getting charged for entering NTU during clear leave?
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well during my time in NS i was ord'ing when the semester was starting in USA. what you can do is apply for early release from service ... i think you can use up to 2 weeks leave + a combination of offs if you have any ...
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why will you wan to do that? your CO can be a bastard to take away all your off(off is prilvillege) leave if can be rescheduled to give you scatterred for 2 months. then what can you do?Originally posted by powser:i can be on standby in school what.
Anyway disruption means having to come back for one more month... and looking at all the disruptees that came back to my unit, I have to say I wanna avoid it at all cost. They are treated quite badly and there's nothing you can do abt that.
But oh well. Looks like I have no choice. If anyone else can offer some viable options, do let me know. Thanks.
I dun understand though, yes u an get charged if you dun respond to a mobilization. But I can still go back when i'm in school what. I can even skip lectures and stuff if they want me back. Is there any grounds to charging me just because I entered school? -
Clearing block leave/off DOES NOT entitle you to pursue other fulltime commitments such as jobs or education. This is simply because you are still a fulltime NSF during this period of time. If your CO let's you do it and this matter gets out, he will get it.
The only way (and it has always been this way) to go about this problem is to disrupt your NS for 1 month and then serve the 1 month during the univeristy holidays. For now, please go file for disruption asap before it's too late and stop wasting time here trying to justify your actions.
And after the application for disruption, please discuss with the relevant authorities on how you can distribute your leftover leave between now and the final 1 month. I dont think they will allow you to take the entire 1 month off. Maybe half or 3/4, something like that. This i'm not so sure. -
Firstly, 'off' is not a 'given', it is an undeclared previlege and will not hold up if one is court-martialed or charged. Official Leave is the only thing that is solid leverage.
Next, i cannot understand why your CO is making such a restriction despite the fact that he is a likely grad himself. But if he does plan to make good on his threat, you can simply apply for deferment, citing your university entrance. He cannot deny you this option should you choose it and most likely, he wants all NSF staff to adopt this policy, but uses indirect threats instead of being candid about it. -
Option 1 has always been the way to do it. The problem with the threadstarter is he doesn't want to defer at all. His CO wouldnt have rejected him if he was applying for deferment.Originally posted by BillyBong:Firstly, 'off' is not a 'given', it is an undeclared previlege and will not hold up if one is court-martialed or charged. Official Leave is the only thing that is solid leverage.
Next, i cannot understand why your CO is making such a restriction despite the fact that he is a likely grad himself. But if he does plan to make good on his threat, you can take the following measures:
1. Apply for deferment, citing your university entrance. He cannot deny you this option should you choose it and most likely, he wants all NSF stff to adopt this policy, but uses indirect threats instead of being candid about it.
2. Approach your MP if things get hot. What are they for anyway?
The CO is just following directives lor. He is not being unreasonable. This is a rule followed by many companies. No other fulltime commitments for fulltime employees. -
I read most of replies in this thread. Many of you actually sympathize with the threadstarter and think that the CO does not allow him to go for his university education. But please get your facts right.
- The army does not deny anyone from further studies. This is why there is the deferment option.
- The CO did not say he wont allow the threadstarter to go for his university education. He only rejected his request for starting school while on leave, because the proper procedure all this while is to request for deferment, be it 1 month or 3 months. Many of my frens went through this.
- If the threadstarter solves this problem the usual way by applying for deferrment, he wouldnt have to wait for one more year to enter university. He just die die dont want to apply for deferment. Cant you all see? So the "wait-for one-more-year-to-enter-uni-just-becos-of-what-my-CO-did" argument is not valid. -
what's so difficult?
Any way he can check you are attending lectures or classes?
If not, just say ok, I am not in school
Go for class
if got recall, go back to army and skip class.
Simple as that.
He has no way to know if you are sitting at home feeding mosquitoes, or at school chasing babes, or working at MacDonald's parttime. -
One word, disruption.
I owed them almost 3 months when i disrupted to go NUS. Only went back to serve after 6 years, but since i carried over my leave i was in camp less than half the time, they couldnt really ask me to do anything either, so just spent my time idling in the bedding store (im not a storeman btw).
Keep ur leave days and use it to effectively negate your balance month, its not so bad. -
My own situation is even weirder.
I ORDed on the 2nd day of my university course. So in effect, if I were to disrupt, I will have to disrupt for one day (or 2 is you are to strictly follow that I will ORDed at 1700 on the second day).
Tell me, will you disrupt for one day?
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Hmmm.... I think you should disrupt, otherwise you will waste one whole year. If he wants to go law by law, then abide it. Afterall, after you disrupt and you come back, your leaves are still there. So after Uni, at most you report to unit, lobo as admin asst for a week or two then ORD liao. Better than to wait till next year then go uni right?
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You could always skip school for one day right.Originally posted by CoolMyth:My own situation is even weirder.
