RIP.
one of the area need to mention is actually how medical review are being conducted.
had an experience where the medics did a ECG on me during an FFI. The first result he didn;t like so he redo it again and it looks "normal" to him and he pass the 2nd result to the doctors.
So this is an example how a case might have problems but ignore.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:one of the area need to mention is actually how medical review are being conducted.
had an experience where the medics did a ECG on me during an FFI. The first result he didn;t like so he redo it again and it looks "normal" to him and he pass the 2nd result to the doctors.
So this is an example how a case might have problems but ignore.
the ECG machines in the SAF is the old generation type... still using the 6 suction cup nodes n 4 limb clips... hospitals nowadays r using the silicon pads ECG machines.
if u move/figet a little/breathe nervously, will produce a false reading with the pre-programmed analysis result.
the old ECG machine got some occasional old machine faults which sometimes produce a false reading. e.g. suctions cups "dirty air", so need to use alcohol swabs to clean the nodes.
Originally posted by eac:Cardiologist says cost of comprehensive heart screenings outweighs benefits
outweigh benefits?
so the lives of our ns men are expendable, while money is not? those guys sacrifice 2 yrs of their lives for the country, live nothing in return, but 20 yrs of bondage and lousy allowance.
and ppl are saying that its not worth it to at least screen their health status?
wad crap is this?
i can imagine:
Patients say cost of paying high fees to doctors outweighing benefits.
Well...as we grow up, and see what the world really is...then we know what we are really wroth in their eyes.
I loved the military so much that as I grew passed that phase, I was glad that I cleared it in one piece. Now the only darn thing is I have ICT at 23rd July, but my Heart Centre appointment is at 25th Aug, I have no idea how to siam doing strenous activities (if there is and as advised by doctors) in my coming ICT. Hope I won't die there. If I stop posting after that period...maybe you see me on the headlines!
"NSmen collasped during In-Camp Training - NSmen LTA(NS) Quek XX collasped while participating an ICT exercise. It's his own fault for not sounding out that he has schedule to a heart specialist..."
Haha...just joking. =)
And about the SGD500 for the threadmill test, all these are crap, the authorities should absorb it. It will be a real joke when your sons are called up for enlistments and you have to pay SGD500 on your own for your sons' medical checkup to serve the nation.
Something's wrong somewhere isn't it?
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/354123/1/.html
Parents considering additional health screenings for pre-enlistees
By Chio Su-Mei, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 14 June 2008 1959 hrs
SINGAPORE: With the recent sudden deaths of two seemingly healthy national servicemen during training, some pre-enlistees are asking if more information on the demands of national service could be made available.
Currently, the public can log on to www.ns.sg for a slice on life as an NSman.
Other information sources available include the recruit handbook, public exhibitions and quarterly visits by polytechnics and junior colleges to the Basic Military Training Centre.
But one pre-enlistee said he and others like him want to know more than just anecdotes about life as an NSman.
Joel Han, a student, said: "I think I need more information about training schedules and what's the routine like."
Parents have expressed confidence in SAF's medical screening process, but like Joel's parents, they are still inclined to get a more comprehensive second opinion.
Patricia Lim, mother of Joel, said: "My boy has actually gone through the pre-enlistment health screening by the army. However, I find that it may not be enough because when I run through the medical items, certain items are not included."
In addition to pre-enlistment health issues, parents are also concerned that their sons might be inclined to lie about the true state of their health during national service due to pressure from their peers or platoon commanders.
They are suggesting that health checklists be given out prior to each training or exercise, so that national servicemen can give a more honest, but less public, self-appraisal.
- CNA/so
Originally posted by eac:http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/354123/1/.html
.....In addition to pre-enlistment health issues, parents are also concerned that their sons might be inclined to lie about the true state of their health during national service due to pressure from their peers or platoon commanders.
They are suggesting that health checklists be given out prior to each training or exercise, so that national servicemen can give a more honest, but less public, self-appraisal.
