A life ruined by SAF
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Originally posted by MS:
You have never done career planning for yourself or your subordinates before? Like what is the benchmark pay and rank you should achieve by the time you reach your 3rd 4th 5th etc year of service. Also at the same time, segregate the jobs clearly for your men in order to prevent double jobs and fully exploit the potential of your men in this way everybody gets to keep their jobs and you manage your labour size adequately. This is some basic middle level management skills.I
There are ranking exercises in bigger companies like GLCs, and in smaller companies, the HOD does official appraisal for each employee under his/her charge (no ranking cos company is too small to have a bell curve). The ranking exercise tells the staff how he's doing, his ranking, and how far he can go, what/where he can go in the company to suit his strengths. But there is NO mapped out or guaranteed career path (which was what you hinted by saying "long term PLANNED career") or long term planning beyond the next few years, unless someone is so highly regarded that he's groomed for top position which doesn't happen because he has to prove himself along the way after each appraisal before you can talk cock beyond the next rank. But seriously even Jackson Tai wouldn't have had that! LOL.
Can you deny that SAF also ranks its staff? why do you claim only your company or "civilian sector" whatever that means, do that?
Also, you haven't answered me regarding your contradiction on staff you said "leaving voluntarily", yet they were used as examples to say that SAF axes people.
In any case, I dont wish to argue further with you. I know SAF ranks its staff, so if you think only your company or in your words "civilian sector" does that, you're holding many illusions that should be shattered, and I don't wish to continue this interminable debate with you any longer, esp when I feel you don't make sense in your speech. As for personal, i'm not the only one, you as well, so that makes the 2 of us.
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
Hi I'm not interested in your current CV or how fabulously you're doing now compared if you had remained in the SAF because it's irrelevant to this discussion about SAF. None of us also held illusions abt how you'd have done in the SAF.
I am merely using it to amplify the point that being in the private sector now has benefited me more. Also I was trying to correct some of your assumptions that I didn't do well in SAF that's why I was whining.Come on... don't be over-sensitive.
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Actually your account doesn't benefit most of us. And definitely not me. It benefits the super gung ho guy, saf4life who always posts "LEAN MEAN AND GREEN".
He's already signed on and is full of enthusiasm. I think he has more integrity than so many others who signed on knowingly to make use of SAF in the interim or only signed on for the monetary incentives. As irritating as some posters say he is, I think he has one thing that is valued by any organisation. PASSION!
saf4life, hope you have a jolly good time at Starlight!
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
There are ranking exercises in bigger companies like GLCs, and in smaller companies, the HOD does official appraisal for each employee under his/her charge (no ranking cos company is too small to have a bell curve). The ranking exercise tells the staff how he's doing, his ranking, and how far he can go, what/where he can go in the company to suit his strengths. But there is NO mapped out or guaranteed career path (which was what you hinted by saying "long term PLANNED career") or long term planning beyond the next few years, unless someone is so highly regarded that he's groomed for top position which doesn't happen because he has to prove himself along the way after each appraisal before you can talk cock beyond the next rank. But seriously even Jackson Tai wouldn't have had that! LOL.
In any case, I dont wish to argue further with you. I know SAF also ranks its specialists, so if you think only your company does that, you're holding many illusions that should be shattered, and I don't wish to continue this interminable debate with you any longer, esp when I feel you don't make sense in your speech. As for personal, i'm not the only one, you as well, so that makes the 2 of us.
I believe much has been said. But you simply just unable to comprehend my points.
During my army days, I have never given out even 1 extra to any of my guys. Because I strongly believe in giving the guy an opportunity to decide whether he wants to work under me or not. And let him take account of his own actions. And it always work out well. There're always chances to transfer him elsewhere. It makes no sense to force someone to suffer and in the end affects the job negatively.
Likewise, I have no wish to force you to agree with my points. I respect what you just said. And surely it will be better for you to experience things yourself than to argue till the cows come home and cause the forum to be burnt and affect the rest.
