MINDEF/ SAF Senior Commanders
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So you dun believe rite?Originally posted by nightzip:If capt = 40 yrs old, then major = 45 yrs old, then half-colonel=50 yrs old, then col = 55 yrs old, then those generals are octogenarians?
And the 3-4 stars generals are century man.... This was in 1994 when I was in ROC. While q up in the cookhse for lunch, a few taiwanese soldiers chatting wif me. 
A Capt will be in his late 30s or almost 40 yrs of aged. A Major in his mid/late 40s, LTC and a COL in his late40s/early 50s. Its a fact in ROC, all GENERALs are in their mid or late 50s. Neber see before meh? Go ask any taiwanese who did their NS. -
It's sheer arrogance to merely pick the worse of the US Army and pitch it against the best of what the SAF can do.
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While I'm not entirely familiar with the inner mechanisms of the Singapore army, it is not hard to understand where the author's coming from.
Think about it : in most developed countries, the leaders of the respective armed forces are schooled in military academies preparing them for a career in the military (and that includes the world's leading military force, that of the US) and not one in another domain, only to be deployed in the military later on.
While one might draw parallels that the likes of Colin Power has transited from military leadership to a top post in a civilian administration, it doesn't alter the fact the system, by and large, trains individuals for that particular field (you don't see top US generals having been schooled at Harvard and Yale Law School for instance) - in essence, anyone with ability in a given field can rise through the ranks to the highest post of a given field in the US. That, unfortunately, can hardly be said about Singapore - let's face it, Colin Powell would never have become a general if he'd been born in Singapore since the posts of generals are reserved primarily for the academically-inclined who might not have the slightest nuances/acumen for the military...
To better get a grasp of what the author is driving at, try imagining having a Harvard Law School graduate administer treatment to you if you had cancer... -
Frankly, I dun see the point why some of you are for the US bugger. US and SG are two different countries with two different defense policy.
What if our CPTs are 40s and our BGs are 60s. Can they command better in wars or plan better strategies?
So what if you have a war-experienced BGs with war-experienced officers leading NS soldiers to battle? Would we fight better?
So is anyone suggesting we participate in future wars, so that our soldiers are "battle harden" with "war experience"? The idea wun even make it through government as your parents will complain like mad!!!
Something I've read some wise guy in a book about the cold war (which I can't remember) talks about experience and effectiveness is not related in a linear graph; but convex. There is a point where increase in experience is not proportionally equal to increase in effectiveness. If this is true, then tiger woods would never have won anyone older and started playing golf earlier than him.
So what if a particular sales agent has 20 years of sales experience, it is not to say he'll win the younger junior sales execs every month.
The key is not so much about experience. It's about ability. -
i think this article need to study from the perspective from military standpoint not poltical or race. Nevertheless it could be a point the US is trying to point out that Mindef need to seriously consider the experience issue.
but I think there are 2 keys area that need to address by SAF.
The experience issue. The question become should we send our career solider in harms way to learn the hard knock of War to gain the knowledge of battlefield. No matter how realistics is the training, it is always different when a person is go thru war zone.
2nd is the racial card issue. It is clear that any conflict arise with neighbouring country will touch on race. Gov has always face a delima as they discovered that if we are more Singaporean we are less lean towards the chinese heritage, less value on the chinese tradition and its value, and all its virture will be lost, including Indian and Malay, at least the next few generation will reflect that characteristics.
but the more racial divide we are, we are less of a nation. - Singaporean.
I recall couple of years ago when the Malay parent were trying to insist on the headscarf. CNN reported them as Malaysian. But they were Singapore citizen with ethnic Malay. Not Malaysian.
So the world outside cannot tell the different between a Singapore malay vs a Malaysian. -
MINDEF's reply is certainly very diplomatic. Who can blame them. It's only a sensible thing to do.
Truth is there are no malays in armour and artillery. And check out their numbers in Police and Civil Defence.
