Heard of Enyouth?
-
sorry ..Originally posted by sonic_16:did u see me there?? heehhee
never seen u there..
anyway...
can help us by showing any proof that MLM is LEGAL ???
thank a lot. -
Originally posted by dong dong mau:
It is under achieving is not becos of you but because MLM will never never reach it what it ever promised even without me!!! Only spastic idiot like you will believe that MLM will work in Singapore, if it will work, it will work in year 2000 when it is first legalised!!! Use your head and think!!!! This can show that you never do any full analysis of the MLM and come out to talk rubbish to me, shut up if you know nuts about MLM!!!
[b] If there is any reason why it is under achieving then i have to think that the reason is you. Pal, non of the teacher promise me success i also studied. But never i don't care anyway. The thing is, did he not pay you anyway?? If yes pls clarify. Pls clarify if i am wrong. There is no basic pay in network marketing in any of the coy. If there is a case where you don't recieve a payout, that would means that you are not competent enough. You sound like you work in Enyouth before. Pls let us know if the boss did not pay out at all. Thanks.
[/b] -
Hey hey.... Liquidsnake, is age catching up on u? i realised u get agitated very fast lehz.... y all ur replies got so many '!!!!!!' one??Originally posted by Liquidsnake:It is under achieving is not becos of you but because MLM will never never reach it what it ever promised even without me!!! Only spastic idiot like you will believe that MLM will work in Singapore, if it will work, it will work in year 2000 when it is first legalised!!! Use your head and think!!!! This can show that you never do any full analysis of the MLM and come out to talk rubbish to me, shut up if you know nuts about MLM!!!
cool ya....?! to each his own ma... u anti mlm u got commission ar? y so aggressive?
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hmm... MLM is not e only path for moonlighting ma....so tt means all those regulars who set up biz out side, doing insurance, or property etc also found loophole in Singapore laws system? To my knowledge, some warrant officers i know of are doing it.... not MLM.Originally posted by spycampers:but just follow the golden rule..
DO ANYTHING, BUT DUN GET CAUGHT!
ENyouth use SMART shoppers cards or whatever to register regular name in their company..
so to avoid the regulars to get caught..
THE HOLES i MEANT is..
since ey know the SDM is regular..
BUT still let him join Enyouth company.
as they have this HOLE - the smart shopper cards... or whatever...
to register him.. and can be able to pay him.
so EY should have find hole in singapore laws system..
If MLM is illegal. -
ya.. i also know other side line... not only MLM.Originally posted by +Genie-:hmm... MLM is not e only path for moonlighting ma....so tt means all those regulars who set up biz out side, doing insurance, or property etc also found loophole in Singapore laws system? To my knowledge, some warrant officers i know of are doing it.... not MLM.
there also worst case..
bookies.. runner.. etc..
loophole ..yes..
biz... they register company under wife .. father .. mother .. etc..
insurance and property..
me got one regular.. who combine with some one not in the force.
they share the profits.
and.. about WO who do sideline..
doesn't meant that it OKIE to sideline..
Are u telling me that what WO do..
whether if it break the laws is LEGAL??
and of course.. there are loophole in singapore laws system..
just that government tends to close one eye..
take the most simple example that government is closing eye...
do u know that by singapore laws..
more than 4 (or was it 5 ) people gather together can be consider as illegal gathering??
but do u see police really catch people for doing that?? -
Originally posted by spycampers:
I shall not waste anymore of my time talking about the legality of mlm in sg.
i agree i not very senior person in this industry...
my friend last time in NOP. 10+ years back...
me only into it in 2006..
anyway..go to share this webbie with u.
http://www.dsas.org.sg/dsas/Html/afterlogin.htm
or
http://www.dsas.org.sg
check under singapore laws.
[b]
1. This Act may be cited as the Multi-Level Marketing and Pyramid Selling (Prohibition) Act.
Unlawful to promote or participate in, or hold out that person is promoting or participating in, pyramid selling scheme or arrangement
3. (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to promote or participate in a multi-level marketing scheme or arrangement or a pyramid selling scheme or arrangement or to hold out that he is promoting or participating in such a scheme or arrangement.
(2) Any person who contravenes subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $200,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.