All the best to you.
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well, like the thread title said: a life ruined by SAF!! think of tis: an army regular committed an offence tat was purely accidental. it wasnt pre-planned nor conspired. due to the severity of the offence, he was thron behind bars n discharged from SAF...however, 1 thing wasnt taken into account. it was a PURE ACCIDENT, no one including the regular meant it to happen...nw, cos of some rigid, man-made rules, his entire life has been ruined by SAF!!! my qn is: a man who committed a grave offence which was purely accidental, is he one of bad character? of cuz nt...then y is he being thrown behind bars n categorised as a criminal(ex-convict when he is out) like all other "genuine" criminals who committed pre-planned crimes???
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
MS. you seem to think that SAF owes you a living. Yes you signed on as a specialist and it did not work out for some reason. Don't always be so quick to blame the organisation and system before you do soul searching on yourself and other variables.
I personally feel that SAF is a very merciful and kind employer. Why? Simple. Having been an NSF and having many regular friends and having been in the private sector for eons, I have seen SAF condone and retain so many people, that I dare say cannot last and hack it in the private sector. Throw these people in the private sector for one day and they'll combust within the first hour.
The SAF pays its personnel very very well, far above what these people can command in the private sector. That is a renowned fact, and has always been the case. Go around and ask anyone out there. And this has been the case even before SAF recently increased the pay for its personnels. Now it's even more pronounced.
Take officers for eg. Let's not talk about high flying SAFOS who have US$200K per annum offers from consultancies and investment banks upon graduation from Harvard and MIT, and PhD offers aplenty that they can't take up, for obvious reason- their bond. (wanna bet? I have many close SAFOS friends who have such offers, from Merril Lynch and Mckinsey)
The typical farmer diploma holder who signs on as officer or even specialist gets way more than what he can get with his diploma in the private sector, good and bad times. Most dip holders in the private sector take on support job functions. Eng dip holders are Engin Assistants. Accounts dip holders are Acct assistants and get less than 1.8 to 2K or they do sales jobs with low base salary of around $1.4K. Even for graduates. Do you know how much SAF pays its farmer graduates?!?! The typical farmer graduate can NEVER command that kind of salary that SAF pays its farmer officers, even young CPTs. If you're talking abt MAJ and LTC, which a lot of farmers do end up, the difference between their pay in SAF and what they can get once they leave is even more phenomenal!
Wanna talk about BS politics and rank pulling? From your stories you write it as though you were so aggrieved, like you never encountered anything so heinous but honestly it sounds very amateurish. Why? The encounters are very normal of any company in the workforce, it's the way you portray it and your reaction that makes it really amateurish sounding man!
Wanna talk bout backstabbing, bitching, politics, bullying? YOU aint seen nothing yet.
I have friend who are junior lawyers, who are bullied and verbally abused by their superiors. I have journalist friends in big listed company (no need to say which one) who get yelled at by their superiors and colleagues in the middle of the newsroom. My good friend, a young graduate journalist then was called by her editor to the latter's cubicle, the latter had her work pinned up on the wall, she made my friend stand in front of the piece, and yelled at my friend and went through each line at the top of her voice and she told her that she's a useless fuck and the whole work floor heard everything.
A friend in the advertising industry, whose direct superior was trying to get close in a more than professional way with the male HOD. When the male HOD was interested in my friend and got very close to her, the direct superior rallied everyone in the team and form an alliance against my friend and bullied her and ousted her out.
Another friend in a public listed GLC whose superior, a bitchy woman didn't like her for no reason (just not shiok lah) even though her work was good (can be proven because she's always had a good ranking and good performance and joined the company way earlier before the superior joined), and during ranking exercise verbally abused her and told she'll never cut it in this industry and told her to wake up and get lost.
Politicking and backstabbing are even more prevalent in the private sector because people are not on contracts and people can be fired. Cocksucking, alliances for survival and backstabbing are the order of the day man.
