Venture Era - a defending point of view.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
For a salesman you fail to reach out to your target audience
Another bad salesman up there
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Originally posted by eagle:
Another bad salesman up there
i am reminded of lionnoisy
Long post which nobody feels like reading
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Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
Ok this is to respond to fudgester. As a disclaimer, I am also not very convinced by our water. I can only convinced by our magnetic beds and the air system. My mum is using the magnetic bed, and her blood pressure has dropped from a high to a borderline high level. To me, it really works. For the air system, I have loaned trials to customers for rooms in their offices where there are air quality problems, and situations have improved and they have bought from us, so I believe in the air system too. But the water system, it has yet to reach out to me. However, I will try my best to answer your question. If not I will ask my mentor, who is an engineer and very good at chemistry, and he might tell me more and then I will reply to your question with more depth.
Firstly, I think absorption of water starts in the mouth, or somewhere before the water reaches the stomach. I am not a biology student, so I might be wrong. So we are talking about alkaline water in your bloodstream and body before it even gets neutralized in the stomach.
Yes I do know that our blood is a buffer. However, how do you know one's blood is still in a healthy range? Maybe it is already starting to change. And if it has changed one would already be in a serious condition. So we cannot take for granted that our blood will always be at a healthy pH level. For the things that we take in nowadays are mainly acidic. Like our meat and even vegetables due to chemicals. Also, our products reach out to people who are concerned about health or already have some health problems like high blood pressure. Youths like us will not be interested in these products as health is not really a big issue to us right now. So this is about marketing to the right group of people.
Your last point is that "Any minor change of the pH of blood will denature the enzymes in the blood and lead to a lot of problems for the human body." I agree. A new borned baby has a blood constitution that is alkaline. But over the years due to our modern lifestyle and intake of food, a majority of us would have a slightly acidic blood constitution by the age of 40. And that is when problems start coming in. So our water changes our slightly acidic blood back to alkaline blood so that you are healthy again.
Btw Fudgester, if you have any more queries just post, meanwhile I will ask my mentor about your three points.1. Your mum's personal experience counts as 'anecdotal evidence'. That is to say, it can only be an anecdote to hard evidence from proper controlled studies that reduces bias and accounts for factors like the placebo effect.
Otherwise, I can hold an ordinary rock and reasonably claim that it protects me from tigers. After all, I'm just stating my personal experience.... there are no tigers around me.
2. Even if absorption of water starts in the mouth, the bulk of it goes into your stomach before it gets absorbed via your small intestines. If you're not sure, go drink a glass of water. Hold the water in your mouth without swallowing and tell me what you think.
Also, even if you're not a bio student, basic chemistry will tell you that concentrated hydrochloric acid will totally neutralize weak alkaline solutions.
3. pH of normal blood is around 7.4 (weakly alkaline). If it drops below 6.8 or goes above 7.8, death can result. Just a slight change less than those 0.6 units will cause trouble. No kidding.
Sure, our blood pH levels may drop very slightly from time to time due to lactic acid buildup during exercise (which is why you get sore muscles). Which is why our body already has built-in mechanisms like acidic buffers and increased respiration rates to get rid of any excess acid buildup. No intervention needed except for drastic cases.
On a final note, if you're not 'very convinced' by the very products you sell, then honestly speaking, you shouldn't be selling it.
How do you expect to convince your customers if you're not convinced yourself?
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You might be not be totally right when you say that I am a bad salesman.
Before I posted in this forum, my mentor told me that it would most likely be futile. He told me that not everyone will agree with what I am going to say, and that there will always be opposition against everyone in everything, if not life would be boring.
So I posted with a mindset to share. I was prepared that some people will mock me and treat me like a joke, but I also know that there would be people that will agree with what I am sharing. It would be near to impossible to convince everyone that MLM is actually good in a few posts. Start by convincing a few, and then move on. If I can improve Venture Era's reputation even by a little, I have achieved what I had set out to do in the first place.
