Perceptions About NCC...
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Hi guys, I'm a Cadet Lieutenant (CLT) from the NCC, its has been inevitable that I was laugh at by those SAF guys when I was in uniform... Seriously, I was puzzled by it, should'nt NCC be considered as the younger counterparts of the SAF?? , furthermore, the NCC has produced various talents that is currently holding key appointment in the SAF (1/4 of senior officers holding the rank of major and above are former NCC cadets, Chief Of Navy RADM Ronnie Tay and Chief SAF Medical Corps BG Wong Yue Sie are also former NCC cadets). Just interested to know the perceptions of you guys... pls share, thanks....
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That's because not many guys like NS, u will know when u are in there the reason why many does not like NS, tell u here also no point. It's very messy and inefficient, that's why people in NS will laugh at you at wasting your time doing NCC when u can spend your time doing some other things.
That's m y view anyway. -
NCC, not nearly near the real thing.
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yeps, what people do in 4-5 years of ncc in sec sch is less than what a soldier does in 3 months of BMT...Originally posted by ditzy:NCC, not nearly near the real thing.
I was in NCC too..
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i dont find NCC cadets laughable.Originally posted by Prestroz:Hi guys, I'm a Cadet Lieutenant (CLT) from the NCC, its has been inevitable that I was laugh at by those SAF guys when I was in uniform... Seriously, I was puzzled by it, should'nt NCC be considered as the younger counterparts of the SAF?? , furthermore, the NCC has produced various talents that is currently holding key appointment in the SAF (1/4 of senior officers holding the rank of major and above are former NCC cadets, Chief Of Navy RADM Ronnie Tay and Chief SAF Medical Corps BG Wong Yue Sie are also former NCC cadets). Just interested to know the perceptions of you guys... pls share, thanks....
but the behaviour and mannerism of many NCC cadets, while they are in uniform, disturbs me.
i suppose one of the things NCC instructors would have taught all of you, is discipline, and the need to be proud of the uniform you don and the organisation (SAF in this case) you represent when you don it, especially when you are in public.
sadly, many instances i witnessed have left me in doubt.
another disturbing thing i see is how many NCC cadets are improperly attired in uniform. ridiculous smart 4s, lousy boot quality, oversized uniforms, improper attire (say, t-shirt + slacks). again, i would imagine you would have been taught what proper attire is. it makes me wonder why there is no ruling to disallow you to be in uniform while in public.
i will not argue about one's motivation in joining the corp, since afterall, it is a CCA. but at least, when one joins it, one should behave as required to portray good image of the corp. instructors should also impart such lessons properly, and emphasise on this aspect, and punish the delinquents. the very fact that you posted here asking this question probably meant you have a certain amount of pride to be in the corp. would you want a deviant minority to destroy people's perception of it? -
Being a cadet LTA, I guess you have the enthusiasm and interest to participate in NCC activities. Keep at it but do not let your NCC achievements get to your head during BMT.
Why? Let me tell you from first hand as a former BMT instructor.... and as a friend of a former NCC officer. If you let it get to your head and get into your BMT instructors' bad books, you will be in for a lot of shit. Furthermore, you may dash your chances going to OCS or even SISPEC, to get the rank you actually deserve (i.e. 2LT or 3SG).
My friend was a NCC LTA, he thought he knew a lot and was (as I heard from another friend in the same BMT platoon) sometimes was arrogant towards the NCO instructors. Bad practice .... He was not even chosen to go to SISPEC or OCS because of bad reports from the instructors and peers, but instead went straight to one of those support vocation school and had to work from private to corporal... the hard way !!!
Luckily, his family was rich, they migrated but also funded him to do dentistry overseas. He is now in Singapore, and because he is a dentist , he is now a captain in a reservist medical BN.
Well done for getting your "bars" in the NCC but trust me, it will not count. You have to prove yourself all over again. -
Talking about NCC, when I was a recruit, on of the weekend during bookout, I was shocked to see a MSG looking so young! On close inspection...Chey! NCC...
