Sign on: Girls/ Female/ Women Regulars, Prospect?
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I'm editing to add that NDU work is overrated here. Ppl think NDU is so siong because NDU is the SAF's version of the US Navy Seal but the local NDU doesn't quite come close to the siong work that US Navy Seals do, so locals just think wah it's like damn siong cos of the analogy.The difficulty of NDU work is less on physical rigors too compared to INF, Guards and Commando. Yup you gotta dive and withstand underwater pressure but it's a different thing altogether from the physical endurance in army combat, which I think the female body is not genetically constructed to handle. Anyway there is only one woman in NDU and who knows what she's doing. There is no woman in INF, Guards and CDO.Also note that there are many women civilian divers who dive recreationally. The number of women recreational divers is almost the same as men, so having one woman in NDU doesn't say much, and it certainly doesn't say they can do INF, Guards and CDO work properly. How many women can do the Gobi trek like MAJ Lien Choong Luen? None?http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/publications/cyberpioneer/lifestyle/2005/nov05_lifestyle.html
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:Anyway there is only one woman in NDU and who knows what she's doing. There is no woman in INF, Guards and CDO.
i oso dunno where ur source r from... pls read page 9 of this pdf file from northeast cdc magazine: http://www.northeastcdc.org.sg/MungoBlobs/546/773/Spring-July-Aug.pdflta fadilah rajak is an infantry officer as stated in that interview.
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You want to prove that this person is still in INF since last year July? I have friends in INF who say there WAS/WERE placements of female in INF for show and currently there is none. I made that quite clear, unless of course my friend does not know the existence of this person, which is unlikely since there are only 6 INF units.
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pls la..there are 5 female guardsmen officers la..2 infantry staff officers...the rest are Arty/Signals/Armour...
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Yup during my GCC, there are a few female officers also taking their conversion course. Those are female officers are either infantry or guards.
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Originally posted by Master -_-:
pls la..there are 5 female guardsmen officers la..2 infantry staff officers...the rest are Arty/Signals/Armour...
not forgetting there r women sergeants around...and when during my nsf time years back, i was doing some stuff for a guards local atec in lim chu kang, one of the evaluating empire team is a woman officer...
n not assume the no. of women at present date.
for regulars, there r something called tour of duty. in civilian, its called job rotation. -
Originally posted by cookiecookie:
You want to prove that this person is still in INF since last year July? I have friends in INF who say there WAS/WERE placements of female in INF for show and currently there is none. I made that quite clear, unless of course my friend does not know the existence of this person, which is unlikely since there are only 6 INF units.
this is just not rite for ur statement. using the past n present...e.g.
LKY and GCT were once PM of Singapore, now is LHL. hence, u can safely said that they DID served as PM before.
similarly, even so the no. r reduced at present, they may have transfered to a staff appt, it may be at the hq bde or hq div, or at mindef hq or the like. or they may have just quit once contract is over.BUT at least in the beginning they still were once in inf/gds, or any other formations...
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http://www.straitstimes.com/Free/Story/STIStory_214449.html
LOL who doesn't know that women do not need to pass the same things as men in the SAF before they are given the same thing?
First, why are these people allowed to only go through a 9 wk BMT?
Second, why is it that for male SMS scholars, they have to go thru BMT, then go through OCS and must go through the Delta company in OCS before they are selected for SMS, but for these women in the news report, they were GIVEN the SMS before even the BMT?! So they do not have to go through the same route?! They don't even have to go to OCS? Wait a min, they don't even have to be selected for OCS, whereas for men, they have to prove themselves in the ENTIRE course of BMT to see if they are good enough for OCS, and then in Delta prove that they are good enough for whatever study award they want? What a big joke this is if special concession has to be made just to have a minimum no. of women in its force to prove a point - prove that it is 'fair' and then it can say "Ok we do have at least X number of women in the force". This serves to emphasise that women are inferior in this area to begin with, not elevate women's capability in this area.
This reminds me of the recent question raised after the new cabinet was sworn in when people quizzed the PM on why there isn't a female full minister in the cabinet. If there is a female good enough, she will be there regardless of her gender. If there isn't, it proves nothing else except that there isn't a woman good enough to be emplaced there."
There is only one thing more tragic than having no woman in any place, and that is to put a woman there only because she is a woman.
Giving women concession in the SAF only reinforces the inferiority of women in performing that said job, if they have to attain it through special concession. The concession puts the feminist movement backward, not ahead.