Top financial advisors or corporate salesman today only close around 4-5 out of 10 appointments. They fail to close a deal 50-60 percent of the time. But I do not think that they are bad salesman. It is, after all, a numbers game. We are playing a numbers game everyday. Want to jio a girl? You need her number. Want to play dota with friends? You need their numbers. See a car crashed on the road? You walk over to copy down their car plate number. Time to call an ambulance? You need to know what number to call. So call me a bad salesman, but I am really doing my best here. Maybe I am really bad, but I am really trying hard here too.
And I apologize for my long post. I was merely replying to everyone's post, and I am the only one replying, and there are so many posts, so it was long. Well then, I have decided to reply one post at a time so that it wont seem that long.
But I just have to reply to that sentence of fudgester. I believe in the bed and the air system. That's why I am selling those 2. I am still trying to learn more about the water so I can convince myself too. So you are right. I dont sell the water, neither do I expect to convince customers about it. But my company does not only have the water. -
Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
You might be not be totally right when you say that I am a bad salesman.
Before I posted in this forum, my mentor told me that it would most likely be futile. He told me that not everyone will agree with what I am going to say, and that there will always be opposition against everyone in everything, if not life would be boring.
So I posted with a mindset to share. I was prepared that some people will mock me and treat me like a joke, but I also know that there would be people that will agree with what I am sharing. It would be near to impossible to convince everyone that MLM is actually good in a few posts. Start by convincing a few, and then move on. If I can improve Venture Era's reputation even by a little, I have achieved what I had set out to do in the first place.
Top financial advisors or corporate salesman today only close around 4-5 out of 10 appointments. They fail to close a deal 50-60 percent of the time. But I do not think that they are bad salesman. It is, after all, a numbers game. We are playing a numbers game everyday. Want to jio a girl? You need her number. Want to play dota with friends? You need their numbers. See a car crashed on the road? You walk over to copy down their car plate number. Time to call an ambulance? You need to know what number to call. So call me a bad salesman, but I am really doing my best here. Maybe I am really bad, but I am really trying hard here too.
And I apologize for my long post. I was merely replying to everyone's post, and I am the only one replying, and there are so many posts, so it was long. Well then, I have decided to reply one post at a time so that it wont seem that long.It is good that you are starting to compare with financial advisors and corporate salesmen.
My point still stands: it is not your own business as so many MLMers before you have claimed in this thread. It's still the job of a saleman with commission for VE.
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You already come in with such a mindset, its already half the battle lost, nor will you achieve your aims
Having a mindset that people will agree or disagree with you is totally wrong. You are on the side of 'groupthink' not reason. None of us here comes here to agree or disagree with someone, but rather to discuss what is being laid out here.
Lastly, for salesman who dont achieve their target, its because they are like you, thinking about salesmen who dont achieve their target as a natural thing. Got a goal, aim for it, dont be wuss and look at the other side.
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I also stick to my stand. If you want to sell something, then you have to be prepared to address your customers who may well know more than you. If a customer who knows all about magnetism asks you 'So... exactly how does magnetic therapy work? Does it magnetise the blood or something?', then you had better be prepared to address him.
Ask your advisor as to how the magnetic therapy and air system works. Ask for hard scientific proof of how they work, and not just anecdotal evidence like customer testimonials.
If and when you do go to university, you will see that such anecdotal evidence will never hold in the absence of valid proof like controlled experiments and well-documented simulations. Your professor will just ask you 'So what?' and continue to bombard you because he knows better, and you haven't showed him that you know something that he doesn't.
If you want to know, both Eagle and I are engineers as well, by the way. We are both taught to always ask how things work and raise questions when something doesn't seem to square well with what we know.
