for MDES, they are usually addressed by their prefix titles... like assistant, engineer, doctor, nurse, chief all that.
decommissioned? dont really think so.. cos i heard that new entrants for degree holders have to go through OCS also.. but then their terms may be modified. all these are not concluded for now
and looks like for ME 1 to 3, everyone can be 'on-par' already =p unless there are enciks who can be converted/pushed to ME 4 or even 5.
Originally posted by collinnxk88:for MDES, they are usually addressed by their prefix titles... like assistant, engineer, doctor, nurse, chief all that.
decommissioned? dont really think so.. cos i heard that new entrants for degree holders have to go through OCS also.. but then their terms may be modified. all these are not concluded for now
and looks like for ME 1 to 3, everyone can be 'on-par' already =p unless there are enciks who can be converted/pushed to ME 4 or even 5.
They have to go through OCS but are not emplaced (for new ones) or are removed (existing ones) from the Officer corp? hahahaah.
So what you mean is ME 1 to 3 = specialist, and ME 4 to 5 = WO?
ME1 3sg to 1sg
ME2 ssg and msg
ME3 is WO liao
Originally posted by Xelement:ME1 3sg to 1sg
ME2 ssg and msg
ME3 is WO liao
What's ME4 onwards?
So for MDES, they can 'skip ranks' from ME1 to ME2, they are promoted from 3SG to SSG instantly, and from ME2 to ME3, skip from SSG to WO?
ME4 onwards = officers, and MWO/SWO.
yes can 'skip', but the promotion time can be abit long... though the prefix aka grade [-X, where X can be 1, 2 or 3 depending on the ME level] after the rank will be changed [rise in pay] as time goes by.
more details: http://www.mindef.gov.sg/etc/medialib/imindef_media_library/pdf/careerschemes.Par.0003.File.tmp/MDES_careerBooklet.pdf page 7.
Thanks for the link. I browsed through it.
Am amused that ALL RSN combat vocation will be under MDES from now on. So much so for naval pride and heritage of naval ranks. hahaha.
I also notice that sponsorship for MDES goes up to SMS (MDES) only just like how in the past it used to be SMS (engineering). Once again we can see it's the backwater career path, primarily for service side.
I say its good for those who are seeking a civilian career that's pretending to be a military career but got higher-than-market-rate military pay, something like air traffic controller.
ur friend, poly grad. Can he get into uni? if he can, don't sign on. it is not worth it to sign on as a spec. you earn much more as a degree-holding civilian than in the saf as a spec.
Specs are usually considered as the lower-educated bunch of people in the saf. the pay of a LTA 2 yr into service easily trumps that of a SSG, with at least 6 yrs of service.
and bear in mind that promotion for spec is somewhat slow, there being so many ranks between 3SG and 2WO.
Unless, he can somehow get into OCS, and sign on as officer. the pay is much better.
on another note, if ur friend can't get into uni, signing on as a spec is definitely good, in the sense that its pay is higher than the market rate for diploma holder. and it presents a stable job, for at least 5-10 yrs.
for MDES scheme, it benefits degree holders more. degree holders can sign on immediately as MDES 4, equivalent to CPT, bypassing the need for many years of service. also, it allows graduates who were man or specs in their NS days to attain the equivalent of officers.
as for the rank and files, MDES 1-3 is not worth it. you get to work longer, but there is less welfare benefits compared to the military scheme.
ever considered DXO?
Thanks deathmaster for your detailed and sound advice. He does not know if he can get into uni. He has not tried to apply before.
He can't make it to OCS.
On your point on MDES scheme being a boon to graduates who can be emplaced on MDES4 immediately actually is not really a boon, because graduates who profess their desire to sign on, wil sign on as officers and be made to go OCS. I haven't heard of a graduate who sign on as spec. Last I heard the graduates who apply for MDES were made to go OCS. This is similar to previously when graduates who sign on to be engin officers would also sign on as officers and be made to go through OCS.
Although they should not emplace them on MDES 4 immediately for fairness's sake. Afterall graduates are only given their CPT rank one year after graduation, and not immediately after.
