MINDEF/ SAF Senior Commanders
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Hmm.Originally posted by ^tamago^:But none in STAero. Another vocation is drivers.
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One fact remains, there is totally 100% malays in the RMAF, or rather mostly muslims in their armed forces. I have never seen a Chinese in their armed forces, excluding those going through their National Service. Well, if you say muslims can't kill muslims, then the terrorist would not have kill other muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then wad about the Indonesian Confrontation? I believe some of those indonesian commandos have killed some muslims right?
Another point to note, Singapore generals do not go to military academys to learn about military, most of them are president scholars or SAF scholars, This point we cannot deny. IF any of us here really do go and enrol ourselves in military academies, do we stand a chance of being a General in Singapore? Well, I would say no.
My point is, many things done and said are mostly not applicable in Singapore context as we live in a diffrent environment and are brought up with a diffrent mindset.
Just a point to think about, Would you sacrifice your life for Singapore if it is under attack by foreign army? If yes, y did you not sign on in the SAF? -
We have to address the skewed numbers of scholar-officers heading to non-military courses, and stem further flooding of the Civil Service and the GLCs with ex-scholar officers.
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I still think the critical aspect is should our career military leader have real experience to lead our man or simply paper pusher.
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I know a few Chinese in Malaysia Armed Forces, rank of Captain and Major, using Chinese names. They are mainly in the training wings. But I think to be an instructor, you need to be operational first. So, you got your facts wrong.Originally posted by acwire_2125:One fact remains, there is totally 100% malays in the RMAF, or rather mostly muslims in their armed forces. I have never seen a Chinese in their armed forces, excluding those going through their National Service. -
[quote]Originally posted by acwire_2125:
[b]Another point to note, Singapore generals do not go to military academys to learn about military, most of them are president scholars or SAF scholars, This point we cannot deny. IF any of us here really do go and enrol ourselves in military academies, do we stand a chance of being a General in Singapore? Well, I would say no.
actually , there's actually a SAF scholarship where SAF enrol their scholars to military academies like sandhurst and west point... so does that mean that these scholars do not stand an equal chance of being Generals, even if they are more capable than some SAFOS? -
Believing mindef is like believing the sky is blue because ditzy said so.
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of course it is true...
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They are few malay beacuse what I think they pay little attention tot he IQ test...
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What I meant was that there is no such institution in Singapore that allows us to enrol in such a military institution from a young age. If you look at US or UK, they do have schools that groom military leaders from ages as young as 10 years old. In Singapore, we need to have a academic cert to even join SAF, that means even less chance of being sent to overseas military academies.Originally posted by charleslee:[quote]Originally posted by acwire_2125:
[b]Another point to note, Singapore generals do not go to military academys to learn about military, most of them are president scholars or SAF scholars, This point we cannot deny. IF any of us here really do go and enrol ourselves in military academies, do we stand a chance of being a General in Singapore? Well, I would say no.
actually , there's actually a SAF scholarship where SAF enrol their scholars to military academies like sandhurst and west point... so does that mean that these scholars do not stand an equal chance of being Generals, even if they are more capable than some SAFOS?
I strongly feel that Singapore should set up a Military school that let people go in after their PSLE and start their military education. From there they will then go into SAF as professional soliders or even become high ranking officers. -
SAF Boys School ........ in the past ........ they don't produce Generals.
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i think the closest they got to was SAFECOriginally posted by acwire_2125:What I meant was that there is no such institution in Singapore that allows us to enrol in such a military institution from a young age. If you look at US or UK, they do have schools that groom military leaders from ages as young as 10 years old. In Singapore, we need to have a academic cert to even join SAF, that means even less chance of being sent to overseas military academies.
I strongly feel that Singapore should set up a Military school that let people go in after their PSLE and start their military education. From there they will then go into SAF as professional soliders or even become high ranking officers. -
Long time ago SAF boy school went around recruiting,my Principal tried his best to talk me out of it,my parents and relatives also tried to psycho me then finaly i went for the interview and they rejected me....the reason they said was because i could study so i was not qualifiedOriginally posted by KoolKool:SAF Boys School ........ in the past ........ they don't produce Generals.
Yes it was a sad fact that those who went to SAF boys school in the 70s and early 80s never really got educated. -
I am not a Malay or a Singaporean anymore for that matter but I never thought that there would still be ignorant people like you around in modern Singapore.Originally posted by menoob:since when there r malay commandos?
any current commandos wanna comment? -
Yes and there are many chinese,Dayaks,Indians and others in their Special forces.You dont have to be a muslim to go up to a full Colonel.I know one Chinese Colonel and a former Renjer/Ranger.So Singaporeans need to respect other forces as well and not be too coky.I imagine Singapore as something like Iron Mike Tyson but if you remember he got Knocked out by the underrated James Buster Douglas.On paper Singapore Army kick ass for sure but in talking about actual combat we better not talk too much as the SAF have not earn the right to brag yet.Originally posted by KoolKool:I know a few Chinese in Malaysia Armed Forces, rank of Captain and Major, using Chinese names. They are mainly in the training wings. But I think to be an instructor, you need to be operational first. So, you got your facts wrong. -
Well, I really hope that Singapore could start another Military school so that they can truely recruit those who are keen on signing on.