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laurence82, do you know you just supported me point not long ago saying that eagle is defeatist? And now that you analyse my own point about closing 4 out of 10, I notice that I am defeatist there too. I will do my best to change that attitude, but please let me increase my closing chances first. I am currently working with a closing rate of about 10% of the appointments that I go to. Increasing that chance to say 20% would be easier than to 100% for now. So I am taking one step at a time. I ask for patience for that part.
And your point about agreeing and disagreeing is rather confusing. If you do not agree with my point, you would disagree. A non yes would be a no. Nothing else. There is a discussion in the first place because not everyone feels the same way. Otherwise, why would there be a discussion? After the first post in this thread there would be none more, for no one has anything else to say rather than "Hey I agree!". But that is not the case, is it?
Now to eagle. Your point does stand, but I feel that you might be a little inflexible. Very simply put, it is just a salesman with commission for VE. But it is definitely not the same as a salesman for, say, a retail salesman in a Giordano shop. I dare say a salesman in VE learns more than a retail salesman in a Giordano shop. What I am trying to say is that being a salesman in VE lets you learn things that might help if you wish to run a business next time. Things that many 8-5 jobs might not offer. Because a salesman in VE has to decide more things, like who to find appointments, who to recruit, how should i plan my schedule, etc.
And maybe by explaining why i posted in the first place will let you guys know why I am here. I find that the situation looked rather bleak for Venture Era when you just google it and up came results from sgforum, amongst other forums, flaming Venture Era. The flamers are not exactly wrong, but they are not exactly right either. So I wanted to let the readers know the two sides of the coin, so that they can get a clearer picture about Venture Era. That is about the real reason why I am here.
oh and fudgester, I do know how magnetic beds and air systems work. As in scientifically. That is why I believe in it a lot. For the water, it might just be me, as I think water is still water. Good water and bad water, it is still for drinking. So to me it doesnt really make a difference. Would you want me to share with you how the beds and air systems work?
And i totally agree that anecdotal evidence does not work. My research papers since secondary 3 has asked for footnotes for almost every point, and reference to sites like wikipedia was not even accepted. And since you two are engineers, and if you do not mind me sharing with you how the air system and bed works, could you hear me out and provide me with more questions? Cause maybe it's cause I only take courses up to A level, so the questions that I asked are of a certain level, and so far those questions have been answered. Maybe if you can highlight problems or doubts I can go and ask my mentor, who is a NTU engineer too, so that I can learn more and be more prepared should I get customers who are engineers too. Thank you. -
Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
laurence82, do you know you just supported me point not long ago saying that eagle is defeatist? And now that you analyse my own point about closing 4 out of 10, I notice that I am defeatist there too. I will do my best to change that attitude, but please let me increase my closing chances first. I am currently working with a closing rate of about 10% of the appointments that I go to. Increasing that chance to say 20% would be easier than to 100% for now. So I am taking one step at a time. I ask for patience for that part.
And your point about agreeing and disagreeing is rather confusing. If you do not agree with my point, you would disagree. A non yes would be a no. Nothing else. There is a discussion in the first place because not everyone feels the same way. Otherwise, why would there be a discussion? After the first post in this thread there would be none more, for no one has anything else to say rather than "Hey I agree!". But that is not the case, is it?
Now to eagle. Your point does stand, but I feel that you might be a little inflexible. Very simply put, it is just a salesman with commission for VE. But it is definitely not the same as a salesman for, say, a retail salesman in a Giordano shop. I dare say a salesman in VE learns more than a retail salesman in a Giordano shop. What I am trying to say is that being a salesman in VE lets you learn things that might help if you wish to run a business next time. Things that many 8-5 jobs might not offer. Because a salesman in VE has to decide more things, like who to find appointments, who to recruit, how should i plan my schedule, etc.
