Another Scam Project By Ex-NOP Boss, James Phang! Beware!
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dont divert from issueOriginally posted by jonzibonzi:They press a withdrawal button in the account to collect cheques and from this "pay cheques" they report their income tax,
the big earners won't be bothered with small fry here lah, their 1 month income u can only make in like 3-4 years? maybe 10 for those slackers
if they are 'big earners', tax income statement leh? or any reliable documents authenticated by authorities also can
if you are saying people flame them for being so young and you want people to prove sunshine empire will not give rebate, then why on earth you flame people for being small fries and divert from the issue of proof of income?
look, its been two three pages, and yet you still cant produce?
sure, if sunshine empire will sure give rebates...but issit enough to give proof that there are big earners or all only collect small rebates, and prove what mhcampboy says when he says there are so many slaves under one big earners?
either way, you are pwning yourself
if the situation in sunshine empire isnt bad, you are making it worse
that is same as misrepresenting since you come from the company -
young man, before you talk about filing for Tax, have you even seen how a TAX Reclaration form looks like?Originally posted by jonzibonzi:They press a withdrawal button in the account to collect cheques and from this "pay cheques" they report their income tax,
the big earners won't be bothered with small fry here lah, their 1 month income u can only make in like 3-4 years? maybe 10 for those slackers
And in everything there will definately be a problem..
My windows hanged yesterday, shall i start a forum to condamn microsoft?
Please post the big pointers, not small pointers like "the manager look young and underage"
Please explain why this emcom project will fail, and why the company will stop giving the sunshine rebate of 12kus
Do you want me to scan a copy for you to see?
go ask your parents to show you, the company should keep a whole year's record of how much they earn than they deduct it from there. It's not like as you said, taking out 1 month's pay cheque than go declare, you think the govt is so free to entertain you 12 times per year?
if you have work in normal jobs, they should have given you the tax declaration letter too, but from what you type so far, you don't seem to know how it looks like, thus you're a greenhorn in the working society.
The company should print this letter out for each and every single individual person in the company, since I didn't receive any, don't try to smoke your way through.
Yes they may be earning big fat pay-cheaques, that's because no one is faster than a money game in terms of earning.
Look: you pay money, do you get products instantly?
No you don't, what's next they ask you to refer more friends into the scheme.
Products they say you can go online settle yourself.
Hey is there something weird don't you think.
You paid for it, and you go back empty handed. Lol.
Recruitment with no products involved = Pyramid but they are able to cover it up with the online products, haha, they do learn their lessons, but rather they did self reflection and thought the evil unethical way rather. -
for those people who are culeless on how to differentiate a MLM VS PYRAMID
kindly refer to the following thread which I've posted in the past.
I hope this will be of help especially to the rookies/newbies
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=218369&page=2
For people who wants to know the history of past failures refer to the following.
Inside this thread, i've also scan a picture of the past investment project which was a failure thus the reason that holds me strong to believing they are only for MONEY, and not for the benefits of the agents back than, neither are they giving any assurance to the distributors.
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=227768&page=0
I should be Richer than anyone of you partners if I still have this LPS, but the president (now the international president) back than FORCED US TO CONVERT OR FACED CANCELATION OF ACCOUNT!!
Invest at your own RISK!! -
Hey guys,
A friend of mine jus joined Sunshine Empire recently, and did ask me to go down listen, which i did.
As i hv experienced before attending quite a few mlm talks, so i know how they going to give presentation.
Of cos i didnt join sunshine empire but in order to help my friend whom jus joined and dunno much abt it, i promised to go down to the company and listen to their upline giving presentation to me.
Their presentation is all the same with other mlm company like show me proof of bank statement, chq, bmw etc.....which of cos i know is true becos is the money earn from downline, if not where got so much money into their pocket.
Although they did said that you put in a certain amount, then will get back an average amount of money every month till cap at a limit of profit which is very attracting, but isnt it like u put in the money and take back your own money with extra profit which dunno when you will ever recoup back your own capital, not even said your profit as they jus said within 8mths to 1yr but in the contract didnt state 8mths to 1yr, only the total amount you will get for a certain money you put in. Which means no garantee that your money may take back 8mths to 1yr, might more than a yr or even longer than that.
I did asked them how their company earn money since the company need to give merchant aka member every mths a certain amount of money plus profit. They told me their earning is from the advertisement emcom, emall, lumimi etc put the ads onto sunshine website and earn it by ppl click on the website, i find it that even is true also cannot earn so much. Moreover that amount of money to pay out to merchant aka member is alot which i dun think is by the advertisement, so i roughly conclude that is from merchant aka member own money and also their downline money whom they recruit.