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talking to an idiot like u who dont know how to read english to a waste of my time.Originally posted by PaeFans:Where did you get this info from? (Pls see those in Bold)
Have you ever been in an Air Base?
What are the basis for your assumption?
PLEASE GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT BEFORE POSTING SUCH COMMENTS!!!
IT IS INGORANT PPL LIKE YOU WHO POST BLINDLY THAT CAUSE RACIAL TENSION!!!
I have worked in TAB for >7 years and i can vouch with my life that we have a Muslim section in the cookhouse.
good ridiculance~
FO! -
pea brain, READ my sentence properly.Originally posted by pilotsnoopy:how many chinese are there in neighbouring forces?
use ur brain.
If u dont know how to read. join that idiot to relearn together. -
But the point is most professional armies deploy their generals at military institutions (think West Point, etc) to give them a solid grounding that prepares them for a career in the military and nothing else - that's the kind of training I am talking about. Let's face it - someone cut out for West Point isn't necessarily Harvard material; likewise, someone who is cut out for Harvard isn't necessarily going to make the grade for West Point. That's simply because Harvard and West Point prepare individuals for two very different lives entirely.Originally posted by nightzip:No lah....all officers go through Officer cadet school, war games, war strategies, human management, weapons system, senior officer school, etc, etc, etc....
further why scholars cannot be officers??? huh? why? huh? huh?
must officers be from ah bengs? those no brainers who only wished to fight and those violent types?
whoever thought that high ranked officers in SAF are directly from academic universities??????? Must be some ignorant american..
What Singapore is effectively doing is picking someone qualified for Harvard and have them schooled at Harvard and then place them at West Point on virtue of the fact that they're Harvard-material - evidently, this is going to compromise the quality of the individuals West Point is intended to serve when they might never have been West Point material had they not been eligible for Harvard. Similarly, there could be many worthy West Point candidates turned away simply because they aren't Harvard material when there clearly is no direct and intrinsic relation to suggest Harvard and West Point require the same set of assets and skills to thrive.
The fact that Singapore picks its generals from a pool of academically-inclined applicants and subject them to their own form of military training cannot and will never compensate for the quality of training what many professional armies do with their generals... -
double post
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Originally posted by ryangian:ARE Singapore's top military commanders too young and inexperienced?
Are they fast-tracked to the upper echelons because of their scholar credentials, while more experienced non-scholars or "farmers" — as they have been unceremoniously labelled — toil in vain?
Are soldiers here soft because of the emphasis on safety during training at the expense of realism?
And do officers lack professionalism and commitment because mandatory retirement at 45 means many see their time in uniform "as a stepping stone" to a second career in politics or business.
These questions, and several others, are the subject of a critique of the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) published in United States-based journal Armed Forces & Society. The quarterly circulates some 2000 copies worldwide.
The article, which has made its rounds in Singapore and created a stir among the uniformed ranks, was written by an American soldier Sean Walsh, who was stationed at the United States Embassy in Singapore for several weeks in 2004, during his summer break from the US Military Academy.
In the article, The Roar of the Lion City, the writer also claimed that women have been held back from holding high posts in the SAF, and that there is a policy to keep Malays out of sensitive areas.
Despite his criticism of the SAF, Mr Walsh, who graduated from the US Army Ranger School, concluded his article by saying "there can be no doubt that the SAF is the most competent, well-equipped and best trained force in the whole of South-east Asia" — a claim the SAF itself has not made.
He also admitted that the SAF was "more than capable" of defending Singapore's borders, conducting peacekeeping missions and dealing with asymmetric threats in the wake of 911. It possessed a "world-class" special operations force which would not require outside assistance, he noted.
So, why the paradoxical praise and criticism of the SAF?
Mr Walsh, who is deployed in Germany, could not be contacted, but in his article he pointed to the age of SAF's top commanders — such as Brigadier-General Desmond Quek, who was 39 when he was promoted to the post of Army Chief — and concluded that "youth naturally corresponds to inexperience" and this "casts obvious doubts on their ability to lead in a conflict against battle-hardened troops".
However, responding to queries from TODAY, Col Benedict Lim, director of public affairs at the Ministry of Defence (Mindef), said: "The SAF does not seek out wars but will not flinch from putting its soldiers into harm's way to fulfil its primary mission of protecting the vital interests of our country."
He also pointed out that the SAF carries out about 70 exercises annually with other countries' armed forces, some of which have considerable combat experience, and has been praised for its professionalism. The SAF has also carried out humanitarian missions, for example during Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans.