And maybe by explaining why i posted in the first place will let you guys know why I am here. I find that the situation looked rather bleak for Venture Era when you just google it and up came results from sgforum, amongst other forums, flaming Venture Era. The flamers are not exactly wrong, but they are not exactly right either. So I wanted to let the readers know the two sides of the coin, so that they can get a clearer picture about Venture Era. That is about the real reason why I am here.
oh and fudgester, I do know how magnetic beds and air systems work. As in scientifically. That is why I believe in it a lot. For the water, it might just be me, as I think water is still water. Good water and bad water, it is still for drinking. So to me it doesnt really make a difference. Would you want me to share with you how the beds and air systems work?
And i totally agree that anecdotal evidence does not work. My research papers since secondary 3 has asked for footnotes for almost every point, and reference to sites like wikipedia was not even accepted. And since you two are engineers, and if you do not mind me sharing with you how the air system and bed works, could you hear me out and provide me with more questions? Cause maybe it's cause I only take courses up to A level, so the questions that I asked are of a certain level, and so far those questions have been answered. Maybe if you can highlight problems or doubts I can go and ask my mentor, who is a NTU engineer too, so that I can learn more and be more prepared should I get customers who are engineers too. Thank you.btw.. sales people in giordano and such are called promoters... salesmen are those at the night markets, people who knock door to door.
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no, i did not support whatever you saying eagle is a defeatist
do not put words into people's mouth
and maybe you are not intellectual enough to understand that i do not mean its not inherent that someone will agree or disagree
what i mean here is that people will take stock of things, not to come to side anyone readily
your aim or view is that you expect people to agree or to disagree with you
fundamentally it means you do not come here to reason
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taken from wiki
A 2002 U.S. National Science Foundation report on public attitudes and understanding of science noted that magnet therapy is "not at all scientific."[18] A number of vendors make unsupported claims about magnet therapy by using pseudoscientific and new-age language. Such claims are unsupported by the results of scientific and clinical studies.[19] Most criticisms include:
- The typical magnet used produces insufficient magnetic field to have any effect on muscle tissue, bones, blood vessels, or organs.[1]
- Some manufacturers claim that the magnets help to circulate the blood by interacting with the iron in hemoglobin, a major component of red blood cells. There is no indication that circulatory benefits would result even if some blood component were to couple strongly to magnetic fields.
- Others claim that the magnets can restore the body's theorized "electromagnetic energy balance", but no such balance is medically recognized.
- Even in the many times stronger magnetic fields used in magnetic resonance imaging, none of the claimed effects are observed.[20]
- There are claims that the south pole of a magnet acts differently on the body than the north pole.[21]
- Many of the websites that promote the benefits of magnetic therapy belong to individuals and companies that profit from the sale of magnetic therapy products.
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Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
laurence82, do you know you just supported me point not long ago saying that eagle is defeatist? And now that you analyse my own point about closing 4 out of 10, I notice that I am defeatist there too. I will do my best to change that attitude, but please let me increase my closing chances first. I am currently working with a closing rate of about 10% of the appointments that I go to. Increasing that chance to say 20% would be easier than to 100% for now. So I am taking one step at a time. I ask for patience for that part.
And your point about agreeing and disagreeing is rather confusing. If you do not agree with my point, you would disagree. A non yes would be a no. Nothing else. There is a discussion in the first place because not everyone feels the same way. Otherwise, why would there be a discussion? After the first post in this thread there would be none more, for no one has anything else to say rather than "Hey I agree!". But that is not the case, is it?
Now to eagle. Your point does stand, but I feel that you might be a little inflexible. Very simply put, it is just a salesman with commission for VE. But it is definitely not the same as a salesman for, say, a retail salesman in a Giordano shop. I dare say a salesman in VE learns more than a retail salesman in a Giordano shop. What I am trying to say is that being a salesman in VE lets you learn things that might help if you wish to run a business next time. Things that many 8-5 jobs might not offer. Because a salesman in VE has to decide more things, like who to find appointments, who to recruit, how should i plan my schedule, etc.