In the armed forces, the male dominated environment makes it very egostically charged and that's the cause of a lot of the competitiveness but in the private sector it's worse, if not equal because women are harder to deal with, and it's a matter of survival because it's not an iron rice bowl. Not only rubbing people off the wrong way in ONE company is bad, if you garner a bad rep in one company, it spreads to the whole industry.
Seriously when i read what you write - your self righteous and self centred whinings about the SAF, it concludes to me clearly that you simply 1) did not make it in the SAF 2) you took it upon the SAF and never questioned whether it was due to any OTHER factor than the organisation wronging you 3) you expected SAF to spoonfeed its personnels and act like a charity.
What? Do you think just because SAF funded by the government, it's obliged to act like a charity and retain people in spite of its own organisational and operational needs and betterment? How do you think that makes taxpayers, who are in effect funding the SAF feel? Now that you're in the private sector and are one of them, can't you feel that? Of cos you can't. Because you see yourself as a maligned, aggrived and hard done by victim of SAF when it did nothing to you.
The SAF is a company like any other. Too bad it didn't work out there FOR YOU (But i can assure you that I have high flying friends whose careers not only work out but are well treasured by the SAF and they're very dedicated to the organisation).
Your skills did not fit the organisation's needs and what the organisation wanted to offer you best to what it deems to be YOUR abilities was not sufficient for you.
Move on and let go. SAF is NOT a charity.
SAF is not a charity but it is not a best organization. I have seen my fair share of incompetent WO who barely can use MS Office n they have the audicity to give extra to their clerk for not being able to help them type the RO.
U talk about politicking in the private sector being worse than the SAF? I think u should go reflect on this stattement. Now with the ten year premium plan in place, how many SSG n MSG will be forming alliance just to curry favour to their superior in order to secure their second ten year premium plan? U mentioned about people being yelled or shamed, perhaps ur fren should start talking back to them or report the matter to MOM. I have seen my share of colleauges in the private sector who even talked back to their superiors n their superiors are too shocked or stunned to quarrel back. Before u go on about saying SAF is not a charity, u should refelct on ur statement as to why SAF owed the servicemen esp those NSF a living?
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ok guys. its better not to argue further. because seriously, none of you are regulars am i right? so all knowledge is based on hearsay and previous experience as NSF....and which is dated when? the bottomline is...everyone has different perspective of life and ultimately SAF. how we view SAF is our personal thought. you may like, you may hate it, u may dislike it but don't mind serving, or you're a die die private sector person...it doesn't matter. what matters is that we do our NS. different environment appeal to different ppl due to our different mindset and likes/dislikes. SAF like other working organization has its own sets of rules to obey. people who are comfortable with the rules sign on, and those who are not will feel more comfortable working in the commercial world. its a matter of an individual's perspective, experience, mindset and preference. to some soldiering is a comfortable thing to do compared to sitting in the office 9 to 6. i know of an SOF personnel who wldnt give up what he is doing to go to the commercial world. he will be a total misfit, he simply loves what he is doing. and what he is doing, is madness as we shld all know.
so no point arguing already right? SAF bad or not, is a personal point of view. we just "follow law", do things swee-swee can already.
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Originally posted by despondent:
well, like the thread title said: a life ruined by SAF!!
think of tis: an army regular committed an offence tat was purely accidental. it wasnt pre-planned nor conspired. due to the severity of the offence, he was thron behind bars n discharged from SAF…however, 1 thing wasnt taken into account. it was a PURE ACCIDENT, no one including the regular meant it to happen…nw, cos of some rigid, man-made rules, his entire life has been ruined by SAF!!! my qn is: a man who committed a grave offence which was purely accidental, is he one of bad character? of cuz nt…then y is he being thrown behind bars n categorised as a criminal(ex-convict when he is out) like all other “genuine” criminals who committed pre-planned crimes???
