Venture Era - a defending point of view.
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HI there all.
I came across this forum and I think I have to address something important. I am in Venture Era and is quite suprised at all the accusations from it. First, I apologise if I strike any nerves. Secondly, its just in human nature to defend what we believe. So here goes nothing:
Firstly, here are some allegations in Venture Era
1) Brain-washing MLM/Network Marketing Company
1.1) Hypocrites
2) Waste alot of time and money
2.1) One year, no money
2.2) Students drop-out
2.3) Recruit people, pull people, sell people product.
3) Attachments not given allowance
4) Magnetic Therapy product a fraud/ Water product a fraud
Well there are more. But Ill list as I go on. Firstly I address what company Venture Era is. Yes it is a Network Marketing Company that is in the "MLM" enterprise. Whats the difference? depends on which website you go to or what book you read. Some says Network Marketing is the same as MLM, others says they are different. Well, the basic roots of them, bothe MLM and Network Marketing give people the opputunity to be Independent Distributors. Simple as that.
Let me address the issues surrounding this forums.
1) Brain-washing
Alot of people claim that VE brainwash pple through numerous things. Their "all smiles" face, their "hypocritical" nature, their "phone techniques" in conning pple to come down to be "recruited" etc. Well, to answer to this, I put a view at your hand.
Bill Gates, when he started Microsoft, many pple laughed at him that he was ridiculous in his claim that Microsoft will be a worldwide business one day. Religious people that ever walked earth such as Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna were one way or another insulted, claimed by enemies that they used "brainwashing" techniques to convert people, they showed false compassion like "all smiles". Political leaders, organizations, activists etc. all were given the similar taint of people.
All these people, in the end, one way or another succeeded in spreading their vision and belief round the world wheter creating enemies or not. I am not saying VE is a political group, relicous group, activist or anything, but my point is, "brainwashing" is a misintepreted concept that lives in the blood of humans. "Brainwashing" for the bad such as asking people to commit homocide, commit theft is of course bad. "Brainwashing" for the good such as "lets all smile and welcome anyone with open arms" is definately good. But both can be hypocritical. Now thats were the next argument comes.
Hypocrites. "All smiles and welcome" but then, ask me to lie to my aunt that I am under her block and wish to come up for a visit in 10 mins. Just FOR A VISIT. And then I take out my sales kit and present.....all too familiar? Well, truth to be told, I do not condone in such activity but this is a simple fact. VENTURE ERA does not encourage lies and deceit. But however, Venture Era CANNOT CONTROL lies and deceit. Why? because it all depends who your leader, manager, upline is. Some are good and honest in their ways, some are tricky and deceptive, my point being; EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD, whatever good, there is always someone, or a group of people whom always like to do things the dishonest way. They can still gain success, but what outcomes their reputation? Mob of angry people (such as those in the forum) who hates Venture Era and their leaders. Well, touch your heart and ask yourself, if all these people are bad, there is not even ONE honest person in Venture Era? Taking it from me, if you believe or not, there are more honest leaders than deceptive ones. Simply said, my group teaches me to do my phone techniques this way “Aunt, I’ll be around your area later, possible for me to come up and bring my friend around. I have some business to show you. Excited about it. Tell me what you think.” So am I teaching bad things? Is Venture Era hypocritical? J Answer: Venture Era is not. But it could be some are. Even some parents tell their kids if they are naughty, Santa will not give them presents. You get what I mean? It is deceptive, but it does not mean that the kid will grow up to hate his parents and murder them.
2) Waste a lot of time and money
I do not have to say much about this except, a few simple facts. This is a BUSINESS! If you don’t know what a business is, educate yourself first about it. Why oh WHY are people wasting 5 years, no money to run a business. Because running a business is like creating a money-making machine. Except creating it take a lot of hard work and hard times in the beginning. Some people might argue, yea, in the “beginning” I know it would be hard, but not as long as 4 months!! Here is one simple truth. You are a person who is studying, at the same at night you run your business for 3 hours then you go home to do your homework. Weekends you spent full days at your business. Your network is limited because you are 18 and you are jus 18 YEARS ON EARTH. You struggle to see results. 4, 5 months you are still stuck. You finally decide to quit. Sounds familiar again? Well, I can quote many examples but, my point being, when I chose to run a business, or a network marketing business, I told myself even though I am not paid for 3 years, I will still learn the trait and not give up. Why did I tell myself that? Because that is why I chose to run a business. I want to suffer 3 years, gain exposure, experience, network, business skills (LIKE SELLING!), leadership skills before I can finally earn mega-bucks. Simply said, the more you want to earn in the future, the more time you wave to spent on your business in the beginning and HOW YOU SPENT IT! NOT WASTE IT! Compare a student to a full-time 28 year old person? Definitely the 28 year-old person would excel faster. Why? Bigger network, much more matured, no time commitments etc. But that does not mean the 28 year old does not have his disadvantages. Simply, he started late, he will retire late. So catch my point? Anyway, spending money is a must in business. Yes you have to take care of your food and transportations. It’s a price you must pay at first but it’s a price well worth it.