And maybe by explaining why i posted in the first place will let you guys know why I am here. I find that the situation looked rather bleak for Venture Era when you just google it and up came results from sgforum, amongst other forums, flaming Venture Era. The flamers are not exactly wrong, but they are not exactly right either. So I wanted to let the readers know the two sides of the coin, so that they can get a clearer picture about Venture Era. That is about the real reason why I am here.
oh and fudgester, I do know how magnetic beds and air systems work. As in scientifically. That is why I believe in it a lot. For the water, it might just be me, as I think water is still water. Good water and bad water, it is still for drinking. So to me it doesnt really make a difference. Would you want me to share with you how the beds and air systems work?
And i totally agree that anecdotal evidence does not work. My research papers since secondary 3 has asked for footnotes for almost every point, and reference to sites like wikipedia was not even accepted. And since you two are engineers, and if you do not mind me sharing with you how the air system and bed works, could you hear me out and provide me with more questions? Cause maybe it's cause I only take courses up to A level, so the questions that I asked are of a certain level, and so far those questions have been answered. Maybe if you can highlight problems or doubts I can go and ask my mentor, who is a NTU engineer too, so that I can learn more and be more prepared should I get customers who are engineers too. Thank you.Now to eagle. Your point does stand, but I feel that you might be a little inflexible. Very simply put, it is just a salesman with commission for VE. But it is definitely not the same as a salesman for, say, a retail salesman in a Giordano shop. I dare say a salesman in VE learns more than a retail salesman in a Giordano shop. What I am trying to say is that being a salesman in VE lets you learn things that might help if you wish to run a business next time. Things that many 8-5 jobs might not offer. Because a salesman in VE has to decide more things, like who to find appointments, who to recruit, how should i plan my schedule, etc.
Again this point has been shot down in the pages before. Bringing it up again is only putting yourself on the target board.
In short, you will be a VE salesman in the same league as insurance agents and financial advisors. That was what I said in earlier pages before you came.
And no, as corebooster has already said. He learn more things about business in his 8-5 job than in VE.
And I can tell you now that even for a simple thing like giving tuition, you have to also decide your own things, find your own students, plan your schedule, do up your own advertising campaign, where to locate, etc etc. I can go on and on...
But as you see, your mind is only and deeply entrenched in what VE has told you. Everything we are telling you is disagreeing with you. Although you said you are open to opinions, you are already giving us this impression that you are not.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
no, i did not support whatever you saying eagle is a defeatist
do not put words into people's mouth
and maybe you are not intellectual enough to understand that i do not mean its not inherent that someone will agree or disagree
what i mean here is that people will take stock of things, not to come to side anyone readily
your aim or view is that you expect people to agree or to disagree with you
fundamentally it means you do not come here to reason
Realise I didn't even start on saying MLM is bad?
Just asking a simple question on who made it big from MLM... ok... other than the CEO or owner or founder
Dunno why he so defensive
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now erm SexyChin, you have sort of brought a very big issue. Indeed, like you have said, there are many professors that have done research to show that magnetic therapy has worked, but incidentally there are also an equal number that has done clinical trials to show that it has not worked. But what I know is that magnetic therapy is widespread in Japan, and is a billion dollar industry in USA, and that it has helped many people. Whether or not it really has a placebo effect or otherwise, I do not really know. We just have to leave it to the professors and their research. What has been proven thus far is that magnetic therapy has an effect, just that they do not know exactly what yet. Maybe you can try reading up Dr. William Philpot's research. He is one of the leading scientists in this magnetic therapy.
And erm I already apologized for compromising on the past 74 pages. What I ask is that you would kindly bring up the point again so that I know rather than say that it has been shot down again.
Now eagle. Firstly, corebooster only stayed for two weeks. So if he learned more things in business at his job than two weeks at VE, there might be right. But what if he compared it with 1 month at VE, 3 months at VE? That we do not know right? So that point is invalid.
Tuition. Indeed we do plan our own things when having our own tuition. But you would be lying through your teeth if you say that you would learn more about business as a tuition teacher than be a salesman at VE.