Aiyo what offence do you mean when you say regulars are actually jailed and yet the crime was very minor?? You mean the officers and sergeants who were involved in the dunking incident? Aren't they guilty of their crimes? They were very innocent meh? They caused the life of an NSF due to their brash negligence and flouting of protocol. Is that very innocent?
FYI even those regulars who were connected to the Dave Teo incident didn't receive any punishment from the martial law eg DB or discharged. They were just "marked" only and their negligence allowed Teo to walk away from a live firing with live rounds. Can you imagine the harm and consequences of their negligence if Dave Teo utilised those live rounds with the rifle that he walked out with in the middle of orchard road?
Can you tell me some of these incidents you know of? since you sound like you know a lot?
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Originally posted by will4:
U mentioned about people being yelled or shamed, perhaps ur fren should start talking back to them or report the matter to MOM. I have seen my share of colleauges in the private sector who even talked back to their superiors n their superiors are too shocked or stunned to quarrel back.
You say you have friends who yelled back at their boss and their boss was stunned? So were your friends still happily employed? I'm assuming that the boss in question is their direct superior that has a say over their ranking as well appraisal. So you're saying that you know ppl in private sector who go around yelling at their boss, who looked on shell shocked and the yellers happily continued to flourish there?
Then from what I know of the private sector, those people are sleeping with a bigger boss. I hope you can justify the logical possibility of large groups of people in your testimony, possibly yelling at their bosses in a hostile way and getting away with it.
MOM? You gotta be kidding! When has the SG government protected workers from yelling at the workplace?! Hahahahhahahahh!!! The government's main concern is ensuring that foreign investors come to invest here by setting up shop due to the way the economy is. We're highly dependent on foreign investment and a stable workforce and environment are the primary factors to that. When has the governmnent condoned actions that disrupt the corporate flourish and greater good of the economy eg worker strikes, street protest?
MOM only steps in when a worker is not given the salary due to him. No one has ever heard of anyone reporting a yelling incident at work, which is highly common in large companies and select industries here to the MOM. You have to got to be kidding.
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ididnt say the crime was minor...i admit these crimes r serious but on the basis tat it was purely accidental, shld u stil jail the regular n discharge him from SAF??? in other words, serious but accidental...ruin his entire future or punish him in other severe ways but allow him to keep his job? i am nt particularly against sending a person to jail for sth serious but y must they discharge him from SAF??? if u tell me tat after serving the jail term, he is allowed back to SAF, then by all means, jail him for the offence. if he is nt given a criminal record after he has been jailed on account tat his offence was purely accidental, then by all means jail him. however, when u look at the way such things work, tis is usually nt the case. since when has SAF allow a regular to go back to work in the military after he has been jailed??? to make things worse, the jail term leaves him a criminal record tat threatens to ruin his entire future. finding a job would be many time more difficult...
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Originally posted by despondent:
well, like the thread title said: a life ruined by SAF!!
think of tis: an army regular committed an offence tat was purely accidental. it wasnt pre-planned nor conspired. due to the severity of the offence, he was thron behind bars n discharged from SAF…however, 1 thing wasnt taken into account. it was a PURE ACCIDENT, no one including the regular meant it to happen…nw, cos of some rigid, man-made rules, his entire life has been ruined by SAF!!! my qn is: a man who committed a grave offence which was purely accidental, is he one of bad character? of cuz nt…then y is he being thrown behind bars n categorised as a criminal(ex-convict when he is out) like all other “genuine” criminals who committed pre-planned crimes???
Hello,
Is it possible to be more specific as to how accidental is the case you're refering to? Because from the point of law, accident can happen due to one's negligence. As an Officer or Specialist of the SAF, if it happen that that regular owe a duty of care to the victim while the accident happened, then an investigation would have to confer as to whether or not is it negligent.