I also want to address students dropping out to do Venture Era. 3 kinds of people; 1) Do Venture Era quite some time, already earning quite a substaintial amount of money, then he quits school. 2) Saw the business plan, got “brainwashed” by the upline to quit school, and he quits. 3) Parents and family struggling financially and he thought Venture Era would be a great help. He decided to quit school to support the family. Do people drop out of school. Yes. But it can be in many ways and many reasons. That is personal and it isn’t wrong. Decisions made can only be blamed on oneself. For example, the person on example 1 definitely BELIEVES strongly in VE because of the income he has already created for himself till he analyses tt not even a PHD can outclass what he is earning. He has his basis, he quits school. Some people will think he is stupid others will think he is smart. Bill Gates would think he is smart cause Bill Gates did exactly that. His mum wouldn’t. Example 2, the person has not seen much success but is too over-whelmed by the upline, or impressed, or obsessed, whatever, and he decides to quit school. Its his basis. Some people will think he is stupid others will think he is smart, again. This time Thomas Edison would think he is smart, because Thomas Edison rather spent his time on something he believed in that in school. Example 3, the person also have not seen himself successful, but believes in his own will and courage that no matter what, he WILL BE THERE and would work hard to help his family. Again, some people will think he is stupid others will think he is smart. My POINT IS, wherever you go, whatever you do, do not judge people base on yourself. If you think giving up school for an opportunity is stupid, that is STUPID FOR YOU. But could be a breakthough for others. Simply put, there are many in Venture Era who are still in school, but who still made it well even though in school some even gotten their BMW and whopping income. I am a student. I am earning. But I left just 6 more months till school end. Its my believe that I should just finish school. Its MY OWN believe.
Recruiting and sales to your relatives. Another widely feared misconception of people. Especially those new to Network Marketing. Now this I am not defending Venture Era but I am defending the whole MLM industry. Simple, this form of marketing has been such a breakthough that it has creates a lot of millionaires round the world. I put it this way, lets take a guy name John and Trish as an example. John knows that running a business is a way to great wealth (if you do not know that already, that learn what is Fortune 500 and look at “richest people in the world” category). He also does not like the idea of a boss and working strictly by the time rules (eg. 8 to 5pm). He opens a restaurant, invested 200k at a popular area. His first few people that he invited are NOT HIS RELATIVES or FRIENDS. In fact, he was afraid to do that. He just waited for people to come to his restaurant throwing more money for advertising. In the end, he took 4 years to break even and eventually started earning average of 12k per month. Second person, Trish. She too opens her own restaurant. She decided not to get a popular location and a small restaurant for a start because she only had 10k to start with. She invited her friends and relatives to her place and of course she cannot give them free (or she would go bankrupt). But they give her plenty of advise, encouragement, tips, contacts, referrals (telling their friends about her place) and also some discouraged her saying she should study and not waste time cause she would take a very long time to gain money. She persevered (because she knows what is business) and in the same time, 4 years, she broke even and earned 12k every month. She is just 25 then. Still young and energetic. Catch my point? The point is, it doesn’t matter HOW YOU DO THE BUSINESS. Venture Era gives you the easiest and most safest, low-cost ways to do your marketing. The Networking style. You pay no cent to market like this. You use the power of leverage. You reap your gains. Now, you might also be John and invest 200k into your business and advertise your products or services. Trust me, that way would work too but do you have 200k? Now Trish’s job is much harder, trust me. But its all good in the end. Now MLM or Network Marketing encourages people to sell their products to their relatives and bring your friends in and they in turn sell to their relatives and as such creates a powerful leveraging effect. The question is, if the product is not a fraud, there is not reason that is WRONG way of marketing. I think it is perfect. Not satisfied? Read the internet and books and you will see top businessman round the world saying MLM would be the 21st century way of doing business.
3) No allowance on attachment
There was this case posted on the forum. In fact this was actually all solved a long time ago. The company has taken liable action against these history events and has all been resolved. The company was not at wrong. In fact, the students twisted the words of the management because the management did told them before they joined that this company gives no allowance. Only commission base on following the system. Many after seeing business is not a short-term thing, felt “cheated” and as such and started spreading to the school that the company did not pay them. It was all settled when the company took legal action against the students that the students were encouraged to go to other companies if they wanted “promised income”. All said, any reference to this matter have to just come down to 39 Robinson Road, 10 floor and speak directly to the management to show you the proof of these. I have a point here. There are many KIDS whom join VE also and its very hard for VE to give an education to all these “KIDS”. Those that are matured enough, understand the nature of the business. Those that are not, fall out and you can categorize them into 2. Those whom continue believing that business will never be their cup of tea OR those whom are so “angry” they try to flame forums and spread to their friends and family that VE is a fraud. CAD has no list of VE is a fraud and VE has appeared in the newspaper Berita Harian once to show its education to youngsters in business.
4) Magnetic Therapy product is all over the world as a revolutionary product. There are different kinds of them, mostly distributed by MLM companies and different effects. Venture Era has magnetic therapy systems too. I want to add one thing, go to google and type Bill Gates is a cult leader, Islam is a terrorist religion, Christianity is a terrorist reliogion (they are not, I emphasize, not to create any anger, I was just proving a point), Donald Trump is a fraud, G Bush is a devil, Osama is a rapist etc. Well, people claim what they BELIEVE. But these re just schools of thought. About Magnetic therapy, there are 2 schools of thought. One in Western Medicine (drugs) and the other in Natural/Alternative medicine. Obviously the 2 always are in constant war and magnetic therapy happens to be in the second. Its just how you are educated to believe in what you claim. You can be a doctor but you might have killed many people in the process due to anti-biotics. You might be a homeopath (itÂ’s a natural medicine) and you may have cause many to suffer in child birth. My point? Different people have different ideologies. Magnetic Therapy is proven to improve blood circulation and if you understand the importance of that you would know itÂ’s a wonderful product. Testimonials from real users? Millions worldwide. If Venture Era is not having a workable product, I donÂ’t think they can survive 5 years without being shut down. About the water system, I do not have to say much. It is one of SingaporeÂ’s more alkaline water. The products must be legitimate so as to allow a better marketing strategy. Venture Era will continue expanding their products range and it is still a young company. There is really nothing plasibo about magnetic therapy. Go for a thermo-scan and you can see your blood moving round your body.
