Officers: Farmers vs Scholars
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Hey all,
Just want to hear some opinions.
Would it be easier to attain a position (Air Engineering Officer) if I'm applying for Local Study Award or without?
Some also say that if you manage to get a vocation with LSA, you would not go as far. What do you think?
Thanks -
all-time favourite related topic:
http://www.sgforums.com/topics/search?q=Farmers+vs+Scholars&commit=Go&type=topicsFarmers vs. Scholars
As with many militaries, there exists numerous rivalries such as officer/non-officer, combat/logistics divides, Army/Navy/Air Force. Fortunately, because the members of the SAF are thoroughly integrated into society at large, there are no major military/civilian issues.Apart from such minor divisions, a more important dichotomy is observed between officers who are polytechnic or local university graduates (Farmers), and former scholarship holders who studied overseas (Scholars). This phenomenon exists because of fast-tracked careers, quick promotions, a dual-track career in the Civil Service after mandatory retirement offered as enticement for young men to take up SAF scholarships. While this state of affairs has existed since the Singapore government started giving out scholarships, the issue was mentioned in Parliament for the first time in a speech decrying the class-consciousness and social stratification resulting from the existing policies
from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Armed_Forces_ranks -
Theres a previous discussion on this some time back. Do a search.
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Originally posted by kT:
Hey all,
Just want to hear some opinions.
Would it be easier to attain a position (Air Engineering Officer) if I'm applying for Local Study Award or without?
Some also say that if you manage to get a vocation with LSA, you would not go as far. What do you think?
ThanksThere is a new ranking system coming out. If you want to sign on you should wait for a while. That rank is from Rank 1 to 8 or somelike that. In this ranking system, a specialist can go up to officer. If I am not wrong. Could someone please vaildate this?
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Just to clarify.
You mean the RSAF promotes based on what scholarship you took and not based on performance? Let's say, I don't take a scholarship at all, what are the chances then? -
Originally posted by kT:
Just to clarify.
You mean the RSAF promotes based on what scholarship you took and not based on performance? Let's say, I don't take a scholarship at all, what are the chances then?
its based on the scholarship, work performance, how "branded" ur degree is and where its from,...etc. -
Originally posted by kT:
Just to clarify.
You mean the RSAF promotes based on what scholarship you took and not based on performance? Let's say, I don't take a scholarship at all, what are the chances then?u will get stuck as CPT long long.
last time still have AMO, that one stuck LTA long long
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Originally posted by Rednano:
its based on the scholarship, work performance, how "branded" ur degree is and where its from,...etc.NUS is a pretty good school, high in the top 100 list, but LSA awardees from NUS still get stuck at low ranks?
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Originally posted by kT:
NUS is a pretty good school, high in the top 100 list, but LSA awardees from NUS still get stuck at low ranks?
LSA, u go compare it to Princeton, Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, Stanford...etc. where the saf overseas scholarship holders got to study...
the President Scholarship is the 1st in line...
the saf overseas scholarship is the 2nd in line...
the PSC is the 3rd in line...
LSA is machiam like a sponsorship for university study by saf....
the organisation will only give NUS/NTU/SMU some face if only when u get a Masters degree... -
Are there actually a lot of people going for SAF overseas scholarships? Anyone got any figures?
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Originally posted by kT:
Are there actually a lot of people going for SAF overseas scholarships? Anyone got any figures?
go read the publications at www.mindef.gov.sg -
Originally posted by Lokey:
There is a new ranking system coming out. If you want to sign on you should wait for a while. That rank is from Rank 1 to 8 or somelike that. In this ranking system, a specialist can go up to officer. If I am not wrong. Could someone please vaildate this?
This is only for the service vocations.
I can't say anything much more about this because this is still for internal consumption only.
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Originally posted by kT:
NUS is a pretty good school, high in the top 100 list, but LSA awardees from NUS still get stuck at low ranks?
