Hi basically I'm going to ORD soon in less than 2 months. Problem is, my unit has this overseas exercise which actually ends AFTER i ord. So now there are two problems.
First, I read and printed out a copy of the ORD directive which stated that you would ORD on the date specified, or if it is a weekend or public holiday, the prior working day. Also, you have to be PERSONALLY at your unit camp for clearance procedures during WORKING HOURS. Are there actually any fine print regarding this? (Like if you are in an overseas exercise this directive does not apply to you, etc)
Second, is it possible for the unit to involuntary extend your ORD? I have heard rumors of the unit getting OCs to sign the VES (Voluntary Extension Scheme) for those who ORD before the overseas exercise ends, thereby involuntary extending their ORD. Alternatively, is it even LEGAL for the unit to force a soldier who ORD before the overseas exercise ends to participate in said exercise?
Having been in the army for so long, I've long been resigned to the school of thought that basically everything in the army (rest, weekends, freetime, etc) is a privilege and not a right (that's what tekong sergeants always say when one's a recruit). However, I believe that something as important as ORD is NOT a privilege and DEFINITELY a right. Would it be too much to just ask to ORD on the date that one is supposed to ORD? Any thoughts or suggestions on this to shed some light? The unit basically imposed an information blackout after realizing that some people were checking the mindef directives using the OA by blocking all links, rendering the affected personnel information-blind. Anyone else experienced the same thing as well?
Tell ur officer the overseas exercise ends after you ORD. Sometimes they dun take notice unless you highlight.
They cannot force you to extend your ORD date. That is for sure. Just go up the chain of command if they refuse...
Going
to ORD guy, they dun wan to send u for overseas exercise oso....
anything happen to u... they in trouble for kidnapping u overseas.
OK you haven't heard the catch. Problem is, basically most of the specialists (3sg n 2sg both) in the battalion are affected (ie ORD before end of exercise). And without most of these specialists the unit is basically screwed, as the PCs cannot definitely lead the entire platoon by himself. Therefore they are so keen to do so. The first option thus does not work as they already know yet are still trying to (do dno what??). I admit to being very confused as now I don't even know if I can ORD on the date I'm supposed to ORD.
Regarding chain of command, since it is a battalion+brigade thing and the CO's therefore the in-charge, by "go up the chain of command if they refuse" would you mean arranging a dialogue with the division above? If so, how in the world does one do that with someone with such a high rank?
So? they can't force you to extend ORD unless u do it voluntarily..the question now is are u willing to extend your ORD date, sergeant???
100% no way they can extend your ORD.
But seeing your current situation, its a tough call. If the whole unit sergeants want to ORD, what will happen to the oversea training? Nobody know. But by right, the S1 people should have done their job and should be aware of u guys ORD during that oversea training.
Not to worry, I think by then they should have new sergeants posted in to replace u guys.
If not.... good luck...
If no ppl replace u, and u guys wan ord, who knows what will happen during your ICT. Alot of things to play de.
making it easier for unit by self extending ORD, should there be no new spec replacing TS and company, doesn't gurantee that they wun 'play' with you during in camp either.
They tend to have short term memory and forget all the 'favours' the NSF did for them(Regulars). You cannot have TS count on the gratitude of the Regulars to make it easier for you during ICT.
anyway, who is the idiot who have set the date of the exercise in the first place?
What a SAFOS scholar he is.
Or is he trying to play with TS and gang already.
Think we haven got the full story yet.
@jgho83: no the new specs only come in at least 2 months after the end of the exercise (ie abt 2 months after we ord).
Alright, here is the full story. Unit A has an OE in Country X from Date 1 to Date 30 (arbitary numbers, don't mean a thing). Unfortunately 8 out of 10 specs ORD at Dates 26, 27, 28. However, since Date 27 and 28 are saturdays and sundays respectively, and Date 26 is a public holiday, according to the SAF ORD Directive, the "prior working day" would be Date 25. Therefore, all 3 dates should ORD on Date 25.
Now, after attempting to cajole all the specs to extend by 1 month (which no one obviously want to), Unit A managed to arrange an early flight back on Date 27. On top of that, specs who ORD on Date 26 are now exempted from the OE on the pretext that they have no flight back. HOWEVER, this would be ignoring the SAF ORD Directive, whereby all 3 dates actually ORD on the same day! Think about it, even if ORDates 27 and 28 come back on the Date 27 flight, they still ORD late as they have to wait for the next working day!
Interestingly, Unit A did not tell any of these to the specs and instead kept quiet. Which is strange, since so close to the OE and no one knows anything about the details of the OE. Firstly, it is ridiculous that one third of the affected personnel get special treatment and are 'allowed' to ORD on their proper date, yet the other two-thirds remain victimized. Can an enlightened laujiao shed some light on this? It is all the more intriguing when HQ has so much time to plan, almost one year since the specs were posted into the unit, yet they continued to belittle the event that all NSFs look forward to - ORD.