All said, I conclude this. We have many competitors being a young but I proudly say, strong company. There are jealousy, dispute etc. but whatever company you work for in the future will have the same thing going on. Competition with other companies. Hence many of these other agents would do anything to tarnish the competitor’s image. This are my claims and if anyone would like to know more, or argue, whatsoever, feel free to PM me. I come in good to protect my company, one that has give me ample knowledge and income about business. I wish you all to not see this as bias because I have to protect my company. I hope this won’t make anymore flaming remarks. I also apologise for the long post. I’ll finish off by saying MLM/Network Marketing is not wrong. If you want to learn more abt something, learn from the best of that thing. If you want to know if being a scientist is interesting, read up about Einstein etc. not ask your friends or relatives. You can ask them, its not wrong, but you might not get the proper answers. For network marketing, few names; Tim Sales, Dr. Charles King. All the best, and YES, Venture Era do encourage new agents not to share AT FIRST to their love ones because, that’s where the danger lies. VE is just trying to tell you to run through the training first, know enough first for you and your leader to then head out there and tell your loved ones what you are doing. Cause a simple “NO! MLM IS SCAM” from a mother or girlfriend can make an aspirational entrepreneur make a mistake by calling his upline/manager the next morning saying “Im sorry to inform you. I chose not to join. I am pretty tied.”….again. Sounds familiar? J -
This is a long and nice post ~ I would say you defend your company well and i could feel your passion towards it.
But dun be happy first, cos there will surly be someone to shoot back your words
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Thnx. Well, so far, it seems fine. I'll be expecting though people "whacking" back. But it's common I guess. I am not inviting any, but I can't run away from it. All far from the truth, people are generally scared and insecure to "whack" head-on. They rather spread neativity around first to gain supporters on their vision and then kinda start flammatory remarks. Its like online gangsterism,
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I bet you know want would want to give me a one-on-one clarification on the matter. Thats whats wrong. People do not clarify. They accuse. Not all, some. Well, saying all this, I am inviting "whackers" so I better stop. haha
Corwin_2k -
Great post and cudos for standing behind your company
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Well, I have seen such post for the nth time, but they dont make sense anyway and I dont intend to point out for the nth time too
What I want to point out is, its disturbing to actually psycho yourself to think any differences in opinions amounts to 'whacking'.
To be truthful, MLM, whatever other names people like to call it, still remains a business. No doubt about it. You make appeals based on how attractive your products are or how good is your marketing plan.
To defend it like you would a cause, like anti-abortion, stop short of a publicity disaster. MLM industry is unique in a way because there is really no such really thing as MLMers and non-MLMers. You need to convert non-MLMers to your business and the last thing any businessman would do is to flame the public.
You are basically proving those who are against MLM right. -
Hey there everyone.
Honestly speaking, I really dont see how good Multi-Level Marketing can be. If they are really that good, why're the recruitment of employees always aimed at young teenagers?
That's because at a young age, youngsters are generally easier to be psychoed into doing such kinda business because most of them've not seen the world just as yet. Of course, an employee of Venture Era would definitely defend their company, who else wont if they are not loyal freaks to them?
Multi-Level Marketing is really not a industry good to work in because you make use of one another inside the industry. Imagine, you being recruited by your upline, work so hard to sell those I-dont-know-if-they-ever-can-be-trusted-products but have half your profits going to your upline and you not getting what you're supposed to get. Then you, recruiting others to do the same, sell the products and have half of their profits credited to you?
Let me explain why motivations & seminars're involved inside Venture Era. It's only there to project what's being done externally. You need people with high morale to sell the products. You need people with motivation to sell the products, You need people with faith in your products for sales. You need to brainwash people to trust your products.
Who would want to keep your company in low spirits? People wont've confidence to sell. You'll've no income. I heard that they often emphasise on hardwork and share their experience up the business ladder? Who're you kidding?
Can anyone account for whether what they've said's true? Who knows you might be boasting your figures & stuff? It's not a scam. But vicious attempts to push for sales.
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One question I would like to ask Venture Era people here.
I see a common trend inside every account of people who've visited Venture Era to find out what it's like inside.
Why is it that after you people promote and demonstrate the products inside that bloody office of you people, the manager must appear? To recruit people from their own customers? Pardon me lah, people. Why are you people soooo power-hungry? sooooo money-hungry? soooo authority-hungry? All for the sake of what? Promotion, promotion so that you people'll get MORE commission from you people's sales. I'm sure I'm not wrong about this.
Conclusion: Multi-Level Marketeers are just a bunch of people who have no life. The higher you get, the more money you get, the more people you make use of to get what you want. Often you people're ambitious to even talk about CARS.
http://www.venture-eragroup.com.sg. Really, check out their forums and you'll see much of the ugly side of them. 1st millionaire, type of cars they want. READ people. -
Hey there everyone.
[quote]Honestly speaking, I really dont see how good Multi-Level Marketing can be. If they are really that good, why're the recruitment of employees always aimed at young teenagers?