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Next point is the glaring discrepancy in IPPT standards for men and women.
True enough in the civilian world, men and women have differing standards for IPPT. This can be seen in schools, where all students go through the IPPT test. It makes sense, because the concession for women takes into consideration the weaker build of the female body.
Yet this concession does NOT work in the army, when female officers are given the same standards of gold, silver, bronze and pass as men with lowered, inferior and poorer results, based on the "female IPPT concession." Why doesn't it work in the armed forces?
Simple, because when the woman officer is on the field, as a PC, OC whatever, she is leading a PL and COY on the same terms as the male officer of another PL and COY. What? Is the performance rating changed because the PC is a woman? NO.
Does the OC and CO go like "Since the PC is a woman and she got her IPPT pass on a lowered standard, we should lower the standard assessment for her PL only, compared to the other PLs led by male officers."
On the field, it is a level playing field, and the woman officer is leading a bunch of men, not a bunch of women. So the men she is leading who got the same IPPT result than her actually attained it through a higher and more gruelling standard? Does it make sense?
The IPPT concession for women only makes rightful sense in the civilian world, but not in the armed forces. Precisely because women are genetically built differently, that such a concession exists in the 1st place. Is that not already an insult?
If the female officer is expected to lead a PL on the same terms as her rivals, all the male PCs of other PLs, and they are doing the same mission, assessed by the same standard in the mission, this concession can only do her harm because it brings into the fold women who are actually not as physically enduring as the male officers but got the same standard of physical fitness because of the concession. This concession works only in the civilian world.
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Originally posted by Master -_-:
pls la..there are 5 female guardsmen officers la..2 infantry staff officers...the rest are Arty/Signals/Armour...
Pls lah i said liao, majority of women sign on are in Arti/Signals cos these are the 2 least physically challenging arms and to a lesser extent,armour. Who doesn't know that those who sign on with siong combat arms, after going through OCS and a PC tour after that end up doing staff work for most of her career, or go to BMTC or OCS or CMPB? Pls lor... who's kidding who?
Those 5 female guardsmen officers you say, did they become Coy and Bn commanders? Or soon after commissioning and doing one or at most two command tours to wayang, become BMTC/OCS instructors and staff officers?
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Originally posted by eac:
this is just not rite for ur statement. using the past n present...e.g.
LKY and GCT were once PM of Singapore, now is LHL. hence, u can safely said that they DID served as PM before.
similarly, even so the no. r reduced at present, they may have transfered to a staff appt, it may be at the hq bde or hq div, or at mindef hq or the like. or they may have just quit once contract is over.BUT at least in the beginning they still were once in inf/gds, or any other formations...
"similarly, even so the no. r reduced at present, they may have transfered to a staff appt, it may be at the hq bde or hq div, or at mindef hq or the like. or they may have just quit once contract is over. BUT at least in the beginning they still were once in inf/gds, or any other formations..."
You took the words right out of my mouth lor.
You made my point exactly. Read above about the wayang PC tour before transiting to staff/instructor tours permanently.Not bad what, liddat. Esp if one is not very educated, just rough it out a bit with so much concession for 1 to 2 yrs and then after that desk job in air con room like the women in the private sector, but can get COMBAT pay until 45. You say not good deal or not?
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
"similarly, even so the no. r reduced at present, they may have transfered to a staff appt, it may be at the hq bde or hq div, or at mindef hq or the like. or they may have just quit once contract is over. BUT at least in the beginning they still were once in inf/gds, or any other formations..."
You took the words right out of my mouth lor.
You made my point exactly. Read above about the wayang PC tour before transiting to staff/instructor tours permanently.Not bad what, liddat. Esp if one is not very educated, just rough it out a bit with so much concession for 1 to 2 yrs and then after that desk job in air con room like the women in the private sector, but can get COMBAT pay until 45. You say not good deal or not?
u oso miss the point of view from another person.they at the very least gone thru e 9 weeks combat bmt (whereas service ones go thru 2 weeks type), and later their respective conversion courses, then vocational courses in a combat/combat support role position 1st, b4 job rotated to other appt, or towards staff appt.
if u want to take ippt standards into considerations, then men category also have different passing standards: commandos, guards, infantry (normal combatant standard), service. -
Originally posted by Fatum:
I still remember that signals officer I met at pasir laba 6 years ago ...
she makes felicia chin look like a butch ...
I have an idea who you may be talking abt.
