getting charged for entering NTU during clear leave?
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The overlapping period is exactly 1 mnth.
What I want to know now is if there's anyway I can pull it off without disrupting and getting charged.
I'm sure if I had a recall or have to go back camp but instead I stay in school and study. Yes the CO can charge me.
But if I am on leave, then I decide to go to school and if my CO finds out I'm in school can he charge me (even if there's no recall/mobilization/blah)?
Basically he will be charging me for.. err not listening to him? For going to school when he specifically said no?
And does he actually have the right to check on me? Like someone mentioned, can only check if it's on medical leave.
It's really not just about disrupting or not. It's the fact that I "haven't ORD". It's a horrible feeling. And it's not as if I would be in camp during that time. I would just be at home shaking legs and feeling WASTED wasting my time away for 1 month just because my CO ordered me to.
I've been rather hardworking and diligent in army even though I hate it pretty bad. And now I see it isn't worth the effort at all. -
young man...u should have seen the light(darkness of SAF) early...i have been enlightened on during BMT and begin to scorn the army...u work hard in SAF is akin to ask attracting more 'arrows' seriously i have to say u spend too much studying to see the world and makes u a dull jack instead of a smart aleck...yes the golden rule still and will stick ard : can do anything dun get caught....like others say cut off/divert all ya unit's communication way to ya hse(parents)...shut off from the unit while studying and while during school time try not to wonder out of school too far in case any 'donkeys' from ya unit see u...anyway cover ya tracks well and wun get caught...Originally posted by powser:The overlapping period is exactly 1 mnth.
What I want to know now is if there's anyway I can pull it off without disrupting and getting charged.
I'm sure if I had a recall or have to go back camp but instead I stay in school and study. Yes the CO can charge me.
But if I am on leave, then I decide to go to school and if my CO finds out I'm in school can he charge me (even if there's no recall/mobilization/blah)?
Basically he will be charging me for.. err not listening to him? For going to school when he specifically said no?
And does he actually have the right to check on me? Like someone mentioned, can only check if it's on medical leave.
It's really not just about disrupting or not. It's the fact that I "haven't ORD". It's a horrible feeling. And it's not as if I would be in camp during that time. I would just be at home shaking legs and feeling WASTED wasting my time away for 1 month just because my CO ordered me to.
I've been rather hardworking and diligent in army even though I hate it pretty bad. And now I see it isn't worth the effort at all.
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finish NS then go study
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Hey bro, after reading you replies, I seriously doubt whether you have read the replies given by the other forumers or not. Or maybe you really have problems understanding what others are trying to put across to you. If that's the case, please get someone more intelligent to explain all the replies in this thread for you.Originally posted by powser:The overlapping period is exactly 1 mnth.
What I want to know now is if there's anyway I can pull it off without disrupting and getting charged.
I'm sure if I had a recall or have to go back camp but instead I stay in school and study. Yes the CO can charge me.
But if I am on leave, then I decide to go to school and if my CO finds out I'm in school can he charge me (even if there's no recall/mobilization/blah)?
Basically he will be charging me for.. err not listening to him? For going to school when he specifically said no?
And does he actually have the right to check on me? Like someone mentioned, can only check if it's on medical leave.
It's really not just about disrupting or not. It's the fact that I "haven't ORD". It's a horrible feeling. And it's not as if I would be in camp during that time. I would just be at home shaking legs and feeling WASTED wasting my time away for 1 month just because my CO ordered me to.
I've been rather hardworking and diligent in army even though I hate it pretty bad. And now I see it isn't worth the effort at all.
It has always been in the directives that you are not allowed to have other fulltime commitments as long as your are still a fulltime NSF! GET it?! Get it?!!!!!!!! Doesnt matter whether you are on leave, off, MC or wat the fcuk excuse, you are still a fulltime NSF!!!!!!! Your CO cannot verbally allow you to officially go for your studies while you are on leave! Get it?!!!!!!!
So you either apply for deferment or just go to school without getting caught! Just clear your leave and go to school! Why did you ever raise the matter to the CO in the first place?! Oh gosh! -
TS, it's your own call.
