BMT POP: Driver
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my fren just got his posting. he will be a driver. but he is very unhappy abt it. he feels tat he will not be learning anything tat will be helpful to his future working life other than driving. btw, he dun plan to become driver when he ords. some more he said tat ppl tell him only those uneducated and not smart ppl become drivers. thus it reflects badly on a person when he ords. employer may think tat the guy must be very fuk up to end up as driver. some more a number of ppl in saf will regard driver as redundant since any combat personnel who can drive will be able to drive tonner or rover. no need driver at all. so ppl view them as 'extra' .. tat's y he's reluctant to be driver. wat u all think abt this?
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not true.. i have seen poly and JC kids become drivers. not just one or two, but quite a number. these people have also moved on to uni once ORDing. so who says all drivers are uneducated and not smart?
and combat personnel who can drive are mostly qualified on class 3 vehicles such as Land Rover, Ford Everest, MB290 etc. not that likely they are able to drive your 3/5 ton truck. so there will still be a need for drivers!
seriously it is a good way to get a free license.. and now that they can get class 4 with 3500km of class 4 driving and 3500km of class 3 driving, why not?
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Two of my friends are SAF drivers. One of them actually is a personal driver for the division general and the other is an armour vehicle driver for the armour formation. The man behind the wheel to move the convoy.
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Originally posted by TooFree:
Two of my friends are SAF drivers. One of them actually is a personal driver for the division general and the other is an armour vehicle driver for the armour formation. The man behind the wheel to move the convoy.
div com driver usually sgt correct?
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The only think bad about being driver is that it has one of the highest DB risk amongst the SAF vocations. But still, many smart ppl like those JC or Poly NSF still prefer to be driver if possible because of the free license (Unless you are AFV OPR like me :(). However, it's rare to see PES A/B JC/Poly ppl landed into driver unless they are trained to have double vocation.
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tks to the 2 guys who replied. din expect such quick response. haha. after hearing wat u all say.. just wanna ask u all.. beside driving, wat other skills have ur driver frens learned? be it soft or hard skill?
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Originally posted by ALIASA:
tks to the 2 guys who replied. din expect such quick response. haha. after hearing wat u all say.. just wanna ask u all.. beside driving, wat other skills have ur driver frens learned? be it soft or hard skill?
A lot of Pes A JC/poly enlistees don't mind being driver because they prefer that to chiong sua. These are the same people who are Pes A and quite well educated and would love to be a clerk. But what they love is not the same as how SAF selects. SAF doesn't care what the enlistees love. They only care what each enlistee is best suited to do what, in order to achieve its organisational objectives. Your friend is correct that statistically those posted to be drivers are less educated and deemed as less smart or competent. Of course this is statistics, generally speaking, so there are outliers.
Another thing drivers can pick up is social skills, chatting with the general. Dangerous thing is anything happens when you drive, even if no one is hurt, DB for you.
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Actually, physically fit drivers, i.e PES A and B, are liable to fight alongside the combat unit. They will camo on, carry fieldpack and rifle and dig shellscrape.
Being a driver is not so bad, unless your friend wants to be a rifleman!
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Originally posted by CKeer:
Actually, physically fit drivers, i.e PES A and B, are liable to fight alongside the combat unit. They will camo on, carry fieldpack and rifle and dig shellscrape.
Being a driver is not so bad, unless your friend wants to be a rifleman!
Ya lor, I m a PES B AFV OPR, still need to learn and drive Primus when I m suppose to drive Bronco
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i am a saf military driver. i am pes B , and i got a pte diploma qualification , and at my mt line , there are JC and poly ppl being a driver. so dun think that all drivers are not smart and uneducated. all drivers are being sent for MSET course , learning maintenance of a vehicle and after the advanced mset course we will get a ITE certification. That is what we can learn , servicing of a vehicle. Can you do that? next time your civillian vehicle broke down , you know what to do? yes of course u know , call for towing service. tts all you know. but what we drivers know what to do with our vehicle. At least we can know what minor fault our vehicle encounter. For example run out of coolant? you can just top up plain water into the tank and your vehicle can start already. Instead of calling the towing service.
And talking about DB rate. Yes its high , but its all depend on how you drive. And not every unit , will sent you to DB for minor cases. Sometimes it all depends on the unit.
