NS: Are There NS AWOL/ Defaulters/ Deserters? Court Jail?
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Ok. I’ve got a question. Are there draft dodgers in Singapore?
In South Korea, almost all sons of influential people somehow get
exemption from doing military service. Park Joo Shin is the son
of the Mayor of Seoul(South Korea’s capital). He got exempted
from military service. According to the doctor who examined his
body, Park Joo Shin’s spine was so severly wounded that he cannot
even jump. However, as you can see very clearly in the video at
http://blog.naver.com/equity1/90135044770
He can jump! Wow! what a mysterious injury he has. Perfectly ok
when he is having fun and perfectly fatal when he was examined
by the doctor employed by the ministry of defence.
I only wish I had had the same injury when I was examined by
the Ministry of Defence doctors.
His father, Park Won Soon is the left wing politician who always
criticized the right wing leaders on the ground that the right wing
politicians are draft dodgers and their sons also inherited the same
tendency to get exemption from military service.
Anyways, Park Won Soon himself did not do military service.
His son is not going to do military service, either.
That’s why I say practically all Korean politicians are corrupt and
immoral. We South Korean soldiers are defending this country
for the privileged draft dodgers and their wives, sons and daughters.
Why must we Korean soldiers bleed to defend those aristocrats?
By the way.. I really wish to know.. Are there draft dodgers in Singapore?
I read a novel written by a US veteran who fought in the Vietnam war.
In that novel, the protagonist considers crossing the border between
the US and Canada to avoid doing military service..
Maybe some unscrupulous Singaporean boys cross the border between
Singapore and Malaysia in order to avoid military service?
In South Korea, draft dodgers have three choices.
They can go to another country, usually Canada or Argentina, get
citizenship of the country then come back to South Korea.. They
have the same rights as other Koreans but have no duties..
So we call them the black haired foreigners.. A good example of
such a black haired foreigner is Tablo the singer.
Or they can bribe doctors employed by the ministry of defence.
Park Joo Shin, Park Won Soon’s son allegedly have bribed the
ministry of defence doctor who examined his body..
The two choices are chosen by the aristocrats of South Korea.
Still there is one more choice available to underclass Korean boys..
That is paralyzing his own body. MC Mong the singer chose to pull
all his teeth. Lee Kwang Jae the politician chose to cut his index
finger.. Without the index finger, you cannot pull the trigger of
the rifle.. so you surely get exemption from military service..
Answers to your questions..
didn't your country have similar monetary/work as you study reward
to attact talent to the army, especially facing the threat from the north?
Yes. Korean college students can get a scholarship as well as some
stipends if he or she promises to serve as an officer for 3 years or
longer.. That’s true.. However, rich kids don’t make the choice.
Beacause those aristocrats are too noble to be beaten in the Korea
Armed Forces.. They just bribe doctors and get exemption from
doing military service. or choose to be either a Canadian or an
Argentinian.
You know.. His Excellency Prime Minister Lee served in the
SAF longer than 20 years.. Even though he is His Excellency
former Prime Minister Lee’s son.
On the contrary, South Korea’s aristocrats never do military service.
Because they have so many underclass kids who will sacrifice their
lives to defend their family and fortune in times of war.
It’s something like the Korean soldiers in the Japanese Imperial
Armed Forces.. They fought shouting Tenno Heika Banjai(Long Live
His Majesty the Emperror of Japan). Maybe they will bleed in battle
shouting, “Long Live the aristocrats of South Korea!”
In korea, any interesting similar case happen to the gay as well?
Didn't tell me they get beaten as well?
Homosexuals usually have a hard time.. However, when they get
promoted to be a sergeant, they can do whatever they want..
Of course, many of them molest their junior soldiers sexually..
According to recent news, a Republic of Korea Marine officer
raped his junior soldier. You can read an article about that at
http://news.kukinews.com/article/view.asp?page=1&gCode=soc&arcid=0003946136&cp=nv
Even if there are korean lady who really wanted to join army or police force just as in the movie "My Girlfriend Is An Agent", would they be well respect in their fields and free from violence?