That's because at a young age, youngsters are generally easier to be psychoed into doing such kinda business because most of them've not seen the world just as yet. Of course, an employee of Venture Era would definitely defend their company, who else wont if they are not loyal freaks to them? [/quote]
DO your homework on the first 200 people who started DELL and you should know there were mostly average aged of 23. Is it wrong to be young? Does teenagers nowadays become so always labelled naïve? You strike a nerve. If you know what is BUSINESS, my friend, you would decide yourself what is right or wrong. Teenager does not equal “easily pychoed”. If you are trying to imply that, I do not know how DELL, AT&T, USANA have make it very big cause after research, their pioneers were relatively TEENAGERS. Simple, you join as a teenager, you have not enough skills to talk much but you HAVE to recruit people. You start by recruiting 40 yr old people, and being more experienced then you are, they laugh at you and ridicule you. You like that? Trust me, do it, you would see what I mean. But if let say you already are a manager, ample skills and experience at your fingertips. You think you would be afraid to recruit your angry 50 yr old uncle? Well, my point being, its natural to see young people active. Venture Era do have 40 and 50 yr old agents but do you see them? Nope, why? They have families to feed. Running a business requires dedication. Anyway it is not a policy that Venture Era only recruits young people. We can recruit anyone. But if Im 21, definitely im more comfortable bringing my 21 yr old friends in as my business partners. When the company grows big like Amway and USANA ans it goes global, you will see more people like doctors and lawyers joining just like they did at AMWAY. It take time my friend for this kind of growth and vision. If Venture Era’s agents are now all 50 yr olds, and all of them disappear after 7 to their families, trust me, VE would never go global. JMulti-Level Marketing is really not a industry good to work in because you make use of one another inside the industry. Imagine, you being recruited by your upline, work so hard to sell those I-dont-know-if-they-ever-can-be-trusted-products but have half your profits going to your upline and you not getting what you're supposed to get. Then you, recruiting others to do the same, sell the products and have half of their profits credited to you?
Oh, you seriously do not know what is BUSINESS. Let me educate you (but I think you should educate yourself first). You run your own business, a computer shop with a unique data chip product. Would you for the rest of your life stand outside your shop saying “PEANUT CHIPS! COME TO MY SHOP! LELONG! A DOLLOR AND 50 CENTS! MUCH BETTER THAN MICROSOFT”S!”? Or would you find other distributing channels like, distributors, contractors and agents, retailers at sim-line? Now, aren’t you MAKING USE of them too? Why? Because if Sim-line does not sell your product, they do not make the money and YOU do not make the money. There is a bigger elaboration, but if you know business, you ould know the power of leverage! Its what have been keeping the world economy up for many centuries. Simple, why oh why wouldn’t I want to make money for my upline, when he provided me with an office, did not demand me a single cent to maintain the office, provide me with training, provide me with free seminars of motivation and make bucks because of these? If you knoe Business, you know how shareholders split their profits and you know how business partners round the world split their profits. That is business!Let me explain why motivations & seminars're involved inside Venture Era. It's only there to project what's being done externally. You need people with high morale to sell the products. You need people with motivation to sell the products, You need people with faith in your products for sales. You need to brainwash people to trust your products.
“Brainwash” again. Sigh. Imagine Bill Gates in front of 50 first people in Microsoft telling them “HEY! This product actually dosen’t work! You know what, lets do this quick and be rich by scamming people! Want to know my journey up the business world? I got rejected 5000 times! Yea! Wooho! Fun eh?! Im a nerd! You ll will be like me one day! But its ok to scam and be rich nerds right?! Wahahahah!”
Who would want to keep your company in low spirits? People wont've confidence to sell. You'll've no income. I heard that they often emphasise on hardwork and share their experience up the business ladder? Who're you kidding?
You catch my point? Obviously you have not worked in a successful MNC company before cause if you have, you would know that they always have motivational seminars by their leaders, events, music and dance just to keep their people focus and upbeat. Especially when your people are doing business, they are not paid to do their jobs, they are MAKING money by creating assets (like more distributors). Well, do not worry, want to learn more? Read marketing books like E-myth. They tell you important things about the world of marketing your image, er I mean the world of “brainwashing”. Ahem*!.Can anyone account for whether what they've said's true? Who knows you might be boasting your figures & stuff? It's not a scam. But vicious attempts to push for sales.
All I can answer is, Bill Gates: “YOU KNOW WHAT?! IM EARNING PEANUTS STILL EVEN THOUGH IM HERE FOR ALREADY 5 years running this god damn company!LOOK! Even our cleaner woman is not paid! Microsoft will never make it! WHY?! CAUSE I STARTED IT YET I DO NOT MAKE ANY CENT! DAMN! YOU ALL SHOULD JUST QUIT! ITS NOT WORTH IT I TELL YOU!”
==One question I would like to ask Venture Era people here.
Hehe. If you are my downline, I DEFINITELY wonÂ’t allow you to present to your own customer. My point is, if you are unequipped and not ready to be sharp in you talking to prospects, why would you want to tarnish your prospect by screwin it up? Simple fact, your managers are your up. Sometimes they appear to help you so that you get the most out of the prospect. And that is business! To get most out of the prospect. Is it wrong recruiting customers? Haha. You want to know something? Steven Jobbs first partner was his customer who bought the first beta mainframe of macintosh. Steve saw that this guy had big network of market behind him so Steve persuaded him to be partners. Mind you, Apple was nothing at that time, really NOTHING. If you come to the cooperate world of business, you would know that recruitment is not wrong. The manager will not recruit the person for his or herself. They are helping you close your deal at the same time get a strong downline for you! Of course he gets the profits too but how selfish are you? The poor manager helps you by providing you the training and even closing the deal for you. Of course, that again you do not know business.