[/b]
Since you're in dsas website, which is legal, perhaps you'll like to enlighten why the 20 odd members in it are doing mlm. Perhaps you can call police to report the members in dsas as according to you, they're illegal.
Cheers. -
kana bluff down by a friend saying he's going to receive some award on stage.Originally posted by spycampers:sorry ..
never seen u there..
anyway...
can help us by showing any proof that MLM is LEGAL ???
thank a lot.
I'll summarised the Act for you. MLM ===> Legal. Pyramid selling ===>illegal.
And pls refer to my previous post for more on the legality to think about.
And btw, Stephanie, EY's GM, Raymond Lim's wife, was then secretary of DSAS to then chariman Ben Tan when dsas was first setup. -
I dun dare to use the word.Originally posted by sonic_16:I shall not waste anymore of my time talking about the legality of mlm in sg.
Since you're in dsas website, which is legal, perhaps you'll like to enlighten why the 20 odd members in it are doing mlm. Perhaps you can call police to report the members in dsas as according to you, they're illegal.
Cheers.
enlighten.
but for my 1 cents worth of thought...
EY and other mlm companies have cover their backside well.
another things is
u see a group of ah beng and ah lian..
hanging out in the void deck...
talk cock sing song..
police man. walk by... didn't do anything.
will u go call police and tell him that it consider illegal gathering??? -
Unlawful to promote or participate in, or hold out that person is promoting or participating in, pyramid selling scheme or arrangementOriginally posted by sonic_16:kana bluff down by a friend saying he's going to receive some award on stage.
I'll summarised the Act for you. MLM ===> Legal. Pyramid selling ===>illegal.
And pls refer to my previous post for more on the legality to think about.
And btw, Stephanie, EY's GM, Raymond Lim's wife, was then secretary of DSAS to then chariman Ben Tan when dsas was first setup.
3. (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to promote or participate in a multi-level marketing scheme or arrangement or a pyramid selling scheme or arrangement or to hold out that he is promoting or participating in such a scheme or arrangement.
Am i seeing things??
i think the one i bold out is saiding MLM..
anyway...
since u been to EY..
does the people there tell u that they are doing MLM or SLM??? -
Originally posted by spycampers:
wah lau ye, you know how to read law doc a not? It's not be read as a whole not individual statement. The bold part you quote is under section
Unlawful to promote or participate in, or hold out that person is promoting or participating in, pyramid selling scheme or arrangement
3. (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to promote or participate in a [b]multi-level marketing scheme or arrangement or a pyramid selling scheme or arrangement or to hold out that he is promoting or participating in such a scheme or arrangement.
Am i seeing things??
i think the one i bold out is saiding MLM..
anyway...
since u been to EY..
does the people there tell u that they are doing MLM or SLM???
[/b]
Unlawful to promote or participate in, or hold out that person is promoting or participating in, pyramid selling scheme or arrangement ...so everything discussed under this section refers to pyramid selling, which is illegal.
Do you have AIA insurance policies? The older ones that comes in a dark red cover style, where the pages stick together? Go read that.
SLM/MLM same lah, all rubbish. SLM is not recognised by dsas under separate category. MLM is MLM. How your marketing plan is formulated does not influence what kind of mlm it is. There are a wide array of plans across industy. binaries, matrix, slm etc etc. -
Originally posted by sonic_16:
Is it??
wah lau ye, you know how to read law doc a not? It's not be read as a whole not individual statement. The bold part you quote is under section [b]
Unlawful to promote or participate in, or hold out that person is promoting or participating in, pyramid selling scheme or arrangement ...so everything discussed under this section refers to pyramid selling, which is illegal.
Do you have AIA insurance policies? The older ones that comes in a dark red cover style, where the pages stick together? Go read that.
SLM/MLM same lah, all rubbish. SLM is not recognised by dsas under separate category. MLM is MLM. How your marketing plan is formulated does not influence what kind of mlm it is. There are a wide array of plans across industy. binaries, matrix, slm etc etc.
[/b]
maybe i not a law person..
so u meant this line is invalid right??
