Legend of SAF - BG Lee
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The other "lee" was in armour, very nice guy ... so i heard.Originally posted by mhcampboy:the other "lee" was commander of a bde batallion before..
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last time got tv footage (forgot when was it, prob when he became PM, the mediacorp news briefly intro his life story) of the cable car incident, tt time he still COL, (personally dunno much abt tt part of history), but he was said command the operation (i'm not sure), which is a major highlight of his military career.
if i'm not wrong, he was CO 23SA, not 20SA. -
My thai teacher used to be his platoon mate during NS days. Heard he very CMI. And always disappears during training. Came back from overseas studies and was promoted to a very high rank.
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When he left the SAF at the age of 32 in 1984, he was already a 1-star general ... till date, I dun see anyone attaining this rank at that age.Originally posted by Theballstopshere:My thai teacher used to be his platoon mate during NS days. Heard he very CMI. And always disappears during training. Came back from overseas studies and was promoted to a very high rank. -
Bo pian what...Originally posted by flash9933:When he left the SAF at the age of 32 in 1984, he was already a 1-star general ... till date, I dun see anyone attaining this rank at that age.
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IMHO, the guys on the ground should get the credit.Originally posted by khk:last time got tv footage (forgot when was it, prob when he became PM, the mediacorp news briefly intro his life story) of the cable car incident, tt time he still COL, (personally dunno much abt tt part of history), but he was said command the operation (i'm not sure), which is a major highlight of his military career.
if i'm not wrong, he was CO 23SA, not 20SA.
IIRC, the operation was considerably delayed by international standards.
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his father wants him to rose through the ranks quickly so that he can enter into politics faster.Originally posted by flash9933:When he left the SAF at the age of 32 in 1984, he was already a 1-star general ... till date, I dun see anyone attaining this rank at that age. -
so good rite...Originally posted by Gordonator:his father wants him to rose through the ranks quickly so that he can enter into politics faster. 
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I'm sure his fantastic ability in Math helped him to be a really good artillery officer.
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I'm sure, for those people who have done their NSF liability already, that you know Officers, especially one with rank of COL, just talk and look handsome to the media when interviewed.
Whether their big plans suceed or fails depends largely on the people far below, who will not be known for the roles they played during the rescue.
Does anyone actually believe that COL Lee at that time went to help out? In addition, it was a really minor incident, compared to what REAL soldiers/commanders in the US Military in Afghanistan/Iraq face daily.
I firmly believe that one's mettle will be tested only when live rounds are whizzing by his ears, when explosions are aplenty and limbs of real people flying about... when you are taking real casualties and fatalities and your vehicles are reduced to chunks of burning, twisted metal.
I would like to add that any Tom, Di-k or Harry can command an Army any time during admin/peace time.
u all should know, ask all the below one do swee swee else they sign extra like crazy, then u say some general ideas that everyone will have to sweat like hell just to achieve them. -
speaking of colonels .... I'll always remember this very young chap who's a full colonel during an exercise ....
ACS boy ... went to MIT .... scout also .... know how we knew ? ... cos he's full of himself and would drop in snippets of his personal life while holding court in the planning room ...
got pwnzed pretty quickly by the opfor during the actual exercise though .... by a career soldier no less ..... (I don't count scholars as career soldiers, their real careers start when they jump over to some GLCs, stats boards, or for a lucky few, the parliament ... ) -
how nice for these scholars to be the ones pointing on the maps when the real shooting starts.Originally posted by Fatum:speaking of colonels .... I'll always remember this very young chap who's a full colonel during an exercise ....
ACS boy ... went to MIT .... scout also .... know how we knew ? ... cos he's full of himself and would drop in snippets of his personal life while holding court in the planning room ...
got pwnzed pretty quickly by the opfor during the actual exercise though .... by a career soldier no less ..... (I don't count scholars as career soldiers, their real careers start when they jump over to some GLCs, stats boards, or for a lucky few, the parliament ... )
im sure what he learnt in MIT is relevant to his work in SAF.
pui!
Kilo November November... Papa Charlie Bravo -
Only relevant in organisational transformation.Originally posted by Ristar:how nice for these scholars to be the ones pointing on the maps when the real shooting starts.
im sure what he learnt in MIT is relevant to his work in SAF.
pui!
Kilo November November... Papa Charlie Bravo
He should leave it all in the war room. -
im not sure how watever he studied is relevant in organisational transformation.. please enlighten me on this point... lest i think he does nothing but talk n talk n talk and leave it to others to get things done.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Only relevant in organisational transformation.
He should leave it all in the war room.
he should leave it to the experts. if it were his first time, he should've asked those who are more lao jiao one how to defeat the opfor. plenty of "glory" to go around when the enemy is defeated. only shame and finger pointing awaits when defeated. -
Oldtimer here...make that retired old timer, cuz I finished my cycle in 2001.
Sorry to burst bubble, but LHL was a pretty good field commander. (Dunno about his time as staff officer, which was beyond my realm.)
The whole Arty formation still hold him in awe when I was posted there in 1986, even though he'd already left for politics for quite a while. Particularly at Khatib Camp (back then not "Home of the Gunners" yet), where his influence lingered even when I returned to do reservist there.
