While I was serving my reservist training, I thought of a very interesting question.
Why the hell call working adults back for reservist?
Economically, it doesn't make sense to take workers who are contributing to the economy away from their jobs.
Additionally, SAF would have to pay the equivalent amount in working salary back to the company. The cost of recalling working adults back increases with time because of rising salaries due to time.
Wouldn't it be better to just have NSF soldiers to serve 3 years and be done with reservist training?
Afterall, NSF soldiers are most likely not to be working, there's no need to pay companies make up salary because there're no companies. Also, these NSF soldiers are not really contributing to the economy at that point in time, GDP-speaking, because they are mostly students.
I can no longer remember why in the world PM Lee reduced the service length to 2 years and made it 5 working days. Can someone refresh my mind a bit. It's almost crazy that PM Lee doesn't understand basic economics.
The reservist training is a loyalty reinforcement program aka remind you whos REALLY the boss (Dai Kor) in Singapore.
You protest you get thrown into DB for any little excuse. You got much less human rights and legal protection while in the army.
Which is why I witnessed LCP kanna sai for some idiot officers mistake, kind of like Mat Selamat. Except everything is covered up in the army.
worse is RT. fitness levels r expected 2 take a step back when family, study or work commitments dominate.
If they want to get people to exercise should be at their own pace.
Originally posted by bryanw:worse is RT. fitness levels r expected 2 take a step back when family, study or work commitments dominate.
Totally agree.
I make it a point to exercise whenever I have off days from my work.
But for the working class people, especially for the 8-5 people. I cannot imagine them finding time to exercise and keep fit. There's simply no motivation for them to do so.
Actually you should for your own health. But not at some centralized army camp - they should intro a system working with private gyms logging how many hours etc you spend at the gym. Results may differ - but at the very least you know you are performing at a level you can handle and will gradually improve over time.
Originally posted by Parka:While I was serving my reservist training, I thought of a very interesting question.
Why the hell call working adults back for reservist?
Economically, it doesn't make sense to take workers who are contributing to the economy away from their jobs.
Additionally, SAF would have to pay the equivalent amount in working salary back to the company. The cost of recalling working adults back increases with time because of rising salaries due to time.
Wouldn't it be better to just have NSF soldiers to serve 3 years and be done with reservist training?
Afterall, NSF soldiers are most likely not to be working, there's no need to pay companies make up salary because there're no companies. Also, these NSF soldiers are not really contributing to the economy at that point in time, GDP-speaking, because they are mostly students.
I can no longer remember why in the world PM Lee reduced the service length to 2 years and made it 5 working days. Can someone refresh my mind a bit. It's almost crazy that PM Lee doesn't understand basic economics.
the parliament passed the amendent bill as ah lee's son is enlisting soon at that time (theory)
reality: cut cost... the lodging, cookhouse food, upkeep such as allowance, misc camp bills: e.g. laundry...
n y not? most pple take reservist as a break from work anyway. free tickets: some lucky pple get to go taiwan, aussie, new zealand, thai, brunei, india...
make up pay claim for doing some things from the sometimes mundane stuff at work.
Originally posted by Parka:Totally agree.
I make it a point to exercise whenever I have off days from my work.
But for the working class people, especially for the 8-5 people. I cannot imagine them finding time to exercise and keep fit. There's simply no motivation for them to do so.
i have friends who failed their ippt and asked to go for RT. their employers (especially pte sector) were not very pleased about it.
Originally posted by bryanw:
i have friends who failed their ippt and asked to go for RT. their employers (especially pte sector) were not very pleased about it.
no use blaming leh... all u have to do is just pass n u r not in rt/ipt liao... n somemore the passing gradings r sorted by age group.
leeway is already given for the implementation of the birthday window.
some money to put in ur pocket. just pass also $100. silver, $200. gold, $400.
Ya... we are not paid merceneries... they should hire some...
$400 is nothing to nsmen. but many ppl find a way to beat the system. all this talk about employers showing support for reservist training is rubbish. mostly r the govt sector employers. pte sector employers not so interested visiting camps or training grounds to find out how their employees cope during reservist training.
Originally posted by Parka:While I was serving my reservist training, I thought of a very interesting question.
Why the hell call working adults back for reservist?
Economically, it doesn't make sense to take workers who are contributing to the economy away from their jobs.
Additionally, SAF would have to pay the equivalent amount in working salary back to the company. The cost of recalling working adults back increases with time because of rising salaries due to time.
Wouldn't it be better to just have NSF soldiers to serve 3 years and be done with reservist training?
Afterall, NSF soldiers are most likely not to be working, there's no need to pay companies make up salary because there're no companies. Also, these NSF soldiers are not really contributing to the economy at that point in time, GDP-speaking, because they are mostly students.
