Why NS? [ Pre-Enlist POV ]
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Originally posted by red_amoeba:
I have no issues regarding conscriptions especially if you need to gather enough bodies to form the deterrant force. Perfectly, the security of the country lies in no one else but the citizens. But the big issue is, if the citizens are to be sweating and shedding blood for the security and well being of the country, the citizens must first believe in doing so. Probabaly our fathers and forefathers see this and feel this but my generation and those further down? But look at today environment, we see growing resentment that foreigners coming here to compete on all fronts. We are facing high costs and pressured wages. The need is to make Singaporeans feel Singaporeans - greater emphasis and favoritism be shown to Singaporeans. There need to have concerted effort from all around to do so, just a few of us writing in this forum is not sufficient.that I agree perfectly too ..... but that's a question of politics, which, of course, is up to us to change, really .... but that's another story ...
regardless, we all have to understand that NS is really about us ....
when war comes, we are not really defending the million other foreigners that happens to be here too .... but defending what's ours .... see my analogy above ...
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let me put it in another way ...
you live in a village in ancient china ... periodically, the bandits will come down from the hills and rape and plunder at will .... you see them plundering your farthest neighbour's house and dragging away his wife and daughters ....
do you say, fark it, that's lau lee's house .... that's not mine and I hate him anways, I'm not going to help him defend him and his women's asses ..... and wait for your turn ...
or do you round up the other men in your neighbourhood and have a go at them with sickles and pitchforks ? ....
or you're saying, like the TS, that you'll wait for your turn and let your wife and daughters be dragged away into the barn ? ...
again harmonize if you understand...if the bandits come in,militia is well trained and equipped..got fight to enjoy liao.(again the harsh language n stick thingy)
when the bandits come plunder using ranged attacks..burning u up before u gt the chance to say "huh"? no matter how well trained or well equipped ur militia is,nothing can be done when they are already a part of scorched earth..
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Originally posted by red_amoeba:
why don't you come back and take up arms to protect the country instead of supporting it overseas?
I am trying to be pragmatic. The country is pragmatic in treating its citzens so it ought to be repaid with pragmatism. Its better to contribute money from abroad if Singapore is going to lose. If i stay and be captured, who is going to contribute funds from abroad? =) -
Originally posted by domonkassyu:
let me put it in another way ...
you live in a village in ancient china ... periodically, the bandits will come down from the hills and rape and plunder at will .... you see them plundering your farthest neighbour's house and dragging away his wife and daughters ....
do you say, fark it, that's lau lee's house .... that's not mine and I hate him anways, I'm not going to help him defend him and his women's asses ..... and wait for your turn ...
or do you round up the other men in your neighbourhood and have a go at them with sickles and pitchforks ? ....
or you're saying, like the TS, that you'll wait for your turn and let your wife and daughters be dragged away into the barn ? ...
again harmonize if you understand...if the bandits come in,militia is well trained and equipped..got fight to enjoy liao.(again the harsh language n stick thingy)
when the bandits come plunder using ranged attacks..burning u up before u gt the chance to say "huh"? no matter how well trained or well equipped ur militia is,nothing can be done when they are already a part of scorched earth..
this holds true for any country neh ? ... remember the cold war ? .... with mutually assured destruction on both sides of the fence ... thousands of missiles pointed at each other ... did any party say, fark it, why bother with having an army, it's pointless anyways ? ...
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Untrained doesn't mean the people can't pull a trigger or swing a knife.
If the bandits are lesser in strength than the village is, common sense is everyone beats them up. (Sticks and swear scenario.)
If the bandits are larger in strength and can crush the village, retaliation is possible but still the village will fall. (Missiles.)
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Hi Paradog I will not call u a kid u had the same perception as me before I went in army it hard to describe in word or any form of way you will have to experience it in order to understand. However, I should say this 2 years is damn worth for me, it really train me how to endure every single obstacle in life. They said you might find your best friend in the army which I totally agree I found my best friend from army we been through real shit, training is tough, you will felt no pride at start but respect is earn by other in the army.
I spent 2 years enjoying myself in the army going clubbing ,BBQ and whole lot of stunts i ever did in my life, it hard to believe the last month before i ORD i felt sad that i have to leave this place that I spend for 2 years and once out i have no chance to play so hard and i have to really start to plan. Being very lost before ORD in army 2 years they planned everything for you, all you have to do is to crack your brain on how you can play stunts instead now i have to plan my life, career and other luxury proposition that i working for. I never regret serving my 2 years I learn a lot such as even sitting on a bench to slack has a price to pay and I even treasure this kind of moment was so valuable I never though that time was important it shouldn’t be wasted, although everyone kept saying that SG most likely unable sustain much of a battle but to my perception I will rather try my best to defend my country then allowing those invader to hurt my family and my loved once think of this it really paid off during a battle . For your infor I from a combat unit and ORD for 4 years compare all the bro here many are more old bird and been through more shit than me guess they will agree with me. Every year I get to go back for ICT it a relax for your mind and gathering for old friends for a cup of coffee and talking craps. I really hope you enjoy your 2 years just like me.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
that I agree perfectly too ..... but that's a question of politics, which, of course, is up to us to change, really .... but that's another story ...