After hearing the presentation, somehow what i felt was, they are using merchant aka member money to invest the wireless project. Which means even the project failed, is none of the company business as they are not using their company money at all. If lucky for them that the wireless project succeed, the company will still earn from the interest and gives part of the profit to their investors. Which is a win-win solutions for the company.
As i only printed out the ROC of sunshine empire and went thru it, nothing much to conclude other than
1) registration date is 18/07/2003 (Nuitrend International), then changed name to Sunsine Empire on 08/01/2007, which prompt me to doubts which i dun think can find out.
2) amount of share which is 150,000 which i think if company collasp, only lost 150,000 but already earn alot from merchant aka member.
3) 2 directors and a secretary whom the directors is not yet reached 30yrs old and living in HDB flat. (Cannot conclude that young and staying HDB flat cant be director)
Of cos abv paragraph cannot deem them to have something evil to hide unless got proof.
Second thing.
Forgot to ask them for proof of documents to show me their sister company emcom will give a certain percentage of money to sunshine empire. But dunno they will show or not.
Third thing.
Forgot to ask for documents to proof the process of wireless projects and percentage of completion which i think they will not show to me.
Fourth thing.
Forgot to ask for documents of funding the company has since they claim have.
Fifth thing.
Is it really they use merchant aka member money to invest in the wireless project in Taiwan?
I did thought of attending their coming faq seminar this sat to ask them all sort of questions i can think of and their answering must show with proof of documents. But afraid go there being bombard till jialat jialat. -
I'll go to the company with you if you're worried that they pressure you into buying.Originally posted by knightskid:Hey guys,
A friend of mine jus joined Sunshine Empire recently, and did ask me to go down listen, which i did.
As i hv experienced before attending quite a few mlm talks, so i know how they going to give presentation.
Of cos i didnt join sunshine empire but in order to help my friend whom jus joined and dunno much abt it, i promised to go down to the company and listen to their upline giving presentation to me.
Their presentation is all the same with other mlm company like show me proof of bank statement, chq, bmw etc.....which of cos i know is true becos is the money earn from downline, if not where got so much money into their pocket.
Although they did said that you put in a certain amount, then will get back an average amount of money every month till cap at a limit of profit which is very attracting, but isnt it like u put in the money and take back your own money with extra profit which dunno when you will ever recoup back your own capital, not even said your profit as they jus said within 8mths to 1yr but in the contract didnt state 8mths to 1yr, only the total amount you will get for a certain money you put in. Which means no garantee that your money may take back 8mths to 1yr, might more than a yr or even longer than that.
I did asked them how their company earn money since the company need to give merchant aka member every mths a certain amount of money plus profit. They told me their earning is from the advertisement emcom, emall, lumimi etc put the ads onto sunshine website and earn it by ppl click on the website, i find it that even is true also cannot earn so much. Moreover that amount of money to pay out to merchant aka member is alot which i dun think is by the advertisement, so i roughly conclude that is from merchant aka member own money and also their downline money whom they recruit.
After hearing the presentation, somehow what i felt was, they are using merchant aka member money to invest the wireless project. Which means even the project failed, is none of the company business as they are not using their company money at all. If lucky for them that the wireless project succeed, the company will still earn from the interest and gives part of the profit to their investors. Which is a win-win solutions for the company.
As i only printed out the ROC of sunshine empire and went thru it, nothing much to conclude other than
1) registration date is 18/07/2003 (Nuitrend International), then changed name to Sunsine Empire on 08/01/2007, which prompt me to doubts which i dun think can find out.
2) amount of share which is 150,000 which i think if company collasp, only lost 150,000 but already earn alot from merchant aka member.
3) 2 directors and a secretary whom the directors is not yet reached 30yrs old and living in HDB flat. (Cannot conclude that young and staying HDB flat cant be director)
Of cos abv paragraph cannot deem them to have something evil to hide unless got proof.
Second thing.
Forgot to ask them for proof of documents to show me their sister company emcom will give a certain percentage of money to sunshine empire. But dunno they will show or not.
Third thing.
Forgot to ask for documents to proof the process of wireless projects and percentage of completion which i think they will not show to me.
Fourth thing.
Forgot to ask for documents of funding the company has since they claim have.
Fifth thing.
Is it really they use merchant aka member money to invest in the wireless project in Taiwan?
I did thought of attending their coming faq seminar this sat to ask them all sort of questions i can think of and their answering must show with proof of documents. But afraid go there being bombard till jialat jialat.
