A life ruined by SAF
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Well since he's muted, thought we'll become his voice.
And look what our Honourable SAF is resorting to, threatening? Oppression? Typical actions of the typical bully. When it all boils down, they are but a bunch of bullies with license.
When you die, its not so bad, people around you might be devastated but you cease to feel, cease to be aware, cease to need, cease to want, cease to know. But when you get stuck with a permanent handicap, no matter how resilient or jovial you may be. Every corner you turn, you'll be reminded of it, subconciously it slowly gnaws at your very soul and you'll never feel complete again till the day you lay six feet under.
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Originally posted by shade343:
What do you mean by take care of yourself? If your superior say you are ok, means you are ok. What? bypass CoC to ask for help at the threat of being send to DB?If obviously your working environment is a health hazard and if you've already tried going by the CoC, then you just skip it and find higher authority. There's life beyond the 2 years of NS. Why should we sacrifice our body to such extend that might affect our future. There's no medal to any bones we break and certainly there's no empathy for the injuries we sustained.
If your superior obviously put you in danger, they are in the wrong. Its their responsiblitiy to ensure safety of their men. And if your superior do not ensure, it's us to ensure it.
That is exactly the attitude that is the problem-- people who 'play the system', who think that it is their right to do what they want and not take responsibility for the consequences.
Yes, you may not have a choice of whether to serve or not, but since you have to serve, why not make the best of things? Do you think that always trying to find the easy way out will let you live the good life?
Again, I've said many times-- The SAF may have fucked up people, but where in life are you going to find a place/company/organisation without similar other fucked up people? Learning to deal with fucktards is part and parcel of life.
Sometimes I really sympathise with the MOs. Do you people realise that many of them are just serving their bond like you before they can go into private practice? The fact that many of them actually take pride in their work is a miracle in itself.
Lastly, and most importantly, the military is, and always will be, a DANGEROUS place. It is the nature of the job. The military is trying to train the average X-box/PS/Nintendo playing guy into a soldier who has the strength of the weightlifter, the stamina of the marathon runner, the accuracy of the competition shooter and the will to fight of the champion boxer. Regardless of all the safety procedures, accidents will happen and people will die or get injured. For example, in the past 2 months 6 US Navy SEALs have died in TRAINING accidents. They were not even in Iraq of Afghanistan!
So, in summary, be a man and stop whining! If you are normally a garang soldier, and suffered an injury which prevents you from performing your duties, your PC/PS will definately take the appropriate action. But if you have a reputation as a chao-keng, Attend-B King, just remember all the fraudulent medical leave that you took if you ever suffer an injury and get refused treatment!
Even private companies have chao keng. There's people who went to see their company doctor to get MC for nothing. There're even people who buy cough syrup from their company doc even though they do not have cough. But why didn't the doctor brand them as chao keng? Cause he's paid at a good rate.
But the MO are just like us who are NSF are paid peanuts and bound by law into serving the nation. But MO should maintain their professionalism because they are only fellow in the whole unit that help soldiers medically. So whether chao keng or not, they shouldn't be reject medical treatment.
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
As such, I hope all the commanders above that person get into trouble! This is a incident that can be avoid if they just listen to that guy!
Indeed. What makes matter worst is that they are trying to cover up this issue... -
Originally posted by WP_:
If obviously your working environment is a health hazard and if you've already tried going by the CoC, then you just skip it and find higher authority.
From what I was told in my first few weeks of enlistment, it's a chargable offense to skip the chain of command. There's life after the 2 years of NS...why get yourself into DB for such lame mistake?Go one step by one step up the chain of command...wonder how long it'll take. Hopefully before he turns blind?
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actually dunid to skip chain of command one mah.. a tip and trick: go see your specialist or family doctor on a weekend lo.. say emergency mah.. den they canot do anything..
actually if u go to the MO, and u are unsatisfied with the outcome of his verdict, just tell him la: "sir can u refer me to another MO, i feel u cannot address my problems."
not jumping CoC wat..
u know ur own body best.. u say u pain, he cannot say u no pain wat..
how retarded will the following conversation get?
pte: "sir my back still pain"
MO: "no you are not in pain"
pte: "but sir! i really pain!"
