Most Info Loaded: RSAF Pilot / WSO Applicants' Tips & Tricks
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Originally posted by Gloater:
Oh really? " above 80% of the fleet is 777s"?
According to CD pilot, the current SAI fleet is
"A380s, B777s, A345s and the yet to be retired 747s.
On order are A333s (Leases), A350XWB, B787(forgot the actual model)."
So out of these, A380, B777, A345, A333, A350 and B787, you say that 777 makes up OVER 80% of its fleet?
Yes, the B777 makes up over 80% of the fleet. You can try wiki or SIA's website itself. Please get your facts right before you post.
A333s, A350 & B787 are all not yet delivered.
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31 years old major without degree? its damn hard..
and erm, there is no such thing as a 26 years old degree holder pilot unless you're a scholar.. most pilots less the scholars who decides to take up a degree course only gets to go uni after they get their Cat B which is around 27 years old.
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someone mentioned that SIA FO makes 4k a month? I believe they make alot more than that. If you refer to cheezers source, the one from airlinepilot.com entry salary is around 5-8k for 777 pilot, and 5-9K for 747 pilots. These are just basic salary. According to the same source from airlinepilots.com, and also from askcaptainlim.com( website is down right now due to hackers) FO makes about 4-6 K of allowances every month. That would add up to approximately 9-14K for SIA pilots. silkair pilots make a little less, while cargo pilots make a little more if im not wrong(due to the time they spend away from home). This would probably be slightly more than the 31 year old major. ( assuming the major makes 4-5k basic salary+ maximum for all 3 allowances) however its quite unlikely for a non scholar to make major at 31. Captain salary is also true from cheezer's source. With allowances, captains can make more than 20k a month.(10-15k basic+approximately 10k allowances) Also, SIA pilots fly more than 20-30 hours i believe, most of them fly around 70-80 hours. This makes sense if you think about it, because the legal limit they can fly is 100 hours a month, it wouldnt make sense to just employ them to fly 20-30.
btw cheezers, can u explain the difference between the pilot allowance, variable alowance and the flying allowance? lol
and also, for a more detailed breakdown of their salary, you can visit http://www.alpas.org/alpas/indcom/CA2005.pdf
this is the 2004 collective agreement between the pilots union and SIA. It has since expired, but the new numbers are definitely going to be approximately equal to the old ones.
oh ya and also, the same guy mentioned his friend got something like 5 months bonus? This is likely as i've read from another source, this one from a famous ex stewardess blog ranting about how her pilot boifriend gets 6 months of bonus. I can find the source and put it up if you want though its up to you to believe it.
and, the collective agreement right, the salary part starts from page 54/230 onwards. it also covers allowances, pay for other duties, promotion reward and alot of stuff. you can ask me if ur lazy to read cos i actually read the whole thing ( dont ask me why).
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Originally posted by Gloater:
Like it or not, you can glorify SIA all you want. It will always be known nowadays as the airline with ugly stewardesses who think that they are Paris Hilton haha and it's only a matter of time that it goes under when it's already making a loss.
thats
why now have to charge a pittance of peanuts of USD$100 for exit
row seats. Sad... http://www.straitstimes.com/ST+Forum/Story/STIStory_298885.html*buzz sound. wrong answer, they are making money.
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Originally posted by bloodsucker:
Dude u rock. I have never liked those autopilots, and now u give me even more reason to dislike those fat white clowns.
you dislike them cos they can fly on autopilot?
call em clowns if you want but if you're intending on going overseas by rowing a boat, by all means.
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Come on guys. You have to admit that both types of pilots are professional. Just that they do slightly different things.
Think about it, who flies you to training and back?
Air Force Pilots require Airline Pilots for transport at times. Airline Pilots require Air Force Pilots to keep the skies clear of bandits so airliners can fly safely.
Lets just quit arguing or it will never end.
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oh ya and also want to ask what "operational status B" means. is it equal to returning from the US? because if so right, then a typical F-16 pilot who gets his wings at 21, goes to US for 2 years, comes back at 23, should be able to go to university by 24/25 right? Or does attaining this status require more training upon return to Singapore?
and according to cheezers ( who's a pilot right?) about 1/3 to 1/4 of pilots take the LSA and go to uni, any idea why so little of them go to uni? Is it because of the reduced allowance?
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Originally posted by CD the pilot:
Yes, the B777 makes up over 80% of the fleet. You can try wiki or SIA's website itself. Please get your facts right before you post.
A333s, A350 & B787 are all not yet delivered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Airlines_fleet#Current_fleetYup, 76 out of the 101 planes are B772s and B773s. approximately 80% before the arrival of the new A380 I guess.
