sniper rifle questions.
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Current record for longest range combat sniping, 2,430m by Canadian sniper CPL.Furlong of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry.Weapon used was a McMillan TAC-50. It was -- and still is -- the longest-ever recorded kill by a sniper in combat, surpassing the mark of 2,250 m set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock during the Vietnam War.Originally posted by the.owl:2.3 km also sound very exaggerated leh....where got shoot from so far one -
Depends on where the sniper is located. And depends on the resources.Originally posted by the.owl:I thought thats standard practice for everyone
I hate to give this example but it is the only one that can come to my mind:
Sri Lanka can use arty to bombard Tamil Tiger sniper? I don't think they even got much arty. But if China how? I think they can bombard until it looks like moonscape and still have plenty of rounds to spare. -
China can even afford to use human cannonballs...Originally posted by chanjyj:Depends on where the sniper is located. And depends on the resources.
I hate to give this example but it is the only one that can come to my mind:
Sri Lanka can use arty to bombard Tamil Tiger sniper? I don't think they even got much arty. But if China how? I think they can bombard until it looks like moonscape and still have plenty of rounds to spare. -
Besides the sniper rifle, the round fired played the most important part because it need to retain a certain amount of KE over extreme long distances to penetrate the target
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Originally posted by Gedanken:I see sarcasm is a lost art.
Of course bullets are subject to the same laws of physics no matter how well the rifle is made, and of course you use a magazine. The only thing CDO about my answers was that they were dumb answers to dumb questions. Sarcasm is indeed a lost art, especially if one read it on a sunday morning haha. Cheers. -
ya but how they confirm? how they measure the exact distance from the sniper nest to the target? how do they even know if the sniper hit the guy? snipers dont walk over to check if their victim is dead.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Current record for longest range combat sniping, 2,430m by Canadian sniper CPL.Furlong of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry.Weapon used was a McMillan TAC-50. It was -- and still is -- the longest-ever recorded kill by a sniper in combat, surpassing the mark of 2,250 m set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock during the Vietnam War. -
Kill confirm as they had 3 guys in the sniper team. The shot was taken by the said corporal.range can be measured by this nifty little device which i find extremely handy called a laser range finder. and in case you didn't realise or do not know...snipers usually operate in pairs, so naturally he will have a spotter whom is equipped with a spotting scope/bino which might have more optics. power as compared to the sniping scope for more zoom.Originally posted by the.owl:ya but how they confirm? how they measure the exact distance from the sniper nest to the target? how do they even know if the sniper hit the guy? snipers dont walk over to check if their victim is dead. -
.50 technically can hit 3km max if im not mistaken
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Oh yeah...not forgetting that snipers usually use match grade ammunition.
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The only thing that match grade ammo offers is that there is more consistency between individual rounds. They aren't inherently less prone to the laws of physics than any other round - it's simply that each round behaves more like the last one fired.
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Ged, don't mind sharing if a platform like the McMillan M88, or Barret Light Fifty uses match-grade ammo. Cuz I understand they use the .5 cal. that the M2 Browning uses. But I doubt there's any form of match-grade ammo for the .5cal yeah?Originally posted by Gedanken:The only thing that match grade ammo offers is that there is more consistency between individual rounds. They aren't inherently less prone to the laws of physics than any other round - it's simply that each round behaves more like the last one fired. -
Honest answer, I'm not aware of any manufacturers of match-grade .5 ammo. However, it doesn't make too much sense to use non-match-grade ammo in a sniper rifle, and keep in mind that shooters can easily load their own .5 rounds to match-grade standard.
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i tot 2 man per team? 1 shooter n 1 spotter..Originally posted by SpecOps87:Kill confirm as they had 3 guys in the sniper team. The shot was taken by the said corporal.range can be measured by this nifty little device which i find extremely handy called a laser range finder. and in case you didn't realise or do not know...snipers usually operate in pairs, so naturally he will have a spotter whom is equipped with a spotting scope/bino which might have more optics. power as compared to the sniping scope for more zoom.
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Not I quote wrong...got source to backOriginally posted by mr_sotong:i tot 2 man per team? 1 shooter n 1 spotter..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Furlong -
There are rounds that can triple your rangeOriginally posted by storm_freaky13:.50 technically can hit 3km max if im not mistaken -
3km*3=9km... I think you can't hit anything accurately at that range. Even if you manged to aim, the bullet won't hit.Originally posted by maggot:There are rounds that can triple your range -
I did a little research on the net. It seems the .408 CheyTac cartidge, even though smaller and somewhat lighter than .5, retains more K.E. at distances exceeding 700m.
The reason why most of the snipers I know like to load round by round through the ejection window, is due to ........ ok I think that is somewhat sensitive information which I shall not divulge.
Look, the thing is, you don't have to be perfect. You just need to kill your target, preferably a head shot at 400m. Who gives a shit if your rifle is 3 or 4 rounds heavier due to rounds loaded?
Have you guys seen a PSG1 eject a spent case? Wow. You know what? Most of you will never get to see it ever. Deal with it. Anyway, a PSG1 is not cost efficient. An MSG90 will do just fine. -
I wouldn't consider it sensitive information. It's common knowledge amongst the precision rifle shooting community here that single-loading a cartridge through the ejection port of a semi-auto rifle eliminates the possibility of the cartridge being damaged when it is automatically fed from the magazine.Originally posted by crosshairs:The reason why most of the snipers I know like to load round by round through the ejection window, is due to ........ ok I think that is somewhat sensitive information which I shall not divulge.