I see a common trend inside every account of people who've visited Venture Era to find out what it's like inside.
Why is it that after you people promote and demonstrate the products inside that bloody office of you people, the manager must appear? To recruit people from their own customers? Pardon me lah, people. Why are you people soooo power-hungry? sooooo money-hungry? soooo authority-hungry? All for the sake of what? Promotion, promotion so that you people'll get MORE commission from you people's sales. I'm sure I'm not wrong about this.Conclusion: Multi-Level Marketeers are just a bunch of people who have no life. The higher you get, the more money you get, the more people you make use of to get what you want. Often you people're ambitious to even talk about CARS.
I think your dream should be talking about horses and a mud house and an ugly wife/husband. Im sure you would get it then. (not to insult you, seriously, its just a point) MLM people has the most life actually. They get to control their own freedom, their own income without a ceiling, they can retire early, the harder they work in the beginning, the more relaxed they can be in the future. Its not only MLM, its business! But the beautiful thing about MLM that separate us from YOU (and thatÂ’s only you) is that, our business makes people rich, for us to be richer. You are being rich, at the same time you are giving a future to man people that you recruit. Yes some would fall out and be like you, but I bet you a million bucks, you can never be as rich at Gates, if you have not persevered like him. Of course thatÂ’s if you want a horse, a mud house and an ugly spouse. Then I have no comments.http://www.venture-eragroup.com.sg. Really, check out their forums and you'll see much of the ugly side of them. 1st millionaire, type of cars they want. READ people.
Yea! People read! And hope you understand that they believe and they will get it! So do not discourage them yea? They are not doing a wrong thing. They are just telling themselves “hey, I know I can be a millionaire and drive a BMW. I am that confident about myself”. I’ll wait for the day someone post on VE forum that his dream is to live in a mud house and have 40 babies because he cant do anything better then tt.
PS. SORRY for the long post again! I promise IÂ’ll be brief next time yea? J -
thumbs up for corwin. you reply very well.
i'm concerned that your reply may not be appreciated in here, especially those who only knows how to criticise and pin point... too self centred and think they know everything.
i feel that you may want to invest more of your time on your business network rather than on those "they think they know everything" people. these people simply are too "rich and smart" that i think is not appropriate for you to mix with them too much.
by the way, i dont see the point of you defending your company because there isn't any need and nobody will care anyway. so, just move on in your life.
cheers and all the best to you. -
I guess you are right Wong
Well, thnx and I did told myself, writing in this forum is onlyto defend my company with ONE post. And its so people that come here are not blinded by the flammers. Well, other than tt, I'll only answer PM, haha although it's quite TEMPTING to jus reply those flammers, ya know what I mean. After all, I am a networker you know, I thrive on challengers.
Well, but I agree with you. I won't be here long anyway, jus one post and a few tempted replies (oh man...forums are like drugs! aaaarghH!) jus kidding.
Thnx for your compliments anyway!
Cheers -
Then I will come to conclusion that I will not join an MLM company that only blames the public for its incompetence.
Like I said, many in those big companies like Amway, Nuskin, Elken, Bel Air etc etc dont, and no prize for guessing why they can grow big. -
Before I forget, pls dont post a topic that has been posted before and is currently in use
Pls keep sgforums neat and tidy for the comfort of all forumers -
laurence82, sorry for the mishap that I have done by posting another topic.
And yea, definately, Ill shut up, O mighty one. AMWAY, NUSKAIN, BELAIR ain't my comparison. They are far to huge for a pioneer defendant who sounds like he has no idea what he has got himself into, to actually compare with. They have millions of bucks to impress you. I have nothing.
Just for clarification, not for starting an argument cause seriously I didn't catch you. Saying blaiming the public for their incompetence, eh, did you say I said that? Oh man, if I really do, real sorry. No idea I caused such misintepretations. Oh did I get it wrong? Or is that a hypothical remark?
Laurence82, seems you are really not in the swing of this industry. Well can't blame you. Its a argumentative business model anyway.
Corwin_2k -
Laurence actually Corwin_2k posts is not to blames the public, but to tell everyone his side of stories and experience.Originally posted by laurence82:Then I will come to conclusion that I will not join an MLM company that only blames the public for its incompetence.
Like I said, many in those big companies like Amway, Nuskin, Elken, Bel Air etc etc dont, and no prize for guessing why they can grow big.
In here we always hear on those who are so-called victim of MLM or no MLMers, so listening to both side of stories will let us think more, don't you think so?
Anyway You should have same the same topic issue earlier, because NTI topic is far more than any others, which is also a good advertisement for it
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I know its his side, but my point is, who cares?
Business is afterall business, you can play along some emotional line to gain some pity, to gain some empathy.
If the public dont buy it, if they choose to flame, whack you, the public can be, in all words, unreasonable, I agree. But then again, like I said, who cares? The idea of MLM is to convert the unbelievers, and if you cant buy them over, too bad. You dont earn.
Its not like Christianity, where the consequences of not believing, in Christian doctrines, that the person may be judged and condemned to hell. In this case, its reverse, its the chef who dont realise that its his customers who pay his salary.
