Counselling for NSF Adjustment
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Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:
He has about a year plus more. I'm not sure of his exact vocation though.
Will the SAF counsellors be able to help him?
I don't want to seek the counsellor's help on his behalf in case they think he's lying, I don't want to make matters worse for him.
this compulsory 2 years govt bond is literally means these 2 years of a SG man's life is SOLD to the govt.
u say u n him have plans, it's selfish to think that only the 2 of you people r making plans for the future. as mentioned, other pple no plans? other pple no goals in their lives? other pple no dreams? other pple no want to further studies?
just lan lan suck thumb, do his 2 years and then Serve And Fuck off lah...
for his knee problem, refer to here:
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/315224
just another stronger worded specialist memo lor...
only when he is posted to a permanent unit, then he can take it from here, e.g. go to s1 branch (the unit manpower dept), speak to chief clerk, s1 officer...etc. -
Haha, well I don't think we're going to go to that extent.
He really is getting depressed and its a genuine case.
But I know he has a friend who's married with a kid, and what the camp told the friend was that he got 8-5 and could go home whenever he didnt have any duties, but every single time, he's given so many duties plus trainings etc, he never gets to go back to his family.
What I meant was this whole thing is putting him into depression. Now I'm not saying, oh we have this plan, its unfair, NS must give him 8-5 because of his plans. I'm saying he's going into depression because of all this, so will the army be sympathetic about this and give him 8-5? Not because he has plans, but because he is depressed.
I mean, if the person is really suffering from depression, is it right to tell that person, Too bad for you, just bear with it? If you told that to every person suffering from depression, it would never make them better. It'll only make them sink further in. It will be a permanent mood disorder by then.
And I think he's already spoken to the chief clerk and whoever else that's in charge in the camp (not sure of the ranks etc)
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Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:
Haha, well I don't think we're going to go to that extent.
He really is getting depressed and its a genuine case.
But I know he has a friend who's married with a kid, and what the camp told the friend was that he got 8-5 and could go home whenever he didnt have any duties, but every single time, he's given so many duties plus trainings etc, he never gets to go back to his family.
What I meant was this whole thing is putting him into depression. Now I'm not saying, oh we have this plan, its unfair, NS must give him 8-5 because of his plans. I'm saying he's going into depression because of all this, so will the army be sympathetic about this and give him 8-5? Not because he has plans, but because he is depressed.
And I think he's already spoken to the chief clerk and whoever else that's in charge in the camp (not sure of the ranks etc)
for depression, its purely a medical case.
the best solution is only for him to report sick at the medical centre to find camp MO, then camp doctor will refer him to a SAF psychiatrist, and quarterly reviews + medications. -
Originally posted by Rednano:
for depression, its purely a medical case.
the best solution is only for him to report sick at the medical centre to find camp MO, then camp doctor will refer him to a SAF psychiatrist, and quarterly reviews + medications.And from there, what will his status be etc?
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Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:
And from there, what will his status be etc?
there is no instant grant of this 8-5 currently now considered by all of us as "wishful thinking". this is the 1st step forward for his depression medical problem. MO will give him medications.
and then, go get another memo from the hospital specialist again for his knee n another memo from a hospital psychiatrist...
for use the further studies "excuse", is the s1 branch problem, thus find chief clerk and s1 officer.
for depression n the knee problems, is medical centre problem, thus find MO. -
Thanks for the info. (: I hope it all works out.
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Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:
Haha, well I don't think we're going to go to that extent.
He really is getting depressed and its a genuine case.
But I know he has a friend who's married with a kid, and what the camp told the friend was that he got 8-5 and could go home whenever he didnt have any duties, but every single time, he's given so many duties plus trainings etc, he never gets to go back to his family.
What I meant was this whole thing is putting him into depression. Now I'm not saying, oh we have this plan, its unfair, NS must give him 8-5 because of his plans. I'm saying he's going into depression because of all this, so will the army be sympathetic about this and give him 8-5? Not because he has plans, but because he is depressed.
I mean, if the person is really suffering from depression, is it right to tell that person, Too bad for you, just bear with it? If you told that to every person suffering from depression, it would never make them better. It'll only make them sink further in. It will be a permanent mood disorder by then.