The projectile of a cartridge fed from a magazine strikes the feed ramp as it is being pushed out of the top of the magazine and into the chamber by the advancing bolt. This has the potential of damaging or distorting the projectile and thereby adversely affecting its accuracy. The loss in accuracy might be negligible, but might mean all the difference between winning and losing a marksmanship competition when the spreads between the best and worst shots are measured in fractions of an inch.
Single-loading through the ejection port also allows a longer cartridge that otherwise would not fit into the magazine, to be chambered and fired. -
I understand from your experience and rationalisation why some snipers choose to load from the ejection port but that's not why we do that.
Nevermind.
Anyway, some points regarding this discussion thread.
1) Straight shot theory.
I suppose you mean flat trajectory. Well, due to many factors primarily to do with air resistance and a little bit to do with earth rotation, projectiles never shoot quite in a parabolic shape. In fact when I did a little calculation that day, I realised that shooting at higher latitudes will incurr quite a substantial error if rotation of the earth was not factored in, an increase in M.O.A. that is somewhat proportional to the increase in shooting distance if we do not factor in air resistance. All in all for a single shot to be accurate these days, either you have a mathematical chart of somesort with your spotter, or you have a PDA. Cos a whole lot of calculations go into 1 confirmed shot. As for a flat trajectory, STEYR does have a weapon system that shoots a dart with fins that have a flatter than normal trajectory compared to conventional projectiles. But it's huge.
2)Single load rifle.
Can someone recall the name of the movie Dolph Lundgren was in? Silent trigger? OK, go watch that. Self expanatory.
3)Doctorine against Snipers.
1: Another sniper.
2:Smoke grenades.
3:Artillery, mortar fire.
4:Animals. I can only imagine how I would hate this.
5:Assuming a male sniper, a naked female with average figure.
I had been trying to develope a method to escape from sniper fire which does not include any extra equipment, nor the naked female, which encompasses a series of movements that directly neutralizes the tactics used by snipers to take down a moving target from a known distance. Little is left to the imagination of why I have yet been successful. (hint: lack of human volunteer (sacrifice)). -
Warning: Do not use female with below average figure. Will result in loss of life.
Disclaimer: The above statement does not in anyway belittle the status of women (either in or not in combat) but places an emphasis on the discerning taste of the heterosexual male sniper and his equally heterosexual spotter who probably spent the last 3 nights with him huddled together telling fairytale stories. -
Define average.Originally posted by crosshairs:Warning: Do not use female with below average figure. Will result in loss of life. -
That's another sensitive information. For the sake of my personal security, I shall not give my opinion.
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USing magazine fed does have one more advantage.. it lets you load different type of ammo or loadings on each mag! thus have a quick way of getting the different type of ammo like ( Armor Piercing, Boat tail hollow point ) to the sniper without fumbling with lose rounds.
Most modern bolt sniper rifle like the Accuracy INternational AWM , AW , SAko TRG series, etc have magazine fed.
AS for the Semi auto like the PSG-1!MSG90 I would say that is the only True Free float Semi auto SNiper rifle out there due to the unique Delay roller block system that doesnot need a piston or gas port like the M14 or M16 type gas operation. However, getting a semi rifle to be consistant and accurate like a bolt gun is somtimes very difficult like the Springfield Armoury M1a Super match, PSG-1 ... However, Semi auto gives you quicker follow up shot than bolt guns!
Saying the MSG90 is better than the PSG-1! well! it is not the same ! MSG90 being 14.1 lb and the PSG-1 17.6 lb! the weight differnce prbably comes from the differnt barrel they use ! ALso! I notice the PSG-1 has a different way of holding the trigger group lower than the MSG-90! MSG90 seems to be the clip and pin and the PSG uses the latch on type!
ONe more thing is in Bolt gun! we can neck size our cartridge thus have a fire form brass of the match ammo! thus! bolt gun can get much more consistant ammunition over a semi auto ! reason with semi auto is that we have to always full length resize the brass and thus the cartridge will not fit as good as a well fire form brass for the Bolt action sniper rifle.
DaveC -
What's with all that "I'd tell you but then I'd have to kill you" jive?Originally posted by crosshairs:Have you guys seen a PSG1 eject a spent case? Wow. You know what? Most of you will never get to see it ever. Deal with it.
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The issue of using different types of ammunition are a subject of the nature of the mission. Recon missions aside, the objective target is usually known, mode of transport and shelter very often observed. Fumbling with ammunition is usually not a problem.Originally posted by davechng:USing magazine fed does have one more advantage.. it lets you load different type of ammo or loadings on each mag! thus have a quick way of getting the different type of ammo like ( Armor Piercing, Boat tail hollow point ) to the sniper without fumbling with lose rounds.
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.....Saying the MSG90 is better than the PSG-1! well! it is not the same ! MSG90 being 14.1 lb and the PSG-1 17.6 lb! the weight differnce prbably comes from the differnt barrel they use ! ALso! I notice the PSG-1 has a different way of holding the trigger group lower than the MSG-90! MSG90 seems to be the clip and pin and the PSG uses the latch on type!
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DaveC
I assume this is a reply to my statement that MSG90 is more cost efficient. Whether or not that is the case, I shall explain. The PSG1 is the predecessor to the MSG90, this information is widely available on the net. The PSG1 was designated sniper rifle for law enforcement agencies as with all H&K firearms. The PSG1 is occassionally adopted by paramilitary groups with the extra cash to spare, but realising that spending over USD10K on a single piece of equipment with accuracy that far exceeds their expectation is not really an efficient way of spending public funds, the MSG90 was developed. It was much cheaper to deploy, and fulfills the needs of a police sniper rifle. Therefore more cost efficient. I didn't say cost effective.