MO: "no you are not in pain!"
u ask for further checks, he cannot say dun refer u.. he shout shout say want charge u, in the end u say u really got pain, he also cannot do anything..
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
We all know that storeman do not do much work
actually ammo storeman(in this blogger's case) carry the ammo box is quite heavy one.. and there are a lot of work in the ammo depot everyday because the ammo boxes are being moved everyday..
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Originally posted by WP_:
If obviously your working environment is a health hazard and if you've already tried going by the CoC, then you just skip it and find higher authority. There's life beyond the 2 years of NS. Why should we sacrifice our body to such extend that might affect our future. There's no medal to any bones we break and certainly there's no empathy for the injuries we sustained.
If your superior obviously put you in danger, they are in the wrong. Its their responsiblitiy to ensure safety of their men. And if your superior do not ensure, it's us to ensure it.
Even private companies have chao keng. There's people who went to see their company doctor to get MC for nothing. There're even people who buy cough syrup from their company doc even though they do not have cough. But why didn't the doctor brand them as chao keng? Cause he's paid at a good rate.
But the MO are just like us who are NSF are paid peanuts and bound by law into serving the nation. But MO should maintain their professionalism because they are only fellow in the whole unit that help soldiers medically. So whether chao keng or not, they shouldn't be reject medical treatment.
You are not answering my question. Like I said, AT THE EXPENSE OF GOING DB? Did you know that calling the SAF hotline is technically considered bypassing CoC? Once you are in DB, your entire life is screwed, going DB is considered a criminal offence right-which means you cant enter uni? (somebody care to correct me on this point?)
And you might get it worst from your superiors after he finds out that you disagree with his opinions.
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--DELETED!!!--
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anyone cares to post his blog here? i went to his blog but it requres me to sign-up.
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The blog has been taken down & the author does not want it to be publish here again.
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Originally posted by shade343:
You are not answering my question. Like I said, AT THE EXPENSE OF GOING DB? Did you know that calling the SAF hotline is technically considered bypassing CoC? Once you are in DB, your entire life is screwed, going DB is considered a criminal offence right-which means you cant enter uni? (somebody care to correct me on this point?)
And you might get it worst from your superiors after he finds out that you disagree with his opinions.
You can try going by the CoC 1st. But if nothing is done or if it takes too long and your condition is deteoriating at every second, you should look for help. If your case is geniune, maybe they'll just reprimand you for skipping CoC cause they know they are putting your life in danger. Just cover backside and do what's necessary and at least this is what i did for myself.
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wha....but anyone got any back-up to post here?
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Originally posted by Nikar 3:
wha....but anyone got any back-up to post here?
Maybe you can read it from there if it is still available.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1895988&page=24
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Originally posted by Saf4life:
THIS IS TOTAL BULL!
I DONT BELIEVE THIS FELLA KENA TORTURE AS HE SAID BY THE SAF
IN THE SAF, SAFETY ALWAYS IS NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER! COMPROMISED.
GIVEN HIS WORKING ENVIRONMENT, I'M SURE HIS SUPERIORS WOULD HAVE NOTICE ANYTHING BEFORE HE CAN COME TO SUCH A 'CONDITION'.
IMHO, THIS IS JUST A PRICK TRYING TO GAIN ATTENTION, DUMB FVCK EMO KID.
THE MIGHTY SAF ALWAYS HAS A SOLDIER'S WELL BEING AS IT'S NO.1 PRIORITY AND I REALLY WISH YOU MEET THIS MOFO SO THAT I CAN GIVE HIM A RHK TO HIS FACE
I'M JUST SAD TO SEE A FELLOW SAF SOLDIER BEHAVING LIKE THIS, TOTALLY EMBARRASSING THE SPIRIT AND SOUL OF THE SAF, WE ARE SOLDIERS TODAY, WARRIORS FOREVER!
