5 working days or 6?
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during my time i do guard duties (weekdays and weekends), next day also no off.Originally posted by KoolKool:I don't know why SCDF NS boys so good life. One 24-hr shift and then 2 days off. During the 24 hours shift, they get to sleep as well.
Seems like there is a huge disparity over the NS treatment. SCDF NS - 1 week - work 2 days, off 5 days. SAF NS - work 5 days, off 2 days.
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well there is a couple of senario that the 7/24 still stand such as pearl habour, 911. Assumption of unknown factor and Defence Projection is a reasonable precaution that any country would take.Originally posted by KoolKool:Understood, but we are not in a war zone.
And we are not likely to go to war in a long time to come. We live peacefully, and practice peacetime procedures, such as going home, shopping and movies. We have an Army so we can enjoy peace. So what's the point of trying to living life in a warzone when we should be enjoying the peace we have created.
As much as we are not living in a War zone it does not means that we should let our guard down. -
I totally agree with you that we must not let our guard down, but there are such things call DEFCON, REDCON, etc., which decides the state of alertness we should be in.Originally posted by Arapahoe:well there is a couple of senario that the 7/24 still stand such as pearl habour, 911. Assumption of unknown factor and Defence Projection is a reasonable precaution that any country would take.
As much as we are not living in a War zone it does not means that we should let our guard down.
I think the time management should be more equal for both NS whether in SAF, Police or SCDF. I have no quarrels with SCDF if that is the time allocated for rest, so as to be able to react to emergencies. But I do think the principle of rest should be applied more equally.
If it cannot be equal, then perhaps, we are overstaffing SCDF and understaffing SAF ? -
The nature of the duties is different.Originally posted by KoolKool:I think the time management should be more equal for both NS whether in SAF, Police or SCDF. I have no quarrels with SCDF if that is the time allocated for rest, so as to be able to react to emergencies. But I do think the principle of rest should be applied more equally.
If it cannot be equal, then perhaps, we are overstaffing SCDF and understaffing SAF ?
If you want to compare, perhaps a good comparison is 6SIR who is doing rotation duties like them. -
same, and the bullsh|te excuse they give you is that its "regimental"Originally posted by Gordonator:during my time i do guard duties (weekdays and weekends), next day also no off. 
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wkdays at least still ok but sunday duties people work whole day monday still must work. sian.Originally posted by vito_corleone:same, and the bullsh|te excuse they give you is that its "regimental"
saturday duty is the best. sunday morning straight away go home. -
when sat duty you hope everyone books out late.Originally posted by Gordonator:saturday duty is the best. sunday morning straight away go home.
but if long weekend you ....
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I hear what you are saying, I think it is easy to follow that thoughts.Originally posted by KoolKool:I totally agree with you that we must not let our guard down, but there are such things call DEFCON, REDCON, etc., which decides the state of alertness we should be in.
I think the time management should be more equal for both NS whether in SAF, Police or SCDF. I have no quarrels with SCDF if that is the time allocated for rest, so as to be able to react to emergencies. But I do think the principle of rest should be applied more equally.
If it cannot be equal, then perhaps, we are overstaffing SCDF and understaffing SAF ?
But when you start to look at micro level. I believe it is a entire new ball game.
For example if you put on a drawing board for 7/24 deterrence. than what kind of deterrence we are lookin at or threats? Function of units to be capable of deterrence to response within certain time frame. how many man etc....recalling....etc.. unknown human factors delay factors.
after your planing, you can almost throw in a dice to caculate probabilities. i think limited resources and structure of SAF does play a part. After all Defcon and Recon does required resource to support and communicate down chain. As for SAF it has huge responsibilities especially at the top.I am sure the information they received does not filter down.
So apply some imagination to assume u r seating at the top and look down. What situation to be in this Security threat level ? is there higher or lower level?
Also transforming an institution like SAF also takes time its still learning. It probably could be better as there are always room for improvement. -
Try telling NS enlistees that because of the nature of duties are different, therefore, one needs to work 2 or 3 days per week, and the other 24/7. These guys are serving NS, not looking for promotion prospects.Originally posted by Icemoon:The nature of the duties is different.
If you want to compare, perhaps a good comparison is 6SIR who is doing rotation duties like them.
My comparison is based primarily on NS liabilities. Nature of duty is secondary.
Anyone from 6 SIR can comment on their work / off cycles ?
I think SCDF has made a mistake about the off cycles. If you work 8 hours a day, and have the other 16 hours to rest, it does equate to working 24 hours and off 48 hours. But this cannot be the same if out of the 24 hours, you sleep through 8 hours. -
Sorry, I think I went off topic. I'll go to SCDF and tell them to review their work routine, so our guys here no need to try to 'siam' SAF, and hope to land with SCDF.
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i tink it still must be 5 and half
it has all along been 5 and half and should stay that way -
You are not making sense. You should ask, why do some guys serve in tough units and others have it easy? Is this fair? Don't say it is because of pes status .. those pple pes C and below might be healthier than you. They can do more chin ups than you, and they can play soccer every weekend.Originally posted by KoolKool:Try telling NS enlistees that because of the nature of duties are different, therefore, one needs to work 2 or 3 days per week, and the other 24/7. These guys are serving NS, not looking for promotion prospects.