You can continue calling them whackers, flamers, by all means. Then I would wait how long you will be, not the company,will be in this industry. -
Hi, just a little curious. Don't know anything about VE except from what I read here. So it naturally evokes some questions from a bystander. Why does VE not market the magnetic mattress through the mode of conventional retail? If it's such a viable product and plan, why not do so?
This one's directed to the issue of youngsters dropping out in to do VE since you mentioned it in one post. This is a highly ethical issue to me. I noticed that most MLMs have no qualms about recruiting youngsters. Whether we'd like to admit it or not, youths are still impressionable in a way. Being highly fired after a motivational talk because of the confidence and nature of the product success is good. However, I feel it's not about sporting opportunties and belief.
I'm talking about this supposed potrayal of perceived success in which appears to motivate through the handle of human weakness and desire that seems to present itself in the forms of retiring early and getting those dream “wants” etc. I might be wrong on this one but I’m more inclined to think that such motivation has been used in a wrong manner where people get inspired by such “visions” of wealth rather than faith in the product and business plan. (work by exploiting human weaknesses)
So Corwin, for the sake of discussion, do you think the aggressive sales system has contributed to such black sheep who only enourage others to act in the best interests of the company and the uplines themselves? Do you think the MLM model is responsible for this if so?
Does VE actually adequately address the pitfalls of the trade to these youngsters or just conveniently omit the issue? -
I think you have poined out some good questions.
But I have to answer the questions as MLM as a whole rather then VE itself. For both questions, I suppose. The first being: "young, easily exploited". Well, I think that conclusion is not so in tact cause if you go to those top companies like Amway and Belair, their seminars shows similar "get rich" visions but mostly to an adult audience and if you say its more exploited to youngsters, trust me, these adults are "exploited" just the same. Alot of them commit a decision just through one or two seminars. So, young or old, dosen't matter. Its just an MLM age group trend in pioneering companies (mostly local companies cause they are all less than 10 yrs old), generally has a young age group, for pioneering purposes.
Comes to the next point, "exploitation" through igniting desires and vision of being rich. Firstly, you need to know: what is MLM? MLM is a business model but it is more of a conversion of mindset from the employee world to the business world. Basically, to me, MLM is a starting ground for entreprenuers. The conversion process of this is very tough because of the education system that has developed amongst everyone to have a mindset of being an employee (not that I am againts that, I do understand that generally the education system needs to prepare the a "skilled workforce" more than entreprenuers). And because of this, Majority of the people in the world have to be given the correct understanding of why must I do business? What is the ultimate purpose? Why do I have to sloth myself and risk myself to do business?
The answer is simple: it is a way to be wealthy. Of course you can be a sportsman (a high paying employee), but you still do not have assets that can serve generations after generations unless Beckham produces 20 other mini-beckhams. You can also be a president (a very high paying employee) of a company but like I said, you cannot pass your presidential post to your son can you? In so, MLM is ALSO one of the most successful business models in the world. I am suprised to see post that people saying, its the hardest job there is, because in the Guiness Book of Records, AMWAY has a record of creating more multi-millionaires then any company in the world.
If you talk about job, yes, Business Vs Job, definately Business are far worst in terms of hardship even though the returns would be big in the future. Also its far to risky. Talking about Business models that are available, trust me, Traditional Businesses are way harder to operate and maintain then MLM. Firstly, MLM requires you no overheads to maintain and that means you are given practically everything, even stocks available to you with information about the products already researched. You even have an office to operate in FOC. Alot of people feel that MLM is tough, because they are comparing it in terms of job.
Hence, after understanding this, in MLM seminars they have to paint a picture that ultimately, doing business is about early retirement, having a luxurious lifestyle and being wealthy. You do not see NON MLM companies doing this because, they are addressing employees not businessmen, and that would be a blatant false picture to paint. MLM is a business model and they have to paint tht kind of image, no one would know why they have to go through the hardship of selling.
Imagine, as a stonge-employee for 20 yrs in the working world, you have no idea that business is a way to be wealthier, you are shown uniquely interesting products, you are shown the company comp. plan and the first thing that pops up in your mind is "DAMN, NO WAY. IM NOT GOING TO BE A SALESMAN. WHATS THE POINT?" Why this thought, because you see no purpose and value in the product or compensation plan! The value to you is just HARD SELLING and RECRUITING OTHERS TO HARD SELL FOR YOU. MLM companies have to paint a "dream" for people its because of its nature of being a business model that gives the opputunity to average people to be part of the top 10% of the wealth factor in the country. Think of it, there is a reason why working as an employee, your interviewer or boss NEVER promise you a retirement vision of a boat, a car or a bungalow. Because an employee does not have that kind of power. (Some may argue that yes, there are wealthy employees, but wealth is measured in terms o how many generations can you feed, then just can you give the best to your own generation).
The other question of magnetic therapy on retail? Well, As a distributor, yes you can sell your mag therapy products to retailers for them to sell for you. No MLM company would tell you not to do that. But for the MLM company to solely use retail as a way of marketing, then it defeats the purpose of MLM don't you think so? The trillion dollar wellness industry in the future as said by many economists, will be an educative business model, where people are sold products based on information and compassionate service (that means personal touch of service. You are served by an honest agent). Simply said, future economists doubt the fact that putting a magnetic therapy bed even in a world-class retail shop would draw the same gravity compared to 50-100 independent distributors with 50-100 distributors under them educating the public about magnetic therapy in a single day, hence increase sales revenue and profits. Like I said again, if you have a retailer who is willing to buy from you 10 magnetic beds every month, than tt is your luck! I can further explain the speed of MLM compared to traditional/conventional marketing methods, but it would take long. Just, more universities world-wide in marketing and business courses are educating the publing about Multi-Level MARKETING or Network MARKETING. Havard has! Even Michigan and Oxford School of Business has Network Marketing modules.