I have printed the whole website from Ministry of Trade and Industry out.
If you want to have your questions answered, PM me, I'll go to the company with you together, no problem. -
the_fallen and knightskid,
If you guys want the contact of David Tan (supposedly the right hand man of Jackie), can PM me for it. That way, easier to get the proper information. Almost as close as the real thing and not distorted by so many levels of independent distributors.
knightskid, do take note. If they are not agents, technically their words do not equate to the words of the company. the_fallen can explain this in greater detail to you if you 2 do meet. -
to add on a bit more, the law of agency applies in this case
most of the time, when you sign up for a MLM scheme, the form usually will state something like 'an independent distributor is not an employee, representative nor an agent of the company'
meaning distributors words are not legally binding, if they say something wrong, you cannot hold the company responsible
which give rises to many cases of misrepresentations and inconsistent remarks
thats why i dont always suggest distributors, especially errant ones, to speak up especially if they are not backed up by evidences
another issue to look at is conflict of interest
an analogy i found in an investment book is that of a stock analyst who gave positive reports about certain companies through the media, and its later found out that he invested in those shares as well
a distributor already has an interest in whatever scheme he is promoting, and that should be taken into account whenever you invest into any scheme, same when we see distributors speaking through publicly available medium such as sgforums, we should take note too -
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laurence82, i believe you are still schooling - probably a business undergrad. You must know that things are not as simple as what the books suggest. Reality is different from the case studies that you discussed in tutorials and lectures. There are many procedures involved in the pursuit of this case. Sunshine empire is definitely dubious. However, if there's no victims yet (since the program is still paying), i dun think the authority will pursue the case. A scam is only a scam when the money's gone.
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i believe you are dead wrong and stop being philosophical like the nti peeps, coz being philosophical and general is worse than academiiaOriginally posted by kokov:laurence82, i believe you are still schooling - probably a business undergrad. You must know that things are not as simple as what the books suggest. Reality is different from the case studies that you discussed in tutorials and lectures. There are many procedures involved in the pursuit of this case. Sunshine empire is definitely dubious. However, if there's no victims yet (since the program is still paying), i dun think the authority will pursue the case. A scam is only a scam when the money's gone.
like many of us highlighted here, is the program worth its returns, its guarantee, and its not a two digit percentage returns, but three, which is unbelievable for anyone who gone thru the capital market before
are these claims theoretical or reality, or just pure bullshit?
besides, if anything is theoretical, pray do tell us the 'procedures involved in the pursuit of this case' and see whether these people who has helped previous agents concur with you? -
hmm,Originally posted by kokov:laurence82, i believe you are still schooling - probably a business undergrad. You must know that things are not as simple as what the books suggest. Reality is different from the case studies that you discussed in tutorials and lectures. There are many procedures involved in the pursuit of this case. Sunshine empire is definitely dubious. However, if there's no victims yet (since the program is still paying), i dun think the authority will pursue the case. A scam is only a scam when the money's gone.
interesting reply..
so there's no much reply or to do clarificiation anymore from this company or are the newbies in this company lost of words?
with no topics to turn to, than go into personal attacks?
btw, if you find it dubious, and is only waiting for things to happen, than react, than sorry, your money will be lost to such schemes by the time they can pay, and you will suffer a lost in time to come.
i suggest that if that's the case, your savings are better of in banks as FDs -
the_fallen, personal attacks?
hmm..that's an interesting observation.
I'm not a cheerleader for the program definitely as I've never say anything positive about the company.
What I was doing was simply expressing my views about what pple had posted, just like what everyone does on forums.
laurence82, you sound agitated too. Why? Can't take the comments? Ya, perhaps, you just need time to gain more life experience before you understand the reality of life.
[/quote] -
Originally posted by kokov:
the_fallen, personal attacks?
hmm..that's an interesting observation.
I'm not a cheerleader for the program definitely as I've never say anything positive about the company.
What I was doing was simply expressing my views about what pple had posted, just like what everyone does on forums.
laurence82, you sound agitated too. Why? Can't take the comments? Ya, perhaps, you just need time to gain more life experience before you understand the reality of life.
maybe you haven't notice..
but if you look around your company, those who go there for 1st appt, if they still not really keen, then the bridge and advisors will turn to target the client and tee-down him/her & tee-up the company and the project already,
wrong procedure nevertheless, perhaps it's the culture set by your current training 'leaders' in the company.
most people will sign due to greed, but only those people who knows which is real and fake will think again and ask more. that's when all those unprofessional behaviours such as force/hard selling is being shown to the clients when they show the slightest No.
what i mean about your comment is rather a personal attack rather than a causual comment, perhaps you might want to reconsider following their training, as their training will in-directly make you offend people without you knowing.