Nearly got smoke and nearly (just nearly) saying "Good Afternoon Encik!"
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I was from NCC too... but last time i remember we used to take pride in our uniforms, it was the temasek green and we had to starch it!
anyway... like what wuming said... its not laughable, but i just don't like the way they behave or dress.
my friend was a private in the army, and some ncc cadets, ranked at ssg or msg tried to be funny with him. y'know how children do it, as u walk past them and they make remarks...
anyway, when i was attached to airforce museum to help out with the school outings, the kids came... misbehaved and dressed badly.
Well, like an old soldier who compares things back then with now... i do the same to the current batch of ncc cadets -
Well,its sad but true.am in NCC now and intending to serve as a Cadet Lieutenant after my O'lvl this year.Hope that I am able to change the mentality of my peers,ncos and so on.
The reason for the discipline and drop in standards is very simple,in all instances its due to the Commanding Officer,Teacher officers slack and welfare policies.They see it as a CCA, when in actual fact it is a paramilitary unit.
How do you expect the cadets to dress and behave approaiately when my own CO in Beatty NCC[Land] wore his No.3 and wore slippers during the school camp.And was walkin around with the pants leg of it rolled up?How do you expect NCOs and CLTs to change when we cannot even raise our voice at the cadets?I have seen my fellow NCO being pumped and scolded by the CO and Teacher Officers for pumping the cadets.
So I don't blame the SAF people for laughing at the NCC cadets,NCOs,CLTs,but we do have to solve the problem but eliminating the slack and undisclipined image and restore the pride and glory we used to have. -
NCC and NS are 2 totally different thing. NCC at most every saturday go back for 1/2 day of activities. but NS it's a monday to saturday thing, for combat fit soldiers, we have to chong suah, take responsibility and do our duties every month.Originally posted by Prestroz:Hi guys, I'm a Cadet Lieutenant (CLT) from the NCC, its has been inevitable that I was laugh at by those SAF guys when I was in uniform... Seriously, I was puzzled by it, should'nt NCC be considered as the younger counterparts of the SAF?? , furthermore, the NCC has produced various talents that is currently holding key appointment in the SAF (1/4 of senior officers holding the rank of major and above are former NCC cadets, Chief Of Navy RADM Ronnie Tay and Chief SAF Medical Corps BG Wong Yue Sie are also former NCC cadets). Just interested to know the perceptions of you guys... pls share, thanks....
NCC don't have all that, they don't need to chong suah, do SOC, go through live-firing, go through out field training with heavy field packs and rifles like GPMG, SAW. they don't have to take responsibilities like account for your men, ammunitions and field equpiment. guess u NCC don't know what 'signing extras', 'signning 1206' and 'getting charge' are right? -
NCC is not the real thingOriginally posted by Prestroz:Hi guys, I'm a Cadet Lieutenant (CLT) from the NCC, its has been inevitable that I was laugh at by those SAF guys when I was in uniform... Seriously, I was puzzled by it, should'nt NCC be considered as the younger counterparts of the SAF?? , furthermore, the NCC has produced various talents that is currently holding key appointment in the SAF (1/4 of senior officers holding the rank of major and above are former NCC cadets, Chief Of Navy RADM Ronnie Tay and Chief SAF Medical Corps BG Wong Yue Sie are also former NCC cadets). Just interested to know the perceptions of you guys... pls share, thanks.... -
i think they know that too.Originally posted by Gordonator:NCC and NS are 2 totally different thing. NCC at most every saturday go back for 1/2 day of activities. but NS it's a monday to saturday thing, for combat fit soldiers, we have to chong suah, take responsibility and do our duties every month.
NCC don't have all that, they don't need to chong suah, do SOC, go through live-firing, go through out field training with heavy field packs and rifles like GPMG, SAW. they don't have to take responsibilities like account for your men, ammunitions and field equpiment. guess u NCC don't know what 'signing extras', 'signning 1206' and 'getting charge' are right?
but the question is, why do us in the SAF uniform think of them that way.