It really depends on your friend's job preference and capabilities. For combat specialists especially, your friend should know what to expect and not sign better of the higher pay. Not sure about other vocations, for inf/guards, you have to endure almost 3 years of sweat. 9 months of training in BMT and SISPEC, followed by 2 years of sect com tour. All my regular friends agree that this is the stage that you hate most and would most likely toy with the idea of breaking your bond. 2 years as sect com is really no joke as you'll taking on sect com responsibilities as well as having shits thrown at you by CSM and RSM. 3 consective years as a low-life combat spec is definitely no joke. The trainings, outfields, fucked around by higher up like you're a NSF, COS and guard duties, low pay.. This is something the career officers doesn't highlight. However, life definitely gets 'better' after that. Promotion, higher pay, more command..
I've seen a couple of regulars in my unit leaving Army because they cannot handle the pressure. So bad that one declared depression and was asked to pay up and fuck off. Of course, this is only what I've observed in my NS.
Originally posted by deathmaster:ur friend, poly grad. Can he get into uni? if he can, don't sign on. it is not worth it to sign on as a spec. you earn much more as a degree-holding civilian than in the saf as a spec.
Specs are usually considered as the lower-educated bunch of people in the saf. the pay of a LTA 2 yr into service easily trumps that of a SSG, with at least 6 yrs of service.
and bear in mind that promotion for spec is somewhat slow, there being so many ranks between 3SG and 2WO.
Unless, he can somehow get into OCS, and sign on as officer. the pay is much better.
on another note, if ur friend can't get into uni, signing on as a spec is definitely good, in the sense that its pay is higher than the market rate for diploma holder. and it presents a stable job, for at least 5-10 yrs.
for MDES scheme, it benefits degree holders more. degree holders can sign on immediately as MDES 4, equivalent to CPT, bypassing the need for many years of service. also, it allows graduates who were man or specs in their NS days to attain the equivalent of officers.
as for the rank and files, MDES 1-3 is not worth it. you get to work longer, but there is less welfare benefits compared to the military scheme.
ever considered DXO?
DXO.... is a no-no.When anyone on the streets thinks of Mindef, who do they think of? what comes to their minds? what do they see in the papers? of course..the uniformed men, the officers mostly, and to a lesser extent sometimes, the WOSE.
DXO is least glorified, the lapdogs of the uniformed officers, analogy to describe them would be the pharmacists in the hospital (compared to the docs), even lower than the MOs in the SAF. Its the grunt work without the glamour.
I remember once speaking to a civilian local doctor who is utterly deluded and told me that SAF sign-on docs sure got the "best" career path in the SAF compared to other officers. For pete's sake, they're medics!! Doc or not, in the SAF, they're medics!They're doing service support functions, like logistics and engineering. And there's actually a dumb twerp who thinks they'll be the kings of the SAF compared to the people who specialise in what SAF is doing - Combat. What a retard. Combat service support is just that.. combat service SUPPORT.. its head should not even get a star. Thats why its only a BG estab and headed by a full COL, who's given a nominal star at the end of his service.
I later learnt why he could be so ignorant..because he wasn't an MO in his NS days, and was a CPL in gayland, music and drama company.
Gosh so many ignoramuses.
Originally posted by outsiderAnecdote:It really depends on your friend's job preference and capabilities. For combat specialists especially, your friend should know what to expect and not sign better of the higher pay. Not sure about other vocations, for inf/guards, you have to endure almost 3 years of sweat. 9 months of training in BMT and SISPEC, followed by 2 years of sect com tour. All my regular friends agree that this is the stage that you hate most and would most likely toy with the idea of breaking your bond. 2 years as sect com is really no joke as you'll taking on sect com responsibilities as well as having shits thrown at you by CSM and RSM. 3 consective years as a low-life combat spec is definitely no joke. The trainings, outfields, fucked around by higher up like you're a NSF, COS and guard duties, low pay.. This is something the career officers doesn't highlight. However, life definitely gets 'better' after that. Promotion, higher pay, more command..