I'M APPALLED BY THE WRITER'S MATURITY AS WE MIGHTY WARRIORS OF THE SAF KNOW THAT TO DIE FOR YOUR NATION IS THE GREATEST GLORY WE CAN EVER GET IN OUR LIFE!
PAIN IS TEMPORARY, PRIDE IS FOREVER!
oh btw, on leave now, leaving for Starlight on the 22nd
WE ARE BROTHERS IN ARMS, WE ARE BROTHERS FOREVER, WE ARE THE FIRST AND ONLY INFANTRY!
Really meh? i have witness people with many forms of injury asked to go out field and they play the guilt game with these people lor. they are only lucky that nothing happen. for wat? just so that the CO can look good when he ROD. PUI!I would like to hear u say "PAIN IS TEMPORARY, PRIDE IS FOREVER!" when u jump and break that leg of urs and become cripple.
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I think everybody here should take one step back and look at the issue objectively.
If the bloggers case is true, there is NO WAY that the SAF could pressure him to close down his blog. At the very least, the incident itself (him losing his sight) would result in a Board of Inquiry, and you can be very sure that it would be discussed in Parliment. If the SAF, or some part of the SAF, is found to be actively supressing the blog, you can be very sure that many heads will roll.
So then, why did the blogger take down his blog? I think that he posted that story because he was pissed off with someone in the SAF, probably his superiors. Maybe he thought that it would be funny to play a little prank. Once he realised that people were taking his story for real and publicising it, he got worried, and tried to get out of the situation as easily as possible, because he could be criminally liable for making false accusations against the SAF.Now, the fact that so many people chime in with their own stories, some of which may be true, is in fact disturbing, but shows once again, that the SAF, like every other organisation, is made of imperfect people. But I think that there are certain misconceptions-- Calling the SAF Hotline will not get you thrown into DB. Yes, people can argue that it is circumventing the chain of command, but the point is that it is supposed to be used when the chain of command has failed. That being said, if you use the SAF Hotline fraudulently (i.e. you made a false or unjustified complaint), you can expect that there would be repercussions within the chain of command, possibly affecting you. Of course, since we are all garang and honorable soldiers, that would never happen, right? :D
WP_:
"Even private companies have chao keng. There's people who went to see their company doctor to get MC for nothing. There're even people who buy cough syrup from their company doc even though they do not have cough. But why didn't the doctor brand them as chao keng? Cause he's paid at a good rate.
But the MO are just like us who are NSF are paid peanuts and bound by law into serving the nation. But MO should maintain their professionalism because they are only fellow in the whole unit that help soldiers medically. So whether chao keng or not, they shouldn't be reject medical treatment."
I contend that, in this case, the MO is professional and the company doctor is negligent and should be fired! Doctors are supposed to heal, not to harm, and prescribing medicine when the patient is not sick can lead to harm in the patient! Professionalism on the part of the MO also emcompasses making sure that the unit is fit to fight. That is part of his unspoken duty. He is in fact obliged, in spirit if not in law, to make sure that chao keng soldiers are sent where they belong--with their sections, training, just as he is obliged to make sure that real cases are allowed to rest. So, in the case that you mentioned, Kudos to the MO!
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Originally posted by edwin3060:
I think everybody here should take one step back and look at the issue objectively.
If the bloggers case is true, there is NO WAY that the SAF could pressure him to close down his blog. At the very least, the incident itself (him losing his sight) would result in a Board of Inquiry, and you can be very sure that it would be discussed in Parliment. If the SAF, or some part of the SAF, is found to be actively supressing the blog, you can be very sure that many heads will roll.