Does she like to apply A LOT of white powder on her face till she looks like a ghost? Her name (an English name) starts with J and ends with Y and she is damn fucking hiao and struts around like she thinks she is a supermodel? Super skinny too with no chest? LOL
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Originally posted by eac:
u oso miss the point of view from another person.they at the very least gone thru e 9 weeks combat bmt (whereas service ones go thru 2 weeks type), and later their respective conversion courses, then vocational courses in a combat/combat support role position 1st, b4 job rotated to other appt, or towards staff appt.
if u want to take ippt standards into considerations, then men category also have different passing standards: commandos, guards, infantry (normal standard)You archelli want to include conversion course?! As I said before, when you make so much concession, it makes the feminine cause (not course, LOL no pun intended) look more pathetic, it doesn't better it.
You said AT LEAST? Is that supposed to level the playing field? What point did I miss? I made my point VERY CLEAR. Is the duration of BMT the same as the male SMS scholars? Heck is the duration of BMT same as tom, dick or harry N level recruit who will NOT sign on?
Comparing the 9-week BMT to say it is very good compared to 2 week BMT for service type, which is also the duration for WOMEN does not counter what I said. It only reinforces how inferior they are.
So you can't refute that they wayang for a bit, for one to at most two command tours under special concession and then transit to full time staff tours? Thanks I made my point and it seems that you made mine too.
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Originally posted by eac:
if u want to take ippt standards into considerations, then men category also have different passing standards: commandos, guards, infantry (normal standard)Wow I was in INF for 2 years and I never knew that IPPT was different for CDO, GDS and INF. Are you sure? I will check with my friends who are regulars to verify this. Also, I have a burning question. If women already have special IPPT concession due to their gender, and allegedly there's different standards for 3 arms, does it mean that a woman in CDO, a woman in GDS and a woman in INF got another 3 different standards? So in total got 6 standards for men and women in 3 arms?? That's news to me.
Also, do you mean the different standards for only passing, or for bronze, silver and gold for the 3 combat arms? Very weird leh..
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Let me extract a paragraph from the news report to highlight the mockery and big joke of the women.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Free/Story/STIStory_214449.html
"They have been offered SAF merit scholarships, and are undergoing a nine-week basic military training programme alongside males undergoing NS. If they like what they see, they can take up the scholarship."
I will break the mockery down step by step.
1) They were OFFERED the SMS before they even began their shortened BMT. For men, they have to go through BMT, whether they are N level recruits or aspiring elite SAFOS scholars, work hard to get into OCS, scholar material are transferred to Delta Coy to be tortured and tekan like mad till you lose your mind, before they can be assessed whether they are good enough for SAFOS, just good enough for SMS or good enough for nothing.
2) Their BMT is truncated to 9 weeks, less than a usual N level NSF, yet it is drummed up as though they split the atom.
3) If THEY LIKE THEIR BMT EXPERIENCE, they can take up the scholarship which HAS ALREADY been OFFERED to them. Wah like holiday camp ah? Take up this provisional package with us. If you enjoy yourself, it's already yours to have. It's already in your bag, even before you prove your worth.
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
Wow I was in INF for 2 years and I never knew that IPPT was different for CDO, GRD and INF. Are you sure? I will check with my friends who are regulars to verify this. Also, I have a burning question. If women already have special IPPT concession due to their gender, and allegedly there's different standards for 3 arms, does it mean that a woman in CDO, a woman in GRD and a woman in INF got another 3 different standards? So in total got 6 standards for men and women in 3 arms?? That's news to me.
Also, do you mean the different standards for only passing, or for bronze, silver and gold for the 3 combat arms? Very weird leh..
IPPT Standards:
http://www.ns.sg/publish/NSPORTAL/public/mindef_services/index/non-ict_ippt_rt/general_information/mindef_services__0.htmlGeneral Info Page:
http://www.ns.sg/nsPortal/appmanager/nsp/default?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=nsPortal_IPPT_GEN -
Originally posted by eac:
praytell how does different standards for the 3 combat arms overturn my point about a woman in the same combat arm as a man, having different standards?
Why do you think there is a higher standard for CDO than INF, and INF than Logistics? Because the physical rigors expected of CDO is higher right? And the physical rigors for INF is higher than Logistics right?
