ROD? Manpower Not Enough!: PES E Now Need Go Back Reservist
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i can't wait to see u pes e bashers getting disease-stricken one day...lol
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are you trying to become another stookieOriginally posted by ALEX.TO:i can't wait to see u pes e bashers getting disease-stricken one day...lol
read my siggy
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all these talk about pes e solder being cannon fodder and dying first, saving best for last etc. is very degrading. bitches
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Originally posted by allentyb:its a myth
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relax. regardless of ur pes status, we r all comrades-in-arms if there is ever a war.Originally posted by ALEX.TO:all these talk about pes e solder being cannon fodder and dying first, saving best for last etc. is very degrading. bitches -
im a pes b la...wat i want to say, dont look down on them..they r human too...cheersOriginally posted by monoslayer:relax. regardless of ur pes status, we r all comrades-in-arms if there is ever a war. -
looks like my boy here is touchy...
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Please, no PES rivalry here.
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u wan me touch u ar?Originally posted by R3SsH|n:looks like my boy here is touch...
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pes e status is about the fitness to exercise, not necessary really applies to the fitness to handle weapons.
i.e .pes status is not really the best way to decide someone's functions in the SAF . unfortunately it is often used a broad administrative convenience. -
I am not doubting the resolve of our PES E soldiers to fight but the thing is with the medical condition they already have, it becomes a liability rather than an edge.Originally posted by freedom4ever:i didn't mention sending them to the front line. i was saying that they should be able to fend for themselves rather than being target and unable to fight back due to dunno how to handle weapon.
Dun need to think so far like in war time, the annual range would do, just imagine sending a guy with history with fits and ask him to do a walk down in the range then half-way thru his fits acts up, not only he endanger himself, he risk the ppl around him doing the walk down also. Or sending a PES E soldier with mental problem one, u really trust him with a weapon?
Then again, if u want them to fend for themselves, then they shld be subjected to same arms training, this will already contradicts their PES status since their PES status already dictates what they can or cannot do physically. You must remember these are PES E ppl and not PES C, if they can fight with their medical condition they shld be already PES C and not PES E. -
when u're in ops and you really require manpower....does it even matter then?
perhaps they should, as someone recommended, be trained in small firearms.
The will the live will often, although not usually, overcome any physcial disability a pes e person might have.
but let me emphasise that this is only in times of dire crisis, trying to train pes e soldiers in peace time will only lead to more service injuries and uncalled for media attention
cheers -
ya. you did have a point there. but what about those that the TS has mention? some of them are able to handle weapon. and i dun mean all PES E should go for range. maybe review them case by case. what about giving them a different type of annual range that doesn't require them to run down. just to let them have a feel of how to shoot will do.Originally posted by octega:I am not doubting the resolve of our PES E soldiers to fight but the thing is with the medical condition they already have, it becomes a liability rather than an edge.
Dun need to think so far like in war time, the annual range would do, just imagine sending a guy with history with fits and ask him to do a walk down in the range then half-way thru his fits acts up, not only he endanger himself, he risk the ppl around him doing the walk down also. Or sending a PES E soldier with mental problem one, u really trust him with a weapon?
Then again, if u want them to fend for themselves, then they shld be subjected to same arms training, this will already contradicts their PES status since their PES status already dictates what they can or cannot do physically. You must remember these are PES E ppl and not PES C, if they can fight with their medical condition they shld be already PES C and not PES E. -
Does SAF have enough rifles ? I know Switzerland does, because after national Service, they get to take their rifles home, as part of the equipment.
When the button is pressed in Switzerland, everyone steps out of their house in full gear, including weapons.
When the button is pressed in Singapore, people dressed in soldier's costumes are without arms yet.
Are we really prepared (without arms) ? -
i tot pes E can shoot depending on the landcode .
u c har , L3 can shoot right ?
but hw they learn sh00ting , the induction exercises sooo short .
unless u tio L9 .
some pes E can do simple physical activities like marching , only some cant .... -
as long you are PES e straight from the start of your enlisted, you wouldn't get a chance to learn about arms, during that time, i was enlisted, i was the last bunch that doesn't need to go to tekong, 1 month without uniform at allOriginally posted by Taiwanpolitics:i tot pes E can shoot depending on the landcode .
u c har , L3 can shoot right ?
but hw they learn sh00ting , the induction exercises sooo short .
unless u tio L9 .
some pes E can do simple physical activities like marching , only some cant ....
even you get a chance to go to tekong, its only 7 days of sightseeing
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Then it goes back to my point that arms handling is not just know how to strip and put back the weapon, point and shoot. And many times, it requires physical stuff, and PES E being usually deploy in offices, basically, u are asking them to know about Fighting In Build-Up Area (FIBUA, which PES C dun even do), these all requires training and many times physical stuff (even u dun do it with the M16).Originally posted by freedom4ever:ya. you did have a point there. but what about those that the TS has mention? some of them are able to handle weapon. and i dun mean all PES E should go for range. maybe review them case by case. what about giving them a different type of annual range that doesn't require them to run down. just to let them have a feel of how to shoot will do.