- CNA/so
ya. there are always alot of enthu kia who want to get pes A/B to enter ocs.
my story :
i was an active athlete in JC, part of the hockey team then.. running 2.4km runs thrice a week & all.
then i went to CMPB for the medical check-up. on the spot, they gave me PES B. not A coz' underweight a bit.
a few weeks l8r, they called me to come down again so i did. something was wrong with my ECG & they wanted me to head down to the national heart centre. gave me a Letter Of Instruction so i need not pay for the checks to be done.
i had an ECG, a 24-hr holter ECG monitor on me & a stress ECG on a treadmill.
then, i was diagnosed with Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome. PES C9L2. the doctor said i was born w/ it & i shud not even run lest i encounter sudden cardiac arrest & death. i was shocked. i loved running, playing sports & suddenly, no more of all this??
the cardiologist in the CNA article, Dr Hsu Li Fern, is my cardiologist.
i went for my catheter ablation in Jan this year. FOC. only paid $10.70 for the entire hospital bill. a clean bill of health i guess!
so.... are the medical tests adequate enough?? i guess it was for me if i could say that it saved my own life from a disease i could just suddenly die from unknowingly?
after we were told of their deaths,all the medics were instructed to practise our 4 man drill
after we were told of their deaths,all the medics were instructed to practise our 4 man drill
the medical checkup + computer test probably takes abt 3 to 4 hours.
If the medics do the full body checkup, x-rays and everything, it might take the whole day.
Can the pre-enlistees wait? Some complained that it is taking too long.
If can't wait, don't complain and ask for more checkups.
DECLARE ALL ILLNESSES. The medics will do the special cases if need be.
ECG procedures, people might move or jerk during the test. This will affect the readings, if you think it's fun to redo, think again. They have to make sure the pre - en is okay before they proceed to do the test again.
Please see beyond the surface, things ain't as easy the way you think it is.
To ensure life is more important or to ensure the efficient for a medic to clear an pre-en is more important?
Commercialised-concept overrule the basic tenant of treasure one's life?
sinicker,
Good for you to have found out earlier. 5 years ago, my company mate wasn't that lucky.
outsource our army la. save the men!
Originally posted by sinicker:my story :
i was an active athlete in JC, part of the hockey team then.. running 2.4km runs thrice a week & all.
then i went to CMPB for the medical check-up. on the spot, they gave me PES B. not A coz' underweight a bit.
a few weeks l8r, they called me to come down again so i did. something was wrong with my ECG & they wanted me to head down to the national heart centre. gave me a Letter Of Instruction so i need not pay for the checks to be done.
i had an ECG, a 24-hr holter ECG monitor on me & a stress ECG on a treadmill.
then, i was diagnosed with Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome. PES C9L2. the doctor said i was born w/ it & i shud not even run lest i encounter sudden cardiac arrest & death. i was shocked. i loved running, playing sports & suddenly, no more of all this??
the cardiologist in the CNA article, Dr Hsu Li Fern, is my cardiologist.
i went for my catheter ablation in Jan this year. FOC. only paid $10.70 for the entire hospital bill. a clean bill of health i guess!
so.... are the medical tests adequate enough?? i guess it was for me if i could say that it saved my own life from a disease i could just suddenly die from unknowingly?
you're lucky... some ppl only get this kind of thing during exercise
In the OCT case I believe he push himself beyond his limit as it's the very end of the course, thus tragedy happened. I think everyone out there should know that different people have different limit level, when you really need a rest do rest.especially when u are in the deep forest of Brunei.
Originally posted by MidnightK:the medical checkup + computer test probably takes abt 3 to 4 hours.
If the medics do the full body checkup, x-rays and everything, it might take the whole day.
Can the pre-enlistees wait? Some complained that it is taking too long.
If can't wait, don't complain and ask for more checkups.
DECLARE ALL ILLNESSES. The medics will do the special cases if need be.
ECG procedures, people might move or jerk during the test. This will affect the readings, if you think it's fun to redo, think again. They have to make sure the pre - en is okay before they proceed to do the test again.
Please see beyond the surface, things ain't as easy the way you think it is.
you can schedule it to 2 days. waiting a few more hours extra is safer than risking cardiac for 20 years. (from entering ns to end of OR)
Originally posted by tarutaru:In the OCT case I believe he push himself beyond his limit as it's the very end of the course, thus tragedy happened. I think everyone out there should know that different people have different limit level, when you really need a rest do rest.especially when u are in the deep forest of Brunei.
Pushing beyond the limits during training will make one stronger.
However, do you think if the OCT will push on if he knew that he would died if he tried too hard? The thing is that, no one knows that, but everyone tries their best during training. And to consider the kind of background he's from before enlistment, it could be easily given the impression that he is a very strong willed fellow.
Anyway the sad fact is that he has no way to realise his dream as a pilot now. However, do hope the authorities will genuinely learn some lessons and improve our training safety.