I can no longer remember why in the world PM Lee reduced the service length to 2 years and made it 5 working days. Can someone refresh my mind a bit. It's almost crazy that PM Lee doesn't understand basic economics.
erm.... I think u dun have the any idea how the defence system (namely logistics and manpower) works in sg. I dun think you dun even have the slightest idea on what u r talking about, especially in your last second paragraph.
Hopefully you're not in any commander position/appointment in your reservist. If u r, please let me know ur unit. If I'm there, I'll get myself posted out.
u go back for reservist to be more "loyal" to singapore? i don't know. hahah
Oh and do u have to go back for reservist if you are overseas?
Time for SAF to revive IPPT rewards. Incentives not enough. Must gives us NSman an extra income tax rebate of up to S$1000 if we gets a pass.
IPPT is lame, Reservist is lamer, RT is the worst of the lot.
5 days work week is to Ensure that the $$ u earned , you pay the services back to where they came from by going shopping and bringing family out etc.
Can you imagine yourself working till Saturday & watch one movie every weekend on Sunday ? Then don't bother to contribute to housework?
(This definitely helps economy)
Reservist is actually to make sure there is work for the Highly paid Regulars.
Else the $$ is going down the drain and they don't have Lego to build & people to command.
There is one primary goal for the need of NS Reservist.
To build up a mobilisable force for defence when the need comes, for Singapore's defence.
This bulk force, make the quantity number, to deter any aggressor to try attack Singapore. Its diplomatic and psychological.
Be glad when a war really comes, you're a reservist, you're not at the frontline, first.
Serving 3 years of NSF is definite a no-no, as it requires more logistics, admin and other resources to maintain NSF itself. Supply food, electricity and water to NSFs doesn't come cheap. Imagine the sh!tty bills you are paying for your utilities.
I doubt anyone would support a 3-year NSF. Any individual education path will be ruin. Many people are already complaining about the 2-year NSF being a "bad break" from continuing their studies or even working in the society, to catch up with our fellow female citizens. NSFs may be student at that point, but long term, they'll still need to contribute to the economy. And remember, most of the so-called students are "graduates" from different institutions, from polys, unis and ITEs, they are "operational ready" to contribute to our economy.
Even if all your suggestions are taken, it'll takes years to implement, to get use to it as ecomically and socially there are short-term impacts to consider as it'll shake the whole society, especially parents.
RT, IPPTs, are something I dislike too. But I guess, its the only thing to push up the fitness of all able-bodies militia gentlemen, by hook or by crook, when we are all are working like dogs in this dreaded society.
Singapore has a small population, at a national level, men are multitasked somehow ... sadly.
take tat $400... even so at least pass also good
Originally posted by eac:
the parliament passed the amendent bill as ah lee's son is enlisting soon at that time (theory)
reality: cut cost... the lodging, cookhouse food, upkeep such as allowance, misc camp bills: e.g. laundry...
n y not? most pple take reservist as a break from work anyway. free tickets: some lucky pple get to go taiwan, aussie, new zealand, thai, brunei, india...
make up pay claim for doing some things from the sometimes mundane stuff at work.
I don't really buy conspiracy theories like PM Lee's son enlisting that's why the service is now shorter. There's no facts behind.
About the reality of cutting cost. That's what I'm trying to say. The cost of getting working adults back is higher than that of normal NSF soldiers. So why recall back working adults?
About the break from work reason. It's pretty good except for the fact that if people want to take a break, they can just take a break at their own leisure. Forcing people to take a break via reservist isn't really taking a break. E.g. If I want to take a break, I can just simply apply leave.
Originally posted by airgrinder:erm.... I think u dun have the any idea how the defence system (namely logistics and manpower) works in sg. I dun think you dun even have the slightest idea on what u r talking about, especially in your last second paragraph.
Hopefully you're not in any commander position/appointment in your reservist. If u r, please let me know ur unit. If I'm there, I'll get myself posted out.
Your argument has no weight at all.
If you say I don't have any idea, then support your statement with some facts to back yourself up. Explain why I don't have the slightest idea.
Anyway, I'm coming from an economics point of view.
Originally posted by Parka:Totally agree.
I make it a point to exercise whenever I have off days from my work.
But for the working class people, especially for the 8-5 people. I cannot imagine them finding time to exercise and keep fit. There's simply no motivation for them to do so.
go read the past threads in health and fitness corner in hardwarezone forums. There are people who do workouts very very late at night or early early in the morning (and they just fathered a new kid somemore) for the sake of fitness.
If you have the will and motivation, you will have the time. Fitness is a self-responsibility. Be glad that you are actually being paid to take care of your own responsibility here.