And I think he's already spoken to the chief clerk and whoever else that's in charge in the camp (not sure of the ranks etc)
now then u noe how guys feel so shiok when shouting "ORD loh..." when ORD huh...
u girls should serve NS too... even serve 1 year i oso happy... y? cos only then u will know the organisation... n what us guys suffered -
Originally posted by Rednano:
now then u noe how guys feel so shiok when shouting "ORD loh..." when ORD huh...
u girls should serve NS too... even serve 1 year i oso happy... y? cos only then u will know the organisation... n what us guys sufferedand then they'll reply that they wish we go through period also, no need 1 week, just 3 days will do.
or they reply that they wish we go through childbirth, no need 9 months, 1 month will do. lol.
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Originally posted by Rednano:
now then u noe how guys feel so shiok when shouting "ORD loh..." when ORD huh...
u girls should serve NS too... even serve 1 year i oso happy... y? cos only then u will know the organisation... n what us guys sufferedThank goodness I'm a girl (:
It's just horrible seeing my boyfriend like this, he's never acted like this before and it's worrying me to death.
Another reason why I don't like this country.
@ dumbdumb
Guess each gender has their own problems! But really, I'm guessing childbirth hurts the most! Haha
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Sorry to hear if he is really depressed. Most of us guys get some level of depression during NS - but I understand some guys do worse than others in that kind of environment. The SAF knows that most of us don't want to be there at all, and will generally ignore mild signs of depression. There is not much sympathy from like the army docs also because THEY also don't want to be there, when they could be earning loads more outside. NS is a HUGE roadblock to all of our lives.
However, if your bf is medically depressed enough for the SAF to take notice and grant him some kind of lenient job, it would mean that he pretty much has to be a basket-case level. Like cannot get out of bed, cannot eat, contemplating scary thoughts to just NOT be in-camp. If it doesn't reach this level, and I hope for both your sakes it doesn't, then there will be nothing the SAF will do for him.
I know it's easier said than done, but he could try to get the most from NS. Many of us who served found NS a pretty good time for maturation, for learning about different types of people, facing situations in high stress situations. We find out what type of people can be trusted, what type of people are talk only no action, and what type of people are total bastards. Also, I had some pretty damn fun times out in the field with my army friends (and many more depressing times in the jungles). These are things which can be used beyond NS.
Also, I dunno if your bf knows that you are asking for his help on these forums but it might be best if he doesn't know. If he reads so many people calling him guniang etc it can't be good for his depression lah.
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Everyone had to waste 2 years of their life in NS if they are what we know as... man.
No one can escape this fact. Being in the NS means that you are 24-7 belong to the army and 8 to 5 is not something that everyone gets. Depending on vocation and unit allocation although those with special needs would be awarded on priority, not to mention those white horses.
Do you really think that after everyday of hardwork, sia kang, de gan'ing... your bf would still have the energy to study? Even so, he had to wake up early in the morning like 5plus to make it to camp in time as some camps are that far from city that is unless he live near his camp. Then after whole day of hardship, tahan till 9 plus for night class. Then as you say do his project till after midnight... You think he's super human meh?
My advise is that if your bf want, he can apply for it through his superior. If he did not get it, he had to face it. Use the time to reflect on what path he is going to walk after his NS. There is no use just studying. This is the life of males in SG, they are required to contribute at less 2 years of their life to the nation and many more in the re servist cycle.
In regards to the knee, I guess that he do not had a problem if MO is able to reject his downgrade review.
He can insist that he got a problem but the truth is that he's a chao keng kia.
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Originally posted by First Five-Eights:
Sorry to hear if he is really depressed. Most of us guys get some level of depression during NS - but I understand some guys do worse than others in that kind of environment. The SAF knows that most of us don't want to be there at all, and will generally ignore mild signs of depression. There is not much sympathy from like the army docs also because THEY also don't want to be there, when they could be earning loads more outside. NS is a HUGE roadblock to all of our lives.
However, if your bf is medically depressed enough for the SAF to take notice and grant him some kind of lenient job, it would mean that he pretty much has to be a basket-case level. Like cannot get out of bed, cannot eat, contemplating scary thoughts to just NOT be in-camp. If it doesn't reach this level, and I hope for both your sakes it doesn't, then there will be nothing the SAF will do for him.