Defence analyst Dr Alvin Chew told Today that the debate centred on Singapore's defence policy, which is based on diplomacy and deterrence. As such, the relative youthfulness of SAF officers, who are groomed in building bilateral or multi-lateral relationships with foreign militaries, was not a major drawback.
Also, given that fighting a war is not the Republic's most pressing concern, defence analyst Dr Bernard Loo said that early retirement meant that the SAF's best and brightest could be deployed for "broader or higher national purposes —whether it is in running the economy, or running the Government".
Defending Mindef's policy to aggressively recruit and offer scholarships to the "brightest and most capable young men and women", Col Lim said that the SAF, like the rest of the public sector, operates on the principle of meritocracy, and those "who do not perform adequately are released".
But are Singapore soldiers ready to be stand in harm's way?
Mr Walsh wrote that a heavy emphasis on safety and the fact that "any major injury or death causes a very public uproar among parents" has resulted in a force less than ready for deployment.
Taking a different view, Col Lim argued that "an emphasis on safety and rigorous, realistic training are not mutually exclusive" and that the SAF prepares its servicemen to "fight, survive and win" in battle.
As for women in uniform, Mr Walsh's claimed that one of the SAF's "greatest shortcomings" was that high rank and important commands were closed to most women. Admitting "there was no policy that pushes gender integration for its own sake", Col Lim said that women with proven merit in the SAF currently "command ships and army units, fly combat aircraft and serve in many combat vocations".
Perhaps the most controversial claim by the US soldier was that "official discrimination against the Malay population remains an open secret" and those of the race are "systematically kept out" of sensitive areas.
Mr Walsh claims that this has two major consequences: It "limits the involvement of the ethnic group most inclined to join the military" and it feeds the "perception of a second-class status among Malays, a fact which terrorist recruiters have taken advantage of before, and they may do so again" — referring to the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) members arrested in Singapore for plotting terrorist attacks.
Addressing this charge, Col Lim said: "The writer's prescription for ethnic integration in the SAF seriously underestimates the challenges of building ethnic and religious harmony in Singapore.
"Singapore has made much progress in ethnic and religious integration. Singapore does not gloss over the fact that there is yet more to be done and addresses these challenges directly and openly."
Stressing that integration in the SAF would proceed in tandem with nation-building, Col Lim added that there are a good number of Malay SAF officers, some with higher degrees, whose studies were sponsored by the SAF, and whether a Malay SAF officer makes it to a higher appointment depends solely on merit.
In fact, Malay officers have risen through the ranks and held senior appointments.
"We have Malay pilots, commandos and air defence personnel. Those who have shown the potential to take on higher appointments in the SAF are given every opportunity to do so. Malay officers in the SAF hold key appointments such as Commanding Officer," said Col Lim.
"In fact, the proportion of eligible Malays selected for specialist and officer training is similar to the proportion for eligible non-Malays."
Mr Zulkifli Baharudin, a Malay community leader and former Nominated MP, said that the JI arrests had shown that some Singaporeans "will not react primarily to our national interests and are not completely colour-blind in our instincts".
He added: "We have also seen in the past that events in India and China have had — and I'm putting it mildly — reverberations here." - TODAY
Any comments about this......
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currently in the US an infantry fresh Westpoint graduate next stop -- Iraq. 2nd LT./LT. PC.
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Very good point, precisely wad I wanted to say. The local military is not catered to Military inclined people but instead cater to academically inclined people. I think this should change.Originally posted by walesa:But the point is most professional armies deploy their generals at military institutions (think West Point, etc) to give them a solid grounding that prepares them for a career in the military and nothing else - that's the kind of training I am talking about. Let's face it - someone cut out for West Point isn't necessarily Harvard material; likewise, someone who is cut out for Harvard isn't necessarily going to make the grade for West Point. That's simply because Harvard and West Point prepare individuals for two very different lives entirely.
What Singapore is effectively doing is picking someone qualified for Harvard and have them schooled at Harvard and then place them at West Point on virtue of the fact that they're Harvard-material - evidently, this is going to compromise the quality of the individuals West Point is intended to serve when they might never have been West Point material had they not been eligible for Harvard. Similarly, there could be many worthy West Point candidates turned away simply because they aren't Harvard material when there clearly is no direct and intrinsic relation to suggest Harvard and West Point require the same set of assets and skills to thrive.
The fact that Singapore picks its generals from a pool of academically-inclined applicants and subject them to their own form of military training cannot and will never compensate for the quality of training what many professional armies do with their generals... -
Woah.
On what basis do you say that someone cut out from Havard may not be cut out for West Point? Do you know of people who were from Havard or other top Universities that did not do well in West Point? -
from wat i know, there isen any malay commandos in safOriginally posted by Short Ninja:I am not a Malay or a Singaporean anymore for that matter but I never thought that there would still be ignorant people like you around in modern Singapore.
but col. lim said there IS