They are not free from violence.. They get beaten, too. Phoe Woo Jin, former
officer of the Republic of Korea Army was a helicpoter pilot, wrote as
follows in her autobiography,<Female soldiers don’t like chocolate>.
“While I was taught how to pilot the helicopters, I was regularly beaten
by my instructors. They usually delivered heavy blows on my butts by
swinging baseball bats.”
However, I must say all female officers are also brutally violent..
While I was at highschool, my chemistry teacher was a former black
beret. The black berets are an equivalent of the commando unit in
the Singapore Armed Forces. They also killed so many civilians in
the Chunnam province massacre.
She was airdropped in North Korea and participated in several
secret missions there. I don’t know how many North Korean soldiers
she killed but she was undoubtedly a formidable combatant..
Anyways.. whenever we scored badly on the chemistry test,
she swung her baseball bat and our butts were on fire!
Honestly, I think she learned the habit of swinging the baseball bat
while she was doing military service. She got beaten and by being
beaten, she leaned the art of effective beating.
Are they respected? Oh you don’t have to respect them..
As long as your butts are fireproof..
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I'll answer your questions:
By the way.. I really wish to know.. Are there draft dodgers in Singapore? Maybe some unscrupulous Singaporean boys cross the border between Singapore and Malaysia in order to avoid military service?
This is something few Singaporeans understand. In Singapore, you are not allowed to renounce your citizenship between age 11 and National Service. To study abroad beyond age of 16, you must post a security deposit of $70,000 and if you do not return, you will be convicted when you do. If you are already abroad, you cannot be stopped from renouncing your citizenship any time you want.
You can and MUST renounce your citizenship before becoming a soldier, otherwise your duty remains and you will be convicted for not serving it. There was a stupid idiot who lived in Malaysia for 20 years and was jailed. He said he was not aware of his duty. The penalty for draft dodging varies.
We have a famous draft dodger, Melvyn Tan. There was a controversy over his treatment when he returned to Singapore and our long-serving defence minister explained to the public:
- Where the default period exceeds two years but the defaulter is young enough to serve his full-time and operationally ready NS duties in full, MINDEF will press for a short jail sentence.
- Where the defaulter has reached an age when he cannot serve his full-time NS in a combat vocation or fulfil his operationally ready NS obligations in full, a longer jail sentence to reflect the period of NS he has evaded may be appropriate.
- Where the defaulter has reached an age when he cannot be called up for NS at all, a jail sentence up to the maximum of three years may be appropriate.
Unfortunately, Melvyn was to serve around 1974 and returned in 2005. He was fined about $3000 and not jailed.
Some believe the government is eager to boost the local arts scene and forgive a famous and successful pianist, or that Melvyn is well-connected. It is an insult to the honour of our NS Men that Melvyn performed a piano recital at a ceremony marking 45 years of National Service.
http://kementah.blogspot.com/2011/12/45-years-of-national-service-ns.html
There was also controversy over our President's son. He deferred National Service 11-12 years to study a PhD in the US. When he returned, he served a comfortable job as a non-uniformed "defence scientist" which may or may not have benefitted his career.
For every other soldier, you cannot defer NS more than 2 years to complete secondary education and cannot defer at all to attend university.
http://kementah.blogspot.com/2011_08_01_archive.html
You know.. His Excellency Prime Minister Lee served in the SAF longer than 20 years.. Even though he is His Excellency former Prime Minister Lee’s son.
Lee joined the Singapore Armed Forces in 1971 (age 19) and rose quickly through the ranks in the Army, becoming the youngest Brigadier-General in Singapore's history after his promotion in July 1983. Lee left the military in 1984 in order to enter politics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Hsien_Loong#Career_in_the_Singapore_Armed_Forces
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Are there conscript defaulter here in Singapore? What kind of question is this?