And lastly, I do not think that I am not open to opinions. Though this sentence might have already shown that I am not open. But nevertheless, you have to know that there are times when I agree with several of you. Did you really read all my posts, like the very long one? If you haven read all that I have posted, than I would appreciate if you will try to not jump to conclusions yet again.
And for laurence82, that post of yours seems totally emotional, and I will not bother to reply that for one cannot reason with an angry man. I also think that you are rather defensive. For what I also do not know. Defeatist is not totally bad. Some can say that a defeatist attitude is being realistic. It does not mean you are a loser. And your post doesnt make sense too.
And eagle, there are more than 10 people in my firm earning more than 20k a month (management team), and close to 30 people earning more than 10k a month (business group and associate managers). Then there are about 400 people in the firm. To me, 10k a month before hitting the age of 30 (the oldest guy in my firm is 34), is rather big already. -
Please do not evade the points by talking about being emotional. Its an old ruse I have seen MLMers use all the time.
1. Which points I have used said that supports that eagle is a defeatist?
2. People come here to review the points that are laid out here. Unlike MLMers, they do not engage in siding, collusion or even conspiracy theories. So your point about being accepting that people will not agree with you is a defeatist attitude.
The harsh reality of businessworld is this, you dont beg for chances, you do not think that not achieving target is a natural thing, people do not come here readily to agree or disagree or to side. And that means the non-MLMers. Its up to the MLMers to prove they are serious, professional and not to evade difficult issues.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Realise I didn't even start on saying MLM is bad?
Just asking a simple question on who made it big from MLM... ok... other than the CEO or owner or founder
Dunno why he so defensive
Frankly, having spent few years mixing with them, they would not be able to provide you an answer. The struggles they have, the significant rate of failures, the low standard of professionalism makes the industry what it is today, what we Chinese called 'guo jie lau shu'
I did hope they would raise the standards equal to any other industry in the world, but there is a persistent drive not to do so. You see his posts, its still the same as the agents I lambasted on the first page of this topic.
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I am not evading. If I wish to evade I would have already left this forum. I am just waiting for you to calm down. Look at that post of yours. It was filled with anger. When one tries to reason with an angry man normally it ends up in a fight. So I was not using any ruse as you have accused. I find that you and eagle are rather similar. You both like to jump to conclusions, dont you?
Ah there you see. Your point two is much more clearer now. I could not make head or tail of what you were saying beforehand.
And we both seem to have different reasons here. I am here to show that Venture Era is not totally as claimed in this forum, and that if you wish to join, at least come down to the orientation, look around, then gauge if this company is good or bad. One would not make it very far anywhere if he or she decides things by seeing how other people feel about those things.
And I still stand correct with my point that people only agree or disagree. Even if people sit on the fence, deep down they actually side someone, but just to avoid trouble, they say that they sit on the fence. Who will target a person that is neutral? Accepting that people will definitely disagree with me might be a defeatist attitude, but realistic at the same time. Idealism can only bring you that far. One must balance both.
I am 19. Not 27 as I think you are, inferred from your username. I do not see the harsh reality of the world yet. Hence I still bear hope that this world is not as bad as people say, and that out there exists people that will help you. I believe that not everyone is out to, in a crude way, screw you. Why do you repeatedly talk about the harshness of this world, crushing my hopes bit by bit as you do? Were you not naive once? Are you saying that ever since you joined the corporate world everyone that you have met has stabbed you one way or another? It is due to this naiveness that brought me to post at this forum today, when people tell me that it's useless as people will just shoot you down like nothing. I just gotta try before I give up.
I shall end this post, before people complain that it is long again. -
Ad hominem argument. You are more interested in character, behaviour or mood of the forumer behind the post. I am not really interested in this. I have laid out the specific points and its up to you whether you choose to answer, evade or simply state that you do not have any clue.