Well to point out another of your question. I have to admit, I have no idea what other MLM companies potray in educating their agents but for VE, being in it, we are once in a while reminded of our purpose, but our leaders strictly & I mean STRICTLY emphasize on faith in the products and business plan so as we do not go out of focus. Even though flexibility is encouraged, having not much faith in the products and business plan would lead many to be lost and felt CHEATED. Venture Era shows a younger retirement and wealthier dream, but they never emphasize it. We too believe that hard work is needed to get this dreams. That is why the leaders constantly share their experiences, and they are not smooth sailing 3 months success journeys, but interesting journeys of ups and downs and how they tackle them. This to me is proper education.
Corwin -
maybe to sum up, it's the pple inside who are the black sheep, not the company itself...
MLM in other countries are doing good, but y singapore everyone shun MLM? cuz the mindset is already wrong. in countries like US, pple get into MLM and their primary role is to promote products, making money comes 2nd. as u save on advertising fee and thus giving consumers a great savings. but in sg, it is the other way round; making money 1st, den promote other products. many company offer good compensation plans and level of distributions, human are greedy. see money wanna earn. so lie to pple and recruit them, tell them it is workable and ask them to invest. well, i've seen too many frenz get suck into this loop and some of them are doing good, while the others juz cannot make it to the top.
if MLM in sg is based on the system used in US ie marketing product 1st den think of making money, guess the impression of MLM would change for the better. -
I wouldnt say the MLM in US is great either. There are a lot of civic organisations fighting scams, and to quote one website I read, their police works as fast as the Pony Express...Originally posted by kentheman:maybe to sum up, it's the pple inside who are the black sheep, not the company itself...
MLM in other countries are doing good, but y singapore everyone shun MLM? cuz the mindset is already wrong. in countries like US, pple get into MLM and their primary role is to promote products, making money comes 2nd. as u save on advertising fee and thus giving consumers a great savings. but in sg, it is the other way round; making money 1st, den promote other products. many company offer good compensation plans and level of distributions, human are greedy. see money wanna earn. so lie to pple and recruit them, tell them it is workable and ask them to invest. well, i've seen too many frenz get suck into this loop and some of them are doing good, while the others juz cannot make it to the top.
if MLM in sg is based on the system used in US ie marketing product 1st den think of making money, guess the impression of MLM would change for the better.
And I seriously dont buy the argument that the fault can like solely on distributors alone. If the company could not control their distributors who are destroying their reputation piecemeal, then the company shouldnt be considering doing this industry in the first place. Its a very philosophical argument, but cannot account for company's incompetence. -
One thing i want to mention about NM companies have alot younger people is because i think usually young people will only find people of their same age or do i say only have friends of their same age.
They might not have older people contacts or can't convince them, since older people will always think that they eat salt also more the rich they say and why is this young man telling them how to be rice.
Anyway as this way goes by, the company become mainly young people. -
Did MLM companies estimate the number of potential customer of the products?
And if they get the number, should there be a limit of sales rep.? Instead of recruiting endlessly??
Does Rolex open as many shops as Mcdonalds?? They dont. Cos they know that not everyone in signapore can afford a rolex. Imagine they close all the shops in town area, and they make it MLM. Will it work?? will there be more ppl can afford a rolex?When you buy a Rolex, do you trust the shop in Ngee Ann city or some young guy who approach you and sell you a rolex?
How you sell your products shuold be based on where your products stand in the market. And what type of products should be sold by individuals sales rep. and the number of sales rep. has no limit??
You remember what happen to bubble tea business?? Those were the days when u see ppl queue up infront of the "quickly" at lucky plaza....... and then, soon enuff, you see all brands of bubble tea shop everywhere. And now? where are they?? This is one trypical "supply higher than demand" case. Who lose money?? the "distributors"!! the shops owners who insvested money to rent the shop and buy the machines and powders. After they set it up they found out there are a few bubble tea shop nearby, and they found out there are not so many ppl buy from them. What can they do?? Close the shop and learn a good god damn lesson. Who earned some good bucks at that time? The one who sell those naive shop owners the powders and the cup sealing machines.
How many ppl in singapore actually demand for your products that your company need so many "distributors"??
There is no point in recuriting too many sales rep or having too many distributors when you are doing real business.
You supply based on demand. The demand wont grow bcos you increase the supply. It's when your supply does not meet the demand, then you increase your supply to meet it.
You may say that as a MLMers you are not going to "supply" anything, instead, you are the distributor, a channel between supply and demand. But, if there are not enuff demand, what are the channels for??? -
thats why we see most local companies eventually expanded to overseas markets!Originally posted by mochou:Did MLM companies estimate the number of potential customer of the products?
And if they get the number, should there be a limit of sales rep.? Instead of recruiting endlessly??
Does Rolex open as many shops as Mcdonalds?? They dont. Cos they know that not everyone in signapore can afford a rolex. Imagine they close all the shops in town area, and they make it MLM. Will it work?? will there be more ppl can afford a rolex?When you buy a Rolex, do you trust the shop in Ngee Ann city or some young guy who approach you and sell you a rolex?
How you sell your products shuold be based on where your products stand in the market. And what type of products should be sold by individuals sales rep. and the number of sales rep. has no limit??
