Airborne Training / School
-
It does, and the unit's called Commmandos. You didn't think 1 CDO specialises in being the guard of honour at the NDP, did you?Originally posted by ipcommander:Some how I wish that the SAF could have an Airborne unit.
I'm not sure what it takes to qualify these days, but in my time it was seven jumps. IIRC it was two day clean-fatigue jumps, two day equipment jumps, two night clean jumps and one night equipment jump. -
Oh u're wrong, now no more ncc 'wing', all standard saf airborne wing. They dun get a chance to jump airborne anymore unless they join the CDO, sign on NDU or SOF. Cos these 3 need to clear combat jump.Originally posted by Short Ninja:Ok I have to admit that my knowledge is outdated here.NCC cadets had their wings inscribed with the letters NCC(if i am not wrong) and for them it was just a confidence course.However they do need to go for a refresher course/more jumps to qualify for the standard wing.Cdos and other units went for the same course,where got ? 2 days jumps and 1 night jump in clean fatique some more!!.Geez how could I know? I left the SAF in the 80s.Thanks for the info anyways. -
Thank you for clearing the part about the NCC Wing.Originally posted by relgn:Oh u're wrong, now no more ncc 'wing', all standard saf airborne wing. They dun get a chance to jump airborne anymore unless they join the CDO, sign on NDU or SOF. Cos these 3 need to clear combat jump. -
What you mean?Originally posted by relgn:They dun get a chance to jump airborne anymore unless they join the CDO, sign on NDU or SOF.
-
Because they already got the basic airborne wing liao so wat for allowing them to go for the course again. Unless they enlist to CDO, sign on NDU or SOF which require them to jump combat equipment. This is wat i heard from the course WO larh. get it?Originally posted by wonderamazement:What you mean? -
Oh kk... Din see the combat jump part...Originally posted by relgn:Because they already got the basic airborne wing liao so wat for allowing them to go for the course again. Unless they enlist to CDO, sign on NDU or SOF which require them to jump combat equipment. This is wat i heard from the course WO larh. get it?
-
Just to clarify-Singapore doesn't really have a real "Special Forces" unit like the US SEALS or UK SAS/SBS that does HALO/HAHO jumps right?
The commandos, NDU and guards are just basically superman super-trained infantry/divers, but not special missions capable right?
N.B. Discounting the SOF because of it's size, and because it's so small in a war it can be at most deployed in one place at once (Forgive me for my terrible army knowledge) -
I believe they do conduct HALO/HAHO ops... I've seen a CDO MSG with an Australian Freefall badge...Originally posted by chanjyj:Just to clarify-Singapore doesn't really have a real "Special Forces" unit like the US SEALS or UK SAS/SBS that does HALO/HAHO jumps right?
The commandos, NDU and guards are just basically superman super-trained infantry/divers, but not special missions capable right?
N.B. Discounting the SOF because of it's size, and because it's so small in a war it can be at most deployed in one place at once (Forgive me for my terrible army knowledge) -
SAF's SF Units do conduct HALO, HAHO type jumps. Do note that Guards are not superman super-trained infantry, they are more like Cavalry. Lightly armed, but capable for quick insertions into key locations in the battlefield to turn the tide of the battle. The role they serve is not much unlike Armour. Both are cavalry, except that the Guards are Air Mobile.Originally posted by chanjyj:Just to clarify-Singapore doesn't really have a real "Special Forces" unit like the US SEALS or UK SAS/SBS that does HALO/HAHO jumps right?
The commandos, NDU and guards are just basically superman super-trained infantry/divers, but not special missions capable right?
N.B. Discounting the SOF because of it's size, and because it's so small in a war it can be at most deployed in one place at once (Forgive me for my terrible army knowledge) -
Nono.. I think I was misunderstood
I know there are some who get those badges (American Wings etc), but the whole group of commandos i.e. 1st CDO Btn is not a special forces group right? It's just highly trained infantry, comparable to maybe the American Rangers.
I'm also a bit confused why most CDOs don't go for ranger sch in the US, when the US Rangers themselves are considered only "special-ops capable" and not special forces.
So can we say that our Singapore commandos are just highly trained infantry/airborne troops who are special-ops capable but aren't special forces themselves, and our only "true" Special forces group will be the SOF (In peace and war)? No offence to any Commando/NDU/Guards. I have friends in there.
Forgive my terrible "lawyers writing". I'm been typing my proposals the past few hours and can't seem to get that "official" tone of voice out of my system.
Ponders/Gedanken wish to tell this noob here more? (I do surf this forum, only I don't post anything) -
Can sign up for pirvate course to have it done in
Australia but have to pay and sign a risk taking form.....
-
The Commandos' role is similar to the US Army Rangers. Strike teams that deploy behind enemy lines for quick raids before heavier elements roll in to secure/or mop-up.
Strike and exfil/move on.
SOF would be SFG-Delta in comparative role/scope.