I know it's easier said than done, but he could try to get the most from NS. Many of us who served found NS a pretty good time for maturation, for learning about different types of people, facing situations in high stress situations. We find out what type of people can be trusted, what type of people are talk only no action, and what type of people are total bastards. Also, I had some pretty damn fun times out in the field with my army friends (and many more depressing times in the jungles). These are things which can be used beyond NS.
Also, I dunno if your bf knows that you are asking for his help on these forums but it might be best if he doesn't know. If he reads so many people calling him guniang etc it can't be good for his depression lah.
Thanks for your reply. He doesn't know, and of course I won't tell him. Some people were just being selfishly insensitive for calling him that.
I'm glad you understand what I'm trying to say though. I guess I just have to see how bad this is going to affect him, because it really is damaging to his mental health and our relationship.
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
Everyone had to waste 2 years of their life in NS if they are what we know as... man.
No one can escape this fact. Being in the NS means that you are 24-7 belong to the army and 8 to 5 is not something that everyone gets. Depending on vocation and unit allocation although those with special needs would be awarded on priority, not to mention those white horses.
Do you really think that after everyday of hardwork, sia kang, de gan'ing... your bf would still have the energy to study? Even so, he had to wake up early in the morning like 5plus to make it to camp in time as some camps are that far from city that is unless he live near his camp. Then after whole day of hardship, tahan till 9 plus for night class. Then as you say do his project till after midnight... You think he's super human meh?
My advise is that if your bf want, he can apply for it through his superior. If he did not get it, he had to face it. Use the time to reflect on what path he is going to walk after his NS. There is no use just studying. This is the life of males in SG, they are required to contribute at less 2 years of their life to the nation and many more in the re servist cycle.
In regards to the knee, I guess that he do not had a problem if MO is able to reject his downgrade review.
He can insist that he got a problem but the truth is that he's a chao keng kia.
I know the studying part will probably be very tiring, but in some ways, it is better than blowing off another extra tens of thousands and delaying so much time.
And for the umpteenth time, he's not faking. No more cartilage in your knee, would you say its a problem? Imagine if the cartilage is gone, and now the weight is unbalanced, and the bones are constantly rubbing against each other.
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Ask him to call up the SAF counseling hotline and talk. Please, talk, NOT request. It is counseling hotline not SAF miracle hotline.
Or you buay tahan then, ask him to go for help outside, psychiatrist clinic, IMH, etc That is at most what you can do for him.
(But I like to caution you, SAF usually comes down hard on malingering, if your bf tries to fake is no use one. Why? Because the outside doctor will still have to refer to SAF's own psychiatrist. If the SAF psychiatrist knows your bf is faking it then FINISH, ur bf will be charge and send to DB (SAF Jail) and his service term extended and kiss his studies goodbye)
I would suggest that you try to guide him on looking at alternatives (defering his studies after NS, etc, etc). Rather than try to help him keng/solve this pointless problem. I know you feel for ur BF but you and ur bf should have already know that this world is unfair, sometimes the most sh*tty things happen on you for no apprant reasons, just take it as it is and work out the best outcome to come out of the sh*t. It is alot better than doing nothing and just complaining why you are in the sh*t and not somebody else.
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i rmb tat time i got a trooper. jus purely go back camp will result depression dun even feel like coming to camp. even wanted to commit suicide evveryday wan to stay out.
go c those mental doctor and in the end only get posted to elsewhr nt even is it 8 - 5pm.
u go think abt his situatino and ur bf situation c whose depression worse
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Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:
I appreciate some of your answers, because some of you are really giving me advice.
Like I said, I didn't post here to pick a fight, but some of you are really harsh in your words.
As some of you have said, some people may really be subject to extreme stress. And for the record, my boyfriend is not trying to fake his way out, ''chao keng'', nor does he think the army is his dad's, grandfather's, along those lines.. etc.
I'm just saying that because the army is taking and delaying a chunk of his life, (eg: study (forking out another 50k is really a huge sum), and by getting 8-5, at least after he finishes his class, he gets to go home and do his work, research etc, whereas if he goes back to camp, no internet etc, he can't do any of it. Therefore, his grades will suffer). Once he does his course here, he can go overseas and fully complete it. Without this course, he has to go overseas and do a bridging, which costs about 50k, and on top of that, extra fees to finish degree.