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Originally posted by mrblitzer21:
btw cheezers, can u explain the difference between the pilot allowance, variable alowance and the flying allowance? lol
oh ya and also, the same guy mentioned his friend got something like 5 months bonus? This is likely as i've read from another source, this one from a famous ex stewardess blog ranting about how her pilot boifriend gets 6 months of bonus. I can find the source and put it up if you want though its up to you to believe it.
yr that blog + the pilot bf = SIA pilot or airforce pilot? damn if airforce guy get 6 mths bonus i wanna complain man. where's my money!?!? haha.okay pilot pay in RSAF.
rank pay + variable allowance is the same as other services for equivalent rank/educational status(scheme A for poly/a level, scheme B for grads)
extra stuff for pilots- pilot allowance(dependant on rank)
flying allowance(dependant on Operational Cat + fly required number of hours).
so if you don't fly you don't get your flying allowance. i.e those who are on study.
so pilot pay = basicpay+flying allowance+variable allowance+rank allowance
clearer now?
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Originally posted by mrblitzer21:
oh ya and also want to ask what "operational status B" means. is it equal to returning from the US? because if so right, then a typical F-16 pilot who gets his wings at 21, goes to US for 2 years, comes back at 23, should be able to go to university by 24/25 right? Or does attaining this status require more training upon return to Singapore?
and according to cheezers ( who's a pilot right?) about 1/3 to 1/4 of pilots take the LSA and go to uni, any idea why so little of them go to uni? Is it because of the reduced allowance?
when you get your wings after you finish your training- you get posted to you first unit and you start learning or "converting" onto your aircraft type. you're considered as Ops Conversion.
then you pass out you go through the various levels from D up to A. the earliest they'll release a guy for studies is when he makes cat B. stating real life example, 19 yr old guy a level sign on will probably get to study about 25/26 that time period. so assuming you finish your training at 22, you probably have a good 4 yrs of operational flying before you go study.
well, like i mentioned. when you study you get a slight pay cut, but they pay for your studies. however bear in mind the time you take to study (4 years), in which your peers who have not studied would have gained a seniority of 4 years in addition to the extra allowance + bonus which you do not get when studying. the cumulative amount in 4 years is substantial. even after you graduate you'll be catching up with the amount they have already earned more than you.
besides, if you don't really intend to stay in the organisation then don't study because you leave earlier. but if you want to stay on longer then its a good option to study because your pay increases to graduate level once you finish your studies and your career advancement slightly improved + obviously graduate has better career prospects even if you decide to leave the force later. but anyway the airforce has been looking or might have changed some of its policy to make the studying option more 'attractive' for the people. i'm not sure if there is because not relevant to me already so didn't check on it.
then again, some people after working for so long just don't feel like going back to uni again. so you can't force them right? haha. it's decent pay anyway for a non-grad, just have to make sure you stay healthy enough to do your job. :)
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Gloater, I'm very curious about your sources of information on SAI pilots, i.e. the work they do and the pay they get.
I guess your pilot friends are either very junior dropouts of flying college or just not telling the truth. I know for a fact that most pilots never disclose their pay truthfully to their non pilot friend.
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Originally posted by CD the pilot:
Come on guys. You have to admit that both types of pilots are professional. Just that they do slightly different things.
Think about it, who flies you to training and back?
Air Force Pilots require Airline Pilots for transport at times. Airline Pilots require Air Force Pilots to keep the skies clear of bandits so airliners can fly safely.
Lets just quit arguing or it will never end.
well said.
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Originally posted by Pablo:
Gloater, I'm very curious about your sources of information on SAI pilots, i.e. the work they do and the pay they get.
I guess your pilot friends are either very junior dropouts of flying college or just not telling the truth. I know for a fact that most pilots never disclose their pay truthfully to their non pilot friend.
you know the empty vessel makes the most noise?
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Originally posted by cheeze:
when you get your wings after you finish your training- you get posted to you first unit and you start learning or "converting" onto your aircraft type. you're considered as Ops Conversion.
then you pass out you go through the various levels from D up to A. the earliest they'll release a guy for studies is when he makes cat B. stating real life example, 19 yr old guy a level sign on will probably get to study about 25/26 that time period. so assuming you finish your training at 22, you probably have a good 4 yrs of operational flying before you go study.
well, like i mentioned. when you study you get a slight pay cut, but they pay for your studies. however bear in mind the time you take to study (4 years), in which your peers who have not studied would have gained a seniority of 4 years in addition to the extra allowance + bonus which you do not get when studying. the cumulative amount in 4 years is substantial. even after you graduate you'll be catching up with the amount they have already earned more than you.
besides, if you don't really intend to stay in the organisation then don't study because you leave earlier. but if you want to stay on longer then its a good option to study because your pay increases to graduate level once you finish your studies and your career advancement slightly improved + obviously graduate has better career prospects even if you decide to leave the force later. but anyway the airforce has been looking or might have changed some of its policy to make the studying option more 'attractive' for the people. i'm not sure if there is because not relevant to me already so didn't check on it.