Your posts have bring strength to the point that VE agents lacked depth and maturity, and have not advanced these past few years, especially points you have brought up were proven to be wrong right from the start of this topic.
I am not interested, nor is the issue about people will agree, disagree or sit on fence. By coming here and expecting majority of people not to agree with you, you are only plying along the line of 'groupthink' and possessing defeatist attitude. Its only a short step away from the rest of MLMers who think the whole world is against them.
Again, this is businessworld, not some charity or NPOs. You are asking for chances, but you have not yet to prove you or VE deserve those chances. Your last line clearly shows your defeatist attitude. Again and again its about you have the thoughts of 'its them against us', 'people shooting you down'. What is the difference between this and the wussies who keep crying that the whole world are against them?
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Hey, let the guy do what he wants to do lah.
When you all keep telling him to quit MLM or that MLM is a road to nowhere, it only gives him the resolve to stick on (until he learns the painful truth himself later on in life). That's one of the techniques that MLM "managers" or "mentors" tell their charges to screw with their minds - keep telling them the rest of the people are jealous of their success, will want to bring you down, criticise you etc. And that sticking to their MLM beliefs shows strength of character. yada yada.
A lot of these young impressionable teens think they will be the next millionaire because they have been bombarded with all these "get rich if you just stick to the MLM course" messages. Just let them learn it the hard way lah.
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Originally posted by Lim kuang yong2:
now erm SexyChin, you have sort of brought a very big issue. Indeed, like you have said, there are many professors that have done research to show that magnetic therapy has worked, but incidentally there are also an equal number that has done clinical trials to show that it has not worked. But what I know is that magnetic therapy is widespread in Japan, and is a billion dollar industry in USA, and that it has helped many people. Whether or not it really has a placebo effect or otherwise, I do not really know. We just have to leave it to the professors and their research. What has been proven thus far is that magnetic therapy has an effect, just that they do not know exactly what yet. Maybe you can try reading up Dr. William Philpot's research. He is one of the leading scientists in this magnetic therapy.
And erm I already apologized for compromising on the past 74 pages. What I ask is that you would kindly bring up the point again so that I know rather than say that it has been shot down again.
Now eagle. Firstly, corebooster only stayed for two weeks. So if he learned more things in business at his job than two weeks at VE, there might be right. But what if he compared it with 1 month at VE, 3 months at VE? That we do not know right? So that point is invalid.
Tuition. Indeed we do plan our own things when having our own tuition. But you would be lying through your teeth if you say that you would learn more about business as a tuition teacher than be a salesman at VE.
And lastly, I do not think that I am not open to opinions. Though this sentence might have already shown that I am not open. But nevertheless, you have to know that there are times when I agree with several of you. Did you really read all my posts, like the very long one? If you haven read all that I have posted, than I would appreciate if you will try to not jump to conclusions yet again.
And for laurence82, that post of yours seems totally emotional, and I will not bother to reply that for one cannot reason with an angry man. I also think that you are rather defensive. For what I also do not know. Defeatist is not totally bad. Some can say that a defeatist attitude is being realistic. It does not mean you are a loser. And your post doesnt make sense too.
And eagle, there are more than 10 people in my firm earning more than 20k a month (management team), and close to 30 people earning more than 10k a month (business group and associate managers). Then there are about 400 people in the firm. To me, 10k a month before hitting the age of 30 (the oldest guy in my firm is 34), is rather big already.Now eagle. Firstly, corebooster only stayed for two weeks. So if he learned more things in business at his job than two weeks at VE, there might be right. But what if he compared it with 1 month at VE, 3 months at VE? That we do not know right? So that point is invalid.
Tuition. Indeed we do plan our own things when having our own tuition. But you would be lying through your teeth if you say that you would learn more about business as a tuition teacher than be a salesman at VE.