As for his knee injury, I think its pretty serious because it has to do with the cartilage. Basically, most of the cartilage in the knee has eroded and torn.
We already had plans to go overseas once he ORDs, if 8-5 doesn't happen, all our plans will just be wasted.
I guess as much as I say this, most of you will still think.. he's acting childish, only want to "chao keng" etc. I know loads of guys have gone through this, survived etc and well done! I'm not saying he's special and deserves special entitlements.
But I can honestly say I've never seen him like this. I did my homework, and how he's acting and behaving, are really signs of depression.
And hey, everyone has their own limits, strengths and weaknesses right? If someone's state of mind suffers because he takes it differently from the majority, do we really have to insult, say hurtful stuff?
All I was asking for was advice. Good advice. Not: "Leave him, he's a girl. Gu niang. Get another bf." I just wanted to know if he really gets into full depression, will the army think he's lying because so far they've been anything but sympathetic. There's nothing I can do except be there for him and support him. All I'm asking for is advice that maybe helpful.
Other than that.. thanks to those who have been nice and understanding so far.
I see you are actually seeking affirmation ... not advice ....
are you as selfish as your boyfriend ? ... can you not see that this is a neccessity which ALL MEN have to go through ? ... We ALL had dreams and plans too .... We ALL had to put our future on hold to serve our NS as well .... I ask again ... what makes him ... or you ... special ? ... because he gets into a "depression" more easily than others ? .... I can sort of see why the two of you are together ....
if you haven't realized it by now, the common thread that runs through most of the replies here, is that NS is an obligation that he CANNOT SHRINK FROM ... it's not something you can pick and choose your liking about, it's not like choosing hotel rooms, or a job !
maybe as a girl, you're not subjected to this NS obligation before, so you think .. Oh, as long as I come up with enough reasons, enough excuses, badger enough people, things will go my way ? .....
why don't you ask your boyfriend to come and take a look at some of the replies here ... ?
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My husband has a bad knee too when he was doing NS
Yes he has a torn cartilage like your BF and I don't see him whining and bitching about it and he sucks it up and goes through the training and all. What is does is wear a knee brace so as not to aggravate the problem
The only why to fix his knee is surgery but he refuses to go for that coz that means he have to be on MC for 2 months and he feels that 2 months MC idling at home will kill him.
Everyone wants a 8 - 5 job where you can study and get on with life but if you can't, no point harping on it and going into depression because you can't get what you want
In any case, if there is a will, there is a way and even without 8 - 5 he will still be able to do it if he really wants to because I have heard of people who have done that
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I can imagine more whining when he finally finishes his 2 years in NS and then realises he still needs to go for reservist training.
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Maybe u can suggest ur bf declare he is mentally insane. High chances he can stay out and work 8 to 5.
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Somehow I guess some of you still don't get the point. I'm not saying we are ''special'' because we have plans so 8-5 is better. I'm not saying everyone else doesn't have similar problems. I'm saying, because he's going into depression, which is why 8-5 would be better. Funny how being concerned for someone can lead to so much bashing. I already said I wasn't looking for trouble.
I'm sure there have been other cases as well that have had a proper look at and also a solution to solve the whole depression problem. Of course, there are people who sink into depression easier than others, thus how depression mood disorder even came about. If not, let's see, no one in the world would be suffering from depression now would they?
Do you think people choose to go into depression? No, they don't. It's biological, psychological, and social factors that cause it. Not everyone has the same situation, not everyone has the same thinking, mentality, and not everyone takes and handles it the same way. Which is why everyone is individually special in their own way.
If everyone is going to bash someone going through depression, why not we just label people with depression as outcasts, since they do not have the same mindset as all we ''normal, non-depressive'' people who are so strong-willed? I'm sure none of us have ever shed a tear before or felt helpless, because gosh, we all know how to suck it up, don't we?
Counsellors and psychiatrists should all just tell their patients to suck it up too and stop feeling like that and deal with it. Why bother? Since the world is like that. Right? Their patients are not special either. Since others can take it, why not them?