Combat personnel are only qualified to drive class 3 vehicles. There are also vocation call combat drivers. They drive with LBV , rifle helmet on. They are also combatant. So pls stop looking down on drivers. And may i ask what is your friend qualification? that he thinks he deserve a more "EDUCATED" vocation? My brother was from poly and he was also posted to be a rifleman last time. And there are also low educated and so call paikia ppl inside. And he didnt even complaint. So what right does your friend have to complaint? being a driver also no need to chiong sua like combatant does. And he will have a free license and basic maintenance ITE cert at the end of his service. So whats there to lose? other vocation ppl ord with nothing , but your friend ord with a class 3/4 license. Pls tell your friend to wake up his idea and move on.
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dun be so crap
without drivers, nothing can be done in army
drivers are very respected
esp during ICT
without them , how to move those stores around
so dun be a dumb ass
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after reading all these posts,i got a point to make. nobody can deny the importance of logistical support to the successful operation of the armed forces, be it during peacetime or wartime.
Frankly speaking, if u have a chance to interact with NSmen driver, u will actually realise that quite a number of them don't go too far in their civilian careers. most of them work at the ground level and u find few of them in managerial position. it sorts of gives the impression that they generally lack leadership or some other skills that are essential for success. maybe tat's the reason why they became driver in first place? however, after saying all this, i must say that there's exceptions to everything. I have met a few successful NSmen driver who are earning big money outside, but they are only a minority.
Maybe some one who works in the NSHRC or G8 branch can enlighten us on this issue? Is there any correlationship btw a person vocation in army and his future career prospect?
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Originally posted by ALIASA:
My friend's an idiotBeing a driver, you get to learn how to drive, how to maintain vehicles, how to handle stressful road situations and many more. Your friend is saying those skills are LESS useful then learning how to fire a GPMG as an infantryman or how to flip a rifle in the air as a MP soldier in the working life???
Low educated? Then I must be dreaming about having a conversation with a dude at my MT line who already has a place in NUS after his ORD...
Employer must think I am f-up because I was a SAF driver? Yeah, NOBODY wants to hire or even touch a dude who has a class 3 and 4 licence...
We are redundant? Please ask his OC or CSM why training cannot start if the driver hasn't arrive yet?
Of course combatants can drive too. No need drivers right? Just get that PTE Guardsman to drive his platoon mates from Murai training facility back to Bedok camp, after a hard day of urban ops training. He will understand.And we are definitely "extra". To the point when I am attached to a company, the OC and CSM treats me with welfare, talks to me nicely and I can even eat lunch with them. Must be because I am too useless to them..
Anyway, if your friend doesn't want to be a driver, he should aim to sound off when he is posted to one of the transport HQ. Should he failed to be revocate, just keep failing driving course. Eventually he will be posted out and lead a fulfilling NS life in some store room counting stores or in a office answering phone calls.
Hope he gets posted out. SAF don't need drivers like this. Probably be unmotivated to drive, peng MC and his future MT line buddies has to suffer. For every 1 guy who doesn't want to be a driver, 10 are happy to replace him. -
Originally posted by hoto:
after reading all these posts,i got a point to make. nobody can deny the importance of logistical support to the successful operation of the armed forces, be it during peacetime or wartime.
Frankly speaking, if u have a chance to interact with NSmen driver, u will actually realise that quite a number of them don't go too far in their civilian careers. most of them work at the ground level and u find few of them in managerial position. it sorts of gives the impression that they generally lack leadership or some other skills that are essential for success. maybe tat's the reason why they became driver in first place? however, after saying all this, i must say that there's exceptions to everything. I have met a few successful NSmen driver who are earning big money outside, but they are only a minority.
Maybe some one who works in the NSHRC or G8 branch can enlighten us on this issue? Is there any correlationship btw a person vocation in army and his future career prospect?