I ORDed on the 2nd day of my university course. So in effect, if I were to disrupt, I will have to disrupt for one day (or 2 is you are to strictly follow that I will ORDed at 1700 on the second day).
Tell me, will you disrupt for one day?
As for the thread starter, I believe that deferment is the only option for him, as others have pointed out. -
and how would ur CO know whether u attended classes or not? just go for ur classes and if kenna recall then go back lah...there is no way they can check on you unless they go to ur uni and search for u. if they call ur house just say u are outside whats the big deal? on leave/off cannot go out?
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ok.. let me analyse ur situation for u..
Firstly, are u a 2yr soldier? if u are, den u cannot apply for disruption. tts a new directive for 2yr soldiers.
2ndly, all the crap about chain of command and protocol is bullshit. parents are king nowadays, get ur parents to look for MP. trust me on tt, when the MP fires a letter down to mindef then to the unit, ur CO will oblige. guaranteed.
but if u are not a 2yr soldier (which is highly unlikely), den u haf to apply for disruption, tts the SOP and u haf to comply wif it, goin to the MP prob wun help here. -
Call SAF hotline and tell them u wanna die cos your co dun let you stardee
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just call SAF hotline and address your problem to them. I guess it will help..
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the saf hotline is just a saf unit so that any problems can be kept within the saf.
Speaking as a ord person who play the system alot of times during his nsf days,
Tell u what, just take your leave and go for your studies. I doubt your co will know where u are when on leave, just say u are at orchard or whatever with friends or sentonsa and see what he can do. First your CO i doubt will be so free to check on a clearing leave gonna ord person.
Also i have no idea why u even considered yourself liabable for recall during your leaves and off. It is call leave and off for the reason that unless there is a bloody good reason, the unit should not contact you. The only form of leave when they can check up on you is where you are taking MC. which i don;t think you are.
So just ask your parents to say you are out when the unit call your house cause you can switch your hp line off and ask your parents call u on another hp if the unit claim something really important you must go back. If ask why hp off, say no battery lah.
If you feel this is too risky, then disrupt lor. Or else you waste another year is worst than anything. -
It's still available as far as I know. I know of 2 chaps who have disrupted despite having to serve 2 years. If anything's changed since I ORDed in February then I'm not aware of it, but it's a stupid move.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:Firstly, are u a 2yr soldier? if u are, den u cannot apply for disruption. tts a new directive for 2yr soldiers. -
First of all, thank you very much for all the replies and advices I've received. I have called the 1800 hotline on the ns.sg website, and the person on the line told me that the CO has the final say in such matters. I didn't use any threat like going to MP and stuff though.
The point here is well I do have offs AND all my leave left. Even if he decides to remove my Offs, he shudn't stop me from studying during my leave either rite?
I mean if your CO says "No you can't go clubbing while u r clearing your leave and off" it's a direct invasion of personal rights. However I know going for studies is different, but how different is it to warrant a charge? After all, I'd still go back to unit and skip classes if there's manpower issues or any recall. Heck my friend even offered to return to the unit to help out during days without classes (even when on off/leave) but was rejected as well.
Returning-from-disruption people in my unit will undergo extremely long and unmanly hours as the current batch will always be looting them. It's always like that. I've seen them come back and go.
There are people in worse scenarios than me, those going SIM. They can't go and study and they can't apply disruption either because SIM is not recognized in SAf for disruption. Of course, my CO doens't give a damn and said a flat NO to them. Heck some of them has even paid school fees and now they're in this predicament. -
Hows ur overlapping period? Few days? 1 week?
If it is just few days it is ok, u skip the 1st week in NTU, atmost 2 weeks, download the notes and read on ur own. For tutorials, although start on 2nd week, u still can skipped it because most 1st tutorial are quite easy and straight forward.
For labs and tutorials, just speak to the respective lecturers so that u can join another class timing. NTU labs are divided among the classes so u can still join other class or even the part-time labs in the evening.
If the overlapping is 3 weeks and above, please do go for disruption. Because based on my experience (in NTU) if u skipped more than 2 weeks it becomes very hard to catch up especially if u are taking 6 to 8 modules per sem.
If u desperate, u can join the part-time slots (that is, if ur course has part-time such as EEE/MAE etc in NTU) which is held in the evening. Although not all modules available at night because part-timers only take 3 modules per sem. I dun think Ur CO is so on until evening also check on you ba?
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OMG Army so long haben learn nething ar? You can do nething you want just dun get caught. Obviously your CO is trying to cover backside right. Maybe he also being mark by his boss. Full time NSF cannot have other fulltime job is the rule. He cannot openly tell you it is OK to break the rule right. OMG.
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Ur unit pulled a stunt on you all liao. He is giving u an empty thread. But beware, he can makan all ur offs (but will need a reason). But who tells that ur upcoming replacement is way too low?
