Att C Status: Wine & Dine Outside ?
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Originally posted by ditzy:
PC can recommend only, up to encik to decide.
PC can give la. If PC no power what officer is he. Only PS cannot give but just recommend.
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extras or sol whatever it is, i dont really give a damn la. like it or not it still will be handed out.
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Originally posted by metalogy:
extras or sol whatever it is, i dont really give a damn la. like it or not it still will be handed out.
If BMT most likely confinement or extra lah......
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I think it is perfectly all right. Your PC could be 1st year officer, not much experience.
Anyway, 20-30mins going out for meals is perfectly ok. Anyway, your MO give you Att C, not your PC. If your MO (3 bar captain) says you require rest at home, and no exercise/ops, then your PC cannot over write, cuz if something happen to you, your PC cannot answer.
However, if you going out for food, and nothing happen you could, then it is ok, unless something happen to you while you are outside, then you yourself will be entirely responsible for it, e.g. getting injured while you are outside home, or faint etc.
If your PC thinks you are malingering, then he himself have to provide evidence, else he will be questioning the MO's recommendation anyway.
Att C "home/bunk" is only a recommendation, i.e. let's say Att C bunk, most probably your section mate will tapao lunch/dinner for you, but what if your CSM ask you to walk to cookhouse to eat and come back?
Att C bunk, let's say .... are you supposed to be 100% time in bunk? So you cannot bathe, shit, urine, wash face, brush teeth, eat?? If going to toilet to shower takes you 20min, then how? Like that means you didnt follow MO's recommendation?
Use this same theory for Att C home, its the same.
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Thought now no ATT C bunk liao...all ATT C is home? There are reason for it....especially in the past.
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Originally posted by tarutaru:
Thought now no ATT C bunk liao...all ATT C is home? There are reason for it....especially in the past.
what reasons? -
Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
what reasons?I remembered there was a case that a serious ATT C (bunk) NSF, high fever, died in camp because the unit went out for exercise and the COS did not know that he came back from exercise because he's sick. I would think that this is not the only case. So after this the HQ state that all ATT C must go home, this is partly because they rather you die at home than in camp, save the trouble for all the investigation an reports......
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i spam bcos im spastic
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Originally posted by nightzip:
I think it is perfectly all right. Your PC could be 1st year officer, not much experience.
Anyway, 20-30mins going out for meals is perfectly ok. Anyway, your MO give you Att C, not your PC. If your MO (3 bar captain) says you require rest at home, and no exercise/ops, then your PC cannot over write, cuz if something happen to you, your PC cannot answer.
However, if you going out for food, and nothing happen you could, then it is ok, unless something happen to you while you are outside, then you yourself will be entirely responsible for it, e.g. getting injured while you are outside home, or faint etc.
If your PC thinks you are malingering, then he himself have to provide evidence, else he will be questioning the MO's recommendation anyway.
Att C "home/bunk" is only a recommendation, i.e. let's say Att C bunk, most probably your section mate will tapao lunch/dinner for you, but what if your CSM ask you to walk to cookhouse to eat and come back?
Att C bunk, let's say .... are you supposed to be 100% time in bunk? So you cannot bathe, shit, urine, wash face, brush teeth, eat?? If going to toilet to shower takes you 20min, then how? Like that means you didnt follow MO's recommendation?
Use this same theory for Att C home, its the same.
When you are out, you are out. There is no way anyone can check whether you really out for dinner or you out somewhere the whole day. They will rarely call just once and charge immediately but call once and normally again short while later and if still no answer then they will have to assume you are out. As long as you are found not at home when called, it can be a chargable offence already since you already broken the 'rules'.
This has nothing to do with MO or PC who bigger or more power. ATT C is strictly stay at home and not supposed to go out at all.
If i was the PC, i won't really accept the reason for going out for dinner with family when the rules is strictly no going out and food can be brought back home and not eaten out.
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worse case scenario, bring parents to camp to appeal against the case lor... just like school time...
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Well, my time. I had this guy who was out on the 2nd day of his att C for dinner too, and he was charged.
I guess it's really dependant on your relationship with your superiors, if you've been difficult, then don't expect too good an ending. But the way your PC made it sound, at most some extras/confinement only.
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Originally posted by dkcx:
When you are out, you are out. There is no way anyone can check whether you really out for dinner or you out somewhere the whole day. They will rarely call just once and charge immediately but call once and normally again short while later and if still no answer then they will have to assume you are out. As long as you are found not at home when called, it can be a chargable offence already since you already broken the 'rules'.
This has nothing to do with MO or PC who bigger or more power. ATT C is strictly stay at home and not supposed to go out at all.
If i was the PC, i won't really accept the reason for going out for dinner with family when the rules is strictly no going out and food can be brought back home and not eaten out.