Our Guardsmen, in my opinion, are like Marines in their roles. (I may not be totally right)Coastal/amphibious operations and heli-borne ops backed up by light armor and airstrike teams. -
Disagree. You must remember that the Organization of the SAF was/is based on the British Army.Originally posted by LazerLordz:
The Commandos' role is similar to the US Army Rangers. Strike teams that deploy behind enemy lines for quick raids before heavier elements roll in to secure/or mop-up.
Strike and exfil/move on.
SOF would be SFG-Delta in comparative role/scope.Our Guardsmen, in my opinion, are like Marines in their roles. (I may not be totally right)Coastal/amphibious operations and heli-borne ops backed up by light armor and airstrike teams.
The Marines are simply Troops working for the navy, nothing more. They were derived, i think, from the British Army's Royal Marine Commandos though they have evolved alot from that.
As I said, it seems clear that the Guards are based on the British Army's Parachute Regiment - elite infantry with a rigourous selection process (the guards have some kind of assault course they have to do and the GCC, the Parachute Regiment has a 3-week selection process called P-company), primarily used as a rapid reaction force. Hence I was not surprised to hear that parachute trg was an idea toyed with. I think there was even a Guards Pathfinder platoon in the past (not sure about now) showing yet more similarity with the Para. Regiment.
In fact, the name 'Guards' hints at their British Heirtage. In the British ARmy, 'Guards' units (eg. the Scots Guards, the Coldstream Guards, Welsh Guards, etc) are used as ceremonial guards at eg Buckingham Palace. This was essentially what the SAF guards were doing prior to their present reincarnation.
*my opinion.
-
So a quick check:
Roles/Capabilities
Guards=Elite Infantry SOF=Special Forces (Not special-operations capable) NDU=? Commandos=?
Comparison to British Units (N.B. My opinion) Guards=Royal Parachute Regiment (Paras) NDU=Special Boat Squadron (SBS) Commandos=? (I don't think you can say SAS because I highly doubt our commandos are or SAS standard) SOF=?
Fill in all the question marks with your opinions -
You may be right about our Guardsmen, but I'm still more convinced that our Commandos' role is closer to that of the Army Rangers.Originally posted by scabstermooch:Disagree. You must remember that the Organization of the SAF was/is based on the British Army.
The Marines are simply Troops working for the navy, nothing more. They were derived, i think, from the British Army's Royal Marine Commandos though they have evolved alot from that.
As I said, it seems clear that the Guards are based on the British Army's Parachute Regiment - elite infantry with a rigourous selection process (the guards have some kind of assault course they have to do and the GCC, the Parachute Regiment has a 3-week selection process called P-company), primarily used as a rapid reaction force. Hence I was not surprised to hear that parachute trg was an idea toyed with. I think there was even a Guards Pathfinder platoon in the past (not sure about now) showing yet more similarity with the Para. Regiment.
In fact, the name 'Guards' hints at their British Heirtage. In the British ARmy, 'Guards' units (eg. the Scots Guards, the Coldstream Guards, Welsh Guards, etc) are used as ceremonial guards at eg Buckingham Palace. This was essentially what the SAF guards were doing prior to their present reincarnation.
*my opinion. -
SIZE?Originally posted by chanjyj:Just to clarify-Singapore doesn't really have a real "Special Forces" unit like the US SEALS or UK SAS/SBS that does HALO/HAHO jumps right?
The commandos, NDU and guards are just basically superman super-trained infantry/divers, but not special missions capable right?
N.B. Discounting the SOF because of it's size, and because it's so small in a war it can be at most deployed in one place at once (Forgive me for my terrible army knowledge)
how big is the size of SEALS, SBS/SAS
-
Update, Guards Pathfinder platoon no more, Pathfinder Coy. YES. In reserve under BDE orbat. very much active as in call back yearly.Originally posted by scabstermooch:Disagree. You must remember that the Organization of the SAF was/is based on the British Army.
The Marines are simply Troops working for the navy, nothing more. They were derived, i think, from the British Army's Royal Marine Commandos though they have evolved alot from that.
As I said, it seems clear that the Guards are based on the British Army's Parachute Regiment - elite infantry with a rigourous selection process (the guards have some kind of assault course they have to do and the GCC, the Parachute Regiment has a 3-week selection process called P-company), primarily used as a rapid reaction force. Hence I was not surprised to hear that parachute trg was an idea toyed with. I think there was even a Guards Pathfinder platoon in the past (not sure about now) showing yet more similarity with the Para. Regiment.
In fact, the name 'Guards' hints at their British Heirtage. In the British ARmy, 'Guards' units (eg. the Scots Guards, the Coldstream Guards, Welsh Guards, etc) are used as ceremonial guards at eg Buckingham Palace. This was essentially what the SAF guards were doing prior to their present reincarnation.
*my opinion. -
wad is pathfinder? Are you referring to the recce coy of BDE and scout platoon of the GDS BN?