another ignorant. but well nvm. first of all , i also didnt see other vocation nsmen earning big bucks now. How many drivers nsmen have you seen or known? and being in a driver vocation and his civillian career outside have got nothing to do with anything. Yeah you said you met a few of successful NSmen driver who are earning big bucks but only a minority. So have you known of any vocation that most of them are earning big bucks now? and i mean MAJORITY of them. If yes pls tell me what vocation is that , so i can go do a research on that. Anyway there is no need someone who works in a NSHRC or G8 branch to enlighten , Me as a small LCP driver can enlighten you on your ignorance. Thanks. And sorry for being straightforward. I cant help it. =)
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Originally posted by Resentment:
another ignorant. but well nvm. first of all , i also didnt see other vocation nsmen earning big bucks now. How many drivers nsmen have you seen or known? and being in a driver vocation and his civillian career outside have got nothing to do with anything. Yeah you said you met a few of successful NSmen driver who are earning big bucks but only a minority. So have you known of any vocation that most of them are earning big bucks now? and i mean MAJORITY of them. If yes pls tell me what vocation is that , so i can go do a research on that. Anyway there is no need someone who works in a NSHRC or G8 branch to enlighten , Me as a small LCP driver can enlighten you on your ignorance. Thanks. And sorry for being straightforward. I cant help it. =)
Honestly speaking, given the current economic climate, it is difficult to state a vocation whereby the majority of the vocationalist will be earning big bucks. But there is something which is undeniable. You need not consider the educational profile of a person before deciding if he's suitable to be a driver. Practically anybody can be a driver. Yes, there are a few exceptions here and there, like diploma or A levels students becoming driver, but you can't deny that they are the minority.There's one thing that i think i ought to share with you all. For mono-intake guys, i actually suspect that the worst of the intake is being sent out of the unit to become drivers and storemen etc. The reason is simple, would you keep problematic guys inside the unit and risk them awoling, commiting theft or escaping a camp with a rifle? Obviously not given that such disciplinary cases would affect the ranking of the unit and not to mention the paperwork that must be done when you need to charge somebody.
After saying all these, my point is not to put anybody down whatsoever. I just want to share my opinion. It is too much of an over-generalisation to conclude that just because some one is from a certain vocations and that's why he will behave in a certain manner. There will always be black sheeps around. Even among the highest ranking NSFs (the CPT MO), I have met some of them that are really responsible and dedicated to their work and some others who do not give a damn about their work. For eg by reporting late for work (more than 2 Hours), affecting the conducting of IPPT of an entire unit and booking out as early as 3PM.
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Hello I used to be a SAF driver until 1992 and I saved alot of money from getting a civilian driving licence by convert the army licence for free when you have a clean driving record in SAF. I wonder SAF still has this policy of giving out civlian driving licence after completion of 2 years of NS.
You should be lucky to be a SAF driver so relax and enjoy life.
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Good to be a driver than other.
You get to learn how to drive, and when rod, it might be useful to you especially when you want to buy car for yourself. Dont need to take driving test (am I right?).
So good!
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Originally posted by hoto:
Honestly speaking, given the current economic climate, it is difficult to state a vocation whereby the majority of the vocationalist will be earning big bucks. But there is something which is undeniable. You need not consider the educational profile of a person before deciding if he's suitable to be a driver. Practically anybody can be a driver. Yes, there are a few exceptions here and there, like diploma or A levels students becoming driver, but you can't deny that they are the minority.There's one thing that i think i ought to share with you all. For mono-intake guys, i actually suspect that the worst of the intake is being sent out of the unit to become drivers and storemen etc. The reason is simple, would you keep problematic guys inside the unit and risk them awoling, commiting theft or escaping a camp with a rifle? Obviously not given that such disciplinary cases would affect the ranking of the unit and not to mention the paperwork that must be done when you need to charge somebody.
After saying all these, my point is not to put anybody down whatsoever. I just want to share my opinion. It is too much of an over-generalisation to conclude that just because some one is from a certain vocations and that's why he will behave in a certain manner. There will always be black sheeps around. Even among the highest ranking NSFs (the CPT MO), I have met some of them that are really responsible and dedicated to their work and some others who do not give a damn about their work. For eg by reporting late for work (more than 2 Hours), affecting the conducting of IPPT of an entire unit and booking out as early as 3PM.
yes i agree with wat u said. drivers vocation have a few a lvl and poly ppl and is minority. but some ppl are saying all are uneducated ppl which is very unfair to them. and i can tell u , mostly the uneducated ones are the one who always get rich. they are just not academically inclined , but i am sure their brain can be more creative and more lively , and i mean they can think out of the box.
obviously u dunno a lot abt army , have u even been enlisted? i feel so sorry if u have ord-ed or are in service and u are still so ignorant. obviously mono intake soldiers are all low educated ppl , and there are bound to have black sheep , but let me tell u , all those cases u talk abt like awol , theft and etc still happens after their mono intake bmt. and right now in my mt line , there is also soldiers from mono intake posted to my camp as drivers and they dun act like wat u said , instead they gt a good performance and 1 of them is going to ord already. and u are wrong not all the ppl who have problem are being posted out , some being posted out is because of medical reason or some of the vocation in nid of manpower , tts y they are being posted to tat vocation.
yes there are black sheeps in every vocation , but ppl including u are always talking about drivers being fuck up and everything , think abt it , is it fair for us? bringing down the reputation of drivers. and ppl are thinking tat they are too highly educated for drivers vocation. those nerds will cry when their instructors start shouting at them. Think army instructors are like those bbdc instructors? pay them money to teach you but instead they sleep in the car. i seen all these on the road before , wearing a shade , but from the side view u can see they are closing their eyes sleeping. Can those nerds even take the shouting and scolding from their instructors? Hell no , they will cry for momma and papa.