And lastly, I do not think that I am not open to opinions. Though this sentence might have already shown that I am not open. But nevertheless, you have to know that there are times when I agree with several of you. Did you really read all my posts, like the very long one? If you haven read all that I have posted, than I would appreciate if you will try to not jump to conclusions yet again.Self contradictory
You said corebooster stayed only for 2 weeks, so he couldn't have learned much.
Yet you are talking as if you gave tuition for a long time that you could compare??? Wow. This alone already showed you are not opened to opinions. And it shows that you are setting double standards.
I have read your posts, and at least from 50 odd pages within this thread. You still give the impression of not being opened to opinions. Like quite a few other youngsters, you are thinking you know something that many others do not know, therefore you will succeed.
And eagle, there are more than 10 people in my firm earning more than 20k a month (management team), and close to 30 people earning more than 10k a month (business group and associate managers). Then there are about 400 people in the firm. To me, 10k a month before hitting the age of 30 (the oldest guy in my firm is 34), is rather big already.
Yes this can be considered as an answer to my original question. Can't believe you took a few long posts and one big round around the bush just to answer a simple question.
Then again, I have never condemned MLM model throughout this thread. So your point of me being defeatist doesn't hold at all. Rather, it was you who wasn't opened to opinions.
My next question is, how do you know they earn more than 10k a month? From what they say in their orientation speech? Or did you see their bank accounts and cheques?
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Originally posted by charlize:
Hey, let the guy do what he wants to do lah.
When you all keep telling him to quit MLM or that MLM is a road to nowhere, it only gives him the resolve to stick on (until he learns the painful truth himself later on in life). That's one of the techniques that MLM "managers" or "mentors" tell their charges to screw with their minds - keep telling them the rest of the people are jealous of their success, will want to bring you down, criticise you etc. And that sticking to their MLM beliefs shows strength of character. yada yada.
A lot of these young impressionable teens think they will be the next millionaire because they have been bombarded with all these "get rich if you just stick to the MLM course" messages. Just let them learn it the hard way lah.
Why not? The longer he stick in, the more painful it is.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
Why not? The longer he stick in, the more painful it is.
He is after all just 18.
Remember when you were 18? You had dreams of making your first million when you reached 21?
Dreaming is ok.
Just don't let the dream turn into a nightmare.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Hey, let the guy do what he wants to do lah.
When you all keep telling him to quit MLM or that MLM is a road to nowhere, it only gives him the resolve to stick on (until he learns the painful truth himself later on in life). That's one of the techniques that MLM "managers" or "mentors" tell their charges to screw with their minds - keep telling them the rest of the people are jealous of their success, will want to bring you down, criticise you etc. And that sticking to their MLM beliefs shows strength of character. yada yada.
A lot of these young impressionable teens think they will be the next millionaire because they have been bombarded with all these "get rich if you just stick to the MLM course" messages. Just let them learn it the hard way lah.
MLM might be able to earn him some bucks, that I won't deny.
But to keep saying that it is your own business, that you will learn the trades of business in MLM and not anywhere else, etc, etc is pure bs.
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Originally posted by charlize:
He is after all just 18.
Remember when you were 18? You had dreams of making your first million when you reached 21?
Dreaming is ok.
Just don't let the dream turn into a nightmare.
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Originally posted by charlize:
He is after all just 18.
Remember when you were 18? You had dreams of making your first million when you reached 21?
Dreaming is ok.
Just don't let the dream turn into a nightmare.
I only started thinking about finance near graduation :(
Then again, I dun like to spend money on unnecessary things; it's part of my nature... So still ok....
Now I don't dream of first million; I'm planning and putting in place actions. Not really to reach a million, but to achieve sufficient income from stock dividends and probably property rental revenue in the future, such that I can choose not to work if I wanted to.
And I also think these youngsters nowadays think school certs are useless. Then they take examples of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett (without truly understanding why pple like Bill Gates left sch) to support their points.
Everyone dreams of being the next Bill Gates, setting up the next Facebook, being the next Adam Khoo, etc...