So long as an army is conscripted - defaulter is anywhere and everywhere. Here in Singapore, in Korea, in US, in Isreal etcI notice from the number of your posts, your questions are always about Korea and Korea issues.
If you are really pissed off with Korean corruption, go and post in a Korean website. Why do it here?
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I asked my American frined this question..
“Mr. Obama didn't do military service but Mr Mccain did. He was even
captured in Vietnam. Why did you vote for Mr. Obama?”
He replied,“it doesn't matter.” I just cannot understand his answer.
Judging by what he says, Americans think its’ somewhat fancy to
be a draft dodger..
I once had an American girlfriend. She told me that she was a Jew.
You know all Jewish sons and daughters have to do military service
in Israel. So I asked her, “Did you do military service in Israel?”
Her answer was no. “Are you planning to do military service in
Israel?“ I asked her again. Her answer was No again.
“I think doing military service is a waste of time.” She added.
I was quite angry with her.
“You traitor. you are a Steve Yoo.” I shouted in a rage and
from then on I never met her again.
If you want to know who Steve Yoo is.. visit an website about
him at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Seungjun_Yoo
I was surprised because, according to Alize, a son of a
singaporean president managed to avoid military service..
Anyways, I just want to tell you a story of two Korean men.
They were all International Math Olympiads gold medalists.
One of them chose to do military service and spent two years
in the Army. The other chose to avoid military service.
A few years later, both of the two got admission to Harvard.
The guy who spent two years in the army successfully
earned a Ph.D from Harvard and he’s now a Professor of
Mathematics at MIT.
visit the following websites for more information.
http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~swshin/CV2009.pdf
http://math.mit.edu/people/profile.php?pid=1309
What happened to the draft dodger? Oh he failed to
earn a Ph.D from Harvard. He’s now a part time teacher
at an unknown school. I doubt he can survive on the meager
monthly wage he is being paid..
If you have done military service, it’s something you should
be proud of. You are a well tempered man hardened through
the hardships you had while you were doing military service.
So you can do everything better than any draft dodger can.
Prof. Shin of MIT and his Harvard Classmate can be a good
proof of my opinion.
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Originally posted by Daeho0228:
He replied,“it doesn't matter.” I just cannot understand his answer.
What's so hard to understand? They don't like McCain's politics, prefer Obama's lah.
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Americans are 99% concerned about the economy at this time and they know they have a comfortable lead in military power. President Obama picked as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs an Army general known to be budget conscious, and the Army alone is expected to shrink by about 10% soon. He was expected to pick another general more familiar with next generation military technology (the kind useful for confronting China) but perhaps he will in 4 years time.
Daeho, how is life in ROK military? Over here, ordinary sons must serve but some try to get medical downgrades. The saying is that no human body is perfect and you just have to find the problems. This grants excuse from fitness tests that must be taken until about age 40. While serving they have to be assigned as clerks, storemen, drivers etc. How many of Korean soldiers serve in these easier jobs?
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Daeho, how is life in ROK military? Over here, ordinary sons must serve but some try to get medical downgrades. The saying is that no human body is perfect and you just have to find the problems. This grants excuse from fitness tests that must be taken until about age 40. While serving they have to be assigned as clerks, storemen, drivers etc. How many of Korean soldiers serve in these easier jobs?
About 2% of korean young men get exemtion from military service and oddly
enough they are usually sons of rich businessmen or influential bureaucrats.
and about 5% of Korean young men don’t have to serve as a soldier. They
have to work as Public Service Agents. They usually serve at subway stations
helping old people or handicapped people travel by train. Or they have to
work as clerks. These days, some of them work at schools keeping an
eye on school bullying. And the 97% of young men have to do military
service. Although the public service agents don’t do military service..
they are also being beaten by their senior agents.. Well.. Honestly,
All Koreans are so much addicted to brutal violence so violence is
everywhere in Korea. In the parliament Congressmen and congresswomen
can have discussions. Usually, the discussions get fierce. Then the
congressmen and congresswomen usually start hand to hand combat.