Originally posted by deathmaster:you can schedule it to 2 days. waiting a few more hours extra is safer than risking cardiac for 20 years. (from entering ns to end of OR)
problem is that will the pre - ens wanna come back again?
some of them don't even turn up for the check ups. not to say 2 day check up.
the mentality of the people nowadays are different.
no respect to the medics and MOs.
more deaths and a mutiny is imminent
Channel NewsAsia - 2 hours 23 minutes ago
SINGAPORE : The Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) has resumed all physical and endurance training activities as of 7pm on Saturday.
This follows the completion of a three—day time out on such activities after the deaths of Officer Cadet Clifton Lam and Recruit Andrew Cheah Wei Siong.
Cheah died after fainting during a two—kilometre walk at Pulau Tekong on Tuesday, while Lam died on Wednesday while undergoing jungle training in Brunei as a pilot trainee.
MINDEF said the SAF has determined that proper procedures are in place, and these are being followed.
It added that the SAF has received a number of suggestions from the public, and these will be evaluated as part of its regular process of ensuring that such activities are carried out safely.
The SAF medical screening protocol is also subjected to regular professional reviews by a panel of top specialists, including cardiologists. And the most recent review conducted last September found the protocol stringent, and in line with good clinical practice.
A coroner’s inquiry will be held into the cause of both deaths.
Separately, the SAF will also convene two panel inquiries into the deaths. — CNA/ms
y is the media advertising PES status as a fitness status?
PES status is a medical status based on the PULHEEMS system
Originally posted by Rockhound:y is the media advertising PES status as a fitness status?
PES status is a medical status based on the PULHEEMS system
yup, even the recruit handbook somewhere IIRC got put that there is a different between physically and medically fit...
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/354283/1/.html
Military funeral for pilot cadet Clifton Lam, hundreds bid farewell
By Imelda Saad, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 15 June 2008 1924 hrs
SINGAPORE : Hundreds of friends and family members bade farewell to Second Lieutenant Clifton Lam Jia Hao as he was given a military funeral on Sunday.
Lam died on Wednesday while undergoing jungle training in Brunei.
It was a send-off befitting the dreams and aspiration of Lam, whose life was cut short so unexpectedly.
Friends said Lam had dreamt of being a pilot since he was 13.
As a symbolic gesture, the Republic of Singapore Air Force awarded Lam his pilot wings - posthumously.
In the send-off at the Mandai Crematorium, his coffin, draped in the national flag, was carried by his brothers-in-arms. And a final volley shattered the peaceful Sunday afternoon in honour of a comrade lost.
Family and friends remember Lam for his caring ways.
Lin Zhi Sheng, a full-time NSman, said, "Every time I got bullied, he would stand up for me. He was a very good friend..." - CNA/ms
Just a side note for those who need to undergo the Jungle training in Brunei:
The Temburong bunks are notorious for being extremely hot like a sauna during the day time. It would be wise not to stay inside the bunk to rest or wait for exercise but hang around outside especially if u hv free time during late mornings or afternoons.
Teo Chee Hean on the deaths of the 2 SAF personnel
Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean says the Singapore Armed Forces is satisfied that all its training procedures are in place and closely adhered to.
This comes after its three-day timeout on all physical and endurance training activities ended at 7pm yesterday.
Such activities were temporarily suspended following the recent sudden deaths of Officer Cadet Clifton Lam and Recruit Andrew Cheah.
Mr Teo says SAF reviewed its training, medical and safety procedures during the time out.
"They've completed that, looked at all the procedures and SAF is satisfied the procedures are in place and they are being followed. This three-day timeout has been very useful because it has allowed review of the procedures to make sure they are all there. And it also heightened awareness among the commanders and the individual soldiers themselves on the issues involved in physical endurance training."
Meanwhile, SAF has formed two inquiry panels to investigate the two deaths.
MINDEF will be working with an independent committee of inquiries chaired by a senior civil servant from another organisation to look into the death of Recruit Cheah - a full time National Serviceman.
Meanwhile, a separate committee from MINDEF will investigate the death of Officer Cadet Lam, a regular serviceman.
Mr Teo says a coroner's inquiry will also be held to investigate the deaths.
"Separately and independently, of course, the coroner's inquiry will proceed and it's held in open court and the coroner will determine the cause of death."
Recruit Cheah died after fainting during a two kilometer walk at Pulau Tekong on Tuesday.
Officer Cadet Lam, on the other hand, died during jungle training in Brunei the following day. -- 938Live