Disclaimer:
Above remarks are just my personal comments and feedbacks when I go back get updates. -
i am not agitated, but fallen is correctOriginally posted by kokov:the_fallen, personal attacks?
hmm..that's an interesting observation.
I'm not a cheerleader for the program definitely as I've never say anything positive about the company.
What I was doing was simply expressing my views about what pple had posted, just like what everyone does on forums.
laurence82, you sound agitated too. Why? Can't take the comments? Ya, perhaps, you just need time to gain more life experience before you understand the reality of life.
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why cant you guys see the point and stop bringing irrelevant issues like the emotion of the other chaps? isnt this already too personal, if not personal attacks?
does it matter?
so, i am waiting for ur 'real life opinions', like what are the procedures for such police reports and which part of my posts so far has been 'theoretical'?
already i lambasted people for general and philosophical remarks which do not add to the value of the discussions -
my "real life opinions"? well, i think you and fallen is the same person with 2 different accounts. no matter whether i'm right or not, this is only my sheer real life opinion.
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lol...Originally posted by kokov:my "real life opinions"? well, i think you and fallen is the same person with 2 different accounts. no matter whether i'm right or not, this is only my sheer real life opinion.
before that, months back there it was again, another person said i and another guy is the same person..
so same old tactic like those previous guys isn't it?
can't talk on par with us, than start to bad-mouth..
(That's one of the reasons why most of the advance MLM people choose to only read and not reply, as they-rookies will not understand also)
[Not saying that you wun understand, but to understand where we are coming from and to know the real meaning of what we are trying to say, you have to go through some hardships first, because you can speak like one.
That's why most people who succeed, choose not to mention about it. coz it's well, too lengthy i would say.
sigh..if you want to get rich, than first understand the process to getting rich and the hardships a real businessman/entrepreneur needs to go through first.
It's usually all the Rookies in each different mlm companies that comes into the thread to Tee-Up their company.
If you want to succeed, well, listen and learn and than apply.
You (if you're in any mlm company)
You already broke the basic rules of mlm - this is just for your information.
Not by trying to come forum to sell or share testimonials or advertising for their respectively companies.
lol..it's really quite funny reading some rookies typing at times..
haha -
few mths ago i was told me and edkieu were clones, or from amway
you were requested to prove many of your points, including what are the procedures for such police reports, which part of my posts are theoretical and classroom based and so on
if you cant, you cant, and i really hate it when people divert from issues and go into who and who are clones, they angry or not, personal attacks -
AIyo!,
Just show proof that its a scam, otherwise continue quoting people here and there,
NPNT
Where's your proof its a scam? just because they wanna pay more money back to the partners?
Where's your logic... -
so, cant prove income, so therefore this?
as usual -
I can show u cheques that the company have given me, anyway even if they can prove the income to you, you are just a kid who will keep finding excuses,
NPNT
Prove that they are not earning lah...
Prove its a Scam
Go down and confront management(instead of hiding behind the moniter)
I did go down to the management and make a big hoo ha over my refund, but i was convinced with the documents they showed me...
Nevermind.. Think you should stay at home and hug your keyboard to sleep..
Oh ya, and try to dismiss my message again.. haha
Give valid points over why this project will fail, or just continue with your fellow forumers typing about pcc and "i can't screw my virgin gf" stuff.. LOL! -
Thank you for trying to divert and resort to personal flaming
Issue still stand
After few pages, not even a decent attempt at proving, and instead focus on why we wouldnt believe
Like we said, an income return statement or something suffice, for anyone who claim to earn that much of money, should be reporting to ACRA
If you couldnt prove, and not even trying to dispute why an income tax statement or report would suffice, then please stop wasting time diverting into why we wouldnt believe
The benchmark is already set
If you guys are evading taxes, i believe everyone else would understand as well
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I'm sorry to tell you that I was under Jackie Hoo when I was in NTI. Nothing bad about the management and stuff.Originally posted by jonzibonzi:I can show u cheques that the company have given me, anyway even if they can prove the income to you, you are just a kid who will keep finding excuses,
NPNT
Prove that they are not earning lah...
Prove its a Scam
Go down and confront management(instead of hiding behind the moniter)
I did go down to the management and make a big hoo ha over my refund, but i was convinced with the documents they showed me...
Nevermind.. Think you should stay at home and hug your keyboard to sleep..