If it were me, I'd just go for the studies. -
I had no problem during my time in NS, school started in the beginning of July n I ORD in August.
No one said anything.. is your CO a retard? or does he have something against uni?
Some regulars do part time degrees and they take leave to study for exams or go back to school to ask prof questions. Is your CO going to charge these people?
Btw, just go straight to your MP. The chain of command is bs. They will just cower in fear of the govt. At least I didn't really care about the chain of command then. As long as you got a huge enough backing. (my uncle was Col of MSD so it kinda helps alot..) haha -
go DB and uni place also goneOriginally posted by LazerLordz:TS, it's your own call.
If it were me, I'd just go for the studies. -
Originally posted by Ah Gong:
Not true.
go DB and uni place also gone -
The keyword over here is part time. We are not talking about a fulltime commitment. And even for part time studies, which are usually allowed if it doesnt affect the your job in the army, you need to get approval. Fulltime studies is a totally different story.Originally posted by Misogynist:I had no problem during my time in NS, school started in the beginning of July n I ORD in August.
No one said anything.. is your CO a retard? or does he have something against uni?
Some regulars do part time degrees and they take leave to study for exams or go back to school to ask prof questions. Is your CO going to charge these people?
Btw, just go straight to your MP. The chain of command is bs. They will just cower in fear of the govt. At least I didn't really care about the chain of command then. As long as you got a huge enough backing. (my uncle was Col of MSD so it kinda helps alot..) haha
And one more thing. I really hate boastful people like you. -
freakass:
The CO just pointed it out during a breifing where he instructed everyone that no one can go study or he will charge them.
I totally understand that he cannot "verbally allow" anyone to do it, but there was no need for him to verbally disallow everyone to, and THREATEN to charge anyone who does so.
My friend who is going SIM voiced out his proposals as mentioned previously, and he was rejected flat down.
I assure you I've read all the replies thouroughly and such, and I can see you're one of the few who is frankly defending my CO and making me the bad guy. Of course, I dun mind since you always need someone like you to oppose me and maintain the balance.
Thank you for your opinions. I have noted all your points.
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As for "not letting anyone find out", the problem is that who's going uni and who's not is practically a known fact among most of the men and some specs. It's normal to ask around who's going to further their studies after NS. CO dropped the bomb just the last day or 2, it was not a stated fact 1 year ago when I joined the unit.
The risks is there and I'm not sure I wanna take it.
A warm thanks to everyone and their suggestions. -
Well then, if that is the case, you just have to look for higher authority to discuss the issue and how to go about handling it. Remember that the best solution is a win-win solution. Try to give in a little at the same time. Dont expect them to totally give in to your demands.Originally posted by powser:freakass:
The CO just pointed it out during a breifing where he instructed everyone that no one can go study or he will charge them.
I totally understand that he cannot "verbally allow" anyone to do it, but there was no need for him to verbally disallow everyone to, and THREATEN to charge anyone who does so.
My friend who is going SIM voiced out his proposals as mentioned previously, and he was rejected flat down.
I assure you I've read all the replies thouroughly and such, and I can see you're one of the few who is frankly defending my CO and making me the bad guy. Of course, I dun mind since you always need someone like you to oppose me and maintain the balance.
Thank you for your opinions. I have noted all your points.
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As for "not letting anyone find out", the problem is that who's going uni and who's not is practically a known fact among most of the men and some specs. It's normal to ask around who's going to further their studies after NS. CO dropped the bomb just the last day or 2, it was not a stated fact 1 year ago when I joined the unit.
The risks is there and I'm not sure I wanna take it.
A warm thanks to everyone and their suggestions.
Try to contact mindef and see what they have to say. If you are attended by those clerks who will give u answers from the book, dont waste your time. Just ask to speak to someone with higher authority. Last resort is to seek your MP's help, but really try to keep this as the last resort. And NEVER do those stupid things like write to newspaper or any other forms of media because you will not benefit from it in any way. -
Miso speaks something that is very true.Originally posted by freakass:The keyword over here is part time. We are not talking about a fulltime commitment. And even for part time studies, which are usually allowed if it doesnt affect the your job in the army, you need to get approval. Fulltime studies is a totally different story.