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Originally posted by Resentment:
yes i agree with wat u said. drivers vocation have a few a lvl and poly ppl and is minority. but some ppl are saying all are uneducated ppl which is very unfair to them. and i can tell u , mostly the uneducated ones are the one who always get rich. they are just not academically inclined , but i am sure their brain can be more creative and more lively , and i mean they can think out of the box.
obviously u dunno a lot abt army , have u even been enlisted? i feel so sorry if u have ord-ed or are in service and u are still so ignorant. obviously mono intake soldiers are all low educated ppl , and there are bound to have black sheep , but let me tell u , all those cases u talk abt like awol , theft and etc still happens after their mono intake bmt. and right now in my mt line , there is also soldiers from mono intake posted to my camp as drivers and they dun act like wat u said , instead they gt a good performance and 1 of them is going to ord already. and u are wrong not all the ppl who have problem are being posted out , some being posted out is because of medical reason or some of the vocation in nid of manpower , tts y they are being posted to tat vocation.
yes there are black sheeps in every vocation , but ppl including u are always talking about drivers being fuck up and everything , think abt it , is it fair for us? bringing down the reputation of drivers. and ppl are thinking tat they are too highly educated for drivers vocation. those nerds will cry when their instructors start shouting at them. Think army instructors are like those bbdc instructors? pay them money to teach you but instead they sleep in the car. i seen all these on the road before , wearing a shade , but from the side view u can see they are closing their eyes sleeping. Can those nerds even take the shouting and scolding from their instructors? Hell no , they will cry for momma and papa.
Well, from what you have written, it seems like you are actually practicing the very trait which you are trying so hard to bash, which is branding and stereotyping. You claimed that many are stereotyping that drivers are fuck up etc but what did you do to stop or to clear this misperception? You did nothing. In fact, you continued the propagation of stereotyping via sentences like highly educated personnels being nerds, crying for mum and dad when they got scolded. I am not trying to be hostile but I just hope that you can see your own fallacy =D
If you have a chance, do check out with those who had been through OCS or SISPEC what are the scoldings and punishments that they received during their trainee days and do compare that with yours. Do remember they are supposedly the nerds who will cry for mum and dad if they were to get tekaned.
Anyway, i do believe that I know the army stuffs better than you do. Are you sure that ALL the mono guys are lowly educated? What about the commandos? Having said all that, i must emphasise that I do not look down on anybody because of their ranks or vocations. I have got friends who are drivers and i can assure you that they are very intellectual and smart guys. So, my advice to Resentment is that there's no need to get emotional or personal because of different opinions made by different people. Try to see the beauty of diversity..
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LOL? i am practising the very trait of trying hard to bash? no i am not , i am just trying to educate ignorant fool like you. Branding and stereotyping? i dun need to do that the branding is already there. Stereotyping? yeah its true that a lot of ppl are saying drivers are fuck up etc , and i cant do anything about ppl like you saying abt drivers anyway. So how can i stop? pls enlighten. anyway if i try to clear the misperception , you ignorant ppl will also dun understand.
LOL and pls , dun tok abt sispec and ocs , not every highly educated ppl will get into sispec/ocs , so dun tell me abt sispec and ocs , those tekaning and scolding is totally different from driving course. getting fuck individually and as a group is totally different anyway.
know more army stuff than me? okay sure , you claim u know more stuff than me , but i still feel sad for you being so ignorant. but nvm i forgive you for that. i will assume you know more stuff than me then. so who is talking about elite units here? we are talking abt normal mono intake and not the elite unit , and yes there are many poly/JC kids going for mono intake into the elite unit , no doubt abt that , but bear this in mind , before hand we are not talking abt elite unit at all.
You claim you dun look down on anyone , but what you said earlier sounds very ignorant to me , i cant help but enlighten you on the way you speak. Sorry thats me. I dun care if you feel offensive a not.
