Why NS ?
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I feel sibeh sorry for this si gina's future platoon mates. esp the poor bastard tagged to be his buddy.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Ooh, no no no no. Read Tajfel - over the past 50-odd years, his work on social identity has been supported by a substantial body of research.
Cynics, by the way, love standing against things because it hides the fact that they don't stand for anything. They're cowards.
And speaking as a practicing psychologist, Maslow's stuff is warm and fuzzy, but ultimately has not proven to be substantial enough for any significant practical purposes. I'd put it in the "outmoded" bin along with Freudian theory.
Maslow's stuff is the really really basic fundamentals to help explain and to put human needs as simply as possible. -
Originally posted by CenturionMBT:
And you are living in a disillusion that every damn person play nice in a war. you think mr osama is going to say i will feed you nice and well after he has captured you? What makes you think that people are going to hold things like the geneva convention true?
These are just guidelines. The strong will always bully the weak and thats human nature. And tell your so called civil occupation to the jews. Let them hear what you have to say about the germans.
Tell the chinese that they should have let the japanese enter china and see what kind of reaction you get.
tell the ethnic chinese in indonesia that their women should have just opened their legs wide and let the locals rape them.
You ever heard of the phrase give a person an inch and he takes a foot?
Rape pillage and destruction are a part and parcel of war. So dun give me that dumb idea of yours.
And what has 12 years of education given to you? Other then being able to write one whole pile of horse shit that is so fundamentally flawed that i can't believe my eyes that i am reading such stuff.
Osama and his brethren are fanatics. To use them in an exmaple when we're discussing fairly reasoned and intelligent individuals is like thinking that the typical bible-belter is representative of all Christians.Try thinking it through. What does a would-be occupier gain from walloping the shit out of our civil infrastructure? What does it gain from keeping the people not-quite mutinous, and imposing martial law? What does it gain from keeping the status quo intact and maintaining order as before? The difference in the productivity of the captured population is quite obvious, I assure you.
Again, the Japanese example is quite flawed. They never signed the Geneva Convention because the concept of treating prisoners humanely was quite alien to them. Once you had surrendered, you were less than scum.
Rape, destruction and pillage are a part of war, but any reasoned commander would weigh the benefits of doing so again against wanton destruction of valuable infrastructure. To put out a silly analogy: If you found a bird that shits gold, would you take it to mistreat it as you will, or would you keep it reasonably happy and well-fed?
EDIT: Added a 'never' in the right place.
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Originally posted by ExtraVehicular:
If they took a cynic's point of view, they might find that it is as irrelevant to their identities as it is to you and me. Identity is what you make of it.
Personally, I think the furore over this is because of the human need to dominate and to avoid domination. Being able to put one up on anyone by fending an attack off is the equivalent of tweaking their nose and 'proving' that you're superior in some way.
However, if you have someone like Gandhi, who steadfastedly refused to play the game, it infuriates the players to no small extent.
Are we not slaves now? Most of us are trapped in an endless cycle of economic bondage that lasts from the cradle to the grave.You cannot eat freedom, or honor. You cannot heal your wounds with them, you cannot breathe it, you cannot fight with it. You've never been truly hungry, have you?
I suggest you check out this link:
now don't try to mix the philosophical and figurative with the real world situation we're talking about ...
you know exactly what we're talking about here.... you're basically attempting to bullshit your way through with frantic googling ...
that doesn't hide the fact that you're a kid who's dug such a deep hole for yourself ...
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Originally posted by elindra:
Maslow's stuff is the really really basic fundamentals to help explain and to put human needs as simply as possible.It's the most rudimentary of frameworks, based upon a set of "should" proposals. That's what makes it impractical. If you want to get any real work done, deal with "is" rather than "should".
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Originally posted by ExtraVehicular:
Osama and his brethren are fanatics. To use them in an exmaple when we're discussing fairly reasoned and intelligent individuals is like thinking that the typical bible-belter is representative of all Christians.Try thinking it through. What does a would-be occupier gain from walloping the shit out of our civil infrastructure? What does it gain from keeping the people not-quite mutinous, and imposing martial law? What does it gain from keeping the status quo intact and maintaining order as before? The difference in the productivity of the captured population is quite obvious, I assure you.
Again, the Japanese example is quite flawed. They signed the Geneva Convention because the concept of treating prisoners humanely was quite alien to them. Once you had surrendered, you were less than scum.
Rape, destruction and pillage are a part of war, but any reasoned commander would weigh the benefits of doing so again against wanton destruction of valuable infrastructure. To put out a silly analogy: If you found a bird that shits gold, would you take it to mistreat it as you will, or would you keep it reasonably happy and well-fed?
If I find a bird that shits gold, I would make it so damn obese it shits more gold.Don't tell me you like being grossly obese.
Reasonably happy??
Wow. I don't regret staying a little later.