Originally posted by eagle:go read the past threads in health and fitness corner in hardwarezone forums. There are people who do workouts very very late at night or early early in the morning (and they just fathered a new kid somemore) for the sake of fitness.
If you have the will and motivation, you will have the time. Fitness is a self-responsibility. Be glad that you are actually being paid to take care of your own responsibility here.
I think for those people who put in extra effort to work out, they value fitness more than they value the IPPT monetary incentives.
For me, I passed IPPT.
Monetary incentives is not on my mind. $100 - $400 is nothing. I pass for the sake of fitness and not having to waste time going back for corrective training.
Originally posted by Eiizumi:There is one primary goal for the need of NS Reservist.
To build up a mobilisable force for defence when the need comes, for Singapore's defence.
This bulk force, make the quantity number, to deter any aggressor to try attack Singapore. Its diplomatic and psychological.
Be glad when a war really comes, you're a reservist, you're not at the frontline, first.
Serving 3 years of NSF is definite a no-no, as it requires more logistics, admin and other resources to maintain NSF itself. Supply food, electricity and water to NSFs doesn't come cheap. Imagine the sh!tty bills you are paying for your utilities.
I doubt anyone would support a 3-year NSF. Any individual education path will be ruin. Many people are already complaining about the 2-year NSF being a "bad break" from continuing their studies or even working in the society, to catch up with our fellow female citizens. NSFs may be student at that point, but long term, they'll still need to contribute to the economy. And remember, most of the so-called students are "graduates" from different institutions, from polys, unis and ITEs, they are "operational ready" to contribute to our economy.
Even if all your suggestions are taken, it'll takes years to implement, to get use to it as ecomically and socially there are short-term impacts to consider as it'll shake the whole society, especially parents.
RT, IPPTs, are something I dislike too. But I guess, its the only thing to push up the fitness of all able-bodies militia gentlemen, by hook or by crook, when we are all are working like dogs in this dreaded society.
Singapore has a small population, at a national level, men are multitasked somehow ... sadly.
Yup, 3 years is a bit too long.
I would recommend taking away reservist and allocate the time back to NSF training. E.g. 10 years of reservist training probably take 15 weeks total. Why not just add the 15 weeks to the current 2 years and be done with NS?
I'm not too sure but somehow I feel that the cost of keeping a NSF in camp is lower than a reservist in camp. Based on a per day basis.
As to the time at which students enter the workforce... The negative part will be that the individual will have to wait a longer while before he/she can take home a nice salary.
But for the econony, there shouldn't be much difference as there are people entering the workforce everyday. I don't think there's going to be much of an effect on the economy.
Originally posted by Parka:Yup, 3 years is a bit too long.
I would recommend taking away reservist and allocate the time back to NSF training. E.g. 10 years of reservist training probably take 15 weeks total. Why not just add the 15 weeks to the current 2 years and be done with NS?
I'm not too sure but somehow I feel that the cost of keeping a NSF in camp is lower than a reservist in camp. Based on a per day basis.
As to the time at which students enter the workforce... The negative part will be that the individual will have to wait a longer while before he/she can take home a nice salary.
But for the econony, there shouldn't be much difference as there are people entering the workforce everyday. I don't think there's going to be much of an effect on the economy.
the 3 yrs nsf was abolished during the 70s/80s. back then, some nsf officers r doing 3 yrs ns due to lack of manpower cos back then to train up the infancy stage of saf.
n if the red button is pushed, no reservist to stand up n take arms at the reported estimated 300 000 troopers, left regulars n the nsf left only like 50,000 as reported in print.
maximum of 40days per workyr is subjected to call-ups if need.
if u put 3yrs ever again, when i have sons in future,... dun force me to emigrate.
n if u dun buy theories, then another theory political wise is, pap needs new young voters (n their parents) for elections.
Originally posted by eac:
the 3 yrs nsf was abolished during the 70s/80s. back then, some nsf officers r doing 3 yrs ns due to lack of manpower cos back then to train up the infancy stage of saf.
n if the red button is pushed, no reservist to stand up n take arms at the reported estimated 300 000 troopers, left regulars n the nsf left only like 50,000 as reported in print.maximum of 40days per workyr is subjected to call-ups if need.
if u put 3yrs ever again, when i have sons in future,... dun force me to emigrate.
n if u dun buy theories, then another theory political wise is, pap needs new young voters (n their parents) for elections.
Definitely not going to be 3 years, but the 2 years 15 weeks if all the reservist training days are consolidated.
About manpower...Hmm....
I guess that's a very valid argument. It's impossible to substitute man hours with bodies even though by calculation they might match in man hours.