Congresswomen pull her opponent’s hair and congressmen punch and
kick. Some congressmen are highly trained martial artists and their
skills are sometimes quite awe inspiring.
You can see one of such martial art master congressmen at
http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=ohmben&logNo=10059195322
The Judo technique he performs in the video is Tomoe Nage and it’s
a highly advanced technique. I’m sure the guy is a Judo Black Belt.
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You South Koreans should throw out the americans first and reject their dictates and then settle the problem with DPRK on your own.
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Yes I see Koreans mock slap the faces of their subordinates on TV. The subordinate gets away with a huge chiding only if she's female.
We probably have the 2% excused from service and maybe 20% in the administrative side of the army, driving vehicles, working as storemen. Another 5% are in the strictest medical condition who still serve, handling nothing but paper at the headquarters, sometimes not in uniform.
An ordinary family can afford to spend a few thousand dollars in medical fees investigating that ache and pain somewhere in the body. He will enter the 20%. A rich family can spend more money and be more creative, they enter the 5%. Of coure there are honest medical cases as well.
We don't have alternative non-military service at all. Those who refuse to bear arms for religious reasons (eg Jehovah's Witnesses) are jailed for 3 years. Jehovah's Witnesses are an intellectually successful community here, so the government is reluctant to punish them too much.
However, many of our minorities serve in the Police or Civil Defence forces, instead of the Army. Within the Army, they are seen more often in some units and less often in others.
- "If, for instance, you put in a Malay officer who's very religious and who has family ties in Malaysia in charge of a machine gun unit, that's a very tricky business. We've got to know his background... I'm saying these things because they are real, and if I don't think that, and I think even if today the Prime Minister doesn't think carefully about this, I and my family could have a tragedy." - SM Lee Kuan Yew, Straits Times, September 19, 1999 on Malays in the Singapore Armed Forces
- In 1987, Lee Hsien Loong (then Second Minister for Defence) stated that "If there is a conflict, if the SAF is called to defend the homeland, we do not want to put any of our soldiers in a difficult position where his emotions for the nation may be in conflict with his religion"
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Honestly, South Korea is a living fossil of Imperial Japan.
South Korea’s soldiers are treated in the same way as the
way the Imperial Japanese Armed Forces soldiers were treated..
that is being beaten regularly..
Most leaders of South Korea were educated in the Japanese way..
Of course, they spoke the Japanese Language fluently.
Former President of South Korea, Park Chung Hee was a
graduate of the Japanese Military Academy and he fought
against the Chinese Red Army in Manchuria as an officer of
the Japanese Imperial Army.
When Kim Dae Jung visited Japane after he was elected as
president of South Korea,he met his old Japanese teacher and said,
“Sensei(meaning teacher in Japanese) Toyota des(This is Toyota:
Toyota was Kim Dae Jung’s Japanese name).
The Incumbent President of South Korea Lee Myung Bak was
born in Osaka, Japan. He even has a Japanese name Tsukiyama
Akihiro. In Osaka, you can see a memorial column celebrating
Osaka’s son, Akihiro’s getting elected as President in South Korea.
Some Japanese think he’s a Korean version of Alberto Fujimori,
the Peruvian President of Japanese descent.
South Korea’s most prestigeous college is Seoul National University
which is an equivalent of National University of Singapore in Singapore.
Seoul National University used to be Keijo Teigoku Daigaku
(Keijo Imperial University) It was one of the Teigoku Daigaku(imperial
University) founded in Korea by the Japanese Empire.
Of course, the intention of the Japanese bureaucrats was to educate
elite koreans to be running dogs of the Japanese Empire.
Almost all bureaucrats in South Korea graduted from Either Keijo
Teigoku Daigaku or Seoul National Universtity.
So they may have asked their Professors in Japan.
“Sensei(meaning teachers in Japan) Our soldiers are so little motivated
that they will shoot their officers and senior soldiers in times of war.
What should we do about that problem?”
The teachers in Japan knew the solution to the problem very well.