And one more thing. I really hate boastful people like you.
You may think it to be boastful, he is right when he talks of having "backing".
This is true in the real world as well .
However, the issue here is common sense. The CO has no sense of proportion and is choosing to side completely with the GOM.
This is a breakdown of leadership in my eyes. Effective command emphasis arrives from rational decision making that weighs the larger good of the soldiers under him over the rules and regulations which may not be perfect, as they were made by human beings, in a different era.
Paradigm shifts are something painful. Certain commanders have the ability to be flexible in policy, some are painfully rigid. -
THREATEN !!!Originally posted by powser:freakass:
The CO just pointed it out during a breifing where he instructed everyone that no one can go study or he will charge them.
I totally understand that he cannot "verbally allow" anyone to do it, but there was no need for him to verbally disallow everyone to, and THREATEN to charge anyone who does so.
My friend who is going SIM voiced out his proposals as mentioned previously, and he was rejected flat down.
I assure you I've read all the replies thouroughly and such, and I can see you're one of the few who is frankly defending my CO and making me the bad guy. Of course, I dun mind since you always need someone like you to oppose me and maintain the balance.
Thank you for your opinions. I have noted all your points.
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As for "not letting anyone find out", the problem is that who's going uni and who's not is practically a known fact among most of the men and some specs. It's normal to ask around who's going to further their studies after NS. CO dropped the bomb just the last day or 2, it was not a stated fact 1 year ago when I joined the unit.
The risks is there and I'm not sure I wanna take it.
A warm thanks to everyone and their suggestions.
you try lor ..
you are still under SAF personal whether you on oversea/leave/MC/Marriage/Funeral etc. So is LAW that you are not allow to do any other business during your NSF life. Your Co will be in deep shit if one of his men got killed in a classroom during on leaves.
sorry for such rough reply, you ask for it
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interesting that some pple are claiming that the co is doing the right thing and that its all so reasonable to not let the personnel study during the clear leave portion.
anyway go call mindef and ask if theres a way around it. go ask your mp for advice, note that its officially for advice and not to complain or ask him to write letter; whatever the mp does after that is his own doing.
writing to newspaper may be possible but try not to put in what your co said. not that sure, maybe the regulars can confirm but it might be problematic on secrets or some other stupid law to cover the saf backside.
and yes, i remember reading on the newspaper that deferment will not be allowed for pple doing the 2 years ns, not sure if thats the complete story though, do check it up with your s1 or mindef -
We know that aspect. You do not have to raise it further.Originally posted by Quiet Guy:THREATEN !!! you try lor ..
you are still under SAF personal whether you on oversea/leave/MC/Marriage/Funeral etc. So is LAW that you are not allow to do any other business during your NSF life. Your Co will be in deep shit if one of his men got killed in a classroom during on leaves.
sorry for such rough reply, you ask for it
We are more concerned on the "soft aspects of this case". -
forget to add, the issue is that he is enrolled for the course during the duration of his ns slavery.
so even if he doesn't attend the classes, officially he is still enrolled for the duration which is a problem.
on the other hand if he isn't enrolled, he can go hang out at ntu the whole 1 month attende very lecture there is and there is no real thing the idiot can do that won't eventually backfire painfully on him -
go ahead to study
i believe u have most of our support
disrupt for 1 month really no point
at most tio charge is fine nia -
I know of a NSF officer, who did his temp job, while he was clearing off/leave.
===>Wah, u c even officers dare to play wif e rules.
Anyway, moral of the story: do what u want, but dun get caught.
But if u ask me, better be on the safe side, who noes? Maybe ur CO likes to stir up shit. -
From my experience,commanders always like to say they charge their men but i seriously believe its just an empty threat. Its common in saf.Charging someone is not use mouth to charge.They have to do lots of admin work,write report lah,edit here and there lah,obtain all the relevant signatures lah,run here run there lah(got this info from a friend who was a clerk).U think ur CO so free meh?Seriously i nv heard of pple being charged cos of pursue uni studies.More like those drug addicts or awol cases.Originally posted by powser:freakass:
The CO just pointed it out during a breifing where he instructed everyone that no one can go study or he will charge them.