Anyway, young may mean inexperience but it does not equate to a lack of ability. One may be old but he could just be a stubborn old co.ck too. If one thinks that a person may hold senior appointments based on age seniority, then may no one pity this sheer ignorance. -
no lah, we r very well trained in the urban jungle, we can find food here anytimeOriginally posted by soulwinner:Of Course SAF hold certain prestige... Not all armed force in the world are as organise as SAF... We might lack the experience but many of our troops are well versed in jungle warfare...
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there r damn few malay officers in the armed force that's for sure.
once, i went to a OCS pass out parade, there is only 1 malay out of a cohort of 200+ -
wonder many usa generals had war exp.well there are more malay soccer players in the national team.guess malay like soccer as carrer
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2nd is the racial card issue. It is clear that any conflict arise with neighbouring country will touch on race. Gov has always face a delima as they discovered that if we are more Singaporean we are less lean towards the chinese heritage, less value on the chinese tradition and its value, and all its virture will be lost, including Indian and Malay, at least the next few generation will reflect that characteristics.
Is being more Singaporean a bad thing? Why should we always put race and ethnicity above building a common identity?
Go think about it. Who loses out if the people are united and bonded from the citizen up, and not top down. -
A gentle reminder, any posts that are racist in nature will be removed
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Actually I don't get it.Originally posted by matleep:I thought its better for malays to be marginalise in certain sensitive vocations. In times of war, they would not need to be in the frontline killing people with the same race as them.
Aren't the majority of the Malays deployed in the SIRs?
They will be at the frontline killing people with the same race as them.
At least pilot bomb people don't need to see face. -
since when there r malay commandos?
any current commandos wanna comment? -
how many chinese are there in neighbouring forces?Originally posted by binZ:chinese killing chinese is ok? -.-"
use ur brain. -
arty got malays...Originally posted by Rock^Star:MINDEF's reply is certainly very diplomatic. Who can blame them. It's only a sensible thing to do.
Truth is there are no malays in armour and artillery. And check out their numbers in Police and Civil Defence.
Anyway, young may mean inexperience but it does not equate to a lack of ability. One may be old but he could just be a stubborn old co.ck too. If one thinks that a person may hold senior appointments based on age seniority, then may no one pity this sheer ignorance.
the gunners...
men oni uh...havent seen malay commanders in arty....
armour....dun have -
Originally posted by Kenashi:no lah, we r very well trained in the urban jungle, we can find food here anytime
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I have a few malay friends in armour & he told me that b'cos some Armour camps are located at places which used to be pig farms(pork is not hahal) so SAF send them to other camps/units instead.Originally posted by Rockhound:arty got malays...
the gunners...
men oni uh...havent seen malay commanders in arty....
armour....dun have -
Originally posted by binZ:
Where did you get this info from? (Pls see those in Bold)
crap..
it is a fact that malays are indeed kept out of sensitive appointments and vocations..
try asking a malay friend to go to cmpb and say that he want to sign on as an airforce technican, pilot, intelligence spec or commando. If he is not rejected, i buy u lunch.
[b]It is a known fact that the only malays in air bases are Air Emergency Services (SCDF people) and that the cookhouse dont even cater to muslim food.
I remember.. a few yrs back. .during the RSAF open house, our defence minister make it a point to talk, shake hand with one malay fighter pilot.. becos he is the only one malay in that
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Have you ever been in an Air Base?
What are the basis for your assumption?
PLEASE GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT BEFORE POSTING SUCH COMMENTS!!!
IT IS INGORANT PPL LIKE YOU WHO POST BLINDLY THAT CAUSE RACIAL TENSION!!!
I have worked in TAB for >7 years and i can vouch with my life that we have a Muslim section in the cookhouse. -
tab have muslim section becoz got a malay f-16 pilotOriginally posted by PaeFans:Where did you get this info from? (Pls see those in Bold)
Have you ever been in an Air Base?