Because there were and still are the US troops in Japan.
“Ask the US Government for the US Troops.”
must have been the reply..
You know, in 1995, US marines in Japan raped a Japanese schoolgirl.
Things like that happens in Japan and in South Korea practically
on a daily basis. However, there are still US troops in Japan and
its living fossil, South Korea.. The reason is the Japanese Self Defence
Forces and the Korean Armed Forces cannot possibly defend their
countries without the US Forces..
However, Singapore is different.. Its Armed Forces is modeled on
Israel’s Armed Forces. Although surrounded by enemy countries,
the Israeli Armed Forces successfully defended Israel’s territory
without any foreign armed intervention.
We all know Israel’s military prowess now. That’s because we know
the Israelis won decisive victories in the Six Day War and the October war.
However, His Excellency former Prime Minister Lee had known the truth
even before those Israelis won the resounding victories and chose to
model the SAF on the Israeli Armed Forces.. What a visionary leader
he was..
Yeah.. The Israelis won many decisive battles.. However, Sun tzu said
as follows.. “Wining one hundred battles is not the greatest excellence.
The greatest excellence is subduing the enemy without fighting at all..”
Has Singapore ever been forced to fight Malaysia or Indonesia?
No.. So we can safely say, “His Excellency Former Prime Minister Lee
is the greatest Military Leader of all time.”
I personally think he’s greater than Alexander the great or Ghengis Khan
in the sense that he subdued the enemies without fighting at all..
However, you Singaporeans vilify His Excellency Former Prime Minister
Lee..Yeah.. If you had had Leaders like Kim Dae Jung, your girfriends
would have been raped by US marines in Singapore..
So I assert again as usual,“You Singaporeans should be grateful to
His Excellency Former Prime Minister Lee.”
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and in very comfortable positions as a translator and another a policeman.
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I really think you have too sweet a view of Singapore. Perhaps have not spent a reasonable length of time here, or are a member of our Korean expatriate community and generally insulated from the problems of average Singaporeans. It is not all fun and games here.
I have noticed the Korean community here has very positive views of Singapore. They've told me they feel Singapore is an intelligent nation because the senority system is not practiced here, and English allows us to engage other cultures. To them, the experience is truly liberating.
I would say this view is too extreme. Korean expatriates tend to mix with the upper crust of our society here. If they were to socialize more widely, they would not find many people like me who know so much about your country or any others. (Look at the three posts below my post.)
You might know the Korean government makes a show of wanting the US to leave Korea, but is actually reluctant to take over. Any country would want the overwhelming power of the US on its side, what more tens of thousands of US troops to guarantee US promises. Consider this: your ROK military is technologically advanced but has refused to take on advanced capabilities such as Apache attack helicopters and MRLS beyond token numbers. The US provides the bulk of these expensive weapons, Korea does not have to pay. Of late, why has your Navy received the most high-tech goodies? Because the standing US naval commitment is extremely modest, not a single ship is permanently there and Korea must defend itself at sea. What has done more to reduce troop numbers in Korea from 37,000 to 30,000 and now to 23,000: Korean opposition or US commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan and the economic crisis? And why has the takeover of Combined Forces Command been delayed yet again?
We in Singapore continue to court US presence through our air and naval bases, only the sensibilities of our neighbours prevent this from happening.
Last week, our former Deputy Prime Minister and founding PAP member Toh Chin Chye died, aged 91. He is mourned by Singaporeans and remembered as more caring and humane than someone else, who did not command respect by fear. He also served a shorter time than many of our ministers in office today, and was a critic of our government after leaving politics in the 1990s. One wonders why he left office or if anyone made him leave. It might be wise to accord some credit to men like this, and not all to Lee Kuan Yew who never apologizes for his mistakes and seems to insult his subjects whenever he speaks.
Perhaps the grass is always greener on the other side wherever one may be. You might like to live in Singapore just as I would like to leave for another country. I would personally do so even if I do not benefit materially. I consider it more important to have a richer journey in life.