But in context, lah. NS only began in 1968, with new combat units being formed with each new intake. The pioneering SAF scholars began with LHL in 1971 &, in the next few years, also included the likes of George Yeo, Lim Hng Kiang, Teo Chee Hean, Lim Neo Chian (he lasted the longest &, along with Teo, also climbed the highest as 2-star Generals) & Lim Swee Say (retrospectively the "pai kia", cuz he left the SAF as only a Major, joined a stat board & started growing his hair long ~lol~). They were basically commanding on the fly & developing SOPs on the way &, under those circumstances, I'll say they've done very well. But, again, in context cuz the 1970s still has a lot of anti-NS prejudice (the mentality changed only with Total Defense), drugs & gangsterism among the conscripts, plus proficiency standards like the IPPT not being set until 1980. IMO Says a lot when the SAF could help coordinate the Cable Car rescue effort by 1983, & mobilise quickly for the Hotel New World collapse during my BMT .
You know those old NS photos? Tin helmets, Temasek Green, tucked-in uniforms? That was their heyday! ~lol~ LHL must've led a M71 Battalion (12 men per gun, quite siong with a lot of manual labor); the FH88s were introduced only during my time. I don't think I can mention his tangible legacies here, except for perhaps one (since it's now obsolete). The HP-41 calculator, which gunners used to compute data through 1980s, was said to be one of his pet projects. He'd pushed for its re-programming to fit Arty purposes, based on his experienced acquired out in the field. -
that's why I said, he should try to not use all he has learnt in MIT when he wears the uniform and during ops, because it may not be relevant.Originally posted by Ristar:im not sure how watever he studied is relevant in organisational transformation.. please enlighten me on this point... lest i think he does nothing but talk n talk n talk and leave it to others to get things done.
he should leave it to the experts. if it were his first time, he should've asked those who are more lao jiao one how to defeat the opfor. plenty of "glory" to go around when the enemy is defeated. only shame and finger pointing awaits when defeated.
let him use that to come up with some organisational manual instead. -
my point is, as long as u r comfortable with a General who points on the map where u r going there to die, im fine with it.Originally posted by blitzonic:Oldtimer here...make that retired old timer, cuz I finished my cycle in 2001.
Sorry to burst bubble, but LHL was a pretty good field commander. (Dunno about his time as staff officer, which was beyond my realm.)
The whole Arty formation still hold him in awe when I was posted there in 1986, even though he'd already left for politics for quite a while. Particularly at Khatib Camp (back then not "Home of the Gunners" yet), where his influence lingered even when I returned to do reservist there. -
Care to share how good a field commander LHL is?? It is hard for people to believe you based on hearsay...Originally posted by blitzonic:Oldtimer here...make that retired old timer, cuz I finished my cycle in 2001.
Sorry to burst bubble, but LHL was a pretty good field commander. (Dunno about his time as staff officer, which was beyond my realm.)
The whole Arty formation still hold him in awe when I was posted there in 1986, even though he'd already left for politics for quite a while. Particularly at Khatib Camp (back then not "Home of the Gunners" yet), where his influence lingered even when I returned to do reservist there.
But in context, lah. NS only began in 1968, with new combat units being formed with each new intake. The pioneering SAF scholars began with LHL in 1971 &, in the next few years, also included the likes of George Yeo, Lim Hng Kiang, Teo Chee Hean, Lim Neo Chian (he lasted the longest &, along with Teo, also climbed the highest as 2-star Generals) & Lim Swee Say (retrospectively the "pai kia", cuz he left the SAF as only a Major, joined a stat board & started growing his hair long ~lol~). They were basically commanding on the fly & developing SOPs on the way &, under those circumstances, I'll say they've done very well. But, again, in context cuz the 1970s still has a lot of anti-NS prejudice (the mentality changed only with Total Defense), drugs & gangsterism among the conscripts, plus proficiency standards like the IPPT not being set until 1980. IMO Says a lot when the SAF could help coordinate the Cable Car rescue effort by 1983, & mobilise quickly for the Hotel New World collapse during my BMT .
You know those old NS photos? Tin helmets, Temasek Green, tucked-in uniforms? That was their heyday! ~lol~ LHL must've led a M71 Battalion (12 men per gun, quite siong with a lot of manual labor); the FH88s were introduced only during my time. I don't think I can mention his tangible legacies here, except for perhaps one (since it's now obsolete). The HP-41 calculator, which gunners used to compute data through 1980s, was said to be one of his pet projects. He'd pushed for its re-programming to fit Arty purposes, based on his experienced acquired out in the field. -
Ah, a skeptic.
Can't directly help you since I wasn't a first-hand eyewitness. What I can say that there were enough dubious scholar-officers around in the 1980s to make the WOs yearn for the first-generation highfliers (deemed to be more personable). One of them -- who was quite famous actually; his nickname is a Hokkien play on 'nail' -- used to insist that LHL only learnt to connect with the commoner when he was a junior officer.
The SAF fast-track system is obviously still in place; all I'm saying here is the social differentiation was more acute in my time (when a A-Level cert or Poly diploma was quite respected). I mean, these guys got posted in as CPTs, sometimes already with acquired MBAs & SCSC courses under their belt, clearly serving time before moving up higher. The dubiety thus becomes where so-&-so will simply treat his time as a mere stepping-stone -- with the Hokien peng on the receiving end accordingly. Of the 3 Battery Commanders during my active time (each staying about 6-9 months), one was bookish, another completely snobbish, & the last one super gung-ho. Projecting back from his present mannerisms & communicative style, I'll say LHL was probably a cross between the first & the last. The scholar-officer environ wasn't that dissimilar from my time either, since I read online that he was an Arty BN CO only in 1980 -- 9 years after getting the scholarship!
The controversy, if you want to call it that, was how fast he shot up the staff-officer ranks. The latter is a different world altogether, even in those days. He was already ("suddenly") a COL when the media spotlight shone on him during the Cable Car rescue in 1982 &, more "astonishingly", made B-G a year later. -
so... if somebody is bookish and gungho... he is a good commander?
wat did he do to be classified as "gung ho" anyway?