am not going to conclude that western society has less respect for their military but instead it remain a hypothesis which I will explore if chances arrive in the future. By the way, I do think that the Australia military is a rather unique case in current situation and I would love the chance to do a study on it given the chance and resources.
You mean women don't die from child birth? Death of any human being is a sad thing - no deny. So deaths as a result of duty is bad. Death from child birth is OK?Originally posted by SpecOps87:I wished that you know of the incidents of our MEN or perhaps in your case BOYS have died or suffered injuries which will forever affect their living. The dead are remembered but their suffering is gone along with them, only their living relatives feel the pain of losing them. The injured ones, like my friend who had to be forced to OOC from SISPEC due to a fractured arm, another in Taiwan fell the "wrong way" and had his thumb amputated. Think about it...their efforts, life and blood has been shed to make our country a safe one to live in. In short, what I mentioned does not exclude the women who have done their part.
As such, even though I am not from the SAF, I feel a sense of respect for both the Military and Law Enforcement communities for it is when "Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf" this quote pretty well sums up everything, while we have the freedom to downplay their role and comment on them wasting resources while going through their exercises, they still continue providing the sense of security to sleep peacefully at night. For that I am most thankful, for those who have died while on training or while conducting operations so unknown that it is in denialbility itself to ensure our freedom, I am most grateful.
Think about it before you say something and argue for arguments sake.Our men and women of the Military and Law Enforcement communities are willing to put their lives on the line for us, to hold guns and stand on that fence so that we can carry on with our daily lives and to preserve the soverignity of each and every inch of our soil.
Me me me me me me me me me. *yawn*Originally posted by mistyblue:You mean women don't die from child birth? Death of any human being is a sad thing - no deny. So deaths as a result of duty is bad. Death from child birth is OK?
The chance of death in SAF is lower than death travelling on the road.
Accidents do happen. So people tell us not to blame govt for our situation.
I also tell you not to blame civilians for your situation that men need to join NS. Its not a policy that the civilian draw up. Everyone has a choice, Defect, Give up citizenship, be Gay, join monkhood, study hard and get scholarship to be exempted, or sit in Jail. All are equal choices. In Life, no one owes another person a living. Everyone owe it to themselves to take care of themselves. My neighbour is a captain in the army and she also breaks her arm and legs. So when an accident happen to a female, its considered lesser important?
People in certain industry also get cancer, lost an arm or leg, or get robbed or killed. There are also all those Bangalas and PRC who die in construction. So their families back home also not sad meh? Those people are also heros mah. They work for the economy, for their families. Why does it seem that NS seem greater and more important? Would our guys prefer to be sent to temples and enter monk-hood for 2 years? In any army, there are always accidents and deaths but in Singapore, our army do not need to be activated and is forever in exercise mode. At least the internal defence, force gets activated and is operational more often than the army.
I do not think anyone should take for granted our SAF can defend us. To me, I will defend my family if there is a need. Who can wait for SAF. Sense of security, I hope its not a false sense.
To me, I sleep in my bed cause I know we are rich enough to buy expensive defense equipment, missles, weapons and spend it on training men to make sure we do not look like we are easy targets. I sleep well because I know we forge strong ties with US, Isreal and other strong nations by having their investments in Singapore so that the neighbouring countries will think twice about striking us without strong counterstrike from these other countries. I sleep well because through our economic success and abilities to make this region boom, we give our neighbours less reasons to strike us and more reason to cooperate with us. Remember, we will never have enough men to fight any war like China. We rely on other strategies and we rely on the power of money to buy the best equipment and best training environment for our men.
Its total defense. SAF is just a small part. You do not like people to belittle the contribution of the guys in NS, then do not belittle the contribution of all the rest who work towards our economy. We are all interlinked together in ways - it is easy to talk louder and boast about one's contribution in NS because it is clear cut. It is harder to state the contribution of people not in NS because it is not as clear cut. I do not think people in NS is not great and I expect NS guys to have the maturity to realise the bigger picture as well. I have friends in army, Majors, Captains, Commandos, SAF seniors officers, SAF logistics, HR Officers, Hokkien Sergent and whatever you name them and I address them all as uncles. But, they also recognize the contribution everyone makes to the total security of this country.