Anyway my advise to hoto , there is also no need to give ignorant comment because of different opinions made by different ppl. I hope you can see the beauty of diversity and not the beauty of ignorance. =))
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Originally posted by Resentment:
LOL? i am practising the very trait of trying hard to bash? no i am not , i am just trying to educate ignorant fool like you. Branding and stereotyping? i dun need to do that the branding is already there. Stereotyping? yeah its true that a lot of ppl are saying drivers are fuck up etc , and i cant do anything about ppl like you saying abt drivers anyway. So how can i stop? pls enlighten. anyway if i try to clear the misperception , you ignorant ppl will also dun understand.
LOL and pls , dun tok abt sispec and ocs , not every highly educated ppl will get into sispec/ocs , so dun tell me abt sispec and ocs , those tekaning and scolding is totally different from driving course. getting fuck individually and as a group is totally different anyway.
know more army stuff than me? okay sure , you claim u know more stuff than me , but i still feel sad for you being so ignorant. but nvm i forgive you for that. i will assume you know more stuff than me then. so who is talking about elite units here? we are talking abt normal mono intake and not the elite unit , and yes there are many poly/JC kids going for mono intake into the elite unit , no doubt abt that , but bear this in mind , before hand we are not talking abt elite unit at all.
You claim you dun look down on anyone , but what you said earlier sounds very ignorant to me , i cant help but enlighten you on the way you speak. Sorry thats me. I dun care if you feel offensive a not.
Anyway my advise to hoto , there is also no need to give ignorant comment because of different opinions made by different ppl. I hope you can see the beauty of diversity and not the beauty of ignorance. =)
Do you actually understand the point that I am trying to make? Forget it, it is difficult to talk any sense into you. You are getting too emotional to think and argue rationally. You are just rebutting for the sake of rebutting and your rebuttal seriously lacks any substance.
I won't carry on the pointless discussion with you. Well, say whatever you want and continue your silly labelling. I think it's pretty obvious who's the ignorant fool..
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resentment and hoto,
the ability to study is not related to physical fitness, leadership, obedience, mental health, friendship, marksman...
Education level is related to literacy. It is required for the high rank, because their basic communication tool is emails, reports and directives. Hence, and therefore, poly and A level are selected for leadership courses as one of the requirement.
I think driver is a very good vocation. It has physical use in the outside world, unlike rifleman, gunner which does not help in their civilian life at all.
if given a choice, I would choose driver as my vocation. Of course, 8 to 5 clerk is still my number one choice.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
resentment and hoto,
the ability to study is not related to physical fitness, leadership, obedience, mental health, friendship, marksman...
Education level is related to literacy. It is required for the high rank, because their basic communication tool is emails, reports and directives. Hence, and therefore, poly and A level are selected for leadership courses as one of the requirement.
I think driver is a very good vocation. It has physical use in the outside world, unlike rifleman, gunner which does not help in their civilian life at all.
if given a choice, I would choose driver as my vocation. Of course, 8 to 5 clerk is still my number one choice.
Wisdom is not related to education as well, as evidenced by your post.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Wisdom is not related to education as well, as evidenced by your post.
I think u miss out the previous sentence "physical use". A Class 3 license is one of the job requirement for sales related job.
In reference to my friend, u might be surprised, for people who are from single family, living with a mother, in a rented house, having only N level education, a course cost value of $1500 for getting a class 3 license, worth a lot of value in his personal life. Being posted to be a rifleman does not help him at all after he ORD, as he does not have real commercial valued skills. A driving license can help him in his employment.
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Originally posted by hoto:
after reading all these posts,i got a point to make. nobody can deny the importance of logistical support to the successful operation of the armed forces, be it during peacetime or wartime.
Frankly speaking, if u have a chance to interact with NSmen driver, u will actually realise that quite a number of them don't go too far in their civilian careers. most of them work at the ground level and u find few of them in managerial position. it sorts of gives the impression that they generally lack leadership or some other skills that are essential for success. maybe tat's the reason why they became driver in first place? however, after saying all this, i must say that there's exceptions to everything. I have met a few successful NSmen driver who are earning big money outside, but they are only a minority.
Maybe some one who works in the NSHRC or G8 branch can enlighten us on this issue? Is there any correlationship btw a person vocation in army and his future career prospect?
almost of the people who were drivers in their NS days are now delivery drivers for MacD, KFC or despatch drivers lah please.