-
Pathfinders are initial insertion teams sent in to mark out possible landing sites for heli insertions, airborne drops, etc. They do not conduct recon as in enemy despositions as per se.Originally posted by equlus84:wad is pathfinder? Are you referring to the recce coy of BDE and scout platoon of the GDS BN? -
That job is left to the recon and scouts, or commandos on LRRP.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:Pathfinders are initial insertion teams sent in to mark out possible landing sites for heli insertions, airborne drops, etc. They do not conduct recon as in enemy despositions as per se. -
CommandoOriginally posted by chanjyj:So a quick check:
Roles/Capabilities Guards=Elite Infantry SOF=Special Forces (Not special-operations capable) NDU=? Commandos=?
Comparison to British Units (N.B. My opinion) Guards=Royal Parachute Regiment (Paras) NDU=Special Boat Squadron (SBS) Commandos=? (I don't think you can say SAS because I highly doubt our commandos are or SAS standard) SOF=?
Fill in all the question marks with your opinions
Commando role is probably...Commando! I think the concept was pioneered by the British Army in WWII - Basically light infantry trained to get in fast, attack and withdraw before the enemy could properly react. US Army rangers are based on British Army Commandos; Infact the first batch of US Army Rangers were trained by British Army commandos. The British Army Commandos are no more now but the role has been taken up by the Royal Marine Commandos.
Our Commando have of course evolved a little in that they do LRRPs - I think in other armies, LRRPs are usually left to SF.
The British Army Equivalent would be the Royal Marine Commandos - New recruits undergo about 8-9 months training to become royal marine commandos. Today though they seem to do very little commando-type things and they are used primarily as elite infantry, much like the parachute regiment.
I suspect that were Singapore to go to war, we would do the same.
SOF
The British Army equivalent would be the SAS though as some have pointed out the SAS has far wider capabilities.
----
Btw, it is the Parachute Regiment, not the Royal Parachute Regiment. -
Btw, it is the Parachute Regiment, not the Royal Parachute Regiment.
My bad. I came to the conclusion that for the UK everything is prefixed with "Royal"Commando role is probably...Commando! I think the concept was pioneered by the British Army in WWII - Basically light infantry trained to get in fast, attack and withdraw before the enemy could properly react.
Er..... That sounds very much like the guards leh. I always thought that was what the guards did. I am super blur on where the lines is drawn between guards and commandos now.
Anyone here can elaborate what the NDU really does? I haven't the faintest idea what kind of operations they actually do. In fact I think the Royal Marine Commandos would be the better description of the NDU rather than the CDO. -
we conduct local as in LZs and DZs AO recon. A coy of Pathfinders (numbers withhold) to do recon on LZ for 3+1 LS isn't any easy jobs and to add on a DZ for resup. Hell it will be.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:Pathfinders are initial insertion teams sent in to mark out possible landing sites for heli insertions, airborne drops, etc. They do not conduct recon as in enemy despositions as per se.
enemy heavy activities in and around the AO will put landing OPS in a tied windows. Any single man out of action will add on work loads on the coy.
Pathfinder land blind, hours later follow by Sniper, LRRP and BRC than battalions scout. Day or days later than the landing force,
Hell the top knows what they are doing... ??????? maybe the top CDOs knows.
First In, Last Out. -
Originally posted by Joshua1975:
Correct me if I'm wrong. Sniper and LRRP are division assets, but I don't think they will be deployed together. I think they act seperately, in different capacities and functions.
Pathfinder land blind, hours later follow by Sniper, LRRP and BRC than battalions scout. Day or days later than the landing force,
Hell the top knows what they are doing... ??????? maybe the top CDOs knows.
Sniper is primarily a front-line unit, aka, they stay ahead of friendly forces to "scout ahead", but remain infront of the enemy's front. However, LRRP will be inserted behind the enemy's front, and may not be involved directly in the emminent attack. They may be monitering the enemy's reaction to the attack and how they redeploy forces, checking if enemy reinforcements/new troops coming in, etc.
The battalion level scouts are a diff matter altogether, they deploy shortly ahead of the battalion only, help to determine method of attack, enemy positions, and do not act idependently of the parent unit. -
I dun think Guards specialise in Raids - perhaps some ex-guardsmen can pipe in.Originally posted by chanjyj:[/color] Er..... That sounds very much like the guards leh. I always thought that was what the guards did. I am super blur on where the lines is drawn between guards and commandos now.
Anyone here can elaborate what the NDU really does? I haven't the faintest idea what kind of operations they actually do. In fact I think the Royal Marine Commandos would be the better description of the NDU rather than the CDO.
I am also not sure what the NDU really does - probably recce in general and beach recce? The british equivalent however is not the Royal Marine Commandos - the RM is elite infantry under the Navy with a commando role. They also specialise/keep themselves updated on Arctic warfare.
Edit: RSN website says:
"NDU is responsible for all diving operations, which include general and combat diving operations, explosive ordnance disposal and mine disposal for the SAF. It comprises the Diving School, Clearance Diving Group, Underwater Demolition Group, and Combat DIving Group..."