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to promote or participate in a multi-level marketing scheme
and this line
This Act may be cited as the Multi-Level Marketing and Pyramid Selling (Prohibition) Act
should be read as
This Act may be cited as the Pyramid Selling (Prohibition) Act -
It is very good that we stay informed regarding the laws and regulations. However, we must try to stay abreast with the latest laws and not inevitably mislead readers when we share only part of the facts.
The Multi-Level Marketing and Pyramid Selling (Excluded Schemes and Arrangements) Order 2000 came into operation on 01 June 2000.
It states the following:-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excluded schemes and arrangements
2. -- (1) The definition of "pyramid selling scheme or arrangement" in section 2 of the Act shall be taken not to include any of the following schemes or arrangements:
(a)any scheme or arrangement comprising insurance business, or any class of insurance business, so long as ........
(b)any master franschise scheme or arrangement, or any class of such scheme or arrangement......
(c)any scheme or arrangement, or any class of such schemes or arrangements, which satisfies the following terms and conditions:
(i) a person shall not be required to provide any benefit or acquire any commodity in order to participate in the schemes or arrangement, other than the purchase of a sales demonstration equipment or materials....
(ii) any benefit received -
(A) by any promoter of, or participant in, the scheme or arrangement accrues as a result of the sale ....... of a commodity to any other person;
...... etc etc...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically the Exclusion Order, as it has become to be known as, amended the existing Act to exclude legitimate MLM businesses that follows the governance and in effect "legitimize" the running of acceptable MLM businesses in Singapore. If you look at the Exclusion Order as a whole, you will notice that it also addresses the other schemes such as master franchise and insurance businesses that follow similar models as MLM.
Due to the existing MLM Act, such revisions to include such schemes as insurance and the franchise as legal were required. At the same time, the issue of legitimizing MLM was also tackled as the govertment put in place proper terms and conditions that businesses MUST adhere to in order to operate the MLM business here.
You can check out the ACt and Exclsuion Order from the www.mti.gov.sg under the "Legislation" part. There is even an FAQ to help people understand the difference between illegal pyramids and mlms. -
Originally posted by spycampers:
If you want to quote quote everything. Pls mention about the exclusion right that DSAS have. I read your post and link. Thanks for the link anyway. This forum is for you to put what you feel and not hide the truth.
i agree i not very senior person in this industry...
my friend last time in NOP. 10+ years back...
me only into it in 2006..
anyway..go to share this webbie with u.
http://www.dsas.org.sg/dsas/Html/afterlogin.htm
or
http://www.dsas.org.sg
check under singapore laws.
[b]
1. This Act may be cited as the Multi-Level Marketing and Pyramid Selling (Prohibition) Act.
Unlawful to promote or participate in, or hold out that person is promoting or participating in, pyramid selling scheme or arrangement
3. (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to promote or participate in a multi-level marketing scheme or arrangement or a pyramid selling scheme or arrangement or to hold out that he is promoting or participating in such a scheme or arrangement.
(2) Any person who contravenes subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $200,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.
[/b] -
I thought we are here to state our view. The more you call people idiot, the more you are. Unless youy know me if not... What makes you think that my friends did not come in at the year after 2002. And they are great achiever. Althought i may not be like them. But they indeed made it. Then again i think it will be people like you that made the industry like that. HaOriginally posted by Liquidsnake:It is under achieving is not becos of you but because MLM will never never reach it what it ever promised even without me!!! Only spastic idiot like you will believe that MLM will work in Singapore, if it will work, it will work in year 2000 when it is first legalised!!! Use your head and think!!!! This can show that you never do any full analysis of the MLM and come out to talk rubbish to me, shut up if you know nuts about MLM!!! -
Originally posted by spycampers:
Skycamper. Quote the whole para. and stop your rubbish. This is not the way the statement quote and stop the void deck ah beng thingy. Very no link and make us look so childish here. Thanks
Is it??
maybe i not a law person..
so u meant this line is invalid right??
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to promote or participate in a [b]multi-level marketing scheme
and this line
This Act may be cited as the Multi-Level Marketing and Pyramid Selling (Prohibition) Act
should be read as
This Act may be cited as the Pyramid Selling (Prohibition) Act
[/b] -
Thanks helpdesk. This is what i am trying to refer. But SKY CAMPER is reading what he thinks is right only. But although this is legal, why people so negative towards it???Originally posted by helpdesk^^:It is very good that we stay informed regarding the laws and regulations. However, we must try to stay abreast with the latest laws and not inevitably mislead readers when we share only part of the facts.