I remember I was the vehicle commander for this 5-tonner. The NSF driver drove the 5-tonner and almost hit one of the traffic light while U-turning. Whose head will roll first if it happened? Me, of course. Any appointment holder, especially regulars know this game very well. I think it is often mentioned, we are conscript army, we cannot expect every soldiers to be vigiliant in their duties. So this onus of responsibilities will be pushed to the appointment holders to make sure no screw ups. But of course, realities ain't perfect, so when shit happens, the appointment holders have to roll their heads.
It's this simple.
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Originally posted by despondent:
ididnt say the crime was minor…i admit these crimes r serious but on the basis tat it was purely accidental, shld u stil jail the regular n discharge him from SAF??? in other words, serious but accidental…ruin his entire future or punish him in other severe ways but allow him to keep his job? i am nt particularly against sending a person to jail for sth serious but y must they discharge him from SAF??? if u tell me tat after serving the jail term, he is allowed back to SAF, then by all means, jail him for the offence. if he is nt given a criminal record after he has been jailed on account tat his offence was purely accidental, then by all means jail him. however, when u look at the way such things work, tis is usually nt the case. since when has SAF allow a regular to go back to work in the military after he has been jailed??? to make things worse, the jail term leaves him a criminal record tat threatens to ruin his entire future. finding a job would be many time more difficult…
i have asked u a few times to give me examples of what you know. you just keep on hor, going on and on but without a real example, none of us can actually determine whether the case you're going on abt is deserving of jail term or not. I have listed out the cases of which i know, where the regulars went to jail (the commando dunking incident) and where the regulars did not go to jail at all (dave teo).
You cannot even come up with something leh uncle!
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Originally posted by will4:
SAF is not a charity but it is not a best organization. I have seen my fair share of incompetent WO who barely can use MS Office n they have the audicity to give extra to their clerk for not being able to help them type the RO.
U talk about politicking in the private sector being worse than the SAF? I think u should go reflect on this stattement. Now with the ten year premium plan in place, how many SSG n MSG will be forming alliance just to curry favour to their superior in order to secure their second ten year premium plan? U mentioned about people being yelled or shamed, perhaps ur fren should start talking back to them or report the matter to MOM. I have seen my share of colleauges in the private sector who even talked back to their superiors n their superiors are too shocked or stunned to quarrel back. Before u go on about saying SAF is not a charity, u should refelct on ur statement as to why SAF owed the servicemen esp those NSF a living?
Oh you may like to know that MOM does not entertain any case of executives (any person earning above 1.8 or 2K) is considered executive. Only low wage workers' complaints are entertained. Check with MOM if you don't believe me. Complain to MOM for boss yelling at you in pte sector? TKK. Tan Ku Ku.
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
Oh you may like to know that MOM does not entertain any case of executives (any person earning above 1.8 or 2K) is considered executive. Only low wage workers' complaints are entertained. Check with MOM if you don't believe me. Complain to MOM for boss yelling at you in pte sector? TKK. Tan Ku Ku.
I have a colleuge earning two thousand n she was never paid despite having served the notice n she complained to MOM n the she got paid in the end.
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
You say you have friends who yelled back at their boss and their boss was stunned? So were your friends still happily employed? I'm assuming that the boss in question is their direct superior that has a say over their ranking as well appraisal. So you're saying that you know ppl in private sector who go around yelling at their boss, who looked on shell shocked and the yellers happily continued to flourish there?
Then from what I know of the private sector, those people are sleeping with a bigger boss. I hope you can justify the logical possibility of large groups of people in your testimony, possibly yelling at their bosses in a hostile way and getting away with it.
MOM? You gotta be kidding! When has the SG government protected workers from yelling at the workplace?! Hahahahhahahahh!!! The government's main concern is ensuring that foreign investors come to invest here by setting up shop due to the way the economy is. We're highly dependent on foreign investment and a stable workforce and environment are the primary factors to that. When has the governmnent condoned actions that disrupt the corporate flourish and greater good of the economy eg worker strikes, street protest?