So a woman INF officer is supposed to have LOWERED standards than men in the same arm, when they are doing the same mission? CDO PLs and COYs compete against one another, and INF PLs and COYs compete against one another. So if you were an INF OC or CO, you will have the same 3 to 4 PLs of the same arm, and one led by a woman and the rest by men, so how can the different IPPT standards apply?
So the OC is supposed to say "That PL is led by a woman wayang, we have to lower the standard for the mission of that PL when assessing against the other PLs led by men."??!
The fact that there is different standard expected of CDO and INF already brings home the point that there are different expectations of the 2 arms, because both arms perform different function in the army. So how can there be different
expectations for a PL led by a woman and the rest led by men in the same COY? The PLs are not serving the same function in the army? -
Originally posted by LoVeMeLoVeMenOt:
Yup during my GCC, there are a few female officers also taking their conversion course. Those are female officers are either infantry or guards.
You do know that Guards really only do rappelling once during the conversion course,and during day to day missions do not do any rapelling at all anymore? After the one time rappelling done during the conversion course, Guards is exactly the same as INF.
So did those women you came across rappel? Hahahaha!
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they go there look for big cock or prey on the virgin nsf. see them young n cute in army uniform.
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Originally posted by bryanw:
they go there look for big cock or prey on the virgin nsf. see them young n cute in army uniform.
What I can't stand is most of them look like shit man..it's better to play with the camp dog than look at them. They either look/feel like guys or the 'feminine' ones (by Einstein's theory of relativism) in signals/arti/intel think they're supermodels.
There was literally a woman who told me she signed on cos she hopes to marry a SAFOS.. disgusting..Don't know a single SAFOS wife who is a army regular, only got 1 and the guy is well known to be bak chew ta stamp.
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Originally posted by cookiecookie:
What I can't stand is most of them look like shit man..it's better to play with the camp dog than look at them. They either look/feel like guys or the 'feminine' ones (by Einstein's theory of relativism) in signals/arti/intel think they're supermodels.
There was literally a woman who told me she signed on cos she hopes to marry a SAFOS.. disgusting..Don't know a single SAFOS wife who is a army regular, only got 1 and the guy is well known to be bak chew ta stamp.
chill my friend. during my time in NS, i met a variety of female regulars. i know a female 2WO really take care of her men. very nice motherly figure. on the other hand i also met a blur sotong female 3SG really cmi. during guard duty very blur simple drill commands cant give. i also met a female LTA only know how to sarka the senior male officers CPT and above. talk cock only work dont know how 2 do. act garang. -
Originally posted by cookiecookie:
You do know that Guards really only do rappelling once during the conversion course,and during day to day missions do not do any rapelling at all anymore? After the one time rappelling done during the conversion course, Guards is exactly the same as INF.
So did those women you came across rappel? Hahahaha!
During conversion course we do few times from no idea what is rappelling and slowly we learn the basic to the more advance rappelling. GCC also does include 2km costal swim and a 2km combat assault course. Not every battalion mission we will get to do rapelling. Don't ask me why ask the higher HQ. If you think Guards is exactly the same as INF than I think the INF have to go through all those shit above.
Yup, I was around to watch them rappel down from tower. Somehow those female officers do much better than the male counterparts.
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Originally posted by bryanw:
chill my friend. during my time in NS, i met a variety of female regulars. i know a female 2WO really take care of her men. very nice motherly figure. on the other hand i also met a blur sotong female 3SG really cmi. during guard duty very blur simple drill commands cant give. i also met a female LTA only know how to sarka the senior male officers CPT and above. talk cock only work dont know how 2 do. act garang.I only met the 2nd and 3rd type that you mentioned. And also met some in Mindef HQ who everyday come late to work and quite chi bao deng si.
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Originally posted by LoVeMeLoVeMenOt:
During conversion course we do few times from no idea what is rappelling and slowly we learn the basic to the more advance rappelling. GCC also does include 2km costal swim and a 2km combat assault course. Not every battalion mission we will get to do rapelling. Don't ask me why ask the higher HQ. If you think Guards is exactly the same as INF than I think the INF have to go through all those shit above.
Yes that's what I said. I said that rappelling is only done during the conversion course. Even GDS officers freely admit that to INF officers. Also, I know that the GDS tab includes swim that INF doesn't have. Everything dat differentiates GDS from INF is done during only the conversion course.
Mission wise day to day, GDS and INF operate exactly the same in terms of tactics and the no. of people, this is esp evident during ATEC. GDS is basically INF operationally and the GDS is really a tab, not a separate formation practically, but is one theoritically.