The Multi-Level Marketing and Pyramid Selling (Excluded Schemes and Arrangements) Order 2000 came into operation on 01 June 2000.
It states the following:-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excluded schemes and arrangements
2. -- (1) The definition of "pyramid selling scheme or arrangement" in section 2 of the Act shall be taken not to include any of the following schemes or arrangements:
(a)any scheme or arrangement comprising insurance business, or any class of insurance business, so long as ........
(b)any master franschise scheme or arrangement, or any class of such scheme or arrangement......
(c)any scheme or arrangement, or any class of such schemes or arrangements, which satisfies the following terms and conditions:
(i) a person shall not be required to provide any benefit or acquire any commodity in order to participate in the schemes or arrangement, other than the purchase of a sales demonstration equipment or materials....
(ii) any benefit received -
(A) by any promoter of, or participant in, the scheme or arrangement accrues as a result of the sale ....... of a commodity to any other person;
...... etc etc...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically the Exclusion Order, as it has become to be known as, amended the existing Act to exclude legitimate MLM businesses that follows the governance and in effect "legitimize" the running of acceptable MLM businesses in Singapore. If you look at the Exclusion Order as a whole, you will notice that it also addresses the other schemes such as master franchise and insurance businesses that follow similar models as MLM.
Due to the existing MLM Act, such revisions to include such schemes as insurance and the franchise as legal were required. At the same time, the issue of legitimizing MLM was also tackled as the govertment put in place proper terms and conditions that businesses MUST adhere to in order to operate the MLM business here.
You can check out the ACt and Exclsuion Order from the www.mti.gov.sg under the "Legislation" part. There is even an FAQ to help people understand the difference between illegal pyramids and mlms. -
I scold u idiot becos u are just one! I dont give a damn abot your friend becoming great achiever or wat, that is none of my concern! that is him and not you!!! The industry will never acheived what it promised to be not becos of me or whoever becos it is just so!!! Even without me in this world, it will still be the same!!! You better shut up and stop talking like you are a mlm guru or so. Talk to me if you are in 5 years in mlm and earn more than 500k commissions within 2 years in sales! If you are not, you are not even fit to talk to my hand!Originally posted by dong dong mau:I thought we are here to state our view. The more you call people idiot, the more you are. Unless youy know me if not... What makes you think that my friends did not come in at the year after 2002. And they are great achiever. Althought i may not be like them. But they indeed made it. Then again i think it will be people like you that made the industry like that. Ha -
Originally posted by Liquidsnake:I scold u idiot becos u are just one! I dont give a damn abot your friend becoming great achiever or wat, that is none of my concern! that is him and not you!!! The industry will never acheived what it promised to be not becos of me or whoever becos it is just so!!! Even without me in this world, it will still be the same!!! You better shut up and stop talking like you are a mlm guru or so. Talk to me if you are in 5 years in mlm and earn more than 500k commissions within 2 years in sales! If you are not, you are not even fit to talk to my hand!
-
you are just a DM at most la... DM Dave. I think anyone qualify to talk to u ...Originally posted by dong dong mau: -
dm dave?? dunno who...never meet before....or did you left long long time ago?? i only know some of the current people....my friend win hong's group...Originally posted by dong dong mau:you are just a DM at most la... DM Dave. I think anyone qualify to talk to u ... -
I am actually showing what i think to sonic_16.Originally posted by dong dong mau:Skycamper. Quote the whole para. and stop your rubbish. This is not the way the statement quote and stop the void deck ah beng thingy. Very no link and make us look so childish here. Thanks
that why i only quote what is neccessory...
don't u find that u are the only person who complain about me
who quote half a para??? -
U are only guessing people identity.Originally posted by dong dong mau:you are just a DM at most la... DM Dave. I think anyone qualify to talk to u ...
anyway... even if he is SDM ..anyone is also qualify.
if u are a customer.. or some one who want to complain... -
-
4 alphabets.....SORE.......(hahahaha)Originally posted by Liquidsnake:I scold u idiot becos u are just one! I dont give a damn abot your friend becoming great achiever or wat, that is none of my concern! that is him and not you!!! The industry will never acheived what it promised to be not becos of me or whoever becos it is just so!!! Even without me in this world, it will still be the same!!! You better shut up and stop talking like you are a mlm guru or so. Talk to me if you are in 5 years in mlm and earn more than 500k commissions within 2 years in sales! If you are not, you are not even fit to talk to my hand!