My comparison is based primarily on NS liabilities. Nature of duty is secondary.
Anyone from 6 SIR can comment on their work / off cycles ?
I think SCDF has made a mistake about the off cycles. If you work 8 hours a day, and have the other 16 hours to rest, it does equate to working 24 hours and off 48 hours. But this cannot be the same if out of the 24 hours, you sleep through 8 hours.
The NS liability is simply this - serve 2 years and fark off.
Precisely because you are *serving NS* .. so you don't get to pick and choose. It is not NS serving you. -
Maybe it makes no sense to you. If you are an employer, and you run a factory that goes round the clock. How would you efficiently schedule your workers ?
Work 24 hours a day (including 8 hours of sleep) followed by 2 days off ? So, if you have 3 workers rotating, you achieve 48 man-hours in 3 days.
I would rather have a 3 x 8-hr shift. Workers can go home and sleep all they want, and I am not going to pay them for sleeping in. This way, I can achieve 72 man-hours in 3 days.
Maybe, you still don't see the difference, because time is not of a concern to you. -
sat is the worst! u book out on fri evening for a few hours sat morning book in for duty. then sunday morning book out for a few hours then book in again.Originally posted by Gordonator:wkdays at least still ok but sunday duties people work whole day monday still must work. sian.
saturday duty is the best. sunday morning straight away go home. -
Actually do you have enough information to make an informed judgement?Originally posted by KoolKool:Maybe it makes no sense to you. If you are an employer, and you run a factory that goes round the clock. How would you efficiently schedule your workers ?
Work 24 hours a day (including 8 hours of sleep) followed by 2 days off ? So, if you have 3 workers rotating, you achieve 48 man-hours in 3 days.
I would rather have a 3 x 8-hr shift. Workers can go home and sleep all they want, and I am not going to pay them for sleeping in. This way, I can achieve 72 man-hours in 3 days.
Maybe, you still don't see the difference, because time is not of a concern to you.
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I should think so. I play soccer with the boys from SCDF, but SAF boys appears only once in a while. We chat after the games.Originally posted by Icemoon:Actually do you have enough information to make an informed judgement? -
Because it is not possible to do that.Originally posted by KoolKool:Maybe it makes no sense to you. If you are an employer, and you run a factory that goes round the clock. How would you efficiently schedule your workers ?
Work 24 hours a day (including 8 hours of sleep) followed by 2 days off ? So, if you have 3 workers rotating, you achieve 48 man-hours in 3 days.
I would rather have a 3 x 8-hr shift. Workers can go home and sleep all they want, and I am not going to pay them for sleeping in. This way, I can achieve 72 man-hours in 3 days.
Maybe, you still don't see the difference, because time is not of a concern to you.
For example i have 6 teams.
1 team on standby
2 teams on reserve
2 teams on training
1 team on off.
How to rotate like that?
Anyway believe me when i say some units like my is getting something like that and it's not fun but u cant do it anyway else.
Otherwise you'd be using almost 3 teams to cover 24hrs instead of 1 team.
and considering u gotta give them rest time and stuff.If you get an activation during the change over from team 2 to team 3 then you will send out team 3 fair enough.But then team 2 will need rest and team 1 will be resting still.
Leaving you with 3 teams and 2 half dead teams..so if u can 3 activation how to respond?then the next day how?who does the duty incase of activation?
You would seriously need more manpower to put 3 shifts a day.Considering u have to rotate the shifts if not the men will kpkb
And really the SCDF and even Police guys are actually doing more then the SAF on a daily basis
PS:im trying to put my point across without ermm......letting out classified info so pls spare me if it doesnt look as impressive.But trust me it's because of this 24hrs on 1 or 2 days off that we're kept safe
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u are from SCDF ah?Originally posted by |-|05|:PS:im trying to put my point across without ermm......letting out classified info so pls spare me if it doesnt look as impressive.But trust me it's because of this 24hrs on 1 or 2 days off that we're kept safe
they have classified info one meh? -
5-day work week doesnt apply to NSF la....
NSF falls under the Enlistment Act. You are serving your NS liability, not working. You are getting monthly allowance, not monthly salary.
5-day work week apply to regulars. They are employed and therefore falls under the Employment Act, they are getting salary. If they work on sat, then got half day off...
Haha guys, so too bad la...
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which means the regulars taking care of NSFs suay lor.Originally posted by kiddyduck:5-day work week doesnt apply to NSF la....
NSF falls under the Enlistment Act. You are serving your NS liability, not working. You are getting monthly allowance, not monthly salary.
5-day work week apply to regulars. They are employed and therefore falls under the Employment Act, they are getting salary. If they work on sat, then got half day off...
Haha guys, so too bad la...
wait a minute .. maybe encik and OC go home on friday and let the NSF PCs do the area inspection on sat.