Venture Era - a defending point of view.
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a side note.
your company cannot have Agents making the same mistakes 4 years ago, and still making it now!
where are your rules and regulations? what are your management doing? there must be a code of conduct for all agents. I dun think VE has a code of conduct, even there is, it is extremely diversified.
If a mistake is made, actions must be taken to not only rectify the mistake but to ensure that this mistake will not be repeated. Its the role of managers. but the role of ''managers'' is also mis-used in VE.
i dun expect you to reply to my comments, but to give it a thought.
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Double post
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Now for eagle's point of "From all the VE agents here, such an interview doesn't seem to exist. Means any Tom Dick and Harry can join VE. Am I right?"
Yes, I agree that there is no filtering of applicants into this company, except that they must be 18 this year, for that is the new law set by Ministry of Manpower not long ago.
I do not know about you or your work experience when you are in your teens or early twenties, or if you are even in your early twenties yet. But I can tell you that I am very grateful that Venture Era does not filter its applicants.
Not long ago, I was searching for jobs. I have been to many interviews, but I was turned down one by one cause I had to enlist into NS in April. They say that my commitment time was too short. One day I stumbled onto this company, and they accepted me despite my little commitment time, and since the company system is in such a way that everyone has an incentive to help everybody, I was well taught by my mentor. He had no qualms about teaching me things that I needed or know, for the further I go in this company, the more it benefits him also. There is very unlike the corporate world, where managers always keep somethings from their apprentices for fear of the apprentice overthrowing him one day.
What I want to say is it, we should not think that any Tom, Dick or Harry can join this company. It should be more like any Tom, Dick or Harry can have a chance to learn in this company, a chance that I am certain that no other non-MLM company presents. Just think of what you learn in your temp admin jobs that you have undertaken, or even the 8-5 job that you are in right now. Don't you feel that your boss is keeping something from you? Or if you are in a high position right now, do you not keep any secrets from your subordinates?
What we are giving is a chance here to all. And we cannot filter who to give this chance to, for we cannot, and i emphasize, we cannot know how to filter. A primary school dropout can very well be the next Bill Gates. We will never know. So what kind of filtering do you expect us to do? If you really have a valid and logical way of filtering, I would really like you to share it with me. -
Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
Ok I will first reply to eagle first. eagle, frankly speaking, I do not get most of your post. I do not get this part "Sounds fair enough thus far. But I'm still maintaining the same stand as posted earlier, in reply to most posts by supposedly "black sheeps". It is tantamount to "lying" to themselves" as well as this part "And 3rd thing is the number of lawsuit threats given, which in the end didn't materialise at all. Gives impression of empty talk, NATO." So if you wouldnt mind, I would hope that you can rephrase it in another way or tell me more about it. Thanks.
Let me use this post to reply to your this part "Being a MLMer in VE is not a rewarding business; it's not even their own business to begin with, yet they claim they are doing their own business. That's one thing I'm against. (Add: It's still the job of a salesman)"
Before we understand why doing MLM is tantamount to doing your own business, we need to learn some history of MLM.
Before MLM came about, there was this trend of franchising. Let me use the Mcdonald chain as an example. Back then in the days, Dick and Mac Mcdonald came up with the idea of Mcdonald. However, later on, they sold the business rights to a guy named Ray Kroc. Kroc came up with a way to run this restaurants, and successively set up many outlets in the USA with the help of other people, and establish the name Mcdonalds.
Now imagine that there is guy named Tommy, who is a Singaporean and wishes to start a restaurant in the F & B industry in Singapore. However, he does not want to name it Tommy Fast Food Express or anything like that. That is because no one has heard of it before, no one know whether it is good or bad, and no one can comment on it. So being rational, Tommy decided to start a franchise of Mcdonalds in Singapore, since there is already an established name and he would be more likely to succeed. (Assume that there is still not a Mcdonald shop in Singapore) He goes over to USA to learn how to set up and run Mcdonald shops, and then he comes back to Singapore and sets up a whole chain of Mcdonald shops with his limited capital. However, the catch is that of the profits that Tommy earns, Ray Kroc gets a part of it. This is true in the world today of all the Mcdonald chains all over the world, be it Singapore, Malaysia, Japan and so on.