MOM only steps in when a worker is not given the salary due to him. No one has ever heard of anyone reporting a yelling incident at work, which is highly common in large companies and select industries here to the MOM. You have to got to be kidding.
Correct to say that many of these people who talked back to their booses managed to find work. Anyway I have seen a PTE during my NSF days quarelled n fought with a 1SG in Mindef. Haiz never really thought got this PTEis so daring to fight in front of the WO. I am not surprised if such cases do exist in private sector. Sleeping with the boss, u being to assumptious.
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Originally posted by will4:
have a colleuge earning two thousand n she was never paid despite having served the notice n she complained to MOM n the she got paid in the end.
I said MOM only deals with money owed to employees and workplace injuries. Pls read above.
You may like to read what the Employment Act in Singapore covers and who it excludes. People who earn more than $1600 as executive do not get the benefits or rest days of the Act and anyone deemed to be managerial level is not covered by the act at all. Also, Employment Act does not care about yelling. if you like to complain about yelling, MOM will ask you to file your own civil suit in court as a personal case.
http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/communities/workplace_standards/employment_standards/the_employment_act/Who_the_Employment_Act_Covers.html
Who the Employment Act Covers
The Employment Act covers every employee (regardless of nationality) who is under a contract of service with an employer, except:
a)Any person employed in a managerial, executive * or confidential position **;
b)Any seaman;
c)Any domestic worker; and
d)Any person employed by a Statutory Board or the Government.Part IV of the Act, which provides for rest days, hours of work, holidays and other conditions of service, applies only to:
a)Workmen *** and
b)Employees who earn a salary not exceeding $1,600 a month.* Managers and executives
In general, an employee is deemed to be holding a managerial or executive position if he/she has direct authority or influence in the hiring, firing, promotion, transfer, reward or discipline of other employees; or
His/her main duties are the formulating of strategies and policies of the enterprise, and the management and running of the business.
** Confidential position
Given access to classified information relating to terms of employment of other employees, or financial positions, business operations/trade secrets of employer.
*** Workmen
A workman is an employee whose work involves manual labour. This includes a worker who falls under any of the following categories:a)Any person, skilled or unskilled, doing manual work, including any artisan or apprentice but excluding any seaman or domestic servant;
b)Any person, other than clerical staff, employed in the operation or maintenance of mechanically propelled vehicles that transport passengers, for hire or commercial purposes;
c)Any person employed to supervise any workman and perform manual work. However, this is subject to the requirement that the time spent on manual work must be more than half of the total working time in a salary period; or
d)Any person specified in the First Schedule of the Employment Act, namely:-
Bus conductor;
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Bus inspector;
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Bus, lorry and van drivers;
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Lorry attendant;
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Goldsmith and silversmith employed at the employer's premises;
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Tailor and dressmaker employed at the employer's premises;
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Harbour-craft crew; and
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Workmen employed on piece rates at the employer's premises.
It covers both local and foreign employees. It does not make any distinction between a temporary employee, contract employee, daily-rated employee or employee on tenured employment.
For employees working less than 30 hours a week, they are covered by the Employment of Part-Time Employees Regulations which provide certain flexibility for both the employers and employees, including the pro-rating of employment benefits, encashment of annual leave and provision of rest day.http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/communities/workplace_standards/employment_standards/the_employment_act.html
This is what MOM covers.
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Originally posted by will4:
Correct to say that many of these people who talked back to their booses managed to find work. Anyway I have seen a PTE during my NSF days quarelled n fought with a 1SG in Mindef. Haiz never really thought got this PTEis so daring to fight in front of the WO. I am not surprised if such cases do exist in private sector. Sleeping with the boss, u being to assumptious.