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very simple. just take leave and go for your studies.
the predicament here is your CO will never openly say it's OK to go for studies during your NSF period (even though on leave). It's written in black and white liao. i believe your CO is not that heartless to hold people back, he wouldn't gain credit or promotion from such minor issues. but just to cover his own ass, he has to make a stand to follow the directive.
i'm sure everyone know this common saying in SAF "wanna do anything, just dun get caught." beneath this saying is alot more depth to it.
give you an example.
when i was in taiwan for excercise, the ninja vans are all over whenever you're outfield. SAF rule is we are not allowed to buy from them. But we also cannot stop them from selling, coz it's their land, their country, their livlihood, who are we foreigners to prevent them from making a living in their own country right?
ok so they sell, and we reservist and active NSFs buy discreetly from them. our CSMs, RSMs also never stop us, just close one eye. they even tell us not to buy or eat the food so openly, just be more discreet. but the official ruling still apply - not allowed.
so why you might ask?? it's just one of those many official "cover backside" rulings any government agencies will have. I mean what happens if SAF personals were to kenna food poisoning? kenna bird flu? who is going to answer?? that is when the cover-backside rule comes in effect. you kenna food poisoning, your own pasar. dun expect SAF to compensate you for food poisoning when ur parents come complain, write letters to papers yadda yadda... COZ the directive already given not to buy from ninja van liao.
OK, back to your studies issue. take a look from the above example. it's a general workstyle SAF (or any government stats board) have for years. just take leave, dun ask questions, dun kaypoh, dun ask for rights, dun ask for MP help, dun write to press... just quietly go for your studies.
when you start working in the corporate world, this similar cover-backside standing rule issue will always be around. wanna do anything, just dun get caught. -
Originally posted by madcampus:
Well said, which was the point i raised in my post also. Just go for your studies and don't worry about it. Seriously, on your leave days, nobody will bother you unless something important. Trust me. Only MC then they will check you.
very simple. just take leave and go for your studies.
the predicament here is your CO will never openly say it's OK to go for studies during your NSF period (even though on leave). It's written in black and white liao. i believe your CO is not that heartless to hold people back, he wouldn't gain credit or promotion from such minor issues. but just to cover his own ass, he has to make a stand to follow the directive.
i'm sure everyone know this common saying in SAF [b]"wanna do anything, just dun get caught." beneath this saying is alot more depth to it.
give you an example.
when i was in taiwan for excercise, the ninja vans are all over whenever you're outfield. SAF rule is we are not allowed to buy from them. But we also cannot stop them from selling, coz it's their land, their country, their livlihood, who are we foreigners to prevent them from making a living in their own country right?
ok so they sell, and we reservist and active NSFs buy discreetly from them. our CSMs, RSMs also never stop us, just close one eye. they even tell us not to buy or eat the food so openly, just be more discreet. but the official ruling still apply - not allowed.
so why you might ask?? it's just one of those many official "cover backside" rulings any government agencies will have. I mean what happens if SAF personals were to kenna food poisoning? kenna bird flu? who is going to answer?? that is when the cover-backside rule comes in effect. you kenna food poisoning, your own pasar. dun expect SAF to compensate you for food poisoning when ur parents come complain, write letters to papers yadda yadda... COZ the directive already given not to buy from ninja van liao.
OK, back to your studies issue. take a look from the above example. it's a general workstyle SAF (or any government stats board) have for years. just take leave, dun ask questions, dun kaypoh, dun ask for rights, dun ask for MP help, dun write to press... just quietly go for your studies.
when you start working in the corporate world, this similar cover-backside standing rule issue will always be around. wanna do anything, just dun get caught. [/b] -
write forum, write to newpaper, write to young pap forum, write to storm, and the most ultimate.......WRTIE TO WANBAO......
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aiya i think you dont understand SAF. going clubbing is different from studies. Just like why you cannot work doing NSF?Originally posted by powser:First of all, thank you very much for all the replies and advices I've received. I have called the 1800 hotline on the ns.sg website, and the person on the line told me that the CO has the final say in such matters. I didn't use any threat like going to MP and stuff though.
The point here is well I do have offs AND all my leave left. Even if he decides to remove my Offs, he shudn't stop me from studying during my leave either rite?
I mean if your CO says "No you can't go clubbing while u r clearing your leave and off" it's a direct invasion of personal rights. However I know going for studies is different, but how different is it to warrant a charge? After all, I'd still go back to unit and skip classes if there's manpower issues or any recall. Heck my friend even offered to return to the unit to help out during days without classes (even when on off/leave) but was rejected as well.
Returning-from-disruption people in my unit will undergo extremely long and unmanly hours as the current batch will always be looting them. It's always like that. I've seen them come back and go.
There are people in worse scenarios than me, those going SIM. They can't go and study and they can't apply disruption either because SIM is not recognized in SAf for disruption. Of course, my CO doens't give a damn and said a flat NO to them. Heck some of them has even paid school fees and now they're in this predicament.
This is the reason why.