You remember what happen to bubble tea business?? Those were the days when u see ppl queue up infront of the "quickly" at lucky plaza....... and then, soon enuff, you see all brands of bubble tea shop everywhere. And now? where are they?? This is one trypical "supply higher than demand" case. Who lose money?? the "distributors"!! the shops owners who insvested money to rent the shop and buy the machines and powders. After they set it up they found out there are a few bubble tea shop nearby, and they found out there are not so many ppl buy from them. What can they do?? Close the shop and learn a good god damn lesson. Who earned some good bucks at that time? The one who sell those naive shop owners the powders and the cup sealing machines.
How many ppl in singapore actually demand for your products that your company need so many "distributors"??
There is no point in recuriting too many sales rep or having too many distributors when you are doing real business.
You supply based on demand. The demand wont grow bcos you increase the supply. It's when your supply does not meet the demand, then you increase your supply to meet it.
You may say that as a MLMers you are not going to "supply" anything, instead, you are the distributor, a channel between supply and demand. But, if there are not enuff demand, what are the channels for??? -
i see your point. i agreed partially because i dont see EVERY singaporean voting for our PAP government, so how to you expect the company to control EVERY distributors?Originally posted by laurence82:I wouldnt say the MLM in US is great either. There are a lot of civic organisations fighting scams, and to quote one website I read, their police works as fast as the Pony Express...
And I seriously dont buy the argument that the fault can like solely on distributors alone. If the company could not control their distributors who are destroying their reputation piecemeal, then the company shouldnt be considering doing this industry in the first place. Its a very philosophical argument, but cannot account for company's incompetence.
well, there are no perfect industry or companies or people out there.. so no point arguing over differences because no one will really cares.
pEaCE. -
Pardon me, but that remark is akin to scratching your fingernails down a blackboard. You had some black sheeps tearing the organisation's reputation piecemeal and your sorry excuse for it was it you cant control every distributors.Originally posted by WongCH:i see your point. i agreed partially because i dont see EVERY singaporean voting for our PAP government, so how to you expect the company to control EVERY distributors?
well, there are no perfect industry or companies or people out there.. so no point arguing over differences because no one will really cares.
pEaCE.
I think this sort of attitude should be abhorred. Your company has this problem and instead of solving the problem, you choose to push the issue to the black sheeps. Thats the funny thing about many MLMers here, is that they dont solve problems. Seriously, I like to see many successful businessman losing money and blaming on something else other than themselves. Its a lose lose situation, because you guys dont really understand the idea of the 'chef forgets that its the customers who pay his salaries'.
The use of analogy is poor. The idea of a democracy and a voting system exlude the word 'control'. Its oxymoronic to be truthful. -
i'm speaking the facts and not an excuse, its just that you dont like to see the facts.Originally posted by laurence82:Pardon me, but that remark is akin to scratching your fingernails down a blackboard. You had some black sheeps tearing the organisation's reputation piecemeal and your sorry excuse for it was it you cant control every distributors.
I think this sort of attitude should be abhorred. Your company has this problem and instead of solving the problem, you choose to push the issue to the black sheeps. Thats the funny thing about many MLMers here, is that they dont solve problems. Seriously, I like to see many successful businessman losing money and blaming on something else other than themselves. Its a lose lose situation, because you guys dont really understand the idea of the 'chef forgets that its the customers who pay his salaries'.
The use of analogy is poor. The idea of a democracy and a voting system exlude the word 'control'. Its oxymoronic to be truthful.
secondly, how can you assume that the company is not solving the problem? i believe they are solving the problem but there will not be 100% result. there are still cases of scams in insurance, property, banking sectors etc after so many years... does that means the companies are not doing anything? i believe they are doing good but there are still black sheeps in every industries. thats the facts and i hope you can accept it.
lastly, i hope you can let the readers know what is your profiles, credibility and achievements so far, so that the readers will not being cheated again by those "seem to know everything" and actually "dont know how to DO anything" poser. -
Since when did I say you are giving excuses? We are talking about MLM companies right?Originally posted by WongCH:i'm speaking the facts and not an excuse, its just that you dont like to see the facts.
secondly, how can you assume that the company is not solving the problem? i believe they are solving the problem but there will not be 100% result. there are still cases of scams in insurance, property, banking sectors etc after so many years... does that means the companies are not doing anything? i believe they are doing good but there are still black sheeps in every industries. thats the facts and i hope you can accept it.
lastly, i hope you can let the readers know what is your profiles, credibility and achievements so far, so that the readers will not being cheated again by those "seem to know everything" and actually "dont know how to DO anything" poser.
Again, do you think the public is ever so reasonable and compassionate? This is why you dont see companies in the red going to AGMs or Business Times or Financial Times willingly saying 'oh geez, competition is tough, sorry' or 'we could not fully utilise our manpower'. The public, especially the shareholders would take their shares elsewhere. Similarly, for MLM companies, as long as the distributors, no matter how small is the number of black sheeps is, are able to put down the companies' reputation, statements like 'cannot control 100% of distributors' cannot be used as a reason whatsover.
Its akin to stabbing yourself in the foot. Its telling the whole world the company is incompetent. Its pushing the blame, even if the company is trying to solve the issue. MLM, afterall is a business, not some CSOs or charity groups. There is no reason for the public to give way. If the company cannot do it, its just too bad. People like topicstarter can rail against public biases, defend his company as if it is promoting some righteous cause, but if cannot win over the public, just too bad for the company's pockets.
As for my achievements, profile etc etc..ever heard of ad hominem argument?