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Originally posted by ExtraVehicular:
Osama and his brethren are fanatics. To use them in an exmaple when we're discussing fairly reasoned and intelligent individuals is like thinking that the typical bible-belter is representative of all Christians.Try thinking it through. What does a would-be occupier gain from walloping the shit out of our civil infrastructure? What does it gain from keeping the people not-quite mutinous, and imposing martial law? What does it gain from keeping the status quo intact and maintaining order as before? The difference in the productivity of the captured population is quite obvious, I assure you.
Again, the Japanese example is quite flawed. They signed the Geneva Convention because the concept of treating prisoners humanely was quite alien to them. Once you had surrendered, you were less than scum.
Rape, destruction and pillage are a part of war, but any reasoned commander would weigh the benefits of doing so again against wanton destruction of valuable infrastructure. To put out a silly analogy: If you found a bird that shits gold, would you take it to mistreat it as you will, or would you keep it reasonably happy and well-fed?
Strawman fallacy. Your assumption for the lack of resistance is highly generalised.
There's a reason why people fight for their freedom and liberty, and ironically, you have failed to realise that some of the causes of insurgencies stem from a yearning to be free of whoever that is up there playing the oppressor.
Mind the bird's beak, when you pet it.
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Originally posted by ExtraVehicular:
Try thinking it through. What does a would-be occupier gain from walloping the shit out of our civil infrastructure? What does it gain from keeping the people not-quite mutinous, and imposing martial law? What does it gain from keeping the status quo intact and maintaining order as before? The difference in the productivity of the captured population is quite obvious, I assure you.
Are you talking about occupation or colonisation?
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Originally posted by ExtraVehicular:
Osama and his brethren are fanatics. To use them in an exmaple when we're discussing fairly reasoned and intelligent individuals is like thinking that the typical bible-belter is representative of all Christians.Try thinking it through. What does a would-be occupier gain from walloping the shit out of our civil infrastructure? What does it gain from keeping the people not-quite mutinous, and imposing martial law? What does it gain from keeping the status quo intact and maintaining order as before? The difference in the productivity of the captured population is quite obvious, I assure you.
Again, the Japanese example is quite flawed. They signed the Geneva Convention because the concept of treating prisoners humanely was quite alien to them. Once you had surrendered, you were less than scum.
Rape, destruction and pillage are a part of war, but any reasoned commander would weigh the benefits of doing so again against wanton destruction of valuable infrastructure. To put out a silly analogy: If you found a bird that shits gold, would you take it to mistreat it as you will, or would you keep it reasonably happy and well-fed?
you still don't get it kid .....
you still don't get why "the bird that shits gold", would refuse to eat and drink, and peck and your hand when you reach in ? do you ? ....
I wonder if you truly understand the enormity of what you've said ? ....
wow ... just wow ....
I wonder where did you get your present set of ethics and values from ? ...
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so funny...
for someone who advocates not to fight a dominant party when the fight is hopeless (sekali kenna hantum)...accepting defeat on bended knee is better than getting a bloody nose and losing the fight!
you sure find it hard to accept the dominant party (the government) decision to bend your knee (to do NS) lohhh..
One Question:
If let's say hor, current government don't have NS at all. Then we got occupied by ANOTHER country's government - and THEY impose conscription on us
then will you fight or not ha? Or just lan lan do NS?
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Sorry, did you just try applying the words "sane" and "intelligence" to parn?!
damn. Your comment really brightens up my day... although it is about bedtime. -
Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:
so funny...
for someone who advocates not to fight a dominant party when the fight is hopeless (sekali kenna hantum)...accepting defeat on bended knee is better than getting a bloody nose and losing the fight!
you sure find it hard to accept the dominant party (the government) decision to bend your knee (to do NS) lohhh..
One Question:
If let's say hor, current government don't have NS at all. Then we got occupied by ANOTHER country's government - and THEY impose conscription on us
then will you fight or not ha? Or just lan lan do NS?
ROTFLMAO! Well put, SC!
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Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:
so funny...
for someone who advocates not to fight a dominant party when the fight is hopeless (sekali kenna hantum)...accepting defeat on bended knee is better than getting a bloody nose and losing the fight!
you sure find it hard to accept the dominant party (the government) decision to bend your knee (to do NS) lohhh..
One Question:
If let's say hor, current government don't have NS at all. Then we got occupied by ANOTHER country's government - and THEY impose conscription on us
then will you fight or not ha? Or just lan lan do NS?
Cut him some slack lah, else the poor bugger will spill out more stuff from where he came from. :lol:
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
If I find a bird that shits gold, I would make it so damn obese it shits more gold.Don't tell me you like being grossly obese.
Reasonably happy??
Wow. I don't regret staying a little later.
You know, that just goes to show, doesn't it? You're keeping it at maximum productivity by providing for its needs, and you're even giving it luxury.
Originally posted by LazerLordz:Strawman fallacy. Your assumption for the lack of resistance is highly generalised.
There's a reason why people fight for their freedom and liberty, and ironically, you have failed to realise that some of the causes of insurgencies stem from a yearning to be free of whoever that is up there playing the oppressor.