So then, why did the blogger take down his blog? I think that he posted that story because he was pissed off with someone in the SAF, probably his superiors. Maybe he thought that it would be funny to play a little prank. Once he realised that people were taking his story for real and publicising it, he got worried, and tried to get out of the situation as easily as possible, because he could be criminally liable for making false accusations against the SAF.Now, the fact that so many people chime in with their own stories, some of which may be true, is in fact disturbing, but shows once again, that the SAF, like every other organisation, is made of imperfect people. But I think that there are certain misconceptions-- Calling the SAF Hotline will not get you thrown into DB. Yes, people can argue that it is circumventing the chain of command, but the point is that it is supposed to be used when the chain of command has failed. That being said, if you use the SAF Hotline fraudulently (i.e. you made a false or unjustified complaint), you can expect that there would be repercussions within the chain of command, possibly affecting you. Of course, since we are all garang and honorable soldiers, that would never happen, right? :D
WP_:
"Even private companies have chao keng. There's people who went to see their company doctor to get MC for nothing. There're even people who buy cough syrup from their company doc even though they do not have cough. But why didn't the doctor brand them as chao keng? Cause he's paid at a good rate.
But the MO are just like us who are NSF are paid peanuts and bound by law into serving the nation. But MO should maintain their professionalism because they are only fellow in the whole unit that help soldiers medically. So whether chao keng or not, they shouldn't be reject medical treatment."
I contend that, in this case, the MO is professional and the company doctor is negligent and should be fired! Doctors are supposed to heal, not to harm, and prescribing medicine when the patient is not sick can lead to harm in the patient! Professionalism on the part of the MO also emcompasses making sure that the unit is fit to fight. That is part of his unspoken duty. He is in fact obliged, in spirit if not in law, to make sure that chao keng soldiers are sent where they belong--with their sections, training, just as he is obliged to make sure that real cases are allowed to rest. So, in the case that you mentioned, Kudos to the MO!
Hi edwin, please don't mind I ask. Have you done NS before? I hope I don't sound blunt to you, but you sound like someone who has not done NS or not treaded painful paths before. -
Originally posted by 4GlassWall:
Really meh? i have witness people with many forms of injury asked to go out field and they play the guilt game with these people lor. they are only lucky that nothing happen. for wat? just so that the CO can look good when he ROD. PUI!I would like to hear u say "PAIN IS TEMPORARY, PRIDE IS FOREVER!" when u jump and break that leg of urs and become cripple.
well said .. -
Frankly...IMHO this guy was denied medical treatment etc. due to this fucked up policy and mentality that is very very rampant in SG. Unlike other countries, which is usually innocent until proven guilty, our system here is that of guilty until proven innocent. Which is in some cases, such as this, too little too late. Also, frankly there are many kengsters in the SAF, who spoil the market and thus genuine cases often get swept aside as well. MO side, we have to empathise that they are suppose to help identify the cases so that they are treated accordingly
A little suggestion is that perhaps the MOs should reverse the policy, and treat all cases brought to their attention as genuine. When those kengsters are caught, punish them harshly. That will be a fair system to weed out the genuine from the keng-ing ones. Just my 2 cents, the harsh punishment will serve as a deterrent to those whom wanna keng.
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Originally posted by purpledragon84:
actually ammo storeman(in this blogger's case) carry the ammo box is quite heavy one.. and there are a lot of work in the ammo depot everyday because the ammo boxes are being moved everyday..
Well, I was trying to tell that person whom I am replying to like compare to other combat vocations that does lots of training, storeman's task are lighter even for ammo depot one. And yes, they does a lot carrying around the ammo but not all the time.Only time when they need to do admin, stock takes and also like when there is exercise going on and people are coming to draw ammo and return the expended ammo.
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Originally posted by del_co:
you mean if a person didnt do well enuff to go OCS in bmt...he can still apply to be an officer?Yeah why liddat also can?? means for regulars, as long as they want to be officer, they can go OCS even though they didn't make the cut for OCS in the first place?
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Originally posted by edwin3060:
Sometimes I really sympathise with the MOs. Do you people realise that many of them are just serving their bond like you before they can go into private practice? The fact that many of them actually take pride in their work is a miracle in itself.
You sympathise with that?! i did a double take when i read this. You are actually speaking up for and sympathizing with the attitude of "just serving bond and passing time before one goes into private practice"?!
Is that the attitude that taxpayers are paying for? Did those sign-on MOs not get their local medical education sponsored? BY TAXPAYER'S MONEY?!?!? Hello there is no such thing as a free lunch in this world ok? A person who has actually qualified and gone through OCS should rightfully behave and think like an officer who genuinely wants to lead people and better the organisation/country.