regardless, we all have to understand that NS is really about us ....
when war comes, we are not really defending the million other foreigners that happens to be here too .... but defending what's ours .... see my analogy above ...
you are right. We won't be defending the foreigners because they won't be here, they will be long gone. I can assure you this. when trouble first brew, US, Europe and what not will be flying in their C130 into Changi and ferry their nationals back or US aircraft carrier will steam in and pluck their citizens away. By that time comes, whats left are Singaporeans to make a stand against the aggressors. I am also not sure how many leaders will remain to lead us in our war. But I am sure, when peace ensue again, they will all be back like nothing has happened before. We see this prior to our fall during WW2 to the Japanese. But if our troops are of high morale and with the weaponery that we have, the agressor won't even dare to take the first step because we follow the Israel doctrine ~ any sign of trouble, we will attack first. -
Originally posted by Paradogs:
Untrained doesn't mean the people can't pull a trigger or swing a knife.
If the bandits are lesser in strength than the village is, common sense is everyone beats them up. (Sticks and swear scenario.)
If the bandits are larger in strength and can crush the village, retaliation is possible but still the village will fall. (Missiles.)
so you're the sort that'll surrender without a fight neh ? ....
so you'll go " nah, here's my wife, my daughters, my money" ... and stand by one side to watch ? ...
if I were the leader of the bandit band, it'll be your village and your house I'll go for first ... lilly livered villages can be plundered at a much lower cost than those that put up a fight neh ? ...
oh, for sure, if i bring enough men, I'd certainly be able to take any village eventually, resistence regardless ... but why loose men over a village that fights when I can take paradog's neh ? ...
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the thing is its either the whole world have no armies...thus world peace(unattainable now) or defend if you feel its worth defending. some feel its not worth to defend sg cuz f up..den leave..some feel its worth to protect sg cuz serving the mother land( no the land never belonged to my mother, or i wont have those men in white up there,it would be me ^^) den stay and sign on lor..
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Originally posted by Paradogs:
Untrained doesn't mean the people can't pull a trigger or swing a knife.
If the bandits are lesser in strength than the village is, common sense is everyone beats them up. (Sticks and swear scenario.)
If the bandits are larger in strength and can crush the village, retaliation is possible but still the village will fall. (Missiles.)
Fighting is not about pulling a trigger or swining a knife, it has a lot more to do with HOW and WHEN you fight. Tactics and movement on the field, as well as other skills matter a lot more then simply shoot and they have to be organized and learned in the military to become a truly effective fighting force. You have a simplistic understanding of how things will happen.
You once again demostrate your lack of understanding of anything military and war. Which is not surprising given you are more interested in wanting to make your first 100k by whenever, nothing wrong with that, but at least do your homework before you shoot your mouth off.
In terms of military technology and mobilized capacity, the SAF is capable of going toe-to-toe with any projected/potential threat in the region. And of course our potential foes know it that's why.
Unless you can come up with some bizzare situtation like China or the US suddenly decides to annex us, the SAF serves a very REAL need in security and stability in regional politics, and is needed for the survival and viability of Singapore.
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sgtyran pretty right..sg army is well equipped..pretty well trained?? anyway..IF in terms of weps, we are ok..in terms of man on man..we might not be anymore..in terms of having enough land to act as base and survive bombing...unless we occupy JB 1st then we talk..the only prob is land size.. we got not enough land to survive bombing..
and actual war is most prob a fantasy nw..we got more serious forms of war fares now..
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Fighting is not about pulling a trigger or swining a knife, it has a lot more to do with HOW and WHEN you fight. Tactics and movement on the field, as well as other skills matter a lot more then simply shoot and they have to be organized and learned in the military to become a truly effective fighting force. You have a simplistic understanding of how things will happen.
You once again demostrate your lack of understanding of anything military and war. Which is not surprising given you are more interested in wanting to make your first 100k by whenever, nothing wrong with that, but at least do your homework before you shoot your mouth off.
In terms of military technology and mobilized capacity, the SAF is capable of going toe-to-toe with any projected/potential threat in the region. And of course our potential foes know it that's why.
Unless you can come up with some bizzare situtation like China or the US suddenly decides to annex us, the SAF serves a very REAL need in security and stability in regional politics, and is needed for the survival and viability of Singapore.
Why would China or US attacking us be bizzare? Because they haven't got a reason to? That's true to all the other countries, I believe. Ruining us would just ruin themselves.
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Originally posted by Paradogs:
Why would China or US attacking us be bizzare? Because they haven't got a reason to? That's true to all the other countries, I believe. Ruining us would just ruin themselves.
of course ... smart people knows that war is abhorent ....
but then again ... it's the stupid ones that start them ... that's why we haven't seen an end to war ..... and to me, the stupidest of all fools, would be the ones who are complacent enough to presuppose that others are smart enough not to start a war ...
personally, looking at the caliber of domestic politicians to our north, i would judge them to be not very bright, some are outright nutters I think ... that makes them all the more dangerous, neh ? ... a smart dog knows not to bite you ... it's the stupid ones that'll come snarling ...
that's why you'll still need to be ready to protect yours and your women against "bandits", oui ? .....