I totally understand that he cannot "verbally allow" anyone to do it, but there was no need for him to verbally disallow everyone to, and THREATEN to charge anyone who does so.
Your CO was really just covering his backside by telling you the directive.No other motive.You want to do what during your leave is really your problem.Just don get caught.or if you get caught,don push the blame/prob to saf eg.saying ur CO give permission.Thats probably wat ur CO is afraid.
Just take leave and go for ur studies.If you r not confident of not getting caught,then just defer lah.I think calling saf hotline and all those stuff is bs.The issue will bounce here and there then finally bounce back to ur CO.Whats the point? Anyway go back 1 mth during sem break,time passes very fast oso mah.Some more u got leave,who noes go back 2wks onli.Ur unit so jialat until cant stay even for 2wks meh?
Btw,IMHO,if you wan to complain to MP/write in ST forums/or do anything to publicise this encounter u have to the whole world,be sure to do it only AFTER you ORD.That way,u can really blast ur CO/saf mindless directive blah blah
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Yes hits the nail with this 1...Reflect to mp and seek advice...Some one said abt complaining to mp and making noise...Please...Dont act like babies crying..Originally posted by hisoka:interesting that some pple are claiming that the co is doing the right thing and that its all so reasonable to not let the personnel study during the clear leave portion.
anyway go call mindef and ask if theres a way around it. go ask your mp for advice, note that its officially for advice and not to complain or ask him to write letter; whatever the mp does after that is his own doing.
writing to newspaper may be possible but try not to put in what your co said. not that sure, maybe the regulars can confirm but it might be problematic on secrets or some other stupid law to cover the saf backside.
and yes, i remember reading on the newspaper that deferment will not be allowed for pple doing the 2 years ns, not sure if thats the complete story though, do check it up with your s1 or mindef
Cant imagine when everyone wants to beat the rules, goes to the mp, whine and get their way. -
Ermmm i personally wonder how did yr CO ever get to know abt this. In the 1st place you u talk with yr PC or OC and 99% they tell u to go ahead and dun get caught. They say by right cannot this ... cannot that .. Have you not learn in yr army time that its a place where every assholes cover their assholes. Comfirm if i CO if u come and ask me silly stuff that is stated in directive , i will say no. But will i charge a person that is going ORD for studies reasons. Definate no no, if u do get charge i am sure u be the 1st and all the media will know about it and make a big bang. I am sure yr CO knows abt that too. And its only one month what u think will happen in one month.
Situation so simple just take overseas leave for as long as yr leave allows and then off or whatever way u like.
Before i ORD i had little leave left having gone for 2 holidays during NS, i told my QM and RQ that i be clearing MC. I had like almost 4 weeks of MC and was outside almost everyday during the last 3 weeks. I am proud to say in my 2 years of army i never went to tekong once , never pass my ippt and never went to a single outfield. Yet i did my work well and did others work too. Once i had medical appointments the whole week but my work was done and nobody bothered me. If u can do your own work and sometimes other's , do whatever u want, dun get caught , dun abuse and you be fine. -
complaining =/= whining. besides, at least those pple trying to change things rather than just take it lying downOriginally posted by Twice A Day:Yes hits the nail with this 1...Reflect to mp and seek advice...Some one said abt complaining to mp and making noise...Please...Dont act like babies crying..
Cant imagine when everyone wants to beat the rules, goes to the mp, whine and get their way. -
u shouldnt let NS affect your studies ...NSF like everyone else serves the country its a given that if we are to study it should be the highest priority.....no one should stop u from studying...its a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT go write some letters/complain/find MP whatever it takes...
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ur CO is right, u can be charged
wat u should do is find ur S1, apply early ord using leaves n offs to cover. -
I'm not boastful...I'm arrogant...
Just seek out your MP, after all you parents pay taxes, let them do some work.
Say didn't they have a pay increment.