Oh ya, and try to dismiss my message again.. haha
Give valid points over why this project will fail, or just continue with your fellow forumers typing about pcc and "i can't screw my virgin gf" stuff.. LOL!
But you shouldn't say you can show cheques of the company payout because having a significant amount in my bank. I can also give you cheques with big numbers to it, but whether is it creditable? Or it is just a transfer of credits here and there and thus accumulated a high payout for u which actually = your own money.
Didn't wanna post actually till see-ing your last sentence. MLM is actually a very good form of sales through the word of mouth until some people ruin the images.
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And the thing that was offered six mths ago was investment in wireless technology in Taiwan
Then some chaps came in and claim what was said six mths ago was wrong, after somebody discovered that it was not the Emcom Technology in Taiwan, but rather some other company with similar name registered under Sunshine Empire and it was some email scheme
and they claimed those who said the stuff six mths ago were rogue agents, and no SE chaps came and dispute that
you can read about it few pages earlier
Lightinwaltz raised damn good points about the creditable points
If the product or scheme in hand is unclear, and many people put their money in, isnt it clear that money was rolled around and everyone got their money simply because everyone else put their money in it, rather than income earnings from sales of a product or gain from investment scheme elsewhere?
in this case you get steady income in the short term, but where the fark is proof that those people earn USD 5k mthly from this scheme alone?
and when we note that such income makes the person taxable, and accountable to ACRA, frigging chap keep siaming this issue, havent prove already talk about why we wouldnt believe
because what? either you guys never earn that kind of money, or you havent been paying taxes
you cant be publishing website with scores of numbers and expect people just to swallow it all in...when an authenticated document from government would more than suffice -
I initlally can't even be bothered to reply to your post already, and have given up on helping you.Originally posted by jonzibonzi:I can show u cheques that the company have given me, anyway even if they can prove the income to you, you are just a kid who will keep finding excuses,
NPNT
Prove that they are not earning lah...
Prove its a Scam
Go down and confront management(instead of hiding behind the moniter)
I did go down to the management and make a big hoo ha over my refund, but i was convinced with the documents they showed me...
Nevermind.. Think you should stay at home and hug your keyboard to sleep..
Oh ya, and try to dismiss my message again.. haha
Give valid points over why this project will fail, or just continue with your fellow forumers typing about pcc and "i can't screw my virgin gf" stuff.. LOL!
Until I read the red highlighted words.
Thanks to people trained in such unprofessional networks in such companies that made such a good system look so bad and pollute the whole singapore to be skeptical of MLM.
I really look forward to more complaints which will bring the downfall of your company down much faster. Well, now carry on, carry on with your lack of unprofessionalism and give other people more chance to complain you or your network.
Deal or No Deal?
For the good of all other people and your potential future people and you will recruit.
I specially edited the newspaper article to show you that the govt is doing something to remove the Money GAME companies.
Just that they are still observing and gathering more complaints only.
Do you want to sit and wait for company to shut down than u believe?
For those who wants to seek help and advice, you can look for me.
Disclaimer: I'm not here to recruit. I'm here just to help people to clear their doubts only. I only help those people who are keen and sincere to be helped and not being defendsive and closed up.
If you want FULL ARTICLE, meet me, and I'll show you the BLACK AND WHITE supported by NEWSPAPERS ARTICLES!!
Remember:
You uplines all sign on the agreement argeeing that the company will not be held responsible for their promise or anything.
Even the management team all sign on it.
Whereas I at least still can hold the company responsible for their words, cause I didn't sign on the agreement.
So do you have someone who is still considered an agent of the company?
No you don't.
Lol
Enjoy the article.
Note:
If you noticed one of the paragraphs in the article, it mention that they do not have a product to sell and make profit from recruiting bogus membership fee
Ask yourself:
1-Do you get your products Immediately when you pay money?
2-What's the highest you can get for GP without any recruitment. SDG$800.
3-What happens if you recruit? Can earn more than 4-5digit even?
4-Doesn't it means that you are earning from recruiting members?
Are you really in a Network Marketing Company or Are you in a Money Game/Pyramid Company?
Pramid Company is just because of people like you who are selfish who cares only about Profits and don't care for your friends which makes it pramid!! -
Originally posted by the_fallen:
Now, I'm really baffled..My company? Did i say i'm from sunshine empire?
maybe you haven't notice..
but if you look around your company, those who go there for 1st appt, if they still not really keen, then the bridge and advisors will turn to target the client and tee-down him/her & tee-up the company and the project already,