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haha..maybe true..but they comes with suicide bombers nwadays..hehe
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I can't believe i wasted 2 years of my life going through NS just to protect people like TS, who thinks NS is a waste of time. Without the men in green, who will protect the nation? Without training in NS, do you tink you can shoot a rifle properly to protect your family members, love ones and friends? Hell i though shooting rifle is chicken feet till i actually shoot one and miss lots of shots.
NS is just part and parcel of being a singaporean. If you don't wish to be a singaporean and serve ns, please migrate somewhere else.
PS: I usually just surf through forums and hold back my comments but reading such things makes my blood boil.
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Originally posted by gobbie:
I can't believe i wasted 2 years of my life going through NS just to protect people like TS, who thinks NS is a waste of time. Without the men in green, who will protect the nation? Without training in NS, do you tink you can shoot a rifle properly to protect your family members, love ones and friends? Hell i though shooting rifle is chicken feet till i actually shoot one and miss lots of shots.
NS is just part and parcel of being a singaporean. If you don't wish to be a singaporean and serve ns, please migrate somewhere else.
PS: I usually just surf through forums and hold back my comments but reading such things makes my blood boil.
When someone attack us, do you think you have enough time to go to the camp and pick your rifle before they flatten our ground? Where do you think your rifle skills will be put to use? In the Singapore "forests"?
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Originally posted by Paradogs:
When someone attack us, do you think you have enough time to go to the camp and pick your rifle before they flatten our ground? Where do you think your rifle skills will be put to use? In the Singapore "forests"?
do you have a girlfriend now kid ? ....
does your girlfriend feel safe with you ? ...
do you give her a sense of security ? ....
would you stand up for her if you meet a group of rapist while walking in the park at night ? ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
do you have a girlfriend now kid ? ....
does your girlfriend feel safe with you ? ...
do you give her a sense of security ? ....
would you stand up for her if you meet a group of rapist while walking in the park at night ? ...
I don't have a girlfriend. If the scenario happens and however strong I am, I'll still be taken out after a fight. A short fight where I'll be pounded.
Or I can choose to call the police. Similar to requesting the help of other nations.
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Originally posted by Paradogs:
When someone attack us, do you think you have enough time to go to the camp and pick your rifle before they flatten our ground? Where do you think your rifle skills will be put to use? In the Singapore "forests"?
sigh....I don't even know where to begin with this kidthe short version:
a suprise attack will not be as easy as you think it is
and there are people 24/7 guarding/monitoring our skies, coastal waters, and borders
and there are established mobilisation procedures
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Originally posted by Paradogs:
When someone attack us, do you think you have enough time to go to the camp and pick your rifle before they flatten our ground? Where do you think your rifle skills will be put to use? In the Singapore "forests"?
So in your mind, no matter what happen Singapore is just going to be a flat piece of land when someone starts attacking us? What if Singapore isn't flatten after the missile raid or whatever ways they decide to attack us and somehow you survive? Like many have pointed out to you and let me ask you again, how will you defend yourself, your family and your love ones? Are you gonna just tell them say, this is war we are all going to die anyway so lets just wait for our time? or will you do something else? and i said in my previous post, going to NS is just part and parcel of being a Singaporean. If you are not happy with the way how life works for all males in SG, be my guest and migrate somewhere else. If not just suck up and go through the 2 years, be it you keng yourself through or you push yourself to the limit. -
When someone attack us, do you think you have enough time to go to the camp and pick your rifle before they flatten our ground? Where do you think your rifle skills will be put to use? In the Singapore "forests"?
actually very good point..by then of an attack..if the invader is good..they would cut communications liaoz..now thats a diff story if we have some weps at home..
and protecting country...i think actually its the spf than the saf..which saf personnel fought a war? which spf front liner haven attended a case??
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Originally posted by Paradogs:
I don't have a girlfriend. If the scenario happens and however strong I am, I'll still be taken out after a fight. A short fight where I'll be pounded.
Or I can choose to call the police. Similar to requesting the help of other nations.
........................hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa!!!!! -
So in your mind, no matter what happen Singapore is just going to be a flat piece of land when someone starts attacking us? What if Singapore isn't flatten after the missile raid or whatever ways they decide to attack us and somehow you survive? Like many have pointed out to you and let me ask you again, how will you defend yourself, your family and your love ones? Are you gonna just tell them say, this is war we are all going to die anyway so lets just wait for our time? or will you do something else? and i said in my previous post, going to NS is just part and parcel of being a Singaporean. If you are not happy with the way how life works for all males in SG, be my guest and migrate somewhere else. If not just suck up and go through the 2 years, be it you keng yourself through or you push yourself to the limit.
sell the country out lor..