The thing is the medical review done before and during ur NS period. This brings me back to my point earlier, if these soldiers can fight with their medical condition then they should be already be graded PES C, the fact that they are given PES E means their medical condition even prevents them to do arms handling. -
i tink a more relevant example will be in a scenario whereby there's a pes E clerk holding a m16 wif a mag of 30 rounds n an unarmed enemy soldier is approaching him wif a parang at 50metres.
pro:
it will be gd if the clerk noes how to c.ock the rifle n takes an aimmed shot at the enemy.
con:
like wat 1 of the forumer had said, pes E is often related to mental problem n physical problem. it wont be gd if the clerk starts going berserk n shooting frenly forces n then himself.
wat's worse is that he's CO's PA n when his mental problem sets in, he shoots the CO when CO is having a coffee.
the above r all painted in a wartime scenario.
*edited "c.ock" -
ask them to clean the rifle for PES A ppl
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Originally posted by sgboy2005:ask them to clean the rifle for PES A ppl
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u PES wahtOriginally posted by allentyb: -
Originally posted by allentyb:
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TS meant that Pes E should be trained in small arms to defend themselves in case they are under attacked and they should at least have minimal training.
But seriously, even ppl who passed Pes A bmt are themselves not ready to fight back. Fighting back when attacked take some form of training and getting used to. It is not mentally easy to just fight back when attacked.
Take the Jessica Lynch example. She and her convoy are combat-support and went thru combat BMT. Even with BMT training, her convoy was easily overwhelmed and captured.
So in my view, PES E can't do much even when trained how to shoot.
I feel their chances of survival surrendering and becoming a POW is much higher than trying to live fighting the enemy.
If it gets to the point where the enemy can even reach PES E personnel.... it is a sign that the war is being lost. -
I basically agree with Ponders.Originally posted by Ponders:TS meant that Pes E should be trained in small arms to defend themselves in case they are under attacked and they should at least have minimal training.
But seriously, even ppl who passed Pes A bmt are themselves not ready to fight back. Fighting back when attacked take some form of training and getting used to. It is not mentally easy to just fight back when attacked.
Take the Jessica Lynch example. She and her convoy are combat-support and went thru combat BMT. Even with BMT training, her convoy was easily overwhelmed and captured.
So in my view, PES E can't do much even when trained how to shoot.
I feel their chances of survival surrendering and becoming a POW is much higher than trying to live fighting the enemy.
If it gets to the point where the enemy can even reach PES E personnel.... it is a sign that the war is being lost.
There are only a few ways that enemy can reach PES E people who are behind front lines.
1. Special Forces insertion and raid
2. Somehow our defence lines had a gap and we got flanked by the enemy. But SG size is so small...
Back to the point. If it's SF raid, then PES stand no chance. therefore, firearms not necessary.
If it's normal forces, giving the PES E people some kind of firearm will help. Not really physically, more or a morale boost such that you don't go round thinking in war time that "I'm unarmed, I cannot defend myself".
that said, Don't give M16s to PES E people. Give them something easy to use, and something lighter to use. (That is, if SG every willing to spend the cash). MP5 will be fine in the close quarters of a building. (The PES E will not be running out in the open will they?) Furthermore, don't forget that the PES E will NOT be wearing SBO/LBV and Fieldpack and whatnot... it's even lighter for them. All they are carrying will be the gun and the magazines. Give em a chance.
For those PES E with epilepsy, I just want to clarify a point. If they go into fits it's unlikely that they will continue to hold down the trigger during a fit. The main worry is grenades. If the pull the pin and then go into a fit, gone case.
Why bother about FIBUA training for PES E? the weapon/firearm you give them is already a LAST RESORT. -
I'm for training PES E soldiers who are mentally sound to use the SIG P226 or the carbine for personal protection.
But this can be done in a jiffy during wartime scenario.