The only reason why this industry won't make it is probably because of the Singaporeans mentality and not because of this type of marketing strategy.
____________________________________________________________
Franchise - Investing in a system that proves or seems to be profitable. (EG: Macdonalds, 7-11, Sakae Sushi ...etc)
Franchise is part of MLM too. If you go to BelAir, they will tell you that they way they conduct their business is just like the above. You pay a certain amount of money to purchase their products and *ta da*, you are so call one of their franchisee. (hahahaha)
__________________________________________________________
Direct marketing - Is a sub-discipline of marketing focused on driving purchases that can be attributed to a specific "call-to-action". Direct marketing's history in Europe can be traced to the 15th century. It is attractive to many marketers, because in many cases its effectiveness can be measured directly.
Yakult, Vitagen, Walls ice cream, Insurance, Property, Car, Banks...etc, all uses direct marketing. More and more corporate companies will be using the above strategy to gain more attention and solicitate more business as it has proven to be more effective than other sorts.
______________________________________________________________
Compensation Plan - Its just how you are being reimbursed for your efforts.
_____________________________________________________________
In short, you join a company, helping them to sell their products. Just like any lucrative sales job (eg: sell car, sell insurance, sell property...etc) you are not entitled to basic pay. You sell a product, they give you high commission ( in this instance, the comm plan) and you close sales. The more people you recruit, the more people help you to close sales, the more comm you have. Business logic.
Hard work = Money
Of course, in between, how they conduct their business is than up to individuals. Each individual is responsible for how they conduct their business, be it ethical or not.
That's why we have so many goverment regulating bodies around.
And lastly, just to add. When it comes to product refund, i think its very normal, that when you try to refund a product, the salesperson will always try to convince you against it. Try doing this to your just bought insurance policy, property, or even OSIM chair. See what response you get. But in the end, these people who bought from EY did got their refund.
As long as you are in the service industry, its roughly the same everywhere. -
You're welcomed. Actually, even with this amendment to the existing Act, there were quite a number of confused citizens over the matter. So much so that the government eventually released a further amendment in 2001 to clarify the matter. If any of you are really interested in knowing the legality issues of mlm, you could read the FAQ on the MTI website as I mentioned in the previous post.Originally posted by dong dong mau:Thanks helpdesk. This is what i am trying to refer. But SKY CAMPER is reading what he thinks is right only. But although this is legal, why people so negative towards it???
Attached is the FAQ on the amendment that came into effect on 01 Jan 2002:-
What were the amendments made in 2001 to the Exclusion Order?
The Exclusion Order 2001 continued to maintain that insurance companies and master franchises would be excluded from the MLM Act.
However, it also introduced the following rules for direct selling companies:
Safeguards - A participant cannot be required to provide any benefit or acquire any commodity in order to become a participant in the scheme, other than the purchase of demonstration equipment which is not for resale, at no more than cost price and for which no commission can be given out. A legitimate multi-level marketing scheme would not impose a financial risk on salespersons. For example, salespersons should be entitled to full refunds, under reasonable commercial terms, for any inventories kept or purchased by them which are not sold to end consumers, so long as the inventories are returned within a period of 60 days.
Behavioural checks - The companies must not misrepresent the scheme as get-rich-quick opportunities, and should not use fraud, coercion, harassment, or unconscionable means to force people to join the scheme. Instead, the companies should focus their efforts on promoting the quality and features of the products. If a company wishes to show potential participants the earning potential, they must keep records of the maximum, minimum, mean, mode and median earnings of their salespeople in the past.
Sharing of commission - It is all right for a salesperson to share commissions from several layers of salespersons recruited by him. However, such commissions must be generated by sale of the product or service in question, and not through the recruitment of additional participants into the scheme.
Hope the above throws more light into this on-going discussion about the legalities of mlm companies operating in Singapore.