Managed to find work elsewhere lah? of cos can lah. As long as word doesn't get around if one prays hard enough lah. Still stay in the company and flourish meh? I never said that rogue employees don't brashly throw tantrums or even attack or assault their colleagues or bosses. There are such cases of course, open quarrels. And they never look good and all result in the staff's dismissal or self-resignation. Clearly such cases happen but none of them gets to keep their jobs. Which is quite a redundant case to bring up here lah. We're talking about corporate survival. If I don't need to keep my job after winning TOTO tomorrow, the first person I'm scolding is my boss. I even want push a cake into her face.
If anyone doesn't mind not keeping his job, he can do what he wants. That is common sense. Is survival in the private sector and thus having to accept the crap of life the same as not surviving and thus you can do what you really want to do? Clearly your friends did not manage to keep their jobs. -
Originally posted by MS:
I do not hate SAF for your info. I do have friends serving in the SAF as regulars or NSF and still kept in contact with many of my ex colleagues.
But I do not agree to the tactics used by the force to get things done sometimes. And this is attributed to the culture of the force. And it becomes dirty politics once the culture materialise into actions.
hey come on... I'd be delighted to start a discussion with you or even healthy argument. It doesn't matter if we beg to differ. But if you start taking things personal, then it will be very hard for us to make progress.
Maybe I think we shouldn't discuss further. Feel free to PM me and I'd be very glad to make a friend out of you.
MS, the only bad thing in the SAF if a regular or NSF started yelling or too outspoken, he will be charged with insubordinate behaviour or gone in served DB n this happned to my colleuage.
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Originally posted by will4:
MS, the only bad thing in the SAF if a regular or NSF started yelling or too outspoken, he will be charged with insubordinate behaviour or gone in served DB n this happned to my colleuage.
Yes that is true. in SAF there is martial law, in private sector you will lose your job.
However it is up to the discretion of the officer. if you have a good officer then perhaps you will not end up in DB.
Is DB a real prison record? Or is it just military only? As in is it recorded by the authorities or invisible?
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
Yes that is true. in SAF there is martial law, in private sector you will lose your job.
However it is up to the discretion of the officer. if you have a good officer then perhaps you will not end up in DB.
Is DB a real prison record? Or is it just military only? As in is it recorded by the authorities or invisible?
Whether having into DB will have a real record or confined within the services in no laughing matter. Perhaps losing a job might be better than going into DB, going into DB is going to have a salary being cut.Define the good officer?
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Originally posted by will4:
Whether having into DB will have a real record or confined within the services in no laughing matter. Perhaps losing a job might be better than going into DB, going into DB is going to have a salary being cut.Define the good officer?
I just want to know whether DB is a real record. Can someone who has been to DB shed light on this? I dont think for an officer who has been to DB, he can expect to remain the force. I never heard of any regular who is still around and went to DB. I think once someone goes to DB, he is also expected to leave the force if he's a regular. Unless of cos he is serving his NSF liability, then he has to complete it.
In this context a good officer is someone who does not send another regular to DB if the offense can be mitigated. Maybe just 'mark' the person lah. DB is serious.
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from GOM , a military offence is confined to the military law. hence, when job applications forms input , tick 'no' as it is directed at offence under any public Court of criminal law... same rules as common minor traffic offense summons.
however, only db for IIRC >14 days will have a mark on the person's record in the public court of offence law.
more info for military justice system: http://www.ns.sg/nsPortal/appmanager/nsp/default?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=nsPortal_mjs
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
I just want to know whether DB is a real record. Can someone who has been to DB shed light on this? I dont think for an officer who has been to DB, he can expect to remain the force. I never heard of any regular who is still around and went to DB. I think once someone goes to DB, he is also expected to leave the force if he's a regular. Unless of cos he is serving his NSF liability, then he has to complete it.
In this context a good officer is someone who does not send another regular to DB if the offense can be mitigated. Maybe just 'mark' the person lah. DB is serious.
i dont think he would be expected to leave the force. If i am not wrong his promotion to higher ranks chances will be lower