I've seen a couple of regulars in my unit leaving Army because they cannot handle the pressure. So bad that one declared depression and was asked to pay up and fuck off. Of course, this is only what I've observed in my NS.
I think life gets better from CSM onwards. Let's see. But one thing for sure is that the CSM is like the glue that bond the men with the organisation. And it's hard to come by good ones in SAF.
Originally posted by insidestory:Thanks deathmaster for your detailed and sound advice. He does not know if he can get into uni. He has not tried to apply before.
He can't make it to OCS.
On your point on MDES scheme being a boon to graduates who can be emplaced on MDES4 immediately actually is not really a boon, because graduates who profess their desire to sign on, wil sign on as officers and be made to go OCS. I haven't heard of a graduate who sign on as spec. Last I heard the graduates who apply for MDES were made to go OCS. This is similar to previously when graduates who sign on to be engin officers would also sign on as officers and be made to go through OCS.
Although they should not emplace them on MDES 4 immediately for fairness's sake. Afterall graduates are only given their CPT rank one year after graduation, and not immediately after.
hmm, MDES 4 can be considered as a LTA rank also, though grades 2 and 3 may be CPT alr.. though currently, officers cpt and above will will be split into grade 1 and 2? [the new scheme tends to emphasize more on the 'grade' as compared to rank? =/] so as to say, graduates' starting pay will be based on 4-1, then subsequently adjusted with the change in grade. [and experience/performance/time too, to justify the rise]
Originally posted by collinnxk88:hmm, MDES 4 can be considered as a LTA rank also, though grades 2 and 3 may be CPT alr.. though currently, officers cpt and above will will be split into grade 1 and 2? [the new scheme tends to emphasize more on the 'grade' as compared to rank? =/] so as to say, graduates' starting pay will be based on 4-1, then subsequently adjusted with the change in grade. [and experience/performance/time too, to justify the rise]
How can MDES4 be LTA and 2 and 3 be CPT? Also, someone else up there says that MDES 1- 3 are specialists. So much confusion!
Originally posted by insidestory:How can MDES4 be LTA and 2 and 3 be CPT? Also, someone else up there says that MDES 1- 3 are specialists. So much confusion!
Its been mentioned that MDES does not bother about your rank so regardless officers of specs they might be graded depending on their skills since MDES is more on skills expertises and not planning etc that officers are used to doing.
Just a guess though
Originally posted by insidestory:How can MDES4 be LTA and 2 and 3 be CPT? Also, someone else up there says that MDES 1- 3 are specialists. So much confusion!
i think he means ME 4-1 is LTA, then CPT is ard 4-2 or 4-3
specs are under ME1 2 and 3. when they manage to earn a degree relevant to their job scope, they will be converted to 4 and above.
Originally posted by striderz_o405:i think he means ME 4-1 is LTA, then CPT is ard 4-2 or 4-3
specs are under ME1 2 and 3. when they manage to earn a degree relevant to their job scope, they will be converted to 4 and above.
When they get a relevant degree, they get a pay rise. Promotion still depends on performance..
Sign on is good. Sign blah. (navy or air force only)
Another regular (Navy Sailor Spec) friend? of mine had just expired his 10 years contract and decided to continue another 10 years under the new DES scheme. The new scheme did not differ much from his old contract, according to his perspective.
From my point of view, he had some good life on the ship.
Originally posted by Lokey:Sign on is good. Sign blah. (navy or air force only)
Another regular (Navy Sailor Spec) friend? of mine had just expired his 10 years contract and decided to continue another 10 years under the new DES scheme. The new scheme did not differ much from his old contract, according to his perspective.
From my point of view, he had some good life on the ship.
Are you schizo? Did you think we forgot about the thread you started less than a week ago?
Most amazing is how you ORD as a LCP, so we know what kind of background you came from, and you had the gall to talk shit about people who were at least diploma holders and went to command school. What an idiot.
Originally posted by insidestory:Are you schizo? Did you think we forgot about the thread you started less than a week ago?