Mind the bird's beak, when you pet it.
Ironically, you have neglected to see that these people were being oppressed.
It was generalised because we're dealing with the average civilized nation here.
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Originally posted by Spartans:
damn. Your comment really brightens up my
day... although it is about bedtime.Speaking of bedtime, I said I was off to bed 40 minutes ago. I'd better go before I make any more of a liar out of myself!
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Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:
so funny...
for someone who advocates not to fight a dominant party when the fight is hopeless (sekali kenna hantum)...accepting defeat on bended knee is better than getting a bloody nose and losing the fight!
you sure find it hard to accept the dominant party (the government) decision to bend your knee (to do NS) lohhh..
One Question:
If let's say hor, current government don't have NS at all. Then we got occupied by ANOTHER country's government - and THEY impose conscription on us
then will you fight or not ha? Or just lan lan do NS?
All right! Shro-cat is the bestest I say!
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Originally posted by ExtraVehicular:
You know, that just goes to show, doesn't it? You're keeping it at maximum productivity by providing for its needs, and you're even giving it luxury.
Ironically, you have neglected to see that these people were being oppressed.
It was generalised because we're dealing with the average civilized nation here.
I don't get both.
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Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:
so funny...
for someone who advocates not to fight a dominant party when the fight is hopeless (sekali kenna hantum)...accepting defeat on bended knee is better than getting a bloody nose and losing the fight!
you sure find it hard to accept the dominant party (the government) decision to bend your knee (to do NS) lohhh..
One Question:
If let's say hor, current government don't have NS at all. Then we got occupied by ANOTHER country's government - and THEY impose conscription on us
then will you fight or not ha? Or just lan lan do NS?
wah piang, shro .... you da best ...
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And i am telling you, geneva convention is a guide. Not a must. And i have seen so many modern wars and in everyone of them, atrocities happens.
Osama and his bretherens are fanatics. And i can probably name you a hell lot of nations that has the same kind of fanatical national armies. And some of them are not very far away from us. So you try to reason with them. hope i don't see you on youtube with your head cut off.
the oppressors have plenty to gain. One i can control the population by fear. 2 by restricting their rights their movements i can have an iron grip on the population.
And finally, what makes you think the next potential enemy is not going to be some genocidal wanabe?
And even if a commander is a nice reasonable man like you, what makes you think his men are going to follow his orders?
There is no such thing as reasonable in war. If there is reason in a war, the war wouldn't have started. diplomacy would have solved everything. War comes when all forms of reasoning has been exhausted and people become brutal.
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Originally posted by ExtraVehicular:
You know, that just goes to show, doesn't it? You're keeping it at maximum productivity by providing for its needs, and you're even giving it luxury.
Ironically, you have neglected to see that these people were being oppressed.
It was generalised because we're dealing with the average civilized nation here.
The state of being civilised is just a state in time, contingent on multiple environmental factors.
So you're saying that invasion of a civilised nation should ideally end up in capitulation? Please lah, people will kill, stab and bludgeon even for a color television set. If you take the luxuries of a consumerist society away, what makes you think they will kowtow like your ideal idiots would?
Live in the real world, and yes, we know your post count is minimal, but playing keyboard academic won't do you much good. :)
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Originally posted by ExtraVehicular:
Ironically, you have neglected to see that these people were being oppressed.
Occupiers oppress by definition because they take territory by force. Looks like you're the one who doesn't seem to understand who's being oppressed.
It's ironic that while you rail against the Singaporean government for imposing national service on you, you're more than happy to let another government in and kowtow to them.
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Originally posted by CenturionMBT:
And i am telling you, geneva convention is a guide. Not a must. And i have seen so many modern wars and in everyone of them, atrocities happens.
Osama and his bretherens are fanatics. And i can probably name you a hell lot of nations that has the same kind of fanatical national armies. And some of them are not very far away from us. So you try to reason with them. hope i don't see you on youtube with your head cut off.
the oppressors have plenty to gain. One i can control the population by fear. 2 by restricting their rights their movements i can have an iron grip on the population.
And finally, what makes you think the next potential enemy is not going to be some genocidal wanabe?
And even if a commander is a nice reasonable man like you, what makes you think his men are going to follow his orders?
There is no such thing as reasonable in war. If there is reason in a war, the war wouldn't have started. diplomacy would have solved everything. War comes when all forms of reasoning has been exhausted and people become brutal.
Bro, you should have just thrown out any random case of horny, raping and pillaging UN peacekeepers.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Occupiers oppress by definition because they take territory by force. Looks like you're the one who doesn't seem to understand who's being oppressed.
It's ironic that while you rail against the Singaporean government for imposing national service on you, you're more than happy to let another government in and kowtow to them.
and you've said it all ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
and you've said it all ....
Meanwhile, the poor kid still doesn't get it.....
Oh well.... his loss, I say.
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Well, this thread has run its course.
Those who need to sleep, go koon. ;)