Yah yah, so if your family NOT cooking then how? And nobody free to go and buy you lunch or dinner leh? Cuz every one needs to go to work or to school, where got people have time to look after you???
Then you bo bian have to go eat meals in coffeeshop then how?
SAF "rules" can be bend one, human beings are alive, rules are dead, as the saying goes.
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SAF wants thinking soldiers, not dead follow rules soldiers.
The usual should be that, PC ask you back for an interview, find out why you at so and so day and so and so time not at home, then you can provide evidence of where you are and what you do, coupled with vouch from siblings, parents, with good evidence, your PC will let you go.
Ofcourse, if you do not have proper excuse to be outside home, then you bobian, your PC after interviewing you, will give you extras, DB, charged, depending on severity.
The bottom line is your PC should give you a chance to explain first, before any how whack with extras or DB etc. The is a civilized country with a civilised army, not some North Korea army loh.
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Originally posted by nightzip:
Yah yah, so if your family NOT cooking then how? And nobody free to go and buy you lunch or dinner leh? Cuz every one needs to go to work or to school, where got people have time to look after you???
Then you bo bian have to go eat meals in coffeeshop then how?
SAF "rules" can be bend one, human beings are alive, rules are dead, as the saying goes.
You never heard of something call takeaway ah? Noone to cook, you go buy back and eat at home. He told his PC he went to eat out with family. That is no longer noone at home or noone free to buy dinner for him liao but he go out with his family by choice.
You don't sound like someone who been through NS since you seem to be imagining alot of things which most people who been through know not to bother. If rules are there yet everyone bends them all the time, we might as well scrap all the rules and let everyone do as they please and happy happy then charge the people you don't like.
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takeaway also need to go downstairs to coffeeshop to buy leh....
Take lift/walk down = 5min
If coffeeshop far, walk there or take bus = 15-20min
Queue, buy food = 5 min
Transport back = 15 min
How long the time already huh? If that's the case, why not eat the food there, instead of bringing it back? Thinking soldier please.
Also, where got somebody if they do not have contact for takeaway, and if you call them deliver, you need at least >$10-$12 meal leh? If the family is poor, who gonna pay for a SINGLE person's meal at $12? SAF ah? Or you leh?
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By the way, I was from Best Combat & Best Infantry Unit, check out my unit somewhat 10 years back. Then, our commanders & senior commanders were so much more thinking/smart/flexible.
Rules are there as a guideline. Yes, it is very important when it concerns safety, but alot depends on communication and experience of PC/OCs on proper metting out of punishment.
My bottomline is just, rules are dead, human beings should be flexibile and wise enough to discern light/heavy sentence etc.
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Originally posted by nightzip:
takeaway also need to go downstairs to coffeeshop to buy leh....
Take life/walk down = 5min
If coffeeshop far, walk there or take bus = 15-20min
Queue, buy food = 5 min
Transport back = 15 min
How long the time already huh? If that's the case, why not eat the food there, instead of bringing it back? Thinking soldier please.
Also, where got somebody if they do not have contact for takeaway, and if you call them deliver, you need at least >$10-$12 meal leh? If the family is poor, who gonna pay for a SINGLE person's meal at $12? SAF ah? Or you leh?
People expect you to takeaway from nearby and not go far away to buy food. Unless you rich enough to stay private estate, there should be coffeeshops etc nearby and do not need you to take that long to go and buy. Of course if you rich enough then delivery is nothing to you.
U're supposed to eat to survive not enjoy yourself and go faraway eat whatever good food you like when you on ATT C.
By eating out you broken the rules. Thinking soldier knows how to think what the rules are and not break them. A thinking solider that thinks how to break the rules and was caught can't blame anyone else for whatever happens.
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Originally posted by nightzip:
By the way, I was from Best Combat & Best Infantry Unit, check out my unit somewhat 10 years back. Then, our commanders & senior commanders were so much more thinking/smart.
Who cares about the past? Unless you want ask your commanders to come back and take over TS's unit if not every NSF has to follow instructions from his own unit and noone else from other units has a right to interfere.
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Originally posted by dkcx:
People expect you to takeaway from nearby and not go far away to buy food. Unless you rich enough to stay private estate, there should be coffeeshops etc nearby and do not need you to take that long to go and buy. Of course if you rich enough then delivery is nothing to you.
U're supposed to eat to survive not enjoy yourself and go faraway eat whatever good food you like when you on ATT C.
By eating out you broken the rules. Thinking soldier knows how to think what the rules are and not break them. A thinking solider that thinks how to break the rules and was caught can't blame anyone else for whatever happens.