Most amazing is how you ORD as a LCP, so we know what kind of background you came from, and you had the gall to talk shit about people who were at least diploma holders and went to command school. What an idiot.
If u wan an arguement with him, please do it in pm
Originally posted by insidestory:Are you schizo? Did you think we forgot about the thread you started less than a week ago?
Most amazing is how you ORD as a LCP, so we know what kind of background you came from, and you had the gall to talk shit about people who were at least diploma holders and went to command school. What an idiot.
LOL. please go back my thread and read again, page 1, the 6th post, 5th line on 20 Nov 2009, 11:19 pm. READ.
Errm no need to pretend. I thought at least three people made it clear that we saw that you were attempting to wriggle out of it? No, it did not work.
Moving on..
Anyone knows why all RSN combat will be MDES? that is so weird, so RSN is considered an all service-support service? But its not! So no more RSN officers from Jan on?
Originally posted by Lokey:Sign on is good. Sign blah. (navy or air force only)
Another regular (Navy Sailor Spec) friend? of mine had just expired his 10 years contract and decided to continue another 10 years under the new DES scheme. The new scheme did not differ much from his old contract, according to his perspective.
From my point of view, he had some good life on the ship.
I do agree that signing on with the SAF as a spec is quite good but if the person truly like it. There is a lousy side to it when the serviceman decided to quit the service after the ten year contract end n he might need to start all over again. I talked to a former regular in the air force n he mentioned majority of his frens in the air force have to go back to the same industry as aircraft technician in Singapore airlines cause they have a have a tough time in other industry.
Originally posted by insidestory:Errm no need to pretend. I thought at least three people made it clear that we saw that you were attempting to wriggle out of it? No, it did not work.
Moving on..
Anyone knows why all RSN combat will be MDES? that is so weird, so RSN is considered an all service-support service? But its not! So no more RSN officers from Jan on?
Cannot be bothered by your ignorance.
Anyway, in RSN organization system is different from the army, each ship consists of different department, be it navigation, chef, engineer, captain each department has its corresponding civilian role in marine industry of equivalence. Hence all of them are skilled job in a sense.
I dont know how is your "service-support service" concept come in.
The news state that MDES also want to recuit mid-career people (those wif experience)
For eg, this guy age 35, was a CPL during his NSF days.
he got a 2nd lower class engineering degree from NTU + 8 years of experience as an AirCraft Engineer in private sector.
If he want to sign on Airforce as an air force engineer under MDES, do he still have to go OCS??
What ME grade will he be? ME5 or ME6? or ???
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What is he is 45 age with same criteria, he still need to go OCS??
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What is he(NSF = CPL) is 28age with degree with 3 years of similar exp in private sector, what ME grade will he get? ME4-3 or ME5??
Please advice
Originally posted by Lokey:annot be bothered by your ignorance.
Anyway, in RSN organization system is different from the army, each ship consists of different department, be it navigation, chef, engineer, captain each department has its corresponding civilian role in marine industry of equivalence. Hence all of them are skilled job in a sense.
I dont know how is your "service-support service" concept come in.
The vocations you named on the ship like naval cook (to be renamed chef), engineer, are all service support vocations. The concept of combat, combat support and combat service support is present in ALL three services. For eg, in air force, the WSO (weapon systems officer) or WSS (weapon systems spec) are combat support (btw he also goes inside the plane), while the pilot is a combat vocation. WSO assists the pilot in the frontline, but he plays a supporting role, like how combat support formations like arty or signals support infantry and armour. An aircraft technician or aircraft engineering officer is combat service support.
How can everyone in army, navy or air force be combat?? then who the fuck prepares the logistics and how the fuck can everyone be combat service support then who the fuck would do the fighting with the enemy? The concept is present in all three services. what an idiot.
And how can everyone on a RSN ship be ALL in service support and hence, ALL have a corresponding civilian vocation? (Only service support would have corresponding vocation in the civilian world). In that case, who is the commander of the ship? He's not an officer and not in command of the vessel? And if CO of the ship is in service support and have a civilian counterpart vocation, praytell what would that be?