You are probably going to repeat the same thing with different variations in your words to say we think we are special, we think that it's not a necessity for special people like us, who are we to say this is unfair.. etc etc etc. So what's the point?
I know that there are cases where guys fake it all the way with depression, schizophrenia and what not to get their way out. And maybe that is why alot of you think this is yet another case. But it's not. If it was, I would not even have bothered seeking advice from people.
For those of you who did understand what I was trying to say, thanks for all your comments and advice (:
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since now the issue is depression, jz ask him to report to camp MO and also call the SAF hotline... then let things take its course...
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Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:
Somehow I guess some of you still don't get the point. I'm not saying we are ''special'' because we have plans so 8-5 is better. I'm not saying everyone else doesn't have similar problems. I'm saying, because he's going into depression, which is why 8-5 would be better. Funny how being concerned for someone can lead to so much bashing. I already said I wasn't looking for trouble.
I'm sure there have been other cases as well that have had a proper look at and also a solution to solve the whole depression problem. Of course, there are people who sink into depression easier than others, thus how depression mood disorder even came about. If not, let's see, no one in the world would be suffering from depression now would they?
Do you think people choose to go into depression? No, they don't. It's biological, psychological, and social factors that cause it. Not everyone has the same situation, not everyone has the same thinking, mentality, and not everyone takes and handles it the same way. Which is why everyone is individually special in their own way.
If everyone is going to bash someone going through depression, why not we just label people with depression as outcasts, since they do not have the same mindset as all we ''normal, non-depressive'' people who are so strong-willed? I'm sure none of us have ever shed a tear before or felt helpless, because gosh, we all know how to suck it up, don't we?
Counsellors and psychiatrists should all just tell their patients to suck it up too and stop feeling like that and deal with it. Why bother? Since the world is like that. Right? Their patients are not special either. Since others can take it, why not them?
You are probably going to repeat the same thing with different variations in your words to say we think we are special, we think that it's not a necessity for special people like us, who are we to say this is unfair.. etc etc etc. So what's the point?
I know that there are cases where guys fake it all the way with depression, schizophrenia and what not to get their way out. And maybe that is why alot of you think this is yet another case. But it's not. If it was, I would not even have bothered seeking advice from people.
For those of you who did understand what I was trying to say, thanks for all your comments and advice (:
you still don't get it do you ? ....
"because we have plans so 8-5 is better. "
here you are, with the real tail still sticking out ... which of us didn't have plans and dreams ? .... if he is depressed over NS, go seek the SAF psychiatrist (who's pretty good at spotting malingerers I hear) ... but if his depression can be magically "cured" if he gets an 8-5 .... what does it really say ? ... *snorts ....
but tis okie, cos you're really seeking affirmation .... and filtering out what you don't like to hear ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
you still don't get it do you ? ....
"because we have plans so 8-5 is better. "
here you are, with the real tail still sticking out ... which of us didn't have plans and dreams ? .... if he is depressed over NS, go seek the SAF psychiatrist (who's pretty good at spotting malingerers I hear) ... but if his depression can be magically "cured" if he gets an 8-5 .... what does it really say ? ... *snorts ....
but tis okie, cos you're really seeking affirmation .... and filtering out what you don't like to hear ....
If I've been filtering out, I wouldn't be attempting to even explain to some of you since you still don't get it. Yes, of course we have plans, just like, all of you who have your own plans and dreams.
If 8-5 is what it takes for him to be able to study, and that might most probably prevent him from sinking further into this mood, isn't that better? And no, it's not magically cured. It's called preventing or getting rid of what caused / sparked it in the first place.
For example, if Person A died, Person B who is a sibling or relative might possibly sink into depression due to sadness and loss. However, if A was brought back to life, obviously B would not be depressed anymore because there would not be a reason to in the first place. Would that be classified as ''magically cured'' too?
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If you think he's getting into a depression, then go brign him to a shrink.
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I know people who are currently going through depression and the amount of stress they are going through is 1,000 x more than not being able to get something as trivial as a 8 - 5 job in NS -_-"
If your bf is getting depression because he can't get what he wants, I fear for what is to happen if his whole world came crashing down.