A person who has qualified for and passed the medicine course interview should rightfully be someone who has a compassion for people, who wants to save lives and minimise pain, and who has the greater good of the world as one of his objectives. And not "JUST WAITING to go to PRIVATE PRACTICE!"
So what if the Local Medicine Award is one of the least respected and crappier awards given out and kena bastardized by the local medicine fraternity (basically military doctors are seen as ppl who wasted the most important years of their careers treating keng cases)? Did these people not project a certain impression to the SAF when they applied and PRETENDED they genuinely want to serve?!?! Did they not get a free medicine education PAID FOR BY THE GOVERNMENT?!?! How would you like it or react if the real elite scholars like SAFOS and president's scholars ever say such things? "Just hanging around and waiting to go private practice?!" WTF!!
I dunno what's worse.
Having military doctors with such blatant fucked up attitudes (and that they actually passed the bloody interviews, granted few people want that award and there are more offered than takers LOL) or having people who actually sanction and approve of such attitudes and even sympathize such scums of society, perpetuating their existence.
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usually, the military just needs to fulfil its quota. sometimes, anything also will do. they juz want the numbers.
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Originally posted by MS:
Hi edwin, please don't mind I ask. Have you done NS before? I hope I don't sound blunt to you, but you sound like someone who has not done NS or not treaded painful paths before.... Yes I have done NS before. I have also got my fair share of extras, punishments and so on. I still think that the emotional, knee-jerk reaction that most people have to this unverified story is, at best, misguided, when it is clear that given that it is a conscript force, the SAF cannot cover up any such incidents or it will lose the public trust.
I say again: This story has been publicised and STOMPed, and immediately after that the blogger removes his blog? Why would he do that unless his story was untrue? If his story is true, you can be sure some MP will raise the issue in Parliment and then you will see some heads roll.
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
You sympathise with that?! i did a double take when i read this. You are actually speaking up for and sympathizing with the attitude of "just serving bond and passing time before one goes into private practice"?!
Is that the attitude that taxpayers are paying for? Did those sign-on MOs not get their local medical education sponsored? BY TAXPAYER'S MONEY?!?!? Hello there is no such thing as a free lunch in this world ok? A person who has actually qualified and gone through OCS should rightfully behave and think like an officer who genuinely wants to lead people and better the organisation/country.
A person who has qualified for and passed the medicine course interview should rightfully be someone who has a compassion for people, who wants to save lives and minimise pain, and who has the greater good of the world as one of his objectives. And not "JUST WAITING to go to PRIVATE PRACTICE!"
So what if the Local Medicine Award is one of the least respected and crappier awards given out and kena bastardized by the local medicine fraternity (basically military doctors are seen as ppl who wasted the most important years of their careers treating keng cases)? Did these people not project a certain impression to the SAF when they applied and PRETENDED they genuinely want to serve?!?! Did they not get a free medicine education PAID FOR BY THE GOVERNMENT?!?! How would you like it or react if the real elite scholars like SAFOS and president's scholars ever say such things? "Just hanging around and waiting to go private practice?!" WTF!!
I dunno what's worse.
Having military doctors with such blatant fucked up attitudes (and that they actually passed the bloody interviews, granted few people want that award and there are more offered than takers LOL) or having people who actually sanction and approve of such attitudes and even sympathize such scums of society, perpetuating their existence.
You misunderstand--- I did not at anytime support the "just serving bond and passing time before one goes into private practice" attitude. If you read what I typed, I said that, despite the fact that some of these doctors(some of whom are my friends) want to go into private practice and so on, they STILL act professionally and differentiate the chao keng kia from the really sick, when the easier path to take was to just issue out Attend B to any Tom, Dick or Harry who whined. I give kudos to their professionalism, and to their moral courage.
Also, not all MOs are bonded to the military, in fact a very small number of them are. Most of them, even those who are MOs for our Battalions, are guys who are smart enough and have the passion for medicine to decide to study medicine and then do their NS duty before they go out to work. Please, before you start jumping down my throat, get your facts right.