Sure we have gone through training, they don't go through that. But i think the hidden truth is the pride in the uniform we're wearing. -
sad....Originally posted by SpecOps87:Well,its sad but true.am in NCC now and intending to serve as a Cadet Lieutenant after my O'lvl this year.Hope that I am able to change the mentality of my peers,ncos and so on.
The reason for the discipline and drop in standards is very simple,in all instances its due to the Commanding Officer,Teacher officers slack and welfare policies.They see it as a CCA, when in actual fact it is a paramilitary unit.
How do you expect the cadets to dress and behave approaiately when my own CO in Beatty NCC[Land] wore his No.3 and wore slippers during the school camp.And was walkin around with the pants leg of it rolled up?How do you expect NCOs and CLTs to change when we cannot even raise our voice at the cadets?I have seen my fellow NCO being pumped and scolded by the CO and Teacher Officers for pumping the cadets.
So I don't blame the SAF people for laughing at the NCC cadets,NCOs,CLTs,but we do have to solve the problem but eliminating the slack and undisclipined image and restore the pride and glory we used to have.
i hope 1 day COA MG Desmond Quek go down to your school and give your CO and teachers officers a good scolding. 
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agreed! but for some of us maybe. from what i see outside, some NSF don't even bother to fold their smart 4 neatly, kiwi their boots...Originally posted by kopiosatu:Sure we have gone through training, they don't go through that. But i think the hidden truth is the pride in the uniform we're wearing. -
that's the thing... we take pride in the uniform, though many don't admit to it. but you do feel smarter compared to the sloppyness we see, and the first thing that comes to mind is, COMPARISON.Originally posted by Gordonator:agreed! but for some of us maybe. from what i see outside, some NSF don't even bother to fold their smart 4 neatly, kiwi their boots...
and why compare? because the SAF makes us do things a certain way, we follow. We know the standard required. we look at them wear the uniform, totally not up to standard. you see their behaviour, its out of line when wearing that uniform. people compare because humans like to see what is better. Why do we compare? because of pride of wat we have.
Another thing, maybe you see a NCC cadet, higher rank than you... first thing that comes to your mind? "so young rank so high", yes i know its NCC. But going through the military, you know the value of the ranks. So once again, pride comes in. People go through bmt, exercises... and they get PTE, LCP, CPL, 3SG. And you're walking along the street and you see a boy with a SSG/MSG rank... and pride creeps in and you wonder, what the hell did he do to get that rank? Yes its just NCC but in your head, the rank structure and procedure to get it is already instilled in there.
I may speak for some, NOT ALL... but if you look at the big picture, many may say they hate the SAF... but at the end of it all, most are quiet patriotic and proud singaporean men who haven't really looked inside them... they may have hated it, but it has given them pride in something they have done which some never have the chance to experience, the pride of saying "I've been through it, the training, the exercises and the tons of sh|t". -
well said. i totally understand what u mean. sometimes i felt that way too.
but come to think of it, we are paid for the rank we get, while NCC might have rank up to MSG, but they are not paid any money and they don't hold any responsiblities of a MSG. -
I was in NCC (Land) during my sec school days, and like kopiosatu mentioned, we were wearing the temasek green uniform those days. Most of us would change out of the uniform after the activity on Saturdays.
To align with the SAF, NCC decided to change to the camo uniform. Conveniently, they wear the uniform out of school as it is not that different from that in the SAF. This is where the problem lies, they are not aware that being in the uniform and the way that they behave will create a certain impression to the general public.
Do you see NPCC cadets wearing their full uniforms and hanging around shopping centers? Most of the time, they change their tops. -
yup i was in npcc b4. we r not allowed to wear the top uniform when going home. we aso not allowed to wear the boots home...