then again, some people after working for so long just don't feel like going back to uni again. so you can't force them right? haha. it's decent pay anyway for a non-grad, just have to make sure you stay healthy enough to do your job. :)
SIA pilot lol. Thanks alot. I always thought an F-16 pilot would reach Cat B upon return from US, because during the 2 years there he goes through alot of advance training after the conversion course right. Any chance that the specific description for the individual status isnt classified? =P -
Originally posted by mrblitzer21:
SIA pilot lol. Thanks alot. I always thought an F-16 pilot would reach Cat B upon return from US, because during the 2 years there he goes through alot of advance training after the conversion course right. Any chance that the specific description for the individual status isnt classified? =P
okay, we do send our pilots to the US for initial F16 training with the ANG unit in tucson. and we do have a permanent detachment there in arizona. so let's say if you just finished your conversion you're cat D after you pass out from tucson. but for the rsaf detachment when you come back you're more senior already. so maybe you got confused over there. one is initial training and one is permanant detachment n training agreement we have with them. so yah, you may return as a B after the permanent detachment but that would be at least a good 3 to 4 years after you've attained your wings which is about the 25 + 1 or 2 years region for a typical guy.what specific description? what is the different cat status about? let's just say its operational proficiency and leave it as that. anything else go ask airforce recruitment. heh.
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Originally posted by cheeze:
okay, we do send our pilots to the US for initial F16 training with the ANG unit in tucson. and we do have a permanent detachment there in arizona. so let's say if you just finished your conversion you're cat D after you pass out from tucson. but for the rsaf detachment when you come back you're more senior already. so maybe you got confused over there. one is initial training and one is permanant detachment n training agreement we have with them. so yah, you may return as a B after the permanent detachment but that would be at least a good 3 to 4 years after you've attained your wings which is about the 25 + 1 or 2 years region for a typical guy.what specific description? what is the different cat status about? let's just say its operational proficiency and leave it as that. anything else go ask airforce recruitment. heh.
oh i see. yea i was referring to the detachment at luke AFB, Arizona.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/425th_Fighter_Squadron
thanks alot. so what do u fly? =D
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F-5S?
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Guys, let's come to a consensus.
I think it's important for us to focus on the core issue at hand and ignore all the distractions that have bogged this discussion.
The myth that needs to be debunked is that the pay of commerical pilots > SAF pilot.
This is patently true, as justified by the hard figures provided by Gloater. Anyone who second guessed first hand sources are just abiding blindly by their own hearsays and prejudices. For these people, not even an official media print could convince them otherwise.
Gloater - GJ in your analysis. Although I still must say this, your message could be brought across in a less antagonistic tone. And don't dismiss other people's personal accounts when you use that to bolster your own stand at the same time.
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Originally posted by Fu:
SIA cadet pilot selection seems to hover around the age of 26 for males now. I'm just bit puzzled how come people who got selected into SIA were not initially selected by rsaf in their NS days as pilots?
an rsaf pilot requires a different skill set of that of an sia pilot.
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Originally posted by Fu:
SIA cadet pilot selection seems to hover around the age of 26 for males now. I'm just bit puzzled how come people who got selected into SIA were not initially selected by rsaf in their NS days as pilots?
NSmen Pilot? lol -
Originally posted by Fu:
SIA cadet pilot selection seems to hover around the age of 26 for males now. I'm just bit puzzled how come people who got selected into SIA were not initially selected by rsaf in their NS days as pilots?
NSmen Pilot? lol -
cheeze i need to ask u some questions.
i went for my wso(ftr) test on june 07, enlisted and when to tekong sep 07.
during bmt i called cmpb and was told i passed the test. cmpb ask me to wait for medical and interview.
however after bmt, i didnt make it to OCS (i didnt tell my pc about me interested in signing on as wso.)
the questions are :
is it true that even those people that didnt qualify for OCS can get selected?
any advices for me? do i have to keep calling cmpb??
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i am going for my medical check up for wso and not sure where to drop if i take 90 there. Anyone can enlighten me?
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Originally posted by CD the pilot:
Yes, the B777 makes up over 80% of the fleet. You can try wiki or SIA's website itself. Please get your facts right before you post.
A333s, A350 & B787 are all not yet delivered.
If you can say "You can try wiki or SIA's website itself", you can show me the URL then let me ascertain the truth through that, if i think it's credible enough. I have yet to see it that is why I am not convinced so I hope to be convinced, and i'm not. SIA pilots I know, first officers, all mediocre nobodies told me how much they earn. It's all about supply and demand. if commercial airlines really pay so much more than other competitive quarters, the other quarters will be priced out when hiring. If they really pay so much more than the competing sectors that hire employees of the same skillsets and qualifications, people will be queuing to apply for years without giving up despite rejection.
A president's scholar once told me: salary is all about market forces and supply and demand. Thus it's never too high or low when judged against the skillsets required, only because of that.
If SIA pays commercial AUTO pilots so much more than all other employers that demand for the same skills and more (which are fighter pilots which is much harder to become), there will be a tilt, an imbalance and everyone in society will see the gravity shift. It's as simple as that.
Anyway at the end of the day even if you argue till the cows come home that they earn so much more, they still dun earn the respect of people. And they're still easy to become. They dun require you to be an officer. They dun require physical rigors.They dun require anything at all! go to the streets now and you'll find the road paved with dip and degree holders. All of them qualify. My opinion of them will always remain the same.