This is a topic flogged to death but there's always some clueless twit who tries to resuscitate it because his head is in his ***.from horses' mouths local graduates got the same CEP as non grads eg dip holders.
err no one cares about the stupid ranking done by a lone stupid ranking board? Go to the states and UK and most people in urban enough cities like Boston, LA or NYC never heard of SIngapore let alone, that university where its farmer students like teraexa hold the little Times ranking of no.33 so close to their hearts and sleep with the newspaper clipping at night. Damn funny sia hahha!!! -
Originally posted by kT:
Are there actually a lot of people going for SAF overseas scholarships? Anyone got any figures?
About 4 to 5 is given out. its only given out to the cream and top brains..but none of them sign on as combat service support (medical, logistics, engineering) so you don't have to worry about them.all of them sign with combat or combat support arms only
your question is very strange, almost like you just crawled out of a rock.. its as if you thought its everyone's dream to be a LSA farmer. you sound detached from reality..you need counselling from teraexa, the bumpkin
the absence of scholars in service support arms like engineering, logistics and medical is a double edged sword. farmers don't have to worry about scholars cos scholars don't go there, it's farmer's world over in service support, like your own paradise, but it's a cycle. Scholars don't go there because service vocations CMI and play second fiddle to combat vocations and arms like pilots, armour, infantry and what not. So yea what you think is a pro is actually a con to begin with.
BUT though people languishing in service support arms got less luminous and more crappy career in SAF, compared to farmers in combat arms they enjoy higher employability and transferrence of skill sets upon retirement from SAF. This is a well known fact, i hope you're smart enough to figure out. Its less regarded in SAF because it's less specialised to SAF, thats why is service support. But it also means more currency in civilian world for farmers. A lot of them apply to and work in SIA engineering, SATS engineering after retirement.
This means for those signing on with service support, it's not a bad deal as farmer. You get to be in your own world while in SAF, though less glamour than combat but it's ok, just mind your business in your world and then unlike the farmers in combat, you have an easier transition post retirement.
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Originally posted by Rednano:
the organisation will only give NUS/NTU/SMU some face if only when u get a Masters degree...
everything else u say is correct but this would be incorrect. local masters is farmer with master's that's all. This is cos SAF completely disregards master's degrees for both scholars and farmers. it doesn't affect or do anything to CEP or starting & subsequent pay. SAF scholars say even if they didn't do their master's they will get the same starting pay as doing it, but they do it cos it's all paid by SAF anyway. if both degrees are completed within 4 years, the post grad will also be borne by SAF. Not doing it just means coming back earlier to start working. All do because of a richer academic experience for the same opportunity cost (not say you come back in 3 yrs with just bachelor's you serve shorter bond).
99% of PSC scholars (which means SAFOS, police rejects SPFOS and OMS) in history do master's before they come back as do statutory board scholars (I know none who didn't). one of them even squeeze a PhD while doing his bachelor's within 4 years and then came back, he became a bit of a mini legend during that time http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,69035,00.html although he sounds nice there, he is really a dick in person. i know 2 SMS who did not do master's (just cos it won't affect or help career or pay), further reinforcing how SMS are farmer-scholars with this kind of mentality......as has been established here..
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Originally posted by Gloater:
everything else u say is correct but this would be incorrect. local masters is farmer with master's that's all. This is cos SAF completely disregards master's degrees for both scholars and farmers. it doesn't affect or do anything to CEP or starting & subsequent pay. SAF scholars say even if they didn't do their master's they will get the same starting pay as doing it, but they do it cos it's all paid by SAF anyway. if both degrees are completed within 4 years, the post grad will also be borne by SAF. Not doing it just means coming back earlier to start working. All do because of a richer academic experience for the same opportunity cost (not say you come back in 3 yrs with just bachelor's you serve shorter bond).
99% of PSC scholars (which means SAFOS, police rejects SPFOS and OMS) in history do master's before they come back as do statutory board scholars (I know none who didn't). one of them even squeeze a PhD while doing his bachelor's within 4 years and then came back, he became a bit of a mini legend during that time http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,69035,00.html although he sounds nice there, he is really a dick in person. i know 2 SMS who did not do master's (just cos it won't affect or help career or pay), further reinforcing how SMS are farmer-scholars with this kind of mentality......as has been established here..
u sure by looking at e profile of e scholars these days?