Interestingly, the Unit's RSM reportedly mentioned that he did not need the consent of the specs involved to extend their ORD and that all he needed to do was to go online and press a button. Also, and that the spec's ORD dates as mentioned in the said directive is "subject to unit approval". So basically he's saying the unit can 1) extend one's ORD however it wishes to, and 2) Ignore the Directive and therefore achieving the above without consequence. Anyone care to tell me if it's true?
1 hr b4 you ord u tell yer co...."im going for a holiday....bye bye...."
make sure u got passport etc etc.
since its not a state of emwergency they cant force u.
i suppose if they extend ord date it would means less reservist training....
if rsm does that....u can see him frying kuay teow for his next job.disobeying top orders from way above are tantamount to rsm seeing a generals boot up his arse. .....
speak to your district Minister of parliament.....it helps alot.
Originally posted by Atreides:@jgho83: no the new specs only come in at least 2 months after the end of the exercise (ie abt 2 months after we ord).
Alright, here is the full story. Unit A has an OE in Country X from Date 1 to Date 30 (arbitary numbers, don't mean a thing). Unfortunately 8 out of 10 specs ORD at Dates 26, 27, 28. However, since Date 27 and 28 are saturdays and sundays respectively, and Date 26 is a public holiday, according to the SAF ORD Directive, the "prior working day" would be Date 25. Therefore, all 3 dates should ORD on Date 25.
Now, after attempting to cajole all the specs to extend by 1 month (which no one obviously want to), Unit A managed to arrange an early flight back on Date 27. On top of that, specs who ORD on Date 26 are now exempted from the OE on the pretext that they have no flight back. HOWEVER, this would be ignoring the SAF ORD Directive, whereby all 3 dates actually ORD on the same day! Think about it, even if ORDates 27 and 28 come back on the Date 27 flight, they still ORD late as they have to wait for the next working day!
Interestingly, Unit A did not tell any of these to the specs and instead kept quiet. Which is strange, since so close to the OE and no one knows anything about the details of the OE. Firstly, it is ridiculous that one third of the affected personnel get special treatment and are 'allowed' to ORD on their proper date, yet the other two-thirds remain victimized. Can an enlightened laujiao shed some light on this? It is all the more intriguing when HQ has so much time to plan, almost one year since the specs were posted into the unit, yet they continued to belittle the event that all NSFs look forward to - ORD.
Interestingly, the Unit's RSM reportedly mentioned that he did not need the consent of the specs involved to extend their ORD and that all he needed to do was to go online and press a button. Also, and that the spec's ORD dates as mentioned in the said directive is "subject to unit approval". So basically he's saying the unit can 1) extend one's ORD however it wishes to, and 2) Ignore the Directive and therefore achieving the above without consequence. Anyone care to tell me if it's true?
make an anonymous call to mindef concerning so n so unit n problems.they will send SIB down to investigate non compliance and self made orders that was never generated from top mindef generals.
its orders like those self made proclaimation from some rsm that would turn countries into another POL pot cambodia..
report it anonymous.
probably wont be long that rsm will force sick reservist to go for in camp training etc etc.
make a call to SIB.
please state your unit.i will make a call to SIB.
the RSM himself is going against orders and he is forcing u to extend your ord.???this is unheard of in the history of SAF.
is the RSM insane??is he tryin to get away with murder next?ord finish on that date....then u should go on that date.its professionalism even as a soldier.its like u were given orders from the top to guard a village but some stupid rsm who thinks hes so smart decides to overide general orders and take over another village instead.
thats no RSM .....thats a kuay teow seller.
its only an exercise...not a real war.there will be other exercise to overseas after u become a reservist.
the rsm encik etc didnt plan properly on new blood into their unit....so instead of them getting the shit for poor plannin....u ns guys end up taking the shit while he gets away scot free.....he must have been paid plenty for not doin much of simple manpower plannin.
what happened to my unit was that all those specs who were going to ORD would not be going for the exercise...and I think there were some borrowed specs from other units...I know coz i was in S1 branch.
but some officers who really siao on really did VES just for the exercise.
dont be stupid leh.
let say u ord dec 25.
ur OE is from dec 1 to 30.
but u in mid nov or early dec clear leave / off liao leh.. still OE wat fu(k. than ur leave + off, all kana eat?
talk to ps, than pc, than oc, than co, after co it hotline time. let them die.
no need OE for them lah. waste time.
No worries.ORD means ORD!U have alredi served ur time,they got no right to hold u unless u did something serious but the main issue is...ur 'FREE" on ur ORD date!
THINK ITS TOO LATE ALREADY....JUST TRY TO FIND A WAY OUT.