This is more like a mentality of a young soldier (somewhat like just pass out officer), because in life, there are more complexities than what books/rules can confine.Just let you know, there are lots of places in HDB heartland areas where there are NO coffeeshops just below your block. lol
You may have to walk 4-5 blocks to the nearest mama shop or coffeeshop, if you are not that savvy on this. I suggest you take a walk down any towns, like AMK, TPY, Tampines, Bedok, etc.
And lol, this is not far away eat, please. That's the nearest place.
And the patient should not be cooking his own meals also right? Even instant noodles, what if he gets injured? Would SAF be responsible, since he is supposed to be Att C, not supposed to be cooking?
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Originally posted by metalogy:
dear all, i would like to know that if im on attend c, am i not supposed to have dinner with my family outside?
scenario was i was out eating when my coyline called and asked where was i. truthfully i told my PC i was eating with my family. i would like to know would i be charged for this and whether do i have a chance to appeal my case since i went out for a reasonable purpose. that is to consume dinner.
Don't think they will go through the trouble to charge you over this. But do note this is serious. If you are on Att C, you are not allow to go out for dinner. If you are fit to go out for dinner, you are fit to go back to camp for dinner at the cookhouse.
Last time Att C home is only given to soldiers who are in a really jialat condition. Usually is hospitalisation case, got discharge, then can get att C home. Else, maximum is only att C bunk. Nowadays MO more lenient with soldiers, but lots of soldiers abuse this privilege.
Some companies (I mean working life, corporate companies) tasked their supervisors to call their staff who are on MC to check where they are. Most supervisors don't call, but there are some who do.
Having said all this, usually your superior, be it PC or ur WO wun bother to check on you. Maybe your coy is really niao, but also, could it be the way you behave when you are in camp that cause them to have a bone to pick with you? (Like want to keng, hide here hide there, etc). I'm not accusing you of anything, but people tend to close one eye with those whom they have a good relationship with, and open all possible eyes with those whom they dun like.
Or perhaps, you really sway, kana a routine check.
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By eating out you broken the rules. Thinking soldier knows how to think what the rules are and not break them. A thinking solider that thinks how to break the rules and was caught can't blame anyone else for whatever happens.
Yah, like young commanders ask you to sit in the sun, you see shades near the trees, do you gong gong follow his orders to sit in the sun to rest, and risk getting heat stroke?
Or do you tell him that that's shade and if the whole platoon can shift to the shade?
This is thinking soldier. Many other examples apply to rules as well.
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Originally posted by nightzip:
This is more like a mentality of a young soldier (somewhat like just pass out officer), because in life, there are more complexities than what books/rules can confine.Just let you know, there are lots of places in HDB heartland areas where there are NO coffeeshops just below your block. lol
You may have to walk 4-5 blocks to the nearest mama shop or coffeeshop, if you are not that savvy on this. I suggest you take a walk down any towns, like AMK, TPY, Tampines, Bedok, etc.
And lol, this is not far away eat, please. That's the nearest place.
And the patient should not be cooking his own meals also right? Even instant noodles, what if he gets injured? Would SAF be responsible, since he is supposed to be Att C, not supposed to be cooking?
You do know that his PC is likely a young officier so what do you expect? If you want you can go sign on and be an officer if you can if not leave SAF to who is inside now.
I used to live in TPY and i know the area well. 4-5 blocks won't take you 30mins to walk. I walk even longer distance than that when i go teach tuition all the time and on the way i walk past 2 coffeeshops. Are you so lazy that 4-5 blocks is a very far to you? How did you stay in infantry i wonder if such a short distance and you are complaining.
ATT C says you are not allowed to leave the house and does not say you are not allowed to cook at home. Want to go read the directives again? ATT C doesn't prevent him from injuries etc, its just to let him rest at home and not spread his illness to others. Choosing to cook is your own decision and is not a matter of whether you ATT C or not.
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Originally posted by nightzip:
Yah, like young commanders ask you to sit in the sun, you see shades near the trees, do you gong gong follow his orders to sit in the sun to rest, and risk getting heat stroke?
Or do you tell him that that's shade and if the whole platoon can shift to the shade?
This is thinking soldier. Many other examples apply to rules as well.
That is different. Whether you takeaway home to eat or you eat at the coffeeshop won't affect your life or cause any injury. Ddon't tell me you will be too hungry. If you hungry you can leave your house and go buy food earlier and noone ask you to wait till you are starving to go buy food.
In your example u did mention TELLING the officer, now TS did it on his own without seeking permission so thats a totally different issue whether you inform and whether you don't
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Originally posted by Rednano:
worse case scenario, bring parents to camp to appeal against the case lor... just like school time...
I fully agreeed on this part esp TS parents should insist to the superiors that they r the one who insisted that TS should go to makan together with them. -
Most probably the PC is reading these liao...