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For the record, MINDEF has promoted closer ties between the school units & SAF formations under the NCC 21 Masterplan (from, I believe, 1998 or 1999 onwards). It's already a milestone to see your HQ being located inside Amoy Quee camp, as my recce team saw when we last drove around inside there.
I don't deny such uniformed school-cadets being better physically & mentally prepared for military service for the various branches. You guys do have a headstart for the Best PT or Best Marksmanship awards, if not Best Soldier, during BMT. That said, it's not an entitlement &, if anything, it's also a tradition for BMT instuctors to accentuate the NCC as an antithesis instead - i.e. that Tekong is the "real deal", & not just an extra-curricular activity. If a recuit has the quality, he'll naturally emerge past the tekan-ing.
The other negativity the average SAF soldier has for the NCC counterpart is - as evidently suggested by the posts here - the common sharing of the camoflague uniforms. On the one hand, IMO we haven't quite moved on from the generation that still sees the school cadets in Temasek Green. On the other, it's also downright off-putting to see a lot of cadets-in-uniforms lack an military cutting or bearing: from haircuts (touching collar or ear or past eyebrow), to appropriately-folded sleeves (for smart No #4), to the dragging of boots, to even opening up an umbrella when raining (try doing that in front of a grouchy RSM)!
You can't really blame our NSF's either, cuz the armed-forces culture everywhere is such that you have to toil to initially earn the PTE rank, otherwise recruits wouldn't need the POP parade. Believe me, you'll feel the same affront after you've gone through your own BMT, with proper SAF indoctrination & eradication of "civilian" habits.
[FYI I don't mind 16-year olds with "senior NCO" rank as much - it certainly beats the NPCC or scout version with one arm massively overloaded with badges & awards!] -
Appendum: The NCC/Temasek Green days also saw an arguably stricter sense of military dress. The shirts had to be starched (sometimes overstarched to the extent that white streaks showed post-ironing) & tucked in, the belt buckles must be well-polished, the trousers suitably tailored if they're too loose, & the boots spit-shined. In fact, so prevalent was the fear of premature apparel wrinkling that the cadets preferred bringing them to school in hangers - & only wear them prior to forming up.
The desired effect was mostly cosmetic, but the resultant "kilat" impression also signal to the rest of the school - as well as the general public - how dedicated the cadets were on individual sense of discipline & decorum.
Of course, it's usually mothers who ended up ironing the uniforms ~lol~ but I think the emphasis on primp attire also permitted many bonding sessions between the different secondary batches on late-afternoon, post-ECA Saturdays. It's during those occasions that tips on personal maintainence were passed down - eg. lightly Kiwi-ing the boots after cleaning 'em - & ditto the more bawdy cadences/songs.
Thereafter everyone headed straight home. By contrast, nowadays you see occasional baggy-attired NCC cadets from neighborhood schools hanging out in town centers during the early evening. -
You sounds like you are from NCCOriginally posted by Moxie:[FYI I don't mind 16-year olds with "senior NCO" rank as much - it certainly beats the NPCC or scout version with one arm massively overloaded with badges & awards!] -
No offences to you but I have known one ex-CLT in Tekong and he is rather a cocky guy.Originally posted by Prestroz:Hi guys, I'm a Cadet Lieutenant (CLT) from the NCC, its has been inevitable that I was laugh at by those SAF guys when I was in uniform... Seriously, I was puzzled by it, should'nt NCC be considered as the younger counterparts of the SAF?? , furthermore, the NCC has produced various talents that is currently holding key appointment in the SAF (1/4 of senior officers holding the rank of major and above are former NCC cadets, Chief Of Navy RADM Ronnie Tay and Chief SAF Medical Corps BG Wong Yue Sie are also former NCC cadets). Just interested to know the perceptions of you guys... pls share, thanks.... -
Well said.Especially about the part that we may all hate the Army but deep inside, we will protect what we own when the first round hits the ground.Perhaps we hate the negative things more , which accentuates the deep feeling of resentment in the way the organization is run.I chuckle when I see kids with the large rank boards of MSG and they look too scrawny for the uniform.Apparently they like to be seen in it but they cannot make it look professional.Why don't they change out to casual wear after CCA?That's one question thats making me quite curious.When you've served nearly your whole NSF term, you know how weary the feeling is, when you've got CO parades, the need to iron your uniforms and polish your boots.And you see these fellows parading around like clowns, you can't help but feel like you want to wake up their ideas.I've seen CLTs hanging around town in their NO.3 uniform, trying so hard to look glam.Please.Have some sense, when you enlist, you'll have a very different mentality.Originally posted by kopiosatu:that's the thing... we take pride in the uniform, though many don't admit to it. but you do feel smarter compared to the sloppyness we see, and the first thing that comes to mind is, COMPARISON.