What are the basis for your assumption?
PLEASE GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT BEFORE POSTING SUCH COMMENTS!!!
IT IS INGORANT PPL LIKE YOU WHO POST BLINDLY THAT CAUSE RACIAL TENSION!!!
I have worked in TAB for >7 years and i can vouch with my life that we have a Muslim section in the cookhouse.
plab only have 1 prata shop malay auntie
malay firemens
the occasional malay ST technician that tow plane from opposite ST to plab hanger
ps: thats almost 4 yrs ago -
For that repeatedly asked question why no Malays here and there in the SAF.
Firstly, there are Malays in the SAF since the begining, and before the begining of NS, up till now at most levels.
Secondly, Singapore will not put a person at a position because of his race.
Thirdly, ask, do qualified Malays want a position they are qualified for?
Fourth, those that fail, in qualification, aptitude, fitness, medical, etc always cite some bias or discrimination.
Fifth, how many Malays are there in Singapore, of that number how many, a year come of age, of that number, how many have the necessary qualifications, of that number, how many wish to be commandos, tankies, navymen, airmen, officers, of that number, how many score enough to to be selected.
Sixth, Singapore Malays do not want to be a "special lobo" in the SAF, put in place just for show.
Seven, those that ask why no Malays here and there, should examine themselves. They are just out to stir up some resentment. -
Well, I can say that my Ordnance Systems Supervisor was Malay, not to mention a heck of a lot of Tech Specs are Malay.
But we've got to stop raising the tension. -
This is a very interesting point and offers some food for thought.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Anyway, young may mean inexperience but it does not equate to a lack of ability. One may be old but he could just be a stubborn old co.ck too. If one thinks that a person may hold senior appointments based on age seniority, then may no one pity this sheer ignorance.
I don't think the author(of the original article) questions the ability of the generals you have here, but rather, are they effectively deployed and are they capable of doing the job they have at hand? Afterall, if you were to analyse the generals of many first-world nations, most of them are schooled exclusively at military institutions(ie.such militaries operate on the basis that academic excellence is not necessarily indicative of one's military potential).
Hence, the author's suggestion of deploying a scholar(with an academic background) in a military environment being akin to deploying a lawyer to do a doctor's job is not something completely disconnected from reality... -
No lah....all officers go through Officer cadet school, war games, war strategies, human management, weapons system, senior officer school, etc, etc, etc....Originally posted by walesa:This is a very interesting point and offers some food for thought.
I don't think the author(of the original article) questions the ability of the generals you have here, but rather, are they effectively deployed and are they capable of doing the job they have at hand? Afterall, if you were to analyse the generals of many first-world nations, most of them are schooled exclusively at military institutions(ie.such militaries operate on the basis that academic excellence is not necessarily indicative of one's military potential).
Hence, the author's suggestion of deploying a scholar(with an academic background) in a military environment being akin to deploying a lawyer to do a doctor's job is not something completely disconnected from reality...
further why scholars cannot be officers??? huh? why? huh? huh?
must officers be from ah bengs? those no brainers who only wished to fight and those violent types?
whoever thought that high ranked officers in SAF are directly from academic universities??????? Must be some ignorant american..
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have u been to ADOC at CPC?Originally posted by PaeFans:Where did you get this info from? (Pls see those in Bold)
Have you ever been in an Air Base?
What are the basis for your assumption?
PLEASE GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT BEFORE POSTING SUCH COMMENTS!!!
IT IS INGORANT PPL LIKE YOU WHO POST BLINDLY THAT CAUSE RACIAL TENSION!!!
I have worked in TAB for >7 years and i can vouch with my life that we have a Muslim section in the cookhouse. -
But none in STAero. Another vocation is drivers.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Well, I can say that my Ordnance Systems Supervisor was Malay, not to mention a heck of a lot of Tech Specs are Malay.
But we've got to stop raising the tension.