Then came along the idea of MLM. Actually, MLM is also known as human franchising. That is because the company that you join is basically Ray Kroc, and you the franchise of your market, like Tommy's market which is Singapore. You learn skills from the company on how to operate this business, and then you set out to do what they taught you. You sell the same products that the company has given you to sell, just like Tommy sells the same burgers, fries and drinks as Ray Kroc in his Mcdonalds in the USA. There might be slight differences, but it is basically the same products. Then from the profits that you gain from selling the products, the company gets a part of it.
So if you think that Tommy is doing his own business, then whoever that is doing MLM is also doing his own business. And we are talking about those who do MLM to quite an extent, who can be considered rather successful. That is because if Tommy had failed in, say his first year, then there would probably be no business, and another guy can just do what Tommy did, and if this another guy manages to succeed would be another issue.
I can go on to elaborate more, but I feel that this post is rather long already and you get can my point already. So I shall end here.Here goes all over again.
It is not your own business because
1) you do not have a brand name or company name.
2) you do not employ and pay people salaries and cpf.
3) there is a corporate structure and you are not the top.And using the example of Macs is totally wrong. When you franchise, you are using their trademark.
Your post is long, but all the points had been shot down flat to nothing throughout the 70 odd pages, if you take the time to read through all.
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Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
Ok now this post would be used to reply eagle's question which is "Second thing which has been failed to be brought out is that being an MLMer in VE helps you build passive income. Really duh..."
Firstly, if you did come down to an orientation at my company before, you would know that this sentence is untrue. During the orientation we will always tell you that you will get passive income, when we talk about bringing in recruitment once you have reached a certain position.
What I feel is more of your concern is whether passive income is justified. So I will respond to this concern instead.
Very simply put, to justify passive income, I will just need to justify Ray Kroc earning a part of the profit of every Mcdonald chain in the world. Personally I think that it is fair. Ray Kroc has started out from nothing, and came up with the Mcdonalds Systems, Inc. He is a pioneer, and has went through hardships that we cannot imagine to bring Mcdonalds to where it is today. He is now reaping the fruits of his labour, and we cannot criticise that, for it is he who planted the seeds.
MLM is the same thing. You start from the lowest position and no organization. Should you one day build a stable, self-running organization and reach a high position, who is to say that it is unfair that you are earning passive income from your organization, even if you do nothing later on? If that is so, you are saying that many people in the world are unethnical, like Warren Buffett, Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. They are definitely earning passive income, but who complains? Without Bill Gates, would we even have be in this forum right now? Think about it.So in short, you are comparing Ray Kroc, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs with typical MLM salesmen? Wow.
Those people are the CEOs and owner of their companies.
Again, your points, tactics and usage of using such people to compare with MLM salesmen has been shot down flat through the 70+ pages.
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Originally posted by eagle:
So in short, you are comparing Ray Kroc, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs with typical MLM salesmen? Wow.
Those people are the CEOs and owner of their companies.
Again, your points, tactics and usage of using such people to compare with MLM salesmen has been shot down flat through the 70+ pages.
I dont like him, or rather, MLMers using the examples of other people in the same line
I will give loved ones a chance, but who is obliged to give salesmen a chance?
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Let me reply to corebooster first. I have only joined this company for close to a month, so I do not know of how things are run last time, but I am pretty sure it is the same as now. What I can tell you that last time, there was no one like me, but now, I am here. If you are really interested to see change, why not embark on a journey with me to implement change? It is easy for one to say that a company needs change. It is easy for one to say that ERP is useless and it eats our hard-earned money. But are we really in a position to complain? For we are not the government, we do not know what problems they have or the stress they are under or the things they are going through.
As what you suggested, a code of conduct is really what I hope will be implemented in this company. Like a list of Do's and Do-not's in this company for newcomers. Something like that would be a very good start to me. And that is what I am advocating strongly to the company. But alas, I am but of a small position in the company, so things that I can do is limited now. But I promise you that I will do my best to go far in this company to make sure that this change is implemented. -
Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
Now for eagle's point of "From all the VE agents here, such an interview doesn't seem to exist. Means any Tom Dick and Harry can join VE. Am I right?"
Yes, I agree that there is no filtering of applicants into this company, except that they must be 18 this year, for that is the new law set by Ministry of Manpower not long ago.
I do not know about you or your work experience when you are in your teens or early twenties, or if you are even in your early twenties yet. But I can tell you that I am very grateful that Venture Era does not filter its applicants.