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Those who are liable to serve national service but refuse are charged under the Enlistment Act. If convicted, they face three years' imprisonment and a fine of S$10,000.
Controversy arose when the penalties were increased in January 2006 after Melvyn Tan, who was born in Singapore, received a fine for defaulting on his National Service obligations. Tan left for London to study music during his enlistment age and later acquired British nationality. In parliament, Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean provided some illustration of the punishments defaulters would face:
- Where the default period exceeds two years but the defaulter is young enough to serve his full-time and operationally ready NS duties in full, MINDEF will press for a short jail sentence.
- Where the defaulter has reached an age when he cannot serve his full-time NS in a combat vocation or fulfil his operationally ready NS obligations in full, a longer jail sentence to reflect the period of NS he has evaded may be appropriate.
- Where the defaulter has reached an age when he cannot be called up for NS at all, a jail sentence up to the maximum of three years may be appropriate.
Each year, a small number of people are convicted for their failure to enlist or refusal to be conscripted. Most of them were Jehovah's Witnesses, who are usually court-martialled and sentenced to three years' imprisonment, but they are usually held in a low-security detention facility and separated from other conscription offenders. The government does not consider conscientious objection to be a legal reason for refusal to serve NS.
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Originally posted by Daeho0228:
Honestly, South Korea is a living fossil of Imperial Japan.
You might as well come tell me Singapore is a westernised fossil of a british colony.
Most leaders of South Korea were educated in the Japanese way..
Sama sama lah, Singapore all the peranakans all also trained under british system, went to london universities. For example that anglophile bastard Harry Lee Kuan Yew. Turn Singapore to banana country.
The Incumbent President of South Korea Lee Myung Bak was
born in Osaka, Japan. He even has a Japanese name Tsukiyama
Akihiro.
here same leh, that bastard Lee Kuan Yew also got ang moh name Harry. But now no more use because have to act as fake chinese.
Exposed as anglophile peranakan, how to suppress and kill off chinese education and culture? have to act as fake chinese as cover mah.
The reason is the Japanese Self Defence Forces and the Korean Armed Forces cannot possibly defend their countries without the US Forces.
Can't be lah. They just take the U.S troops for granted already lah.
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hey daeho....do they serve bbq squid by the beach???u sure u counted all the tentacles on squid or do they always come to u with just 4 tentacles???
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life is like a plate of bbq dried cuttlefish.
if u find theres less and less tentacles on your bbq cuttlefish and chunks missing from them till u cant eat it properly......try another cuttlefish stall!
that way u dont make those swindling cuttlefish stalls prosper.but if u do get rat eaten cuttlefish and say its good even though u didnt take a good look at it all...........then u seriously need help.eat more beef!
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Please be non-partisan on the topic.
Please don't politicise the topic.
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I hope the post wasn't too long. You may like to use slightly different words or send them by private message.
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Hi, Mr Daeho0228 again, as request if you want to understand more about our founding father whom I believed you know who I am refering to without any bias, I suggested that you read up on "interesting" event that is related to our Singapore 3nd President Devan Nair. After that whether the whole incident is an fact or fiction on why our President Devan Nair resigned, you decided and be the judge cos I am not saying anything negative or positive "fairy tale" in Singapore. But personally I can only said in "courtesy" way that part of singapore success is build on "Machiavellian" philosophy.
And as the the answer to your thread question, you might be interested to read this acticle what an top school NS man in Singapore done when he is serving his NS term : http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_690146.html anyway this incident is just an minority because as mention those singaporean who choose to sign on are either due to "good" salary or is because of Scholarship opportunity to study in university offered by SAF which they have to serve 6 years.Other than that most singaporean don't see the reason why they must get into trouble with the law. In fact there is an indirect saying that for Singapore Armed people, just a wind blow they will be "blow" away. Unless you are charged with serious offence like the above news link, the top brass/rank would only just raise their voice instead of using violence against their junior. And thank for your answers.
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Just serve and fuck off la. why default. siao eh