and why compare? because the SAF makes us do things a certain way, we follow. We know the standard required. we look at them wear the uniform, totally not up to standard. you see their behaviour, its out of line when wearing that uniform. people compare because humans like to see what is better. Why do we compare? because of pride of wat we have.
Another thing, maybe you see a NCC cadet, higher rank than you... first thing that comes to your mind? "so young rank so high", yes i know its NCC. But going through the military, you know the value of the ranks. So once again, pride comes in. People go through bmt, exercises... and they get PTE, LCP, CPL, 3SG. And you're walking along the street and you see a boy with a SSG/MSG rank... and pride creeps in and you wonder, what the hell did he do to get that rank? Yes its just NCC but in your head, the rank structure and procedure to get it is already instilled in there.
I may speak for some, NOT ALL... but if you look at the big picture, many may say they hate the SAF... but at the end of it all, most are quiet patriotic and proud singaporean men who haven't really looked inside them... they may have hated it, but it has given them pride in something they have done which some never have the chance to experience, the pride of saying "I've been through it, the training, the exercises and the tons of sh|t". -
That's right u will get sick & tired of it liao haha...Originally posted by LazerLordz:Well said.Especially about the part that we may all hate the Army but deep inside, we will protect what we own when the first round hits the ground.Perhaps we hate the negative things more , which accentuates the deep feeling of resentment in the way the organization is run.I chuckle when I see kids with the large rank boards of MSG and they look too scrawny for the uniform.Apparently they like to be seen in it but they cannot make it look professional.Why don't they change out to casual wear after CCA?That's one question thats making me quite curious.When you've served nearly your whole NSF term, you know how weary the feeling is, when you've got CO parades, the need to iron your uniforms and polish your boots.And you see these fellows parading around like clowns, you can't help but feel like you want to wake up their ideas.I've seen CLTs hanging around town in their NO.3 uniform, trying so hard to look glam.Please.Have some sense, when you enlist, you'll have a very different mentality. -
Well,as a SSG in my unit,I can swear to you guys this.I lead by example,and on numerous occasions got into conflict with the friggin CO as he is WELFARE No.1,SLACKNESS No.2 type.
Why do I say I lead by example?I keep my hair short,no touching neck,no sideburns.No gel/cream so on during Parade.After parade,I keep my uniform on,but I have never ever worn it to look glam.But I wear it with pride,as I'm proud to don on the uniform of the Singapore Armed Forces.
So,to all NSF,Regulars and so on,please spare a thought for the CLTs and NCOs,as we try hard to keep to the SAF standards.But its now due to the CO and teacher officers inabilty and false perception of how we carry ourselves.To be real honest,a male 2LT. teacher officer who recently joined my unit was reminded by the CO that we are just a CCA and not a military unit when he scolded and pumped the cadets for draggin their boots,so tell me how can professionalism be practiced?
Pardon me,but I do have to agree that the current NCC is no longer holding on to the respect and digninty we use to wield.
**(Please note that NPCC cadets do not wear their uniforms outside school or Police Academy as they may be mistaken as SPF officers on duty when they are outside,so if anything happens,they will also kena.)**