Not long ago, I was searching for jobs. I have been to many interviews, but I was turned down one by one cause I had to enlist into NS in April. They say that my commitment time was too short. One day I stumbled onto this company, and they accepted me despite my little commitment time, and since the company system is in such a way that everyone has an incentive to help everybody, I was well taught by my mentor. He had no qualms about teaching me things that I needed or know, for the further I go in this company, the more it benefits him also. There is very unlike the corporate world, where managers always keep somethings from their apprentices for fear of the apprentice overthrowing him one day.
What I want to say is it, we should not think that any Tom, Dick or Harry can join this company. It should be more like any Tom, Dick or Harry can have a chance to learn in this company, a chance that I am certain that no other non-MLM company presents. Just think of what you learn in your temp admin jobs that you have undertaken, or even the 8-5 job that you are in right now. Don't you feel that your boss is keeping something from you? Or if you are in a high position right now, do you not keep any secrets from your subordinates?
What we are giving is a chance here to all. And we cannot filter who to give this chance to, for we cannot, and i emphasize, we cannot know how to filter. A primary school dropout can very well be the next Bill Gates. We will never know. So what kind of filtering do you expect us to do? If you really have a valid and logical way of filtering, I would really like you to share it with me.So to summarize, it still means there will definitely still be many black sheeps joining the company.
What good is a company that cannot filter applicants itself? A company's salesmen is the people who will be directly in contact with the customers. Give a bad impression and you are killed.
And if there are black sheeps around, god knows what it will gives you for your resume to be associated with black sheeps even though you might not be one.
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Let's ask the favourite MLMers question
How much do you earn a month?
If it is SGD5k or more within your first month of working, tell me hor.
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Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
Let me reply to corebooster first. I have only joined this company for close to a month, so I do not know of how things are run last time, but I am pretty sure it is the same as now. What I can tell you that last time, there was no one like me, but now, I am here. If you are really interested to see change, why not embark on a journey with me to implement change? It is easy for one to say that a company needs change. It is easy for one to say that ERP is useless and it eats our hard-earned money. But are we really in a position to complain? For we are not the government, we do not know what problems they have or the stress they are under or the things they are going through.
As what you suggested, a code of conduct is really what I hope will be implemented in this company. Like a list of Do's and Do-not's in this company for newcomers. Something like that would be a very good start to me. And that is what I am advocating strongly to the company. But alas, I am but of a small position in the company, so things that I can do is limited now. But I promise you that I will do my best to go far in this company to make sure that this change is implemented.Sorry, if changes can be inplemented, i wun even left in the first place.
in respond to ERP, u have to understand the motive of installation. I understand the motive of VE agents - Sales -. coz this is their only source of revenue. they are not given a basic pay + commission package.
With regard to Code of Conduct. If there is 1 in the first place, i would not have left too.If possible, please go check, on the following
- Your products.
-Your source of customers
-Your targeted customers.
I wish you all the best, if possible, go read up on books of organisational behavior and management.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
I dont like him, or rather, MLMers using the examples of other people in the same line
I will give loved ones a chance, but who is obliged to give salesmen a chance?
Wrong la
Ray Kroc, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are not even in the same line.
I don't think Mac or WB's investments or Gates' Windows or Steve's Apple are in MLM
Have you hear of anyone who got as rich as those examples through MLM only?
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Now to eagle's point. And boy this forum is very active. I cant seem to get any breather, do I?
Yes, going by the traditional definition of business, MLM is not running your own business. But at the very least it is closer to running your own business compared to a corporate job. My mentor has always told me that you can never think like an employer by being an employee. In MLM you at the very least are thinking like an employer.
I am not sure about you, but I have friends that want to make it big in life. They want to achieve great things. But when you ask them how are they doing to do it, they do not have an idea. They would say things like "er dno lei. get a 8-5 job first lo. gain some capital, den go out and start a business la!". Between you and me, don't you think that that is a joke? Because they speak of the future. They have no plans now. All their plans refer to the future. But the future is unpredictable. My mentor who is 28 years old this year has had many friends who said these things, and they have been doing 8-5 jobs for years now. When they are asked whey are they going to start their business, they would give reasons like economy is in a recession now, or I am getting married soon where got money, or my dad/mum has an illness now so where got money, and so on. I personally think that they would most likely not start a business ever.
So I think that MLM can give you an idea on running a business. And the people there are young. I am young. Even if I waste two years there, I will only be 21. I might have failed, but I definitely am a wise 21. If the two years of experience is enough to make me wise. But I would definitely be wiser than most 21 year olds. And to me, that can never happen without MLM.
Anyway I am going to play dota soon, so if I stop posting, I am not running away. I am just taking a break. Peace out people. -
Originally posted by eagle:
Wrong la
Ray Kroc, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are not even in the same line.
I don't think Mac or WB's investments or Gates' Windows or Steve's Apple are in MLM
Have you hear of anyone who got as rich as those examples through MLM only?
thats why
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Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
Now to eagle's point. And boy this forum is very active. I cant seem to get any breather, do I?
Yes, going by the traditional definition of business, MLM is not running your own business. But at the very least it is closer to running your own business compared to a corporate job. My mentor has always told me that you can never think like an employer by being an employee. In MLM you at the very least are thinking like an employer.
I am not sure about you, but I have friends that want to make it big in life. They want to achieve great things. But when you ask them how are they doing to do it, they do not have an idea. They would say things like "er dno lei. get a 8-5 job first lo. gain some capital, den go out and start a business la!". Between you and me, don't you think that that is a joke? Because they speak of the future. They have no plans now. All their plans refer to the future. But the future is unpredictable. My mentor who is 28 years old this year has had many friends who said these things, and they have been doing 8-5 jobs for years now. When they are asked whey are they going to start their business, they would give reasons like economy is in a recession now, or I am getting married soon where got money, or my dad/mum has an illness now so where got money, and so on. I personally think that they would most likely not start a business ever.
So I think that MLM can give you an idea on running a business. And the people there are young. I am young. Even if I waste two years there, I will only be 21. I might have failed, but I definitely am a wise 21. If the two years of experience is enough to make me wise. But I would definitely be wiser than most 21 year olds. And to me, that can never happen without MLM.
Anyway I am going to play dota soon, so if I stop posting, I am not running away. I am just taking a break. Peace out people.Before u even start on on running a business.
u need to know, how to manage your capital, your assets, Human Resourse, Sales, Finance, Billing, Book-Keeping, Trading, and managing your staff, making the right decisions.
i think VE only teach me, Sales and Politics. the rest, i read myself 1. even my current ''8-5'' job teach me more loh..
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Wait before I zao, some points really need to be addressed now.
Eagle asked this "Have you hear of anyone who got as rich as those examples through MLM only?"
To answer this question, you might be interested in reading this article, cause I can tell you, a lot of fortune 500 companies are using, or have used MLM.
The article can be found here: http://www.internetnextstep.com/mlmsecret.htm
To quote somethings in the article."In fact, 47 percent of the companies that made up the Fortune 500 in 1980 are no longer in operation today, which represents a net loss of more than five million jobs!"
"In 1993, Amway was the fastest growing foreign company in Japan with sales over $1 billion." Amway is the biggest MLM firm if you do not know.
"Network Marketing is reported to be a $100 billion dollar industry, internationally, made up of FORTUNE 500 and New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) companies."
I hope this answers your question. -
Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
Now to eagle's point. And boy this forum is very active. I cant seem to get any breather, do I?
Yes, going by the traditional definition of business, MLM is not running your own business. But at the very least it is closer to running your own business compared to a corporate job. My mentor has always told me that you can never think like an employer by being an employee. In MLM you at the very least are thinking like an employer.
I am not sure about you, but I have friends that want to make it big in life. They want to achieve great things. But when you ask them how are they doing to do it, they do not have an idea. They would say things like "er dno lei. get a 8-5 job first lo. gain some capital, den go out and start a business la!". Between you and me, don't you think that that is a joke? Because they speak of the future. They have no plans now. All their plans refer to the future. But the future is unpredictable. My mentor who is 28 years old this year has had many friends who said these things, and they have been doing 8-5 jobs for years now. When they are asked whey are they going to start their business, they would give reasons like economy is in a recession now, or I am getting married soon where got money, or my dad/mum has an illness now so where got money, and so on. I personally think that they would most likely not start a business ever.
So I think that MLM can give you an idea on running a business. And the people there are young. I am young. Even if I waste two years there, I will only be 21. I might have failed, but I definitely am a wise 21. If the two years of experience is enough to make me wise. But I would definitely be wiser than most 21 year olds. And to me, that can never happen without MLM.
Anyway I am going to play dota soon, so if I stop posting, I am not running away. I am just taking a break. Peace out people.Yes, going by the traditional definition of business, MLM is not running your own business. But at the very least it is closer to running your own business compared to a corporate job. My mentor has always told me that you can never think like an employer by being an employee. In MLM you at the very least are thinking like an employer.
How? But having no filters for applicants as you have already mentioned?
If you want to compare like this, in the corporate world
==> you become a manager and hv to interview pple before employing them ==> thinking like an employer
==> you coordinate between different projects and assign different tasks to different people, making sure your instructions are clear enough (possible for fresh grad) ==> thinking like an employer
==> be in the Quality Assurance team and you have to ensure high quality before shipping out to customers ==> thinking like an employer
I can still go on and on.... duh...
I am not sure about you, but I have friends that want to make it big in life. They want to achieve great things. But when you ask them how are they doing to do it, they do not have an idea. They would say things like "er dno lei. get a 8-5 job first lo. gain some capital, den go out and start a business la!". Between you and me, don't you think that that is a joke? Because they speak of the future. They have no plans now. All their plans refer to the future. But the future is unpredictable. My mentor who is 28 years old this year has had many friends who said these things, and they have been doing 8-5 jobs for years now. When they are asked whey are they going to start their business, they would give reasons like economy is in a recession now, or I am getting married soon where got money, or my dad/mum has an illness now so where got money, and so on. I personally think that they would most likely not start a business ever.
How many people ever made it big in MLM
So I think that MLM can give you an idea on running a business. And the people there are young. I am young. Even if I waste two years there, I will only be 21. I might have failed, but I definitely am a wise 21. If the two years of experience is enough to make me wise. But I would definitely be wiser than most 21 year olds. And to me, that can never happen without MLM.
MLM gives you an idea on how to be a salesman. It is not a business. You don't run your own advertisement campaigns on newspapers, etc etc.
And now you are telling us that joining MLM will definitely make you wiser than most 21 years old in 2 years time????????? How about corebooster or the other forumers who had been there, done that, and condemn VE? They are definitely wiser than you right?
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Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
Wait before I zao, some points really need to be addressed now.
Eagle asked this "Have you hear of anyone who got as rich as those examples through MLM only?"
To answer this question, you might be interested in reading this article, cause I can tell you, a lot of fortune 500 companies are using, or have used MLM.
The article can be found here: http://www.internetnextstep.com/mlmsecret.htm
To quote somethings in the article."In fact, 47 percent of the companies that made up the Fortune 500 in 1980 are no longer in operation today, which represents a net loss of more than five million jobs!"
"In 1993, Amway was the fastest growing foreign company in Japan with sales over $1 billion." Amway is the biggest MLM firm if you do not know.
"Network Marketing is reported to be a $100 billion dollar industry, internationally, made up of FORTUNE 500 and New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) companies."
I hope this answers your question.It is the company and the owner that are made rich; in short you are making them rich => you are still an employee.
Any MLMer that done that????????? Especially in Singapore????
But since you are in it already, try it out. I'm not against the nature of VE's business, something I have stated many times in this thread. Just don't treat it as your own business. You are better off starting your own business after that if you are really into making it big.
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Originally posted by Gensis:
Let's ask the favourite MLMers question
How much do you earn a month?
If it is SGD5k or more within your first month of working, tell me hor.
He can't answer you la.
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to add on. im just a 19 year old. i believe, i seen more than you. but nevetheless, all the best for your tenure in VE.
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sry to hijack, eagle, i think we met before right? @ SC steamboating outing at La Mei Zi last year?
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Originally posted by corebooster:
sry to hijack, eagle, i think we met before right? @ SC steamboating outing at La Mei Zi last year?
yup
Bugis that one
You going for the latest SC chicken rice outing?
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i tot chickie rice outing cancelled ler
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still considering coz its quite far
me stay @ Jurong. den now got quite a heavy job and study commitments. but nevetheless, me enjoying my job ^^
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Originally posted by laurence82:
i tot chickie rice outing cancelled ler
dunno leh
I thought 28th feb? Ytd I just went past it while going home from giving tuition...
If cancel, I just go there by myself with my gf to eat
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Originally posted by corebooster:
still considering coz its quite far
me stay @ Jurong. den now got quite a heavy job and study commitments. but